What do we know today that we didn't know Thursday?

We've all been watching for news stories, reading books and just plain guessing about the whole Plamegate affair for two years. Now, an indictment has come down that effectively blocks that information from us, maybe forever. Unlike most of you, I was very disappointed in the result of this investigation. No one was charged with leaking the name of a CIA undercover operative, and we're still in the dark. I don't think the indictment of Scooter merits more than a quick hurrah when compared with all the crimes that took place by Rove, Cheney and the compromised media. All now, we'll probably never know. I think the least we can do, after all this time and effort, is to petition Congress for an independent investigation. Otherwise, we'll have to be content with more dirty tricks from Karl Rove.

Who told you the investigation was over?

Not hardly.

Relax. Life goes on.

Alot of people on this board are saying that I'm being a partypooper, and that this is just the beginning of an investigation? I don't get it. Fitzgerald himself said yesterday that if it happened to come up, he's get a new grand jury, but he said not to put too much emphasis on that, because it was effectively over. Where will this investigation take place and who will lead it unless we get congress to at least attempt to get an independent investigation going? There won't even be a report on this whole thing . Fitzgerald let us know that yesterday, also. All he'll be doing now is finishing some paperwork. I wish I shared your optimism, but what is it founded on?

He left all avenues open, and said nothing about it being over.

You misinterpreted or misunderstood - or even misunderestimated - what was said, but the investigation is far from over. The indictment of Libby is just an opening salvo fired across the bow of the ship that carries those thugs currently squatting in the White House.

The law does not permit a report to be issued.

Why would you want to get Congress involved in this? There are so many more important matters at hand for our country. What you're seeking is nothing but a replay of the Ken Starr debacle, and we surely do not need that.

My "opinion" is hardly an opinion. It is the result of thirty years as a Washington attorney.

So, as I said, relax.

So live life. Enjoy.

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Remind me again to try to help.

You're welcome.

if you're in your fifties like me, you remember Watergate. There were several times during that investigation when I thought everything was over, and that Nixon and his minions would get away with it all (I was one who thought Nixon had a hand in the initial break-in from the get-go, btw, so for me, it was a loooong wait).

I'm not an attorney, just an office manager and retired elementary schoolteacher, so I don't have any expertise to back up my feelings. But, as indicated above, my gut instincts have been right in the past. But my sense about what Fitzgerald said was that he indicted Libby because he was trying to undo the cover up about the outing of Valerie Wilson. I got the impression that Fitzgerald is hoping this first indictment and the continuing investigation of Rove will cause somebody to come clean and that we'd find out who did the outing-and, more importantly, why.

Be prepared to be accused of being a mole because like me,you are disappointed.Must recapture congress and force hearings and not settle for"we must move on because it will be traumatic for the country".Someone must be held responsible for a change because too much blood and treasure has been lost on this illegal folly.

We know that a very intelligent man with an amazing drive for truth and justice is doing everything he can to get to the bottom of this. I really don't think that we could ask for more and I for one am feeling very fortunate and honored that Fitzgerald is on this case. We have to be patient and reassured that somebody competent is involved. Think about that. When was the last time we had someone this competent on our side? It's been a while.

Also, we have John Conyers. I believe that Congress will investigate this. This is the beginning. Simmer down, simmer down, and settle in for a long, long, ride. Hopefully about 2 years! ;)

No wonder we lose elections. We're too docile.

have a short attention span!

this is just the last scene in the first act of the opera. Remember, it isn't over until the fat lady sings. Candy Crowley hasn't even put her two cents in yet.

If you do, please tell me how you think that could happen. I'm dying here!

they've been neutered and are as tame as baby kittens. The investigation will continue with a new GJ and hopefully Libby will squeal when he decides that he doesn't want to spend the next 20 years of his life in the hoosegow.

I only mentioned Candy Crowley in jest (she's the only fat woman in the media that has presence) because I haven't heard her spin yet.

But now I do!

Bush terra speech, whereas before this mess, they would have pre-empted their biggest show in sweeps week to show it.

I know that the White House drug out their biggest cave-dweller, Cheney to give a speech as a diversion, and they relegated it to a silent box in the corner of the screen, while Fitzgerald got the big picture and the sound.

That, to me, was more important than any indictment. The Neocon's taking for granted that the MSM will always be their lapdog, and their free ticket to catapult the propaganda is over.

It is such a good day for our country. QUESTION AUTHORITY!!!!

But everybody else here seems to be willing to stop doing that and be happy with this piddly little victory. Doesn't anybody realize that by indicting Libby, the truth will NOT come out? Doesn't anybody realize that by NOT ISSUING A REPORT, our right to know has been completely ignored? What do you REALLY think will happen now? IF we accept this as it is, we may as well tell Bush and Rove to just go right ahead and continue doing what they were doing. They got away with it. You don't think that emboldens them? I want the truth and I'm appalled that so many of us are getting crumbs and saying "Thank you, sir".

There is no provision for the special prosecutor to issue a report. In fact, he'd have to get the court's approval to do so, and that would never be forthcoming.

You are not reading the events correctly, and, consequently, leaping to ill-founded and erroneous conclusions. You obviously are upset by the indictment yesterday, and don't seem to grasp that it was just one indictment, that the investigation continues, and that the judicial process is a tried and true one that will lead where it will lead, regardless of your angst or protestations.

And, if it ends without other indictments, that's how it will end. Not everyone gets the conclusion they wish for.

But, you really are demonstrating a lack of understanding of what's gone on, so I suggest you read a few summaries of the matter. Your assertion that "They got away with it" leaves me baffled, since no one knows who "They" are and no one knows what "They" got away with.

Your agita will be soothed by knowledge and correct information, always the best medicine.

The fast food generation expect results a la one hour of Law and Order.
Watching this unfold is more like watching all stages in the preparation of a five course dinner.

You're dead right on about that, aren't you? I'm used to the seemingly glacial pace that seems to define judicial proceedings, and, if you're not familiar with it - or, if you're used to instant gratification of the most superficial kind - it would seem confusing.

Thanks for the enlightenment.

And, yes, that dining metaphor is just perfect. Whatever happens, we're watching our Constitution at work, and it's art.

We need some enlightenment!

cheers

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5217386

You sound like the DLC. Don't dare ask for more than they're willing to give you--don't make waves, don't rock the boat. Just sit back and take it, and maybe, if we pray REALLY HARD, God will throw us another crumb. NOT GOOD ENOUGH. I'm not trying to be a "popular" poster. I don't care if all the "cool kids" like me. I'm just telling it the way it is. By the way, there IS a provision about issuing a final report. I read, too.

There is no provision for a final report. Whatever you read, you either read it wrong, or you read the wrong thing.

Tell you what - why don't you get busy writing to Patrick Fitzgerald and to the Attorney General and to the presiding judge and tell them how they're doing it all wrong, that you know better how it should be done, and that you're ready, willing, and able to show them, those poor, unenlightened and enfeebled souls, how to do it correctly.

After that, you ought to get a hefty book contract and write a best-seller about how you were able to set the American system of jurisprudence straight, and, as an afterthought, saved the Republic.

Actually, it sounds to me like you've got some massive issues that have nothing to do with current events.

Thank heavens for the "Ignore" feature.

You're welcome.

Just this morning I've been signing petitions that will go to Congress about doing an investigation on the whole road to war. Tomorrow I go to a local activist's meeting so we can discuss what has happened and decide what to do next. Probably Monday I'll make a call to my local conman (a repuke) about this whole mess and demanding an investigation.

What are you going to do?

Despite much of the dismissive spin we are hearing from the right wing and much of the media, I believe Fitzgerald laid to rest any doubts about the merits of this investigation and the Wilsons' credibility by stating there was a serious breach of national trust and damage to America. He emphasized that even though more serious charges were not handed down yesterday, the nature of the indictments should not be considered a vindication and he emphasized the seriousness of the wrongdoing. He made it clear that vitally important questions have not yet been answered because White House obstruction prevented the truth from being discovered.

He doesn't consider the case closed and neither should we.

A DUer found it yesterday . . . Really worth the read if you have the time

ON EDIT LINK: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5211138

<snip>

Smoking Guns and Red Herrings

What Should We Expect Now that Fitzgerald Has Announced the Indictment of Lewis "Scooter" Libby? By Elizabeth de la Vega

<snip>

<snip>
We should not expect a final resolution any time soon --. Complex cases usually take years to proceed through the courts. In addition, the indictment released today describes a chronology of close to two years and a complicated set of facts. Obviously, Fitzgerald is taking a "big picture" approach to this case. This mirrors his approach to previous cases. In December 2003, for example, Fitzgerald announced the indictment of former Illinois Governor George Ryan on corruption charges in Operation Safe Road, which began in 1998. In that year, the investigation of a fatal accident revealed that truckers were purchasing commercial licenses from state officials. Indictments were announced in stages, culminating in the indictment of Ryan, who was the 66th defendant in the case. In the Libby case, the allegations suggest he was merely one of many officials -- including an unnamed Under Secretary of State and "Official A," a Senior White House Official -- who were involved in revealing classified information about Joseph Wilson's wife Valerie Plame. No other individuals are named as defendants, and they should not be considered so at this point, but the complexity of the indictment suggests that the investigation may follow a pattern similar to that used by Fitzgerald in the Illinois corruption case.

We should not expect to hear much more from Fitzgerald -- The Special Counsel has been widely admired, and sometimes criticized, for his "tight-lipped" approach and "leak-free" grand jury investigation. But that, folks, is how it's supposed to be. Federal prosecutors are required to maintain grand jury secrecy. If they don't do that, they not only jeopardize their investigations, they could lose their jobs and/or be charged with a crime. The public has come to expect leaks from grand jury investigations because Independent Counsel Kenneth Starr, who was not a federal prosecutor, ignored secrecy rules during the investigation of President Clinton (and got away with it). Even after indictment, Department of Justice (DOJ) press guidelines permit release of only limited facts about the defendant, the charges against him, and court documents or testimony that may become public during the prosecution. Don't hold your breath waiting for Fitzgerald to explain evidence not alleged in the indictment; nor will he appear on talk shows to debate defense representatives.

<snip>

How depressing. I lived through the Iran-Contra hearings. Oliver North now is a millionaire. He was rewarded for his crimes, like many others. This is deja vu. I just want people to face reality and recognize that something more has to be done by people like US!

why are you wasting time sitting here?

Fitz made it perfectly clear that this is an ongoing process, and I would be willing to bet that more indictments are coming.

That said, I understand your frustration. I was hoping for more, but I'm realistic. When you are dealing with the judicial process, you need to be patient.

Look at it this way, maybe the leaker will turn out to be Cheney,and maybe this will come out just before the 06 elections...........

Fitz is smart. He isn't finished by a long shot.

This one a piece by a criminal lawyer:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5217478

and he would rather go to jail than reveal the source of the Plame leak.