Pardons ain't gonna happen.....

I recently posted this to an earlier thread but think it might deserve it's own....Bush can pardon no one and this is why...I break the republicans into 4 groups in this manner...1.fundies,2.centrists,3.neocons,4.uber-rich and corporatists...All of the first three groups are, well, pissed off AND with good reason..if you belong to group 1,he has failed to bring a nominee for the supreme court that will overturn Rowe vs Wade...if group 2 he has failed in terms of reducing government and cutting spending....and if group 3, he is no longer useful (political capital spent,plus Liar,Liar,pants a on fire syndrom)...4.the rich and corporatists are "well satisfied" with thou good and faithful servant...in short, 3 out of 4 of his support legs are PISSED and with good reason...ALL suffer buyer's remorse and the only ones with the slightest hope of recouping their investment are the fundies IF they can force him to an anti-abortion judicial pick.So the best that can be hoped for is support from half of his base, the rich and the fundies who themselves disagree on abortion..in short, pardons could be the tipping point for impeachment,fundies and the rich will hang in because they have nothing to lose...the fundies know the next republican president or supreme court appointment may be many years away-for them it is now or (almost) never and the rich, always realistic realize it don't get any better than this..with that kind of money, a Bush only comes along once a century and you hope instead that democratic roll backs will not be so tough...they've already won big...As to pardons-half his base would love to wipe the slate clean and mark it as an aberration, but it is not....it is merely what they espouse, taken to an extreme..

Look at Kentucky - the gov is down to 17% approval, there are new indictments after the pardons and now the pardoned witnesses can't hold back testimony.

They have control of the voting machines. Unless and until the Dems expose this fact and take some control back over the vote count, we will never win again.

And Libby will be pardoned.

Pardons has been SO debunked so many times on these forums.

Pardons will lead the country directly to impeachment, or directly to Hell. All of Chimp's advisors are telling him to stay the fuck away from the pardon pen.

And before they could control the vote count.

The Reps have nothing to fear come election day. They aren't going to impeach Dubya, they have no worries that their constituents have any power.

I would love to be wrong. Can you please give me some links to other threads where the pardon idea has been so thoroughly debunked? I'm always interested in more information.

I would love to be wrong.

I pray that you are because if * is successful in pardoning these bums without being held accountable in the most severe sense of the word, there's going to be bloody hell to pay for it. Kiss this republic good-bye.

I really want to read how people are debunking the certainty (in my opinion) that any indicted person will be pardoned by the latest public face of BFEE.

Links to those threads? I am serious.

Cause it IS bloody hell. And I am really afraid the republic is already shredded and I would be really interested in anyone, or any thread, or any idea, that can prove me wrong.

Until I hear/read something compelling about the pardons in this post-2000/2004 election age, I stand by my belief.

Bush could care less about the politics of pardoning Libby. If he doesn't issue a pardon, then Libby will be forced to testify at trial which could result in proving Cheney was involved in the crime. Bush has a choice: he can either piss off most of Americans by pardoning Libby OR he can avoid pardoning Libby which would result in an ugly trial.

I'm absolutely convinced Libby will be pardoned. DUers are way too happy about yesterday's developments. But it's fun celebrating it anyway. Merry Fitzmas!!!

They know they have future elections wrapped up. They don't have to worry about any of us.

Protecting BFEE trumps all and with Diebold neatly in hand, well it's a big "fuck you!" to Joe Sixpack.

Don't get me wrong, I am celebrating also - it's a good thing Fitz is out there throwing the punches but I'm afraid I agree with the Wookie, in the end, he/we won't really ever get anywhere on this.

By then, it will be too late. He may pardon him anyway but it will be after either a plea or a trial.

I believe Libby will plead guilty to the charges, thereby making it impossible to have a trial. After he pleads guilty, he could be sent to prison and, after the 2006 elections, Bush will pardon him. So, Libby will spend less than 6 to 8 months in prison. I believe this was the plan discussed by the Bush cabal. Libby knows he'll be pardoned. I also believe that Fitz made this possible by not charging more people with crimes and conspiracy. I'm really disappointed in him.

Same thought.

Great minds think alike, eh?

You must be my long lost twin! :D

(shrug).

Libby may or may not spend a day or two in jail, but BFEE will be protected I believe.

...before or after the trial.

Politically, he'd like to wait. Until right after the 2006 election, if Republicans retain control, or drag out the trial until right after the 2008 election, if not.

That timing allows him, like his fathers pre-trial pardon of Caspar Weinberger, to avoid the fallout from such a blatantly self-serving act.

I would be very surprised for this ever to actually come to trial.

before there is anything to pardon them for! You're saying * could pardon him for being indicted? That doesn't make sense. Please post a link to help explain what you mean.

Feel free to look it up. :-)

http://www.nytimes.com/books/97/06/29/reviews/iran-pardon.html#1

Statement by Lawrence Walsh

Following is a statement by the independent counsel, Lawrence E. Walsh, regarding pardons granted today by President Bush.
President Bush's pardon of Caspar Weinberger and other Iran-contra defendants undermines the principle that no man is above the law. It demonstrates that powerful people with powerful allies can commit serious crimes in high office -- deliberately abusing the public trust without consequence.

Weinberger, who faced four felony charges, deserved to be tried by a jury of citizens. Although it is the President's prerogative to grant pardons, it is every American's right that the criminal justice system be administered fairly, regardless of a person's rank and connections.

The Iran-contra cover-up, which has continued for more than six years, has now been completed with the pardon of Caspar Weinberger. We will make a full report on our findings to Congress and the public describing the details and extent of this cover-up.

Weinberger's early and deliberate decision to conceal and withhold extensive contemporaneous notes of the Iran-contra matter radically altered the official investigations and possibly forestalled timely impeachment proceedings against President Reagan and other officials. Weinberger's notes contain evidence of a conspiracy among the highest-ranking Reagan Administration officials to lie to Congress and the American public. Because the notes were withheld from investigators for years, many of the leads were impossible to follow, key witnesses had purportedly forgotten what was said and done, and statutes of limitation had expired.

Weinberger's concealment of notes is part of a disturbing pattern of deception and obstruction that permeated the highest levels of the Reagan and Bush Administrations. This office was informed only within the past two weeks, on December 11, 1992, that President Bush had failed to produce to investigators his own highly relevant contemporaneous notes, despite repeated requests for such documents. The production of these notes is still ongoing and will lead to appropriate action. In light of President Bush's own misconduct, we are gravely concerned about his decision to pardon others who lied to Congress and obstructed official investigations.

Just change the names, and we'll be reading this all over again in December 2006.

for any reason except impeachment. And, as Libby is not being impeached but brought up on criminal charges, and Junior decidedly does NOT want the corruption of his administration revealed during a trial, Libby will be pardoned. COUNT ON IT.

Bush could pardon this cabal the very day after they are convicted. That's the sad part of this affair: no matter how heinous their crimes, these bastards will never do time or pay for them.

More likely, they will have cushy jobs at Halliburton, Bechtel, or as pundits for Fox News.

:shrug:

He can pardon them before they come to trial.

pardoned, they may very well have to watch their backs for the remainder of their days. People will only take just so much abuse. If the elections are stolen, and the courts are not available in any meaningful way, the people will do what they feel needs to be done.

before he leaves because he will have nothing to lose. If he and Cheney cut some kind of deal with Libby to keep his mouth shut. He WILL do it so he does not get prosecuted himself.

Could it happen? Some of our guys in Washington seemed worried it might, and it looks like they're trying to head it off.

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/1153