I stopped the military recruiters today at my son's High School

Last year I spoke with the HS principal when my son told me that they were REQUIRING students to fill out a waiver/personal information form to participate in the Rock Climbing Wall that the Army had brought in for Career Day. The principal said he was unaware of the practice and that he would talk to the military about it. When I spoke to the principal to follow up, he stated that the military agreed not to require the form to be signed. I asked if he got that promise in writing and unfortunately he said "no".

I just happened to read the online school bulletin for the first time last night and found out that the military would be back with their Rock Climbing Wall for "Red Ribbon Week"/anti-drug Event today.

Of course like a good parent I drove to campus at lunch time and lo and behold, the Army was there with their table set up with free pens and a form titled "US ARMY LEADS CARD WITH WAIVER AND RELEASE FORM". When the next child got in line and started to fill out the form I said: "You do NOT have to fill out the form or give your personal information to climb on the rock wall". The recruiter stared at me and then asked me to leave. I informed the Sergeant that I had spoken with the principal last year and that they were not supposed to be collecting private information, nor were they supposed to be asking MINORS to sign a waiver.

We went back and forth for a while, as I continued to tell kids not to fill out the form. The recruiter threatened to call for help and I said go ahead, I want the principal to come.

After about 5-10 minutes, the person that brought the Military (Intervention Specialist at the school) came over and sided with the army and claimed that they needed the info in case a child was injured. I kept telling kids not to sign, but that if the military wanted to have kids just write down their names I would be okay with that, just not their phone number, street address and email. She kept asking me to leave, but I refused and said I would gladly discuss it with the principal if she went and got him. Apparently, she did not have a little walkie-talkie that the Assistant Principals and other enforcers carry.

Finally an Assistant Principal came over and after I explained the situation she collected the sheets that kids had already filled out and told them to put away the stack of blank waivers!!! Perseverance pays off!!!

The principal never came out as he was in a meeting, but I will have a meeting with him tomorrow. I also will be emailing this to our local papers.

A parent's work is never done.....

:patriot:

Scary stuff!

Not just to keep them out of the Army, but because those bastards are relentless once they get a name...

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

All it took was for me to tell one recruiter that I was gay and that was it. I didn't get another call.

:applause:

:yourock:

:applause:

Worse than Vietnam, and I am of "that age." I bow to you with deep respect. A parent's work should never include this.

eom

They know that.

Would someone please recommend on my behalf?

You are the BOMB!!!

YOU GO!!!

Chase them off!!

Make them go by the rules!!

Kick them off campus!!!

:thumbsup: ..... :thumbsup:









http://www.HomeFromIraqNow.org

They are employing too many dirty tricks in their head hunting efforts. You may well have saved some of those kids' lives down the road.

Wonderful post. Thank you. Recommended.

Keep on facing them down. :applause:

Most deserving of a Mother of the Year Award!

Thanks for your work!

"Of course like a good parent I drove to campus at lunch time "

I don't mean to be a jerk, but what does driving to the school at lunch time have to do with being a good parent? If I was in high school I don't think I would want my parents stopping by my school at lunch. Also if I was a teacher or administrator I might be a little concerned about parents walking around the school at their leisure. I guess I am just a little confused by the whole situation. On one hand I understand not wanting the kids to be giving out their personal info to army recruiters, on the other hand it seems kind of strange that a parent would be walking around a high school at lunch time picking fights with the army recruiters. Don't get me wrong, I am totally opposed to the law requiring schools to allow army recruiters access to student info or forfeit No CHild Federal money. I think it's good that you are concerned about that, it's rest of the story I don't really get.

But I'll the OP answer for themselves. I don't see anything wrong with what this parent did.

I get the picture in my mind of an overprotective parent interfering with school functions, like when parents argue with teachers about a child's grade on a paper or a detention the parent doesn't feel is justified. But like I said I am just confused I guess. Honestly.

I thought the OP explained themselves very well.

are no longer allowed to be on school property, I might actually consider homeschooling. They are our children, whether in the 'care' of teachers or not. Parents at most schools simply have to sign in at the office, stating they are in the building, and at our schools, we receive an ID tag that identifies us as a legally allowed adult on campus. I understand your point of view, but parents involved in school functions seem to make the school better, not worse.

Just my pov. :)

I was just not really comprehending the "like a good parent I went to the campus.. etc.." It sounded to me like this was something she did on a regular basis. I understand now that she went to check the recruiters to see if they were still requiring the waiver form after the principal had assured her the military would not require it. I get it now.

I had a few friends growing up that had parents so engrossed with their lives that the kids never really gained any independence or social skills, I was linking in my mind that comment about going to school at lunch time with images of these overprotective parents interfering with school teachers etc.. But that isn't really the case here. Unless of course she goes there every day for one cause or another. I am up to speed now, and I applaud the concern and the result... Move along people, nothing to see here.

I would have been mortified if my parents showed up regularly at lunch time. :)

Moving along...

or an overprotectice mother trying to keep her kids brains safely inside their skull
or an overprotectice mother trying to keep her kids arms safely attached to their body
or an overprotectice mother trying to keep her kids out of the reach of person with a dead soul and heart

and you know what pisses me off the MOST about the whole deal? SHE DID IT WITH WORDS!!! What a fuckin' wimp.

In this case the principal did NOT follow through on what the military was doing on campus which falls under his responsibility.

As a parent it is my job to protect my son from UNSCRUPULOUS persons. It is one thing if the military has a recruiting office on campus, it is another if they are requiring personal information and a student's signature (invalid since they are MINORS) to participate in an activity.

Since the activity took place at lunch time that is when I drove the 10 miles into town to observe and take the action I thought necessary to stop the VULTURES in their tracks.


The military is desparate for cannon fodder, but their methods of obtaining information are underhanded and need to be monitored and STOPPED!

Or were the recruiters simply taking personal information? Personal information from minors is completely useless. Unless of course they are allowed to save the information until the child becomes a legal age to recruit. I ask this because if the children were climbing a rock wall, then what is wrong with signing a waiver? Why were they even collecting personal info if the children were minors? Me STiLL COnfuSZEeD?

LEADS CARD is what recruiters use to call prospective recruits. They were NOT asking ages, nor were they turning away students under 18.

The "Waiver and Release Form from the Army states:

In consideration of being allowed in the US Army Special Event (the "Event"), Participant acknowledges and fully understands that Participant will be engaging in activities that involve risk of injury due not only to my actions but also the actions, inaction, or negligence of others, the rules of play, or the condition of the premises or of any equipment used. I, Participant, release, waive, and discharge any and all claims of damages for death, personal injury, or property damage which I or my heirs may have, or which may hereafter acquire, as a result of my participation in the Event's interactive activities or otherwise, and which may be asserted by me or on my or my heirs' behalf against the US Army, its officers, directors, and employees, and if applicable, owners and lessees of premises and/or equipment used to conduct the Event. This release covers the negligent use, maintenance, construction or design of all interactive activities presented by the United States Army.

Participant grants full permission to any and all of the foregoing organizations, with no obligation to compensate the undersigned, to use any photographs, videotapes, motion pictures, recordings, or other record of this Event where permitted by law.

Participant represents and warrants that Participant is between sixteen (16) and (34) years of age and that if Participant is sixteen (16) or seventeen (17) years of age, the parent or authorized guardian of Participant MUST read and execute this Waiver and Release Form and the person executing on behalf of such Particpant hereby represents and warrants that he or she is the parent or authorized guardian of Participant.

By execution below, the undersigned hereby acknowledges that (i) each of them has read the above and understands that each has given up substantial rights by signing this document, and (ii) each is executing this document voluntarily.

"

My take was that the OP went to the school during her scheduled (work) lunch break to address the issue, and was able to do so -- YEAH FOR HER.

RIGHT?

She read about the army having an events online
So like a good parents who do not want their kid getting send to Iraq she go pay a visit to make sure they dont do sneaky things.

Guess what caught red handed.

Man you sure can extract a single line and paint a whole new picture.
Woah woah woah.

By the way me not American me far away in Malaysia

Me dont even got star next to name

But but me dont understand why you want to try smear poster.

:spank:

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Thanks for being persistent

I'm proud of you.

:bounce:

by a minor. It is good for gleaning personal info. Maybe all the kids could sign as "Casey Sheehan".

at the next school board ...or PTA meeting.

or better yet , mass mailing to every parent.

Minors should be strongly discouraged from signing ANY document without prior parental conference.

They have no business trying to indoctrinate CHILDREN into military service. Whether or not those kids want to join the military when they turn 18 is between them and their parents.

can make...that is what makes a democracy work...:)

I had discussed what I would do with my son and he was in favor of what I was doing. He also attened the Candlelight Vigil with me last night and has been going to protests since the drumbeat for war started.

He also wondered why the "Intervention Specialist" (I guess they help troubled kids) would want to send kids to a place where they might take up habits like drugs and drinking to deal with the horrors of what they were required to do and see.

Just wanted to share this tidbit with everyone here:

I was browsing the net about six weeks ago, and came across a message board (can't remember the site) where a high school senior had left a message.
She talked about how military recruiters had gotten her name and phone number, and kept calling to try to talk her into joining up as soon as she turned eighteen.
I'm paraphrasing from memory now, but the story went like this ...

"They started making it a point to call every night at dinner time, which is when my father comes home from work. I can only hear his side of the conversation of course, but every night I hear him say, totally straight-faced and serious, 'No, my daugther is not interested in signing up for the army. But I DO know two girls who would be interested; their names are Jenna and Barbara Bush. No, really, I can't believe they're not on your list -- you should call them. I understand that both of their parents are very pro-war and pro-military, so you can count on them to support the girls' decision to sign up."

Needless to say, after a few nights of this conversation being repeated, they stopped calling.

Just a tip for those of you out there who might get these kinds of calls -- imagine if they started hearing that from EVERYONE they called!!!!! :headbang:

And I salute that dad (in your story)!

:patriot:

The gist of the message from this girl is that her father played it completely straight -- acted astounded that they didn't have Barb & Jen on their 'call list'. At the time I first read it, I thought how great it would be if EVERYONE started using this tactic!!!

My sister used to get endless calls last year for her two sons. She had to resort to calling the top dog to get them to stop. They would use tactics like calling her kids by "informal", shortened versions of their first names, which were never used by family or friends.

They were also NOT identifying themselves...

you're back. you missed an exciting day yesterday. i figured you were probably working.

That they are plying kids is a little despicable.

I'll tell my kids that military service is a good thing, and if they decide it's right for them, I will support them 110%.

But if some recruiter calls more than once after my kid says 'no', I'll invite him by for a cup of tea and a knuckle sandwich.

Good for you fed-up.

:applause:

"And if they decide it's right for them, I will support them 100%"

Please tell me what possible real-time, real-world facts your children could possibly rely on to "decide it's right for them."
You ARE aware of the casualty/killed numbers out of Iraq and Afghanistan, are you not? For every one US soldier killed, there are 10 suffering egregious, maiming, crippling wounds. And for every one physically wounded, there are 20 suffering psychological damage. You aren't counting on getting them into the Texas Air National Guard or some other guaranteed, out of harm's way posting are you? Because the recruiters are of course promising that - that's what they promised the bag boy at my local supermarket - only HE was smart enough to figure out that was a bogus promise.

You know, a very important part of being a parent is protecting our kids from their own decisions, when such decisions are life
threatening. I wouldn't let my 15 year old sit on a beach during a lightening/thunder storm. And I used my economic veto power to stop my 19 year old (still living at home) from buying a motorcycle. (As my insurance adjustor colleagues say, "Buy your kid a motorcycle for their last birthday.")

So I repeat, what on earth would influence your child to want to join the military in the current era.

When they become adults, they are to make adult decisions.

Military service is a very good way to become personally responsible.
Ask any DU vet.

They have a few years to go before they will be able to make those kind of decisions. In the meanwhile, I give them facts... all of the facts they can use and all those that they ask for. This is so that when they become adults, they will be able to make sound, personal decisions.

I will not brainwash my children one way or the other. I will give them a clear understanding of the difference between my personal views and that of simple empirical fact.

If they perceive their leaders to be inept, I should hope I have trained them in the principles of critical thought to make that distinction.

Any other questions?

I asked, in regard to "real time" and the "current era", what FACTS, (not my or your personal opinion) would possibly influence your kids to choose a military career. I agree that SOME military service is valuable. I have many vets,including one of my own kids, in my family, and a heritage of military service in every war going back to the Revolutionary War.
Some wars were necessary and worthwhile. But we're not talking World War II here. Of my friends and relatives who served in Vietnam, I do not know a single one whose post-war life reflects that that service helped more than harmed them. Post-traumatic stress syndrome, Agent Orange health problems, broken marriages, drug addiction, alcoholism, and worst of all, a coarsening or deadening of humanity that results from killing other human beings - often out of panic and fear, and often resulting in the death of non-combatants.; one or more of these has made their military experience overall negative.

You say your children are too young to have to face that decision. Well,the recruiters are now going after grade school kids - the brain-washing starts that early. And do you actually believe that these recruiters will not cleverly push every emotional button they can to influence your kids? I know for a fact that they lie and make promises which will never be honored once they've gotten a kid to sign up. We know that today's soldiers in Iraq were never told the "fact" that they would not be provided with adequate body armor or armored vehicles. They were not told the "fact" that no matter what their specialty training was, they could be assigned to drive unarmored supply trucks in unsecured areas. When's the last time you heard Bush, Cheney or Rumsfeld admit to those "facts"? And even at 18, will your kids have the political sophistication or knowledge to make a rational decision on a life-or-death issue? Your idealism is great in theory, and its true that we all learn from our mistakes, but idealism carries too high a price when your children's lives and well-being are on the line.

You are trying to illicit an opinion?

There are countless 'facts' about military service. How one construes those facts in relationship to their own circumstances is where we develop opinions.

You are absolutely correct that there is a great deal of mismanagement in the military. That is an easily demonstrated facet.

So I will tell them.

The military actually does help with college... easily proven.

So I will tell them.

I will tell them of all the corruption with which I am acquainted. I will tell them of the physical and disciplinary benefits of military service. I will tell them about all of the conflicts we have been involved in and which of them, in my opinion, were or were not worthwhile and why. I will give them all the information I believe it is important for them to have, as well as encourage them to thoroughly research their own prospects.

I made that clear in my last post.

Clearly you would have me steer my children completely away from service simply because the military is being badly abused in the 'current era'.

I made it rather clear that I would give them ALL of the information they might need to make an informed decision... including facts about this 'real time' conflict. And I will not be too humble to give them my opinion about it either.

I imagine that all of the information they might accumulate will steer them in the right direction for them. It may disappoint me if they sign up for infantry during a foolish conflict, but if, after I have provided them with all they need to know, they still make that decision, I will support them.

It will be up to me to raise my children to make good decisions... not program them with my opinions.

I know that you would like me to simply say, "Hell no is my kid going to serve!" because of the 'current' reality, and you are right to assume that I would rather they did not, but I will leave the programming of children to fundies and freepers.

My children will learn to think effectively for themselves... and who knows... maybe they'll grow up to be Democrats unlike their dad.

you around here. I had a recruiter call for my daughter the other day asking for her. Having seen "US GOVT." come up on the caller ID, I asked who was calling...answer, "so and so from the US Army (Lot of career Army in my wife's family)..I asked, "are you a recruiter?" He answered, "yes." I said, "My daughter is in college, not here at home (she started a year early, so was 17--this just before 18th b'day)---and, she knows better than to talk to you, so don't bother calling back."

This wouldn't bother me so much if * was not the (cough) commander-in-chief and I knew we had leadership that wouldn't send our children to fight in an illegal, immoral war.

He was dead silent on the phone when I said that, not a word. So after about 5 seconds I said, "Bye" and hung up.

Thanks for "saving" those kids.

You bulldog you!

Good job!

:-)

from becoming cannon-fodder in this right-wing scheme.

Stop the salesmen in their tracks!

Thanks to you for being a responsible parent!

That took some real guts! Thanks! I bet there are other not-so-on-top-of-things parents that will be glad to hear you stuck your neck out for their children as well as your own!

This tactic shows how desperate they are.

They just hate to hear that kind of stuff. They really "need" a heads up if you are notifying the papers. :evilgrin:

Off now to take son to training to work at the Voting Polls on Nov 8th.

I will check back later to reply to any more comments.

To be fair I did warn the principal last year that I would go to the press if the military's tactics were not stopped.

Check one of my earlier posts for the wording of the Waiver.

Later I will type in the wording on the waiver the Marines used for their inflatable blow-up thingy. At least the marine running that event (across the lawn) put his forms away as soon as I asked.

Way to go fed-up.

Here is a link to Leave My Child Alone, a great website complete with suggestions for dealing with your school board and form letters for opting your child out:

http://www.leavemychildalone.org/

They made it a tad confusing this year...

:bounce:

i also have a teen son, 15, who is CONSTANTLY being targeted for recruitment because of what he occasionally wears: a camo tall tee, which is fashionable here in sacramento. apparently, they feel that he's "military minded" because of it! my son has told me that he's going to stop wearing these tees (his idea, but i agree). they are relentless!

I hope other parents appreciate your actions; If I had kids at that school, I know I would. More parents need to protect their kids from these aggressive tactics.

that you lucked out with such an "informed" asst. principal. I was fully expecting to hear the story end with bloodshed!

Congrats on some seriously fine work!

Keep those body-hunters out of our schools!!

No Child Left Behind calls for schools to release private information to recruiters. The parents/students have to request the info to be blocked. I have no idea what military recruiting has to do with not leaving kids behind. But I guess it goes along with the "Clear Skies Act".


http://www.truthout.org/docs_02/09.23Bb.jvb.child.htm

i'm so proud of you.
:applause:

...the names on the forms included Hugh Jass, Phil McCraken, Ben Dover and Heywood Jablome.)

I hope this posts in the right forum, thread title as I am writing this says: Lobby / Latest / Greatest GD: CIA Leak Case Post a message

or to enrich the coffers of the OIL industry!

Off to work on my LTE...

Legally worthless, too. And if they are injured, the SCHOOL has contact info for them.

What a scam.

they have hit successfullly, and then on to the harassing phone calls described in a reply in this thread.

Well done. I also wonder how many of those kids - and later, their parents - will comprehend what you did for them all.

he has strong feelings about how young people are recruited by the military. He can spread the word and stir up activism about this. Higher visibility is needed because every day they are hitting MORE schools with this scam and probably others as well.

Here's Michael Moore's web site:
http://www.michaelmoore.com

Here's the info from his site on emailing him:

Contacting Michael
If you have something you want to tell Michael directly, contact him at:
mike@michaelmoore.com
Michael gets thousands of emails and does his best to personally answer as many of them as possible. Occasionally his email box "overflows" and you may get an error when trying to contact him. Please be patient and try sending your message to Michael again at a later date.

If they can do that, you ought to be able to hand out LEAVE MY CHILD ALONE fliers. I'll come back and edit with a link.

http://www.leavemychildalone.org/

Fliers and info are all here.

There will be a National Day of Resistance and Die-Ins, rally, and speakers at the nearby college campus on Nov 2nd.
http://worldcantwait.org/

"A symbolic act of resistance. To protest the War on Iraq. To lie in solidarity with those who are dead. To remind our town and our country that war means death. To call for the End of the business as usual of War."

I will try to find someone at the school that will let me know in advance the next time the military brings the rock climbing wall.

I will also try to find out what other activities the military is allowed to come to.

I do know that usually it needs to be a student sponsored group that has a table and hands out information (like leave my child alone flyers) at events.

making a democracy! I am SO in awe of your strength and courage!

You did a great job. :hi:

Well done.

When enough people tell the 'powers that be' that we're not going to put up with their crap, however they manifest it in our lives, IT WILL STOP!

Damn, I am SO PROUD OF YOU--and we don't even know one another! :hi:

An inspiration.

Good for you!!! O8)
Keep up the work.

anyway. A minor is legally unable to sign a release/waiver, that's why an adult signature is typically required.

kids...

I'm not going to put up with this crap. These mother-fuckers have no more right to harass my kids as anybody walking down the street. Harass my children at the risk of your life mother fuckers.

I made the mistake of reading a Smithsonian Mag about Nuclear power and Uranium and then a Recruiter from the Marines came in and gave us a test on it. Me not realizing the scam aced the test (under our name it required that we put our phone number and address) that he didn't expect us to pass. The moron called me every weekday at 5:00am for 3 months.

I'm not going to put up with this crap. Fuck with my families freedom at your own peril Uncle fucking Sam.

nt

Pretty cool on your part. I thought minors couldn't enter into contracts so if, as the military guy said, it was a waiver for injuries, it couldn't be binding.

You were right, they were trolling for info to do a cold call for recruitment. Good job!