Fitzmas: A perfect example of why Democrats lose

"Fitzmas" is just a replay of the Bush National Guard/60 Minutes/F911 mistakes: time and energy better spent campaigning and/or building Democratic grassroots is wasted on uselessly blogging and posting endlessly about scandals and rumors of scandals. People (or rather, some people) expect some "magic bullet" in the form of a scandal or a film or something else to bring the Republicans down: It doesn't work that way. It won't work that way.

Recently, I read an article about some young Republican training camp. The director of the camp told his young, well-dressed chickenhawks that (paraphrasing) "conspiracy theories and scandals about Republicans are sometimes good - it makes Democrats chase after blind leads in blind alleys and completely wastes their time. Meanwhile, we do the groundwork to win."

I really need to be able to talk about all the insanity that is going on in the Pub party, and I love being able to do it with like minded people. That's not wasting time.

I do think though, that we need to spend more time planning on a strategy to win!

Love the idea of a training camp! Why don't the Dems have those?

I hope there are a lot of good students!!!!

If Rove gets indicted, it will just make the public hate republicans. I'm not sure it will make democrats all that much more popular. Public will just get disenchanted with 'corrupt' politicians.

Democrat party movement DESPERATELY needs a grand vision, a worldview that can deal with the BIG issues, the big picture of our time and INSPIRE at the same time.

this could lead to Cheney resigning or more... this exposing of the truth will go on for months, and will have a great impact on '06. The approval rating of the shrub is dropping like a stone.

The problem is, and has been, the media.. you (unwittingly?) are repeating rightwing talking points that dems have no ideas... no vision... thats BS.. there IS vision, but with the repeating of the mantra, dems have no plan.. dems have no vision, many believe it is true. Funny how I know the vision, (healthcare for all, Apollo Energy program, stop outsourcing, tax corperations fairly, ect..) its available on the Dem websites. Like during the election Kerry had many plans laid out on his website, but no media would answer the charges from the republicans that Kerry has no plan by simply saying.. "yes he does, I've read it".

What we all DESPERATLY need is the truth, especially in the media.. but the propaganda machine is strong, and I think Fitzmas is the justice we cant get in the public square or in the hall of the Capitol.

Don't take it too seriously.

Remember "Flip-flop" at the GOP convention? LOL. The idiots had flip flop shoes. It was stupid. It's politics. All political ideologies engage in it.

Democrats lose because the leadership refuses to embrace non-voters who are paid minimum wage, imho.

about the issues.

In reality,

What non-voters don't care about is Democratic activists who are too stuck-up to use
silly slogans.

Compare "flip-flop" to "Fitzmas".

You'll never, ever see a Rovian operator disparage Repubs for using a "silly talking point that makes no sense, that does nothing to rally Republican voters."

For one thing, Republican voters don't need rallying. They already play up Republican conspiracy theories about Democrats (surprise, surprise!) and unify their base.

Repubs primarily go after the working class, white, somewhat-religious non-voter round election time.

The poor, ex-union folks whom "serious-minded" "mainstream" "globalist" Dems are doing little to attract.

Beating the streets to hit up folks who are already democrats and get them back interested again, having faded into the woodwork after Kerry lost, is painting lipstick on the pig if there are REASONS the democratic rank and file aren't excited about their leadership.

republicans and they've been getting all the negative press in the world, they're not gonn abe able to help the kinda crap that screws them over. I agree though, sometimes the anticipation and predictions without backing can be quite harmful. Now though, the media' s been all over the adminstration and people finally know Bush isn't some goody-toe shoes, boyscout.

It's mor eof the fact that something so big is happening the press has no choice but to cover it. Since * has taken office the media have been completely negligent in reporting the truth. Without Spin. With out partisan hackery. They are as much to blame for the shape htis country is in as the repugs are.

who have no sympathy for the needy. They have forsake Christianity completely.

Plenty of opportunities to get involved in real political work:

http://www.illinoisdemnet.org

No matter what "Fitzmas" brings--if anything--anything short of the indictment of the whole senior staff and Cheney is bound to leave some people here at DU taking to the boards with rage, screaming "betrayal".

Having said that, small progress has been made: a majority of Americans now regard the Iraq war as wrong, and Baby Bush has the lowest approval ratings of his presidency. That's an improvement over where we were at this time last year.

There will be no magi bullet, but over time, a lot of problems build up over a two term presidency that cumulatively will come home to roost.

criminals and steal elections to do it.

Some Democrats, like so many Republicans, are "Holier that Thou" and think they know better than the rest the way out of the cave, when all they are really doing is banging their heads against the walls.

Hence, favor running a truly evil campaign in 2008, on the model of Nixon '72 or Bush '88.

This will just have to be done for the good of the country. I'm sorry if that bothers you.

"The dark side of the force is a pathway to powers some consider to be un-natural"

Chancellor Palpatine

who beat them because they didn't play by polite British rules of warfare.

Winning by thievery and lies does bother me. And if my party stoops so low to win, I'll become an independent.

I read today that former FEMA chief (now a Republican activist), Michael Brown, said Democrats were the "enemies" of the Republican party. Really? And here I thought the terrorists were our enemies.

The kind of people who ran Kerry's campaign plus the DLC leadership can't be trusted to do anything right.

:eyes:

You can't really know what any given poster is doing at any given time; for example last night and tonight my DFA group conducted two precinct chair trainings for our county party.

That said, there are also a lot of "armchair warriors" here on DU who really DO need to get out there and actually try to walk the talk a bit.

There's a lot of active people like yourself who aren't keyboard jockeys. I've been involved with NJ Democratic party, but I'm looking to get involved with NJ area DFA.

It's a matter of LAW and ORDER, NOT politics.

And, ANYWAY (reposted from Larry Johnson's report on the DU front page):

The probe is far from being at an end. According to this reporter's sources, Fitzgerald approached the judge in charge of the case and asked that a new grand jury be empaneled. The old grand jury, which has been sitting for two years, will expire on October 28.

Thanks to a letter of February, 2004 in which Fitzgerald asked for and obtained expanded authority, the Special Prosecutor is now in possession of an Italian parliament nvestigation into the forged Niger documents alleging Iraq's interest in purchasing Niger uranium, sources said.

They said that Fitzgerald is looking into such individuals as former CIA agent, Duane Claridge, military consultant to the Iraqi National Congress, Gen. Wayne Downing, another military consultant for INC, and Francis Brooke, head of INC's Washingfton office in an effort to determine if they played any role in the forgeriese or their dissiemination. Also included in this group is long-time neoconservative Michael Ledeen, these federal sources said.

On the Hill, Sen. Edward Kennedy (D-Mass.) and Sen. Harry Reid (D-Nev.), democratic whip, are asking for public hearings to lay bare the forgeries and how their false allegations ended up in President George Bush's State of the Union speech.


**********
By the way? Democrats did NOT lose 2000, 2002 and 2004.

Those elections were STOLEN. Read the GAO's report.

Want to do something to make sure the party "wins"? Help to get some REAL security into state election legislation. They are not going to let us abandon the machines. So read up on WHAT the security loopholes are and help to get them plugged in each state's legislature.

I don't just want to win an election...I want the a paradigm shift back to liberalism...caring about your fellow American.
quote......
Think of a Paradigm Shift as a change from one way of thinking to another. It's a revolution, a transformation, a sort of metamorphosis. It just does not happen, but rather it is driven by agents of change.
end quote.....
http://www.taketheleap.com/define.html

I want to be proud once again of being a liberal. Our damn leadership chokes on the word.

Look at this hurricane season and the devastation it has brought to teevee viewers all over the USA. Look at the suffering and sadness going on all over the world. Not that there hasnt always been suffering and sadness.. but it's been very in our face this year. Look at 9/11.. the true root, our horrible foreign policy.

You'd think our dem leaders would be able to focus on how the world teaches us that the other way just hasnt been working and unless we want to hunker down for depression after depression, there is another way.

That was the one thing that drew me into the Edwards run for President... it's also what won Clinton the Presidency. Dont, stop, thinking about tomorrow... remember?

with balls...do what is totally unconventional. I agree with you about our root causes. Terrorism is being caused by decades of archaic foreign policy.
Bushit should stand in the well of the UN and tell the World America is disarming and we expect every country to follow us. IF they don't they will pay the price with sanctions and elimination of foreign trade. We have spent $250 BILLION in Iraq and counting, have lost 2005 American lives and counting, have maimed tens of thousands of American kids and counting...and we are no safer. There are not enough bombs in the world to stop this, there are not enough money in the world to stop this..and sadly there are not enough American lives to stop this..the only way is totally disarm this planet and change our foreign/free trade policies and get the F*CK out of countries that don't want us there. Brute force is not working and is only making this planet a hot cake for terrorism. We used to have a enemies with China and USSR..now they are our friends(?).We now have Iran, Syria, N.Korea and Pakistan that have nukes and god knows how many more have bio/chem. MAD worked decades ago when people were not willing to die for their cause and we were dealing with reasonable people. We only know in the last few years how close we came during the Cuban Missile Crisis to WW 3...now they are. How do you stop this?

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have a backlash on Dems? Please explain.

Bloggers cannot be taken seriously because they tend to focus their energy on ultimately useless enterprises.

What would you consider useful? Not all of us have the social skills
to be effective at traditional grass-roots organizing.

Granted, there may be an indictment here with Plamegate

with more on the way, more than likely.

but to me the whole investigation was a waste of time and money

I am sure Karl Rove would like us to believe that, and we will be
hearing that meme a lot from the Judith Millers and the Jeff Gannons
in our media.

They tooks us to war based on a pack of lies. When those lies were
exposed, they endangered the security of our country against WMDs,
which itself was the pretext for the war, to keep the lies from being
refuted and to punish a whistleblower. If this is not worth
investigating, what is?

And I won't even go into the silence of the bloggers regarding election rigging.

If it weren't for the net, election theft would get no coverage at all.

Is it the light that will shine on a crime?
Is it a moment in history the turning point?
Is it the rebirth of American Values?
Is it a begin of a sad journey the long hard climb out of a darkness pit?
Is it David versus Goliath?

Is it a perfect example of why Democrats lose??????

What is Fitzmas?????

Maybe maybe it is about a dying women lying in a hospice
crying and worrying about voting for bush twice

Maybe maybe it is an expression of hope/joy that the madness will end

Maybe maybe Fitzmas should be kill and VOILA DEMOCRATS WIN

:hi: MERRY FITZMAS :party:

This is a legal step forward. It's not "reports", it's not rumors, it is someone in the VP's office under indictment. That is big news - and has huge implications.

No one is ONLY doing this. A lot of us work at our computers. This is our water cooler. It's a convenient and more constructive activity.

I should added something along with what you say. Diversions are good, as long as it's only a diversion.

the concept of 'fitzmas' which kind of bothers me. It sounds celebratory and having our leaders indicted for crimes that are treasonous in a time of war is nothing to celebrate about.

And I think thats were the opposition cleans our clock constantly with language, message, framing. They seem to have a more Psyop approach to getting the point accros i.e. Estate Tax = Death Tax

So 'Fitzmas' just gives them ammunition to attack with. Those liberals hate america and all that shit.

They just abuse the law to do whatever they want, without thought of those they are supposed to represent.

Finally! They are not going ignored, unnoticed, and above the law.
Finally! They will bear scrutiny. For this, I celebrate, and I have no intention of stopping.

We all wish that we had honest leaders. Since we don't, we're celebrating the fact that the truth is coming out. That's always good.

They'll attack us no matter what, so I really don't worry about their views on Fitzmas or anything else. The truth doesn't change, no matter what they say.

If Fitzgerald exposes treasonous acts, we should be glad. The Bush mafia almost got away with that kind of destructive, anti-democratic behavior through their secretive ways.

He is doing exactly what you claim we are not doing. He is doing the groundwork to win.

It's really getting a little old being lectured by the corporatists who have destroyed this party, not to criticize the fascists who have destroyed this country.

No, no magic bullet. Just the patient chipping away at feet of clay. Blogs are for keeping the rank and file pumped up, to cheer on those who wield the chisels.

It took several years to topple Nixon, day in, day out. Some days the story was big, some days it was small, some days there was no Watergate story at all. But still they chipped away. Not all leads are blind, but some leaders are. Tap tap tap.

Their legs are beginning to buckle like wet noodles.

It's just plain too easy. If somehow this is a magic bullet, then something sinister is lurking behind it. Real change has not happened in this country. It has not happened in this party. It hasnt even happened in most of our own individual lives.

Everytime something like this happens.. IE. the DSM, Cindy Sheehan, etc.. we pin our hopes to the wagon and then we bitch about the people when they dont deliver us. We have very little interest in engaging in the struggle ourselves.. I am just as guilty as anyone else. Each day I tell myself that I should be doing more.. I know that I should be doing more. But I dont. Cause Im scared to death of losing everything. What would I do without my cushy job? How would I actually do anything anyway? What if I didnt even make any sort of difference? Better to not try then to fail, right... yet I scan the horizon for some sort of sign that Im not the only one jumping into the fray.. power in numbers, right. I go to protests. I throw money at charities. I dont watch fox, dont buy stuff from McDonald's... you know, all those things that "liberals" are supposed to do.

Ive been ashamed to see posts bashing Cindy because she doesnt stand with Hillary. I am simply not willing to sell out my soul and what I believe is right for an "anybody but a Republican motto". Luckily, Kerry made Edwards his running mate last time around, so I didnt have to vote for just ABB. I stand way more closely behind Cindy then I do Hillary. The writing about this war and the way we have been headed has been there since day one of the first term. It has never taken a rocket scientist to figure it out. So, to me, there was no excuse to vote for this war and as a woman, Ill be damned if I help make Hillary the first woman president. Give me Maxine Waters, then we can talk.

Until we as a people of this country are ready to lay it on the line for real change, Patrick Fitzgerald can hand out all the indictments he can print and it doesnt amount to a hill of beans.

And the fact is, change doesnt come easy. It isnt comfortable.. it will not feed our affluenza. It's hard. It's real. It is painful. It is deadly... beautiful, scary, life changing.. and it is nessecary.

We are headed down a dangerous path and thinking that "Fitzmas" is going to save us seems so irresponsible, yet perfectly American.

But that is just my .02.

Too many cause celebres have turned into disappointments - with the exception, maybe, of Cindy Sheehan's ranch protest. Bush' approval rating seemed to drop a lot starting with the protest.

>Each day I tell myself that I should be doing more.. I know that I >should be doing more. But I don't. Cause I'm scared to death of losing >everything. What would I do without my cushy job?

I have a fundie CEO that runs a small high tech firm. The guy is Yale, as dumb and as mean as GWB. He fires twenty year engineers to put his fundie cronies in their jobs. He will not accept any criticism and he does not give a shit about the customer once the sale has been made. He is spending like crazy with elaborate trade show booths and perks for the "leadership council"

In other words I work in a micro bush environment. I have heard that they actually have prayer meetings at work.

So I ask myself every day "Why do I work for these weasels?"

I proudly drive on to the parking lot every day with my anti-bush bumper sticker and I do only what I am told to do. I save my creativity and my passion for my time off. This is just a shame because I used to work late because I felt passion about my profession.

I work at a small company and all but 2 of us are firmly antibush. Some are more libertarian leaning then Dem, but Im cool with that. Im a libertarian when it comes to most things.. truth be told. The only thing that keeps me a dem are my ideas about social care and support constructs. Not to mention generations :)

Even in this environment, I feel like I should be willing to go chain myself to the whitehouse fence, like Cindy Sheehan... or atleast go to the middle of town with a sign and some literature. I try to get involved with already established groups.. but there is alot of ego going on in them nowadays.

I spent a nice amount of time in Crawford when Cindy was there and the best thing about it was getting to spend time with her and hear what she thought. The rest of it was a big fucking disappointment. But that one woman, she did effect real change in the hearts of alot of people. She didnt need any of the ancillary fogging up her message.


"I save my creativity and my passion for my time off."- I feel like alot of us, although I can just speak for myself, have been in a tenuous hibernation... waiting on something. I just wonder if Ill be able to recognize that something when I see it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5192093

Real Conservative Power: Why Fitz and shrub don’t matter.
Regardless of what happens with the Fitz indictments, whether they come or not, it will matter little other than a sense of being vindicated, on some level, for us.

But, in my opinion shrub no longer matters.

He is a lame duck.

He has only three more years to go.

He has been weakened as a President.

His Iraq policy is failing.

Why isn’t this good news for dems?

Because shrubco is a front, and he is disposable to the real radicalrightwing ruling elite.

They will blame him, ruin his legacy if they need to do so to distance themselves from him, but they will remain behind the scenes as the policy makers.

Witness this Harriet Miers debacle.

The religious right would have been happy to have a fundy in SCOTUS. But she failed to please the neocon intelligencia. And they came out in full force and pulled a frontal attack. And, in an unprecedented move, even before she could make a peep on her own behalf in front of Congress she is out. This is a testimony to the real poer in the conservative party.

I am afraid and concerned that this Fitzgerald investigation is a distraction. I am afraid that even our heart felt attacks on shrub are a distraction. The real power resides with those who took us to war with Iraq, those who have for years been writing our foreign policy, those who blasted Harriet right out of the game, these unelected power brokers and policy makers that seem to influence Presidents and Prime Ministers.

When shrub is gone, or weakened for another three years, the neocons will not be out of power. They will write books, continue to have their policy think tanks, keep writing their magazine articles, and continue to appear on TV influencing public opinion.

They have incredible power and the Harriet Miers withdrawal only confirms that.

I think we need to keep our eye on the real prize, shrubco is so 2004, but watch the real brains behind the conservative movement- that’s where the power is.

Thoughts?

Both sides will jump on any opportunity to kick the other side. It has nothing to do with Democrats -- it's just the way opponents react. In sports, it's called "trash talk."

That said, I agree that the whole "Fitzmas" deal does nothing to help us and may even harm us. I can't help cringing if I imagine the demonstratively non-partisan Fitzgerald getting wind of it. I would think it would have a recoiling effect. The guy is not gifting a partisan side. He is conducting this investigation in service to his country. I'm not a scrooge, but personally I'll save the needling rhetoric until after the outcome. Be smart.

Chill out, we're having fun. Being effective and having fun are not mutually exclusive.

At the very least, you're illuminating the basic fact that we spend a lot, lot, lot of time on scandal sheet stuff.

This is about the war, though, and I don't think it can be dismissed as a simple scandal, to be thrown into the heaping pile of previous Presidential scandal.

It's not over, but your point is right, and well-taken.

FITZMAS does not belong to the Democratic party.
Who give you the right to claim it.

KEPP YOUR POLITIC OUT OF FITZMAS hey.

:party:

As long as we realize that, the anticipation and hoopla is fine. But I would much rather win the Virginia and New Jersey gov races than have any of this Fitzmas nonsense happen.

It may not be absolutely zero impact. But damn close. Certainly much more in that ball park than the posters and threads that are insisting we'll rocket to congressional majorities next year.

Negative news is their game, not ours, just like negative campaigning works for them and not us. I guess I'll just have to understand that and be right, than convince anyone else. The GOPs depends on those braindeads, like the ones who call CSPAN every morning. The ones you can tell their mindset and caliber within three words. That type feeds off of ignorance and negativity so the GOP gladly provides it in buckets, from all directions. Our party is currently dependent on winning the support of thoughtful white women, the type who struggle with domestic economic priorities as opposed to the GOP's perceived edge in national security, especially post 9/11.

I guarantee this leak investigation, regardless of its bottom line, will not influence that type of voter next year or in 2008, as compared to the proper candidate and his/her specific and positive message. We barely won in 1976, for god's sakes, two years post Watergate. I'm old enough to remember, and that dominated the news cycles for years, including live coverage all day long. The soap opera fans were pissed. Yet Carter barely broke 50% in '76, even though he dominated the South. If that doesn't tell you everything you need to know regarding how irrelevant this is to future elections, I give up.

Progressives are fools if they think the Reactionaries can be driven from office by scandals. The only path to victory is getting out the message.

This case needs to be kept in the news, and the voice of outrage needs to be heard. It's not nearly as important as other criminal diversions of the Bush Administration, but perhaps some day we will look back at this as the first crack of light through the door.

I fervently wish to see a day when the Bush Administration and all of its enablers are held up as the benchmark for criminal incompetence. The way to ensure that happens is to amass, piece by piece, a body of evidence which comprehensively lists the extralegal acts of the President and his cohorts, so that such a curse may never be visited upon our houses ever again.

So we start here, with this. Who knows where it's gonna end!

really is about...hope for some justice. Someone/something they have to listen to letting them know there are limits and consequences.

That just hasn't been happening. We've watched things going on in growing horror. We can make calls, write mail, demonstrate, educate. Many people who had knowledge and a right to be heard have spoken out, written books, testified.
Many have donated, worked hard to get out the vote.
People are doing ground work and great work. More should,.

But this gang marched on, getting more blatant, so arrogant in their power. Who's going to really call them on it let alone stop them.

Fitzgerald is no magic bullet, but it's a kind of magic that we haven't seen here. If he is what he seems to be and if they did what it seems they did...there will be a start of justice. And if much is exposed it will open the door for more people to see, more press to actually serve as press, people more willing to listen.

Too many were hypnotized by the spell cast by 9/11 and though the war and Katrina and such things was opening eyes...Fitzgerald at this time calling them on crimes they did so casually...means a lot in itself.

Some justice would be meaningful in itself.

in such a fashion that the truth about Bush and his criminal cronies would emerge. Think of a year ago. You couldn't pay the media to cover a negative story about this bunch. While your points are probably valid, I'm going to enjoy Fitzmas for all its worth.

What you might not understand is that this scandal has the potential of taking the choke-hold off the press entirely. First Katrina and now getting Rove out of the WH has unleashed a bitter press and they need our support. If we just yawn and turn away, then they won't have the courage to break away and report hard truths in the future. Now I wish we could get the news fillers to be the Katrina survivors in DC instead of MWG, but baby steps I guess.

It is time for something besides "Fitzmas" because we do have a tendency to overplay our hand. I wish we could come up with something that flashy that actually relays what these people have done.

The bigger the "Fitmas" Hooplah, the bigger the disappointing fall, blogoshere wake, and time wasted crying.

These two weeks of "fitzmas" have been a major detraction from the real issue - 2006 elections

Sad isn't it? We here at DU love to dream about silver bullets taking the "enemy" down and magical heroes stepping up to sweep all before them. Write a post about organizing on the ground and various local party building efforts and watch it sink. Post a poll about your dreamiest heroes for 08 though and watch it go for a whole day or two.

You're right, "it doesn't work that way". :toast:

Julie

Most of us don't expect this scandal or that scandal to bring down BFEE but the steady trickle of this scandal and that scandal coupled with this misstep and that misstep is why BFEE is starting to become held in such low esteem by the American people...

You can't grow Democratic grassroots if there is no "soil." All of the political gains that have been made recently have been made due to one thing: the news. The failures in Iraq, the continuing "wrong track" economy, the failures post-Katrina... the truth has fought for us.

The huge grassroots effort by ACT and MoveOn during the last election did vastly less for Kerry than Kerry's own performance. The election was a PR war, despite the best efforts of people walking door-to-door (I was one) and donating money (did that too). People don't trust door-to-door canvassers. They don't know us from Adam and Eve. Successful candidates will be the ones who appeal directly to Americans on their own merits -- and that appeal will be affected by the media, not old-fashioned campaigning.

There is still a place for voter registration, IMO, but it balances out with the Republicans. We have no advantage there. Our big advantage is the fact that the current Republican strain is poisoning the country, and people can remember better times under the Democrats.

a substantial portion of our attention.

While the fall out from this remains to be seen, as of this moment no one knows what will come from the Fitz investigation, we are still being reactive not proactive.

We are reacting to news not making it.

We need to make sure that the American people understand that Fitz-gate is not just an example of isolated corruption in the WH, but rather represents systemic illness in the conservative moment.

We need to give America some pro-active solutions that make the Democrats appealing, and turning that appeal into votes.

Why?

Because there is a risk in thinking that Plame-gate is an end in itself, and if that happens we will sit by and slumber while the conservatives regroup, wash their hands of this administration, and put up fresh faces to keep fighting th battle for the soul of America.

I would have been more assured that Plame-gate has made a substantial impact on the cons if I had not seen David Frum, and Jay Sekulow bragging on TV yesterday and pushing their agenda for a more radicalrightwing nominee like Rogers- Brown. I did not see the humility in them that signaled they had been caught out to be the scum that advocated this war in Iraq and the so-called cultural war at home.

Instead they acted like conquering hero's for getting Miers dumped.

We can't ever rest easy, the enemy is wiley and tenacious.

and Congress about reasons to go to war is.

See Cong. Maurice Hinchey's (D-NY) letter from 41 Congressmen about this:

http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/ny22_hinchey/morenews/091505fitzgeraldletter.html

Republicans would like you to think so, though.

Oh, and P.S., in case you missed the memo: Democrats "lose" because RW proprietary software counts our votes.

Nobody is stopping anyone from background organizing while others are "uselessly blogging and posting endlessly about scandals or rumors of scandals". We should note that blogs have been great about uncovering many of these scandals, or at least delving into them in a much deeper manner than they would have been covered by the MSM. Let's not sell these online discussions short. Communications amongst activists, and spreading information, are critical elements to democracy.

Also, we should not get thrown by what the Republicans/conservatives say about us. After all, we know full well that they are excellent at projection; that is, vis a vis Clinton, they chased after blind leads in blind alleys and so forth to go after him, and they made Clinton a very popular second term president.

Compare to today, where Bush's numbers are at Watergate-era lows.

I say "Keep up the Fitzmas talk"--as, at worst, it's good for needling the idiots of the right.

I'm sorry, but scandals are NOT good for any politician or political party. The Republican who said "conspiracy theories and scandals about Republicans are sometimes good - it makes Democrats chase after blind leads in blind alleys and completely wastes their time" is just prettying up the pig.

Not just you, I see it alot. Just because I'm following the developments of "Fitzmas" like a news junky and taking glee at every possible nugget of hope doesn't mean I'm also not working my tail off at the grass roots level.

I'm working my precinct as a Democratic precinct captain, attending candidate/campaign training seminars whenever I can, actively working on a county commission race, on the formation board for a local chapter of Americans United for Separation of Church and State.

What I do here in terms of salivating over blogs and becoming giddy or disheartened at DU threads is not the sum total of my being. I really wish some people would recognize that it is not only possible to have both an "online life" and a "real life" but probably extremely likely.

I'd bet there is more groundwork going on than you realize.

ETA: I in no way mean to sound snarky towards you at all. This is a fairly common accusation around here from time to time.

Number one it is not about bringing Republicans down it is about truth and justice.

Number two, this is an opinion of yours and nothing else.

Number three I once read and article that directly contradicts yours! lol...

Number four you are pushing your own agenda and trying to dictate the way people get active and get informed and thus distribute their energies in regard to their own agendas. It is transparent and quite frankly damaging to a party that is supposed to be full of free thinkers and non lock steppers. You will not cull more voters with the method and tone you have taken.

Number five this is all just my opinion and in this internet medium means nothing less or more than what you posted, all arrogance and Liberal baiting aside.

not that I don't think Dems need to clarify a strong ideal and find ways to get the message out, but all we've been ABLE to do for too long is yell about what we know, and wish that the word would get out.

Unfortunately, we've been hamstringed by mucho bazillionaires supporting organized groups of unethical operatives in govt, corporatists, church networks and media.

We couldn't get any messages out, and ugliness always packs a bigger, easy wallop than those upholding ethics.

Until the lies get big enough, the numbers of disgusted people get big enough, and the word travels far enough; then ethics become powerful.

Its a matter of timing, enough factors coming together to create a large enough whirlpool.

I hope the Dem party can use this anger positively. We as Americans have been purposefull lied to and played for fools. People don't like that, and we now need LEADERS to skillfully channel this well-earned anger for the gift it is--


I believe we DO have many people qualified and champing at the bit to do that. They've just been overwhelmed for the past 10 or more years constantly putting out the relentless cheating and brushfires thrown up by the thugs as smokescreens.

Now that Hillary's accurate statement "Vast RW Conspiracy" can no longer be smugly denied by the creeps, it should be rather easy to show how filthy little scandals that pukes thrive on are just that, and get on about our business of getting rid of these scum and rebuilding foundations.

To Unite, Clarify what we as a country stand for, and Act on strategies to strengthen and rework the laws/institutions that create a positive system.

without bloggers and activists prodding the media early. When the story "broke" it was not because of anything that happened, it was because the MSM were finally awaken from slumber that something had been happening. Ashcroft was forced to open an investigation, recuse, and we know the story from there. Without bloggers and activists, who knows when or if an investigation would have been opened.

Now, just because you weren't in on it in the beginning when this was happening, and because you look around and see others that were not either, that *are* simply typing and hyping - well, that's not our problem.

We helped break this story - we kept it alive when it could have died. And we are right to be excited about the results. Tomorrow we wake up and continue the fight. Those who would be distracted by blind alleys would not have produced anyways. So they can type away, for all I care.

You're getting knocked off your game by a couple Cassandra posters who are whining that the whole house of cards didn't come toppling down today. Grow up.

Or at least that is what the OP seems to suggest.

For those willing to get it, it's this: we might be spending a lot of time being entertained by this scandal, which will play itself out regardless of whether or not our eyes are glued to it, that could be spent doing some constructive and needed things. There is a lot of footwork involved in winning elections that we could channel our energy into.

We should be able to have a laugh among ourselves.

and I am working on the grass roots to defeat the R's

Send a check to Tim Kaine or Leslie Byrne
http://www.kaine2005.org/
http://www.lesliebyrne.org/

DU, AAR, blogging, are all great ways to be informed, rant and share a good laugh. But I would hope that all of us, to the best of our abilities, give generously of our time and money to the struggle at the local level. It's not as glamourous, but fundie Xtians, Rove and that entire cast of despicable characters know that the battle is at the grassroots, precinct level. Let's all strike a healthy balance between our keyboards and our neighborhoods.

The media is owned by the right and they refused to show the truth for years... but Fitzgerald doesn't care about public opinion and propaganda... he is looking at the FACTS we see daily here on DU, and that is why this is so exciting! Following blind leads is all part of justice, following blind is not.

NEVER forget we WON the last 2 elections, so dont give me that BS line of groundwork to win... try owning the voting machines, it makes up for a lack of actual support. This is another story the media wont investigate.. like everything else they wont investigate.... but look what happens were SOMEONE investigates! Wait till 06.. if we can overcome the fraud we will take the house and open investigations all over the place. I want justice, I want freedom of the press and freedom of speech and I am willing to fight for them... and I will rejoice at the fall of the enemies of the America I want to live in.

.. and as for ammo.. thats BS too... these assholes will fabricate info if they need it.. the propaganda is used to cover the lies and crimes!

But probably not a popular sentiment on DU at the moment.

Then WE come in and clean up the f*%king mess!!

Wake up to yourself. You're presumably not a gullible young Republican.

we all would be canvassing right now. and it would be helping.

where exactly was this article re the Republican training camp? I'd really like to know where it was published.

it sounds like typical Limbaughish propaganda that 'director' was using to Rove-up the troops ... think he might have been distorting things just a tad? ... telling 'em what they think they know? More hypocrisy from the Clenis brigade.

they certainly lack a sense of humor ... humor is a good thing ... it's positive and healing ... and human ...

The repugnicans' ten-year war to destroy the Clintons for NOTHING had the cumulative effect of convincing millions of Americans that the Clinton administration was corrupt. Ask an average person to tell you the number of indictments in the 8 Clinton years as compared with the 8 Reagan years and he'll probably say there were about 100 for Clinton and none for St. Reagan, when of course, just the opposite is true. What do you think brought about this state of affairs?

Your point and your examples are foolish.
"Fahrenheit 9-11" was a terrific documentary that rightfully won the top award at Cannes and showed moviegoers clearly what a duplicitous dope we have occupying the WH.
60 Minutes engaged in sloppy journalism, sure, but don't blame us Democrats for that ... and the cited document is probably GENUINE and not fraudulent.
Just because you don't enjoy the spectacle of hypocrite repug scandals for whatever reason, don't deny us who find them delicious. Any day a repug gets indicted is a good day for America, IMO.
IMPEACH BUSHCO!

Only problem Dems have with grassroots organizing in the past is lack of funds.