More cheery news about H5N1...............

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20051103/hl_afp/healthfluindonesia_051103170805;_ylt=AmUG7JvVzGg0HKl.ADHz3yaTvyIi;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

Not sure if this link will work. Story on Yahoo News about Avian Influenza suspected in 3 children in Indonesia who has close contact with a woman who is believed to have died of it very recently. Story is dated today.

Especially if the woman was suspected of having died from bird flu.

I don't know the family situation, but I wouldn't be surprised to fing that they weren't wealthy...

children caught H5N1 from the mother??? (if it is, in fact, H5N1)

Oh, that's right. "Only the Little People will get Avian Flu". Or, what the heck do you expect with those ignorant poor folks?

:sarcasm:

If a woman is suspected of dying of bird flu, wouldn't it be prudent to caution and/or examine her family?

if the woman was sick and in a very public hospital they would be following this up... in fact, in the third world, having worked there, getting infectious disease compliance from PRIVATE hospitals at times is harder than pulling teeth.

Something about social stigmas... I do hope the little ones don't have it.

I think it's universally recognized that the poor (wherever they may be in the world) don't receive the same level of medical care as the wealthy.

Jakarta's population has a significant percentage of economically disadvantaged people.

By extention, it's not difficult (for me) to believe that a child in Jakarta might receive inferior medical care.


WTF is your problem with this statement (all of you)?

Instead of the government officials?

Someone has a problem with prejudice, alright.

wealthy?

My statement was that they don't.

Anything else you've implied from my post is a misunderstanding.

Is it?

1.- The poor get inferior care whether this is the developing world or the United States.

2.- When it comes to public health private hospitals DO HIDE any case that may mean social stigma.... been there done that, patient has AIDS doctor...

no he does not, just a blood disease.

But, but... we should take precautions

Family cannot let this one out....

Now think about bird flu in this context ok... but public health officials don't have that problem...

Doctor patient has aids...

You will not put that on the record

Yeah, watch me.

Been to that dance, have you?

so if the kids got sick THEY wouldn't have been suspects until even later.

This is one of the problems with flu - you walk around spreading it to others before you are sick enough to realize you have it. That's why it's spread is unstoppable. When have we EVER stopped an epidemic of "normal" flu? Never. It just gives and keeps on giving.

The kids have symptoms LIKE bird flu symptoms.

We have no idea what their contact history with the woman who died or infected birds was.


My father is in the field and is concerned about H5N1. After reading more about it, so am I. I'm not blowing this off, but the story is WAY too inspecific to get worked up about it.

"We have no idea what their contact history with the woman who died or infected birds was."

The story states in plain English that the 10-month-old girl is the woman's daughter, and the two boys are her nephews. I am not sure about your neck of the woods, but in mine that infers close contact.

Thru feces?

Did they play in an area where infected birds had been?

What was their contact with the infected woman during the incubation period (yes, I'm talking more about the nephews than the daughter)?


I'm actually a member of the choir here, but there are not enough specifics in that article to prove human to human transmission.

because it is a suspicious case that COULD prove to be p2p spread.

Get off that high horse.

a) that we don't know yet that these kids have avian flu, and

b) even if it turns out to be so, there's nothing yet to suggest that they caught it directly from their mother/aunt. It may turn out that all three of them had contact with infected birds themselves.

have caught a respiratory infection from her mother.

Excuse me for not understanding about how respiratory viruses spread among people(and here's a hint, it ain't feces).

Yeah, Kestrel's just beside herself.
:eyes:

my neighborhood screaming and pulling my hair out and foaming at the mouth.

Sheesh. I try to give folks a head up so we can be well-informed, and maybe be the first on the block to know about the emergence of a real live pandemic, cause that would be a once-in-a-lifetime event. And as a microbiologist and veterinarian I have considerable scientific interest in the whole deal. But some guy accuses me of getting worked up.

Well, NOW I AM. :mad: :grr:

I said that for ME the article didn't provide enough detail for me to get worked up about it. I said absolutely NOTHING about you or your reaction to the story.


:wtf:

been on top of this for some years now

I said that I wasn't getting worked up about it based on this article.

You're awful heavy handed with the questions, aren't you?

Unless you have a problem with posters who are determined to debunk rumours and misinformation, you're barking up the wrong tree.

Perhaps it's just that you misunderstood?

And your inference that Kestrel was citing p2p transmission.

I posted that the article didn't give many details ans, as such, wasn't saying anything new. I then stated that I wasn't getting worked up about it based on the scant details (especially since it hadn't even been confirmed that the children had H5N1).

That's honestly all I meant and I've attempted to explain that repeatedly. Hell, I've even posted on my concern about this virus (you, too, have a star...check my post history).

If that doesn't placate you, I really don't care.

That's why I was surprised at your reply to Kestrel.

Perhaps you didn't mean to come off as preachy, but you should realize as much as anyone how tone can be misinterpreted.

I took offense because she has been working her ass off trying to educate people about this and I didn't appreciate what I thought was an inferred accusation.

and it does not help when even talk show hosts bring out the tinfoil!

I said:

1) "The kids have symptoms LIKE bird flu symptoms."

2) "We have no idea what their contact history with the woman who died or infected birds was."

3) "My father is in the field and is concerned about H5N1. After reading more about it, so am I. I'm not blowing this off, but the story is WAY too inspecific to get worked up about it."


#1 is true...they have NOT been diagnosed with the virus.

#2 is true...they could have had contact with infected birds, or their blood or feces which would provide an alternate method of transmission.

#3 you're going to have to take my word and my post history for...



Why the hell are you so pissed off at what I posted?

I told you I misread your tone.

Have you been reading my posts?

You sure seemed worked up before. I'm glad that's changed.

Who have I "gnawed" at?

take five you two

;-)

we are on the same side!

I applaud scottie and Kestrel's dedication.

:thumbsup:

and remember with some of the tin foil hatters round these parts that are convinced this is a BFEE plan... we all shall have some more entertainment

You haven't seen me worked up, dah-ling.

Just ask the Minute Men apologists and assorted conspiroids.

To name just two of the groups I regularly persecute...

:evilgrin:

I'd hate to see how you'd treat somebody who actually disagreed with you.

:evilgrin: I'm gonna have to go get the valium if you don't stop this.

I was informed by a coworker that surgery can spread cancer.

:banghead:

you think my doctor will find the humor in it? I mean she was lauging hard when we both started jocking bout them viagra commercials and women asking for it... for themselves, which has happned to her.

It's amazing how many people still believe it.

cancer, to cut a large enough margin that we are not dragging cancer cells through healthy tissue, seeding them in fresh ground.

They believe that opening someone up actually causes the cancer to spread.

In other words, they didn't know how bad it was until the surgeon opened them up.

Therefore, the surgery caused it.

that is why I find it commical....

Living here is going to kill me.

years nor will anybody will be able to survive them!

(A bad paraphrase of a spanish saying)

that has snake handler churches.

my condolencces, so when they are bitten they should not get antivenim... I mean the lord god should save them.

didn't have faith.

Oh, and some of them drink poison, too.

Sammy Hagar wrote a song called "Salvation on Sand Hill" about the snake handlers on Sand Mountain who tell their kids if they believe, they won't get bitten.

have your snakes byte the whole congregation, show them just how little faith they have....

I know it is not funny, and I would not ever wish that to people... but there are days

I can't help it, it's inherited.

gallows all they way

To survive with any of your sanity intact.

for your APOLOGY.

Where was he when we were trying to take on all of the tinfoil nutters who claimed it was either a hoax or it was being spread by the BFEE?

While you're doing that, you can step off that soapbox.

I'm beginning to understand why people react negatively to concern about this, though...

I need to remember to use more smilies.

When you attack me for overreacting, you just SOUND like one of the naysayers, even if you aren't really one. Every attempt to inform the folks here about news of H5N1 is invariably met with accusations of fearmongering and hysteria, just like yours. So you can of course understand why people misread your noble intentions.

However my problem wasn't checking my sense of humor at the door, it was checking by bulletproof vest.

My father IS in the immunology field and I DO have concerns about this virus (as my post history will show). You and scottie, however, jumped on me for stating how I was reacting to this article and CONTINUED to attack even after I tried to clear up any misunderstandings. Forgive me for not having a sense of humar about that.

Puh-leeze.

Such a lightweight for a veteran of the MIHOP wars.

:spank:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=125&topic_id=51405#51434


Gee, and I'm not even disagreeing with you....

Back! BMUS screams as she wields a science textbook like a bible!

I REALLY took offense at that and it wasn't even directed at me.

"swallowing everything that is presented to (them) on a silver spoon by officials instead of thinking for (themselves)"

Aye yi yi.

The only defense of the logic impaired.

I have got a bit touchy about this subject. I no longer suffer fools. I mistook you for one.

I'm a pretty straightfoward person. Unless I'm being intentionally sarcastic, I mean exactly what I say.

Sorry if that caused some confusion. I really did mean exactly what I posted (and ONLY what I posted...nothing to read into).

It could be that the kids were also around infected birds that spread the disease to the mother/aunt. It's important to follow this story so we know for sure, though.

If a pandemic comes, I'm certainly not ready. I'm not even sure how to be ready except to order Tamiflu and part of me suspects that the recent hype is to drive up stock prices for the makers of the medicine. :shrug: I'm so skeptical that I even wonder how effective the drug is.

The only thing I could do is limit forays into town, wear a mask, gloves, etc. Wash my hands a billion times a day. What else is there to do?

You're doing everything that you can do, and keeping yourself informed is very important.

And I do believe washing your hands is the best defense against any flu.

minimizing contact with others, face masks, these are all what is going to save our bacon if we have a pandemic.

The vaccine may or may not work, and a better one may or maynot come in time to help.

Tamiflu may or may not prove effective, but everybody is going to use up their allotment of it the very second someone sneezes or coughs on them, even if it's the common cold, and they will run out of the drug by the time the real thing comes knocking.

Basic hygiene cannot be bought or sold, and the knowledge of it is available to every human being.

It could be as simple as the entire family being in the vicinity of poultry infected with the disease.

If you don't lynch Jersey Devil right now, I'm going to start taking this personally!

:)

the issues. It beats the "we don't know anything" and "you're making mountains out of molehills" memes that get implied or stated far too often........

I have to ask-what's the biggie? One way or another, Nature will allievate human overpopulation. I'm not being pessimistic, just rational. I don't want to die anymore than y'all, but, let's face it, Nature isn't always kind.

And as much as I enjoy the Darwin Awards, ignorance of health issues is a danger to every one in the community, not just the stupid ones.

I'm all in favor of public health procedures. My point is that when Nature(or God, whatever) sees that any species can't support itself on the available resources, that species will be culled. Sorry if you think I'm stupid. I may be a truck driver, but I have a BS in biology, just chose not to use it.

Hoo boy.

First, I was referring to the people who don't "believe" in vaccinations or health care preventatives, not you.

Second, I believe that the planet cannot sustain this many of any species, but I prefer to use education to thin the herd, not "survival of the fittest" (the fittest being, of course, the rich and the powerful).

Sorry for the misunderstanding, I should have clarified.

Been a long day. Perhaps I was a bit oversensitive. Comes with the territory in my line of work:rofl:

Really?

:-)

and they want to make your day even longer and far less safer!

The company I work with vigorously complies with USDOT regulations. I may get a bit, uh, silly, at times, but you won't see my rig in an accident that was my fault. I'll ALWAYS be safe.....ALWAYS. No matter company policy or Fed Regs.

from a liberal trucker.

:toast:

Once.

He sure wasn't from around here.

Are there many like you?