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Vinnick lost the debate, Alan Alda won the acting

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Pryderi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 09:25 AM
Original message
Vinnick lost the debate, Alan Alda won the acting
IMHO
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ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
1. That shows what a great actor..
.. Alda is. I think he's really liberal.

They both did a great job, but I had to turn it off after a few moments because I wanted it to be real..

.. and it's just fiction.

Fiction.

Sue
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
2. Indeed. He was unbeatable in that category.
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
3. Good call
But I think Santos (and Smits) held up rather well, too.
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
4. Agreed.
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LiberalPartisan Donating Member (844 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
5. I liked the defense of Liberal accomplishments By Santos n/t

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Ready4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
6. I didn't watch.
I knew it would reveal what a total crock our real debates are. I just wasn't up to facing that.
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Laura PourMeADrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
7. Wow - I thought the total opposite. I thought Alda won on both
accounts. I have never heard the other side defended as well. It made me think that this is what the country needs a real disclosure on what both sides believe. Santos looked like a deer in the headlights most of the time. IMHO
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Skink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. The fictional media on the show will declare Vinnick the winner..
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Az Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #7
14. There was truth in his words but they are incomplete
Yes, we should fight for a government that tries not to overreach. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't reach at all. This is the problem the right has. It has decided that there is very little the government should be involved in. But if buying in bulk works for Walmart why should We The People not be able to avail ourselves of such power?
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Salviati Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Yes, that's the failure in the conservative vision...
They see the government as some external entity, not as an agent of the people. If the conservatives are truely interested in freedom, then they should have no problems with letting people have the freedom to choose universal health care, municipal wi-fi, or any other host of services that people can decide that government can provide better than the "free market"
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whatever4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
9. Total agreement, adoration here
Alan was awesome, he carried the show, and did it so gracefully we could barely tell. The ultimate mastering of a skill. Alan Alda. An American treasure, with a twinkle in his eye and the perfectly delivered line :) A man who made men who love women look good, and still does.

Thank you kind sir, you've taught me so much over the years, and now this. Thank you.
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DelawareValleyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
10. Yes, he did
Alda gets better with age.
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mtnester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
11. Wonder if he went home and took a long hot shower
Alan Alda is a great actor...that had to make him feel dirty on some level. Or else he loved making it look the way he did. Hope he tells us someday.
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Salviati Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. I don't think that Alan has anything to feel dirty about...
He's at least portraying an honest, ethical republican. If all republicans were like Vinick, this country would be a lot better off. Unfortunately we've got these crooks in charge who place the best interestes of our country at best in third place, behind their own interests, and that of their friends and supporters.
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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. Quite true. I'm pleased that this "West Wing" campaign pitted
Edited on Mon Nov-07-05 12:46 PM by gkhouston
the Democratic candidate against an honest, ethical republican instead of a empty shirt like the governor James Brolin portrayed when Bartlet was running for re-election. It's a harder show to write, but a much more satisfying one to watch -- not that Sorkin didn't have some valid points to make about running against a "platitudes" candidate.
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truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
12. I disagree. Both actors did a very good job.
I think that Alda was slightly more comfortable going live than Smits at times, but Smits hit all of his points with gusto and verve (I have no idea what that means, ti just sounds good) and pulled off a remarkable performance.

From a character standpoint they both did a great job, Santos young energetic Democrat, Vinnick, typical boring ass grumpy repiglican..

No wonder Santos has 70% of the vote in the NBC poll....Well, that and the fact that mostly proud and hopeful liberals watch that show on a regular basis...
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Az Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
13. Smitts won the debate but lost the final words
Edited on Mon Nov-07-05 10:07 AM by Az
Alda made a superior emotional appeal at the end. And the last word is often the one that people remember.

On Edit: Goofed the name. Reversed intent.
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SCDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. I thought that was what gave Santos the win
His ending words - Pointing out that Vinick was for government regulating and reaching in on one part but then saying on another issue that that is not what government should do. You can't have it both ways.

I thought it was great on both sides. Vinick seemed to talk more. Santos stumbled a little here and there but I think on Substance Santos won.

The backdrop did look a little State Governor debateish not quite Presidential material but overall I thought it was good.
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Az Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. If the race card hadn't been played
I would have given the closing words to Santos. But he played it and he played it while claiming he had never played it.

I am not saying that I agreed with what Vinnick had to say in his closing words. But he carried a stronger emotional hit and it was more efficient. He carried a single idea through the closing words and that more than anything has an effect on people.

Its the whole problem Dems face because they understand nuance. Things are not black and white. But people want them to be. Black and white, right and wrong, good and evil. People want simple concrete answers.
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mnhtnbb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. Alda is a very accomplished man AND actor
He's done a lot of stage work, and he's very good with ad-libs. I thought the debate clearly pitted the "father figure" style of politics of Alda's character against the individual who doesn't need a Daddy to tell him what to do of Smits character. I thought both sides were well presented.

It was a great show. Wouldn't you love to see Presidential candidates have a REAL debate?
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WritingIsMyReligion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
18. Agreed. That was a fantastic episode. :D :D nt
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Protagoras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
19. Anyone see BOTH Versions?
I'd love to hear what the differences between the two broadcasts were.
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Pryderi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. Me too. I think only satellite watchers had the option of watching both.
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PennyK Donating Member (382 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
22. I heard...
...that it was all ad-libbed...that is, unscripted. Could that be true?
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drbtg1 Donating Member (932 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. from the AP via MSNBC

The actors may also do something rarely seen. Although they have a script, Alda and Smits also received a crash course in debate strategy and issues that will allow them to veer off the page.

“It’s loose enough that it will be exciting to the audience,” Smits told The Associated Press.

Asked if that approach puts unusual pressure on the actors, he replied: “Pressure? I’m totally sweating this.”


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9887419/
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