To all the Kerry-bashers: The primary election theft mechanism was

manipulation of public opinion via FOX, etc. prior to the election..... not disenfranchisement & EV hacks. A much bigger problem, and probably not illegal. Check this from the eve of the election.

October 23, 2004
PIPA Report: Bush Supporters Hold False Beliefs

The latest Program on International Policy Attitudes (PIPA) report shows startling results, unless you've spent the last ten months of your life monitoring the FOX News Network as we have. The report reveals that even now, after overwhelming evidence to the contrary, the report finds that Bush supporters "still believe Iraq had WMD or a major weapons program, actively supported al Qaeda and misperceive world public as not opposed to Iraq War. In addition, they AGREE with most Kerry supporters that the Bush administration is still saying that Saddam Hussein had links to Al Qaeda and had WMDs. Amazingly, the average Bush supporter believes that the US should NOT have gone to war if there was no evidence of WMD or links to Al Qaeda.

(Begin excerpt.) Even after the final report of Charles Duelfer to Congress saying that Iraq did not have a significant WMD program, 72% of Bush supporters continue to believe that Iraq had actual WMD (47%) or a major program for developing them (25%). Fifty-six percent assume that most experts believe Iraq had actual WMD and 57% also assume, incorrectly, that Duelfer concluded Iraq had at least a major WMD program. Kerry supporters hold opposite beliefs on all these points.

Similarly, 75% of Bush supporters continue to believe that Iraq was providing substantial support to al Qaeda, and 63% believe that clear evidence of this support has been found. Sixty percent of Bush supporters assume that this is also the conclusion of most experts, and 55% assume, incorrectly, that this was the conclusion of the 9/11 Commission. Here again, large majorities of Kerry supporters have exactly opposite perceptions.

http://www.newshounds.us/2004/10/23/pipa_report_bush_supporters_hold_false_beliefs.php

Source PDF: http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Iraq/IraqRealities_Oct04/IraqRealities%20Oct04%20pr.pdf

and they make up 53% of the country (at least last election they did) it's the half witted stupid fucks who refused to vote for Kerry cause he "threw all his medals away and that makes him a traitor!!" (nevermind that he didn't do that and even if he did it would've been his right being that HE earned them and not anyone else)

Then you got the religious dopes who preach thank you jesus!! thank you jesus!!! the queers shall be stopped I will get a bigger house with my non existant taxcuts thank you jesus!!!

But you know what when it comes to the religious whackjobs althought he fundie xtians are the biggest base of * supporters all the conservative jews and muslims who voted for * out there you're just as fucked up and deserving of a verbal smackdown as any fundie pat robertson cult member.

I am so sick of people mentioning the "Book".

It's an old compilation of re-written history from 5,000 years ago, 2005 years ago, and the newest about 1400 years ago.

It's a nice guideline to some values, but to believe it word for word - and then selectively remove bits like animal sacrifice and slavery is so obviously manipulative.

It is the opiate of the people.

Maybe it is because they have Faux News on in the Teachers Lounge????

That's one that everyone should watch.

because Iraq caused 9/11. He was VERY surprised when I said there was no connection. You have to understand, that clip was played over and over for months, and when the news media refuted it, it was played once, maybe twice. This is why the average person voted for Bush, and nothing else. Even if they liked Kerry better, you don't change horses in mid-stream, and you don't change presidents in war.

zalinda

He actually admitted he liked Kerry better, but you just don't change presidents in wartime.


What a great precedent; poll numbers down? start a war! they won't vote you out then!

the most simple truths.

In fact, they usually AMPLIFIED The lies so the truth could never breakthrough.

--BlueEyedSon, 2004

that these were lies. There were enough reputable people in the state department, and even under the bush I administration who said there were no WMDs

The Democrats cannot do anything about people's stupidity, but they can get the message out and fight.

A perfect example is Paul Hackett. He calls it as he sees it, and is not afraid of being politically incorrect.

You have to stand up to these criminals or you will lose.

It was amazing what Harry Reid did last week forcing a closed session about the Iraq situation, and the lies and misinformation they were fed. The only problem was, why it wasn't done sooner.

that he decided to make his war record part of the campaign by announcing it at the convention, and then when the swift pukes went to attack him, he waited two months before he defended it, and even then it was a very weak defense.

He should NOT have brought up his Nam experience unless he wanted to defend it.

safe. elect democrat you will die

yet

you suggest he should not use his military experience

i am thinking if he didnt, you would say, he should have tackled this propoganda bullshit by talking about his military experience

but hey, that was another tweety jump on kerry's ass talking point. see all kerry fault these lyin swiftboat. we know they are lyin but the get to, because kerry is using military experience

then there is a whole nother story with swift boat out in aug, kerry can get no more money, bush breaking law taking convention to sept adn still getting money and no one says anything, but giggles at how bush outmanuvered kerry

What I said is he should not have used it unless he planned to defend it.

He didn't bother to defend his Viet Nam record until months went by with those accusations just hanging there, and then his defense was weak at best.

I gave a hell of a lot time and MONEY for assurances that he didn't live up to. He said that there was nothing to worry about with the voting process, and his people had it all under control? He said he would fight after the vote, and then just conceded.

The Democratic party needs fighters, like Dean, Boxer, Hackett, Kucinich, and others, who are NOT afraid of talking truth to power

take the strength of opponent and make it their weakness, and the weakness of his candidate, make it his strength. so where bush failed in military, ah look the story we got to see, bush the war president, adn kerry, with military experience......

we now say he shouldnt have used his strength.

damn rove can manipulate our people so. and his people, rove just laughs at how easy it is to manipulate his fellow repug. they laugh and laugh

get real.

If you are accussed of something which isn't true and you don't defend it immediately, and weeks go by, what do you think people are going to believe?

If you are NOT going to do that, then don't bring it up. By bringing it up he made it a campaign issue, which by the way it should NOT have been. Nevertheless, bringing it up means you should be willing to defend it or accept the consequences

he should have immediately stood up and defended himself. he kicks himself in the ass that he did NOT do it. i kinda respect that, but i also see the bullshit in it.

can you see the bullshit in it?

march swiftboat put this out. it was advertised and promoted, this swiftboat conference. it came out. put it on all the news channels, and people said wtf. bullshit to this story adn it died that afternoon. no traction. none. nada , zip. failed

aug,..... kerry had convention could collect no more money. bush held convention to sept breaking election laws, with no repercussion. he was able to continue collecting money. kerry couldnt spend for a month. everyone was aware.

this came out

it was thought it had already been done, in march. not a to do.

guess, media took it and ran. tweety said, hey we know it is bullshit but kerry shouldnt have gone on his military record. fair game.

lie away swift boats

and kerry says, wtf..... fuck i should have jumped right in

now this deserves crusifixion of kerry? i ask you. can we be a little reasonable here? does this make kerry evil, his whole campaign worthless, regardless having won, ..... with the swiftboating

i just think the people on this board are being unreasonable. and not honest

but the Democrats better learn from their mistakes. 2006 is critical, and more important than 2008, because it can put a stop to the insanity that this administration has inflicted on us and the world

then why didn't he defend his record?

A charge left unchallenged is true

He actually should have sued the bastards after the election, or never even brought up his record

Sorry but if you bring up your war record as part of the campaign, and don't defend a challenge to it, what do you think will happen?

or

1. TV cherry picked worst Kerry soundbites and best Bush soundbites
2. TV showed video of Kerry speaking while some anchor "summarized" (inaccurately) what Kerry was saying. Then showed clips of Bush talking and mischaracterizing Kerry. And Bush's BS characterizations of "my op-pon-ent" were allowed to stand as gospel truth.

His efforts were labelled as brash instead of honest.

If Hackett proved a real danger to BushInc, itself, would you expect the media to edit his campaign even further than they did?

He defended it. He didn't wait weeks to talk about it, and effectly he was successful

the democrats better learn and quickly that you can't just win assuming that scandels and lies will bring your opponent down, you have to stand for something

BushInc they would have spared no expense tearing him down even more and the national media would have ramped up the lies against him.

Until we have a machine that can counter their machine on any significant level, no individual can battle it on their own.

Cripe, it took a category 5 hurricane to bring the people this far because the media ran up against pictures that were unspinnable.

spend there time on as they continued around the states campaigning in a positive manner, their plan...... that media and repugs continually said they didnt have. even dems on this board would say kerry doesnt have a plan. as i heard the plan over and over. and media and peopleon this board would say how boring kerry was talking about the same plan over and over and over adn he needed talking points. i mean wtf......

the swift pukes started attacking him, and he didn't defend himself until it was too late

so it all boils down to kerry piece of shit because he didnt defend himself over an outrageous lie, that the media knew was a lie, the repugs knew it was a lie, that military knew it was a lie, that ALL of us knew it was a lie

wow
k

if you are not for yourself, who will be for you?

a charge left unchallenged is true?

peace

just one of the first ones. he met challenge after challenge. the most ridiculous, the one that didnt fly, the stupidest, he didnt challenge soon enough. he owns the mistake. but be assured a lot f time was wasted for this campaign in all the many ridiculous challneges repugs and bushco and media put out, like not being christian, or having family value, or not supporting military, or what are the zillion others

now lets see, the not challenged become reality. look at bush campaign, all the truths put out about him, TRUTHS that bush ignored, did not challenge, and how they didnt become reality for him

keep perspective in the outrageous of this time

kerry is merely one human being, person

we need to adapt, that is all I am saying

I don't really have an argument on anything you have said

Kerry could have ramped up his machine to deny the lies, but would it have gotten any coverage? Even with ALL the stuff that was thrown at Kerry, he still managed to win, or if you want to believe the "official" vote, he got damn close. No real media, well financed lie campaign against him, an incumbent AND a war president, give me a break, he did a damn good job. Even the big dog would have a hard time against that.

zalinda

that is the only thing the so-called media we have in this country was covering

If he would have responded as he did in his winter soldier speach, this would NOT have even been an issue

I hate having to remind allegedly intelligent, informed DEMOCRATS of this sad fact, a problem it is beyond one person, especially a person like Kerry, to magically fix. I also hate having to point out to people that had Kerry "stood up" and "shouted" about election fraud on November 3rd, the obvious strategy the media had planned was to turn Ohio and other states into a hate-fest of Bush-loving nut-jobs, smear Kerry and his statements about election fraud, which would have resulted in more destruction of evidence than had already occurred, left investigators with fewer ways to document the fraud, and ultimately hurt the quest to reveal any form of truth. That's not Kerry's fault, as much as some people would like it to be.