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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 11:20 PM
Original message
The most important paragraph in the NYT article.
Mr. Fitzgerald's preparations for a Friday announcement were shrouded in secrecy, but advanced amid a flurry of behind-the-scenes discussions that left open the possibility of last-minute surprises. As the clock ticked down on the grand jury, people involved in the investigation did not rule out the disclosure of previously unknown aspects of the case.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/28/politics/28leak.html?hp&ex=1130558400&en=2f2eae5de9b925ab&ei=5094&partner=homepage
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. Last minute surprises?
Hmm.... :popcorn:
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
2. Unknown aspects? Unknown to whom?
Are they talking about the Niger forgery?
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
3. Do not...
Play Liar's Poker with Fitz. You have been warned.
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longship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. Don't play *any* kind of poker with Fitz.
nt
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #12
33. You know it. Fitzy and Reid should head to Vegas and clean up.
Edited on Fri Oct-28-05 12:07 AM by BlueIris
I'd love to see them square off in a game together. That would be interesting.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #33
42. I suspect both play a mean game of chess for sure! n/t
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longship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #33
46. Reid's move on Miers was sweetness.
I was one of the DUers that picked up on Harry's play the day Chimp named Miers. I called Reid's office and told them that it was a shrewd move. When Miers nomination collapsed today, I cheered Reid's speech. The guy's a genius. He played the Repugs beautifully. It's nice to see a master at work.
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deadparrot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
4. Fitz is a professional,
a truly nonpartisan party. He's intelligent, and he's been involved in this case for two years now. The man knows what he's doing, and I trust he's doing it to the best of his ability.

These knee-jerk, reactionary posts are ridiculous.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
5. The secrecy of the announcement advanced even more than usual
These leaks are still coming from the lawyers of Rove and Libby.
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
6. NYT has to be careful these days, Maddy.
I'm looking forward to the morning. :hi:

Hope things are going well for you in your teaching. I recently moved to NM and am enjoying it!
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Hi, Janx!
Guess what I got last week. A new weimy baby girl. She's only eight weeks old--born on the day that Katrina struck...literally born in the track of the hurricane as the hurricane was passing through.

I wanted to name her Katrina, but my son opted for Zelda. :D
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #8
22. I didn't know what a weimy was...
:blush: looked it up.

Congrats on the new puppy! I know nothing about dogs.
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. She's a beaut.
When I get my camera back from the fire station, I'm going to take a photo and post it.

I have two weimaraners now, and two schnauzers...both are very smart breeds of dogs...excellent companions.

Thanks for the congrats! :hi:
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #22
32. Weimaraners--


_____________________________

(Huck on the right, when he was Very Small)



___________________

Pups getting bigger, Mom getting tired...



________________

This is NOT thread drift. Weimar versus Fascism is a legitimate connection!


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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. Please repost your photos. I want to see your weimies.
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #8
30. Zelda is a very good name!
Edited on Thu Oct-27-05 11:51 PM by janx
Please see weim.net if you haven't already.

And please send me private mail about her. They are the most beautiful and demanding dogs I've ever known. They are so easily spoiled but such etherial companions! And they are such HUNTERS...but so devoted to human companionship! Huck is curled up in my bed by the puff as I write this.

I am so happy to hear your news!

One of my best friends loves terriers also--I can't acquire that taste for my own household, though I love all dogs. My friend likes weims and airedales.
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. I have a male that's three years old.
Oh, I know the frustrations, as well as the rewards.

I rescued Bisbee...his previous owners just set him free near my house, because they couldn't deal with his chewing anymore.

We had some very trying moments--like when he chewed the door frame off of the front door...but then when he turned a year old, he settled in and his behavior was much better.

He saved my life a couple of years ago, when I ran a gocart off of a bridge into a creek on the backside of our property. Bisbee was following me on the go cart. I had broken my knee and was in about four feet of water. Bisbee came in, allowed me to hold onto him, and he pulled me to the bank and then up the bank. My son, who was also in the go cart, was uninjured, and ran the mile to the house to call 911.

Meanwhile, I was going into shock...it was December, I was wet, and the rain had begun. I was in immense pain, and could tell that I was going out...and then Bisbee laid down on top of me to warm me up, and he licked my face until help arrived.

Bisbee is my hero. Before the accident, I wouldn't let him sleep on my expensive wicker furniture on the front porch...now the front porch is HIS domain, and he can sleep whereever he wants, inside or out.

He's wild about Zelda. She thinks he's her mother. It's so funny watching a three year old and a two month old interact. I really need to make some photos.

Anyway, I am so glad to talk to you...you are the only person on DU I know who has a weimy. :hi:
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #31
34. LeftChick has weimies also!
And I don't think she's the only one.

But I've talked to you about teaching in higher ed, etc., so there are two things we have in common.

I'm so happy for you re the dogs. It's getting late, and I'm about to put on my flannels here in New Mexico and crash in the bed under the puff with the weim...who cuddles so strongly that he commands most of the bed! He is a bed hog.

Happy Fitzmas Eve, Maddy. There have been some very dark years, but I think we're going to see, finally, some inevitable and interesting developments.
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. I'm heading to bed myself...soon...
:hi:
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kitkat65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #8
44. I named the stray cat I took in around that time "Stella"
Too bad I didn't have the foresight to name Cosmo, our chubby bullyboy of a cat, Stanley.
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mirandapriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
7. How can there be previously "unknown aspects"
when we don't know anything in the first place?
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Maybe there is a direction being undertaken by Fitzgerald...
that had yet to be discussed by the MSM pundits.

It will be interesting to see.
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #10
37. Have you noticed that DU is becoming slow to load of late?
Periodically, it's very slow.

I wonder why that is...
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #37
39. Yes. I have DSL...and the pages sometimes time-out...
I don't know what's going on. Hope the three amigos have a plan for the increase in traffic we'll experience when the news breaks.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
9. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Welcome to DU.
Why would you want to join a website with nothing but a band of "complete idiots?"
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #11
26. LOL!
:thumbsup:
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Yeah, okay. "No underlying crime..."
Riiiiiiiight.... :eyes:

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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. There was a crime. Obstruction of justice is not nothing.
Why don't we wait and see what happens. And BTW, Fitzgerald isn't a part of "we" as in "we look like complete idiots". "We" won't look like idiots, they will look like the crooks they are. In fact, they already do!
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. Welcome to DU!
Now go away please.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #9
25. Welcome to DU! Enjoy your stay................
(My, we do seem to have an infestation tonight!)
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SeveneightyWhoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #9
29. Who's "we"?
It's your first post, pal. Don't associate yourself with us "complete idiots" yet.
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Oilwellian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
16. Perhaps this is the unknown aspect
Cheney, Libby Blocked Papers To Senate Intelligence Panel
By Murray Waas, special to National Journal
© National Journal Group Inc.
Thursday, Oct. 27, 2005

Vice President Cheney and his chief of staff, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, overruling advice from some White House political staffers and lawyers, decided to withhold crucial documents from the Senate Intelligence Committee in 2004 when the panel was investigating the use of pre-war intelligence that erroneously concluded Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, according to Bush administration and congressional sources.



Among the White House materials withheld from the committee were Libby-authored passages in drafts of a speech that then-Secretary of State Colin L. Powell delivered to the United Nations in February 2003 to argue the Bush administration's case for war with Iraq, according to congressional and administration sources. The withheld documents also included intelligence data that Cheney's office -- and Libby in particular -- pushed to be included in Powell's speech, the sources said.

The new information that Cheney and Libby blocked information to the Senate Intelligence Committee further underscores the central role played by the vice president's office in trying to blunt criticism that the Bush administration exaggerated intelligence data to make the case to go to war.

The disclosures also come as Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald wraps up the nearly two-year-old CIA leak investigation that has focused heavily on Libby's role in discussing covert intelligence operative Valerie Plame with reporters. Fitzgerald could announce as soon as tomorrow whether a federal grand jury is handing up indictments in the case.

Central to Fitzgerald's investigation is whether administration officials disclosed Plame's identity and CIA status in an effort to discredit her husband, former ambassador and vocal Bush administration critic Joseph Wilson, who wrote newspaper op-ed columns and made other public charges beginning in 2003 that the administration misused intelligence on Iraq that he gathered on a CIA-sponsored trip to Africa.

http://nationaljournal.com/about/njweekly/stories/2005/...

And check out this Dem Senate Intelligence Cmte report:

Senate Intelligence Committee Confirms Faulty Foundation of Bush Administration's Push for War in Iraq

Under pressure from congressional Democrats last year, the Senate Intelligence Committee agreed to conduct an investigation of our government's actions and statements on Iraq in the period before the start of the conflict there. However, rather than conduct a single comprehensive investigation of these issues, Intelligence Committee Chairman Roberts decided to split this inquiry into two phases. The Committee released the results of the first phase of its investigation on July 17, 2004. Entitled "U.S. Intelligence Community's Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq," the Committee's report concludes that the Bush Administration's case for war with Iraq was dramatically overstated and largely inaccurate.

In their additional views to the report, Vice Chairman Rockefeller and Senators Levin and Durbin argue that phase one paints an incomplete picture of what occurred prior to the war and make a compelling case for the committee to quickly complete phase two - an analysis of the Administration's use of this intelligence. According to these Senators, forceful public statements by senior Administration officials about the threat posed by Iraq created an intense climate of pressure on the intelligence community as it conducted its own analyses of these issues. This document presents key conclusions from the report and from the additional views submitted by Senators Rockefeller, Levin, and Durbin.

Major Conclusions Of Committee Report

"Most of the major key judgments in the Intelligence Community's October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate (NIE), Iraq's Continuing Programs for Weapons of Mass Destruction, either were overstated, or were not supported by, the underlying intelligence reporting."


"After reviewing all of the intelligence provided by the Intelligence Community and additional information requested by the Committee, the Committee believes that the judgment in the National Intelligence Estimate that Iraq was reconstituting its nuclear program was not supported by the intelligence."


"The statement in the key judgments of the NIE that `Baghdad has chemical and biological weapons' overstated both what was known and what intelligence analysts judged about Iraq's chemical and biological weapons holdings."


"The language in the October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate that `Iraq also began vigorously trying to procure uranium ore and yellowcake' overstated what the Intelligence Community knew about Iraq's possible procurement attempts."


"Much of the information provided or cleared by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) for inclusion in Secretary Powell's speech was overstated, misleading, or incorrect."


"The Central Intelligence Agency's assessment that to date there was no evidence proving Iraqi complicity or assistance in an al-Qaeda attack was reasonable and objective. No additional information has emerged to suggest otherwise."


Additional Views of Senators Rockefeller, Levin, and Durbin

"Regrettably, report paints an incomplete picture of what occurred during this period of time. The Committee set out to examine ten areas of investigation relating to pre-war intelligence on Iraq and we completed only five in this report."


"The central issue of how intelligence on Iraq was used or misused by Administration officials in public statements and reports were relegated to the second phase of the Committee's investigation along with other issues related to the intelligence activities of Pentagon policy officials, pre-war intelligence assessments about post-war Iraq, and the role played by the Iraqi National Congress, led by Ahmad Chalabi, which claims to have passed `raw intelligence' and defector information directly to the Pentagon and the Office of Vice President."


"As a result, the Committee's phase one report fails to fully explain the environment of intense pressure in which Intelligence Community officials were asked to render judgments on matters relating to Iraq when policy officials had already forcefully stated their own conclusions in public."


"The Estimate and related analytical papers assessing Iraqi links to terrorism were produced by the Intelligence Community in a highly-pressurized climate wherein senior Administration officials were making the case for military action against Iraq through public and often definitive pronouncements."


"In the months before the production of the Intelligence Community's October 2002 Estimate, Administration officials undertook a relentless public campaign which repeatedly characterized the Iraq weapons of mass destruction program in more ominous and threatening terms than the Intelligence Community analysis substantiated. Similarly, public statements of senior officials on Iraqi links to terrorism generally, and al-Qaeda specifically, were often based on a selective release of intelligence information that implied a cooperative, operational relationship that the Intelligence Community did not believe existed."


"High-profile statements in support of the Administration's policy of regime change were made in advance of any meaningful intelligence analysis and created pressure on the Intelligence Community to conform to the certainty contained in the pronouncements."


"Another form of pressure on the Intelligence Community during 2002 came from policymakers repetitively tasking analysts to review, reconsider, and revise their analytical judgments."


The CIA conducted its own independent review on U.S. intelligence on Iraq. Richard Kerr, former Deputy Director of Central Intelligence and leader of the review, stated publicly, "`There was a lot of pressure, no question... The White House, State, Defense were raising questions, heavily on WMD and the issue of terrorism... There was a lot of repetitive tasking. The repetitive requests...came from the CIA's `senior customers,' including the White House, the Vice President, State, Defense, and the Joint Chiefs of Staff.'"


"The Ombudsman told the Committee that he felt the "hammering" by the Bush Administration on Iraq intelligence was harder than he had previously witnessed in his 32-year career with the agency. Several analysts he spoke with mentioned pressure and gave the sense that they felt the constant questions and pressure to reexamine issues were unreasonable."


"When the analytical judgments of the Intelligence Community did not conform to the more conclusive and dire Administration view on Iraqi links to al-Qaeda and specifically the notion that Iraq may have been involved in the September 11th terrorist plot, policymakers within the Pentagon denigrated the Intelligence Community's analysis and sought to trump it by circumventing the CIA and briefing their own analysis directly to the White House."


"The qualifications the Intelligence Community placed on what it assessed about Iraq's links to terrorism and alleged weapons of mass destruction programs were spurned by top Bush Administration officials."


"By the time American troops had been deployed overseas and were poised to attack Iraq, the Administration had skillfully manipulated and cowed the Intelligence Community into approving public statements that conveyed a level of conviction and certainty that was not supported by an objective reading of the underlying intelligence reporting."

http://democrats.senate.gov/dpc/dpc-doc.cfm?doc_name=fs-108-2-210

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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. This:
The new information that Cheney and Libby blocked information to the Senate Intelligence Committee further underscores the central role played by the vice president's office in trying to blunt criticism that the Bush administration exaggerated intelligence data to make the case to go to war.

The disclosures also come as Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald wraps up the nearly two-year-old CIA leak investigation that has focused heavily on Libby's role in discussing covert intelligence operative Valerie Plame with reporters. Fitzgerald could announce as soon as tomorrow whether a federal grand jury is handing up indictments in the case.



*********************************

Could very well be! :thumbsup:
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Oilwellian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. I love your frog
I saw it in comments on Dkos' website the other day and started a thread with it titled "Frog March." :D
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. Cool!
Thanks! People either love him or hate him. Most hate his teeth. I just think he's adorable. :D
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #28
40. He has better dental insurance than most people over 40
years of age... ;-)
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
17. i noticed that too Maddy..i do not think anyone can tell anything
Edited on Thu Oct-27-05 11:34 PM by flyarm
now..its only guessing...we have to be patient and wait for fitz to do his job and out trust in him..he must nail it in order to win in a trial..no point in getting indictments that won't hold water in court..he has to have it totally nailed...

i will await and trust fitz...and i will fight myself for all the patients i can muster..for the truth...

fly
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Hi Fly! I, too, am going to trust in the truth and Fitz.
I believed before in truth and was disappointed, but I am still an optimist.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #20
41. hi cry baby...!!..
:hi: heyyyy what choice do we have..there are no other alternatives!!

fly
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kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
18. Not sure
"As rumors coursed through the capital, (((Mr. Fitzgerald gave no public signal of how he intended to proceed))), further intensifying the anxiety that has gripped the White House and left partisans on both sides of the political aisle holding their breath".


So the nytimes are mind readers?
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Exactly...
and the leaks could be coming from Rove's lawyer. Smoke and mirrors....sometimes changing the popular sentiment through early leaks is more effective than the actual announcement.

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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
23. This proves we don't know what's going to happen...
I think everyone will be surprised by what we find out tomorrow.
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
38. Even if it is only Libby
I will be happy. The trial will distract the administration and will keep the run up to the Iraq war fiasco in the mainstream media. It will keep * from doing as much damage as he could of otherwise.
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deadparrot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
43. If Fitz's investigations are known for their secrecy,
Edited on Fri Oct-28-05 01:02 AM by deadparrot
why oh why would Fitz send out target letters/make calls informing these people of his genuine intentions? He would have to know that any calls he made or letters that he sent would be immediately leaked. The man has no history of leaking any information to the press (in fact, it's quite the opposite). Why would he do any different with this case?

It doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
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LunaC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
45. HA! Just as I thought!
I just posted this on another thread.....

The Bush/Cheney/PNAC Cabal got to where they are entirely through smoke and mirror lies and deceptions.

Fitz is the Zen Master of seeing through the illusion and exposing the Reality. It's what he thrives on...it's his passion! I sense that he's all about honor & integrity...right and wrong...truth and justice... and the Bad Guys are an insult to his character and dignity. It's personal for him. He's never let them get off with a wrist slap in the past and I don't expect things to be different now.

Cheney's going to be included in the first wave of indictments and when Fitz empanels a new GJ and all is said and done, Cheney and the entire PNAC will be exposed for the treasonous, money-grubbing criminals they are. I have THAT much faith in Fitz!

And I wouldn't be a bit surprised if he doesn't come up with a couple of zingers tomorrow that no one anticipated and we may very well ooooooh and aaaaaaah over his brilliance for weeks to come.

This is just the opening act...

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