CAN PEOPLE PLEASE READ THE INDICTMENT

There is some really damning stuff in there. It also destroys some of the right-wing talking points. This is not over by a long shot. Who knows who will come forward with what.

Here it is, no excuses! http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5204684&mesg_id=5204684

FITZGERALD DID NOT SAY THE INVESTIGATION WAS OVER.

.

I agree 100%.
Stop listening to the TV pundits telling you what it says and what to think about what it says - go to the source!!!

the more I think about it.

Fitzgerald talked repeatedly about how he can't talk about anything he hasn't indicted on.

He also made the point that Libby's lies served to hinder his (Fitzgerald's) ability to pursue the truth of the issue.

Add in that, as of Monday, he's got a new Grand Jury to work with.

I think, bottom line - Fitzgerald's most definitely not finished. He's got more and he's continuing to gnaw on it. He's placed Libby in the hot seat and now gets to squeeze him. He doesn't have to deal with the artificial deadline of the expiring GJ hanging over his head. He also doesn't have to play "tell me more or I'll indict you".

Rather, he's now got the goods on Libby. Libby's looking at serious jail time. I'm sure Libby can read the tea leaves on sentencing guidelines and go "Oh shit". 30 years, even in a country club, is not going to be fun.

So, what happens next? I think Fitzgerald will strong-arm Libby with "now you get to tell me more and I get to think about talking to the judge about how you've turned State's evidence". Does anyone *really* think that Libby's going to be strong and hold his tongue? I'm guessing he's going to start singing like a canary now that Fitzgerald's got Libby's nuts in a vice.

Rove's not out of this. His status is "unchanged". That means that Libby gets to be used against Rove or Cheney or anyone else. Fitzgerald's not done. He doesn't have to be bound by the first GJ, so all that's really happened is that he's got an extension to keep going. But he's started pulling on one loose thread to get the entire conspiratorial tapestry to unravel.

Really worth the read if you have the time

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5211138

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Smoking Guns and Red Herrings

What Should We Expect Now that Fitzgerald Has Announced the Indictment of Lewis "Scooter" Libby? By Elizabeth de la Vega

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We should not expect a final resolution any time soon. Complex cases usually take years to proceed through the courts. In addition, the indictment released today describes a chronology of close to two years and a complicated set of facts. Obviously, Fitzgerald is taking a "big picture" approach to this case. This mirrors his approach to previous cases. In December 2003, for example, Fitzgerald announced the indictment of former Illinois Governor George Ryan on corruption charges in Operation Safe Road, which began in 1998. In that year, the investigation of a fatal accident revealed that truckers were purchasing commercial licenses from state officials. Indictments were announced in stages, culminating in the indictment of Ryan, who was the 66th defendant in the case. In the Libby case, the allegations suggest he was merely one of many officials -- including an unnamed Under Secretary of State and "Official A," a Senior White House Official -- who were involved in revealing classified information about Joseph Wilson's wife Valerie Plame. No other individuals are named as defendants, and they should not be considered so at this point, but the complexity of the indictment suggests that the investigation may follow a pattern similar to that used by Fitzgerald in the Illinois corruption case.

We should not expect to hear much more from Fitzgerald. The Special Counsel has been widely admired, and sometimes criticized, for his "tight-lipped" approach and "leak-free" grand jury investigation. But that, folks, is how it's supposed to be. Federal prosecutors are required to maintain grand jury secrecy. If they don't do that, they not only jeopardize their investigations, they could lose their jobs and/or be charged with a crime. The public has come to expect leaks from grand jury investigations because Independent Counsel Kenneth Starr, who was not a federal prosecutor, ignored secrecy rules during the investigation of President Clinton (and got away with it). Even after indictment, Department of Justice (DOJ) press guidelines permit release of only limited facts about the defendant, the charges against him, and court documents or testimony that may become public during the prosecution. Don't hold your breath waiting for Fitzgerald to explain evidence not alleged in the indictment; nor will he appear on talk shows to debate defense representatives.

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In many ways, that's one of the things that's making me think that this really is just the beginning - the punditry is falling all over themselves to explain how there's nothing else to do and it ends at Libby.

I won't believe that this is done until Fitzgerald folds up his tent, closes the investigation and heads home. Up until that happens, from what I've seen of him, I'm going to believe that he's still hard at work and continuing to tighten the screws.

again. Who is A and who is the "other person in the Office of the Vice President"?

I just read it and I find THAT sentence the
most captivating!
WHO was the other person on the email???
Hmmm?
Methinks CHENEY.
BHN

It drives me crazy when people are so negative that they spin virtually every single good thing so that it becomes something extraordinarily bad.

I am a very big cynic, but I also have to be optimistic about things.

The inevitable response from the defeatists is that they are realists and the rest of us are somehow delusional. Well, all this week the defeatists were screaming "NO INDICTMENTS, NO INDICTMENTS". Now that Cheney's chief of staff has been indicted for serious crimes, they screech, "NO MORE INDICTMENTS AND FURTHERMORE, LIBBY's GONNA WALK FREE. GAME OVER."

I sometimes wish the screeching defeatists would just take a deep breath and think about things once in a while. I don't suppose it will happen any time soon.

I say ominous because it CLEARLY says that
a particular email was sent to Libby AND another
person in the office...CHENEY, perhaps?
And does anyone have any doubt that
the indictment clearly reveals Cheney's involvement?
I mean, what, the people in Cheney's office were doing all
of this behind Cheney's back? Without his knowledge?
Don't think so.
I think the mighty Fitz is just getting started.
BHN

today when that reporter said how the repukes are trying to say this is "only" an obstruction/perjury charge that never should have happened (paraphrasing).

With chimpass praising him just a month ago, the repukes will be hard pressed in trashing him over his "talking point" assessment.

Maybe I am just being too much of an optimist but it almost seemed today that he was saying that just because certain persons were not mentioned in today's indictment doesn't mean they are off the hook or that they have not done wrong...