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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 03:40 PM
Original message
I give you a FACT BOMB for your reading pleasure
This is loooooong, outrageously so perhaps, but I wanted to put everything into one basket. Feast:

===

Yes, They Lied
By William Rivers Pitt
t r u t h o u t | Perspective

Monday 07 November 2005

"The president of the United States and the secretary of defense would not assert as plainly and bluntly as they have that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction if it was not true, and if they did not have a solid basis for saying it."

- Ari Fleischer, 12/4/2002


Find a defender of the White House on your television these days, and you are likely to hear them blame Bill Clinton for Iraq. Yes, you read that right. The talking point du jour lately has focused on comments made by Clinton from the mid-to-late 1990s to the effect that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and was a threat. The pretzel logic here, of course, is straightforward: this Democratic president thought the stuff was there, and that justifies the claims made by the Bush crew over the last few years about Iraqi weapons.

Let's take a deeper look at the facts. Right off the bat, it is safe to say that Clinton and his crew had every reason to believe Iraq was in possession of weapons of mass destruction during the 1990s. For one thing, they knew this because the previous two administrations - Reagan and Bush - actively assisted the Hussein regime in the development of these programs. In other words, we had the receipts.

After the first Gulf War, the United Nations implemented a series of weapons inspections under the banner of UNSCOM, and scoured Iraq for both weapons and weapons production facilities. They lifted bombed buildings off their foundations, they used a wide range of detection technologies, and after seven years of work, they disarmed Iraq.

A good place to start any detailed discussion of this matter is with former UNSCOM chief weapons inspector Scott Ritter, who spent seven years in Iraq searching out and destroying Iraq's weapons and weapons manufacturing capabilities. "After 1998," Ritter reports in a book I wrote in 2002 titled 'War on Iraq,' "Iraq had been fundamentally disarmed. What this means is that 90%-95% of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction capability, including all of their factories used to produce chemical, biological, nuclear long-range ballistic missiles, the associated equipment of these factories, and the vast majority of the product produced by these factories, had been verifiably eliminated."

The Joe Wilson/Valerie Plame scandal that has recently encompassed the White House stems from claims bade by Bush in 2003 that Iraq was seeking uranium from Niger for use in a nuclear weapons program. In 2002, Ritter described the status of Iraq's nuclear program. "The infrastructure, the facilities, had been 100% eliminated," he said. "In this, there is no debate. All of their instruments and facilities had been destroyed. The weapons design facility had been destroyed. The production equipment had been hunted down and destroyed, and we had in place one of the more effective monitoring mechanisms - gamma detection - that we operated in Iraq both from vehicles and airborne, looking for gamma rays that would be emitted if Iraq was seeking to enrich uranium or plutonium. We never found anything. The fact is, in terms of the industrial infrastructure needed by Iraq to produce nuclear weapons, this had been eliminated."

Ritter went into great detail on the status of Iraq's chemical weapons capabilities during our 2002 interview. "The Iraqis were able to produce a nerve agent of sarin and tabun successfully and stabilize it," said Ritter, "but even stabilized stuff stored under ideal conditions will degenerate within five years. The sarin and tabun were produced in the Muthanna State establishment - a massive chemical weapons factory - and this place was bombed during the Gulf War, and then weapons inspectors came and completed the task of eliminating this facility. What that means is that Iraq lost its sarin and tabun manufacturing base."

"Let's also keep in mind," he continued, "that we destroyed thousands of tons of chemical agent. It's not as though we said, 'Oh we destroyed a factory, now we're going to wait for everything else to expire.' No. We had an incineration plant operating full-time for years, burning tons of the stuff every day. We went out and blew up in place the bombs and missiles and warheads filled with this agent. We emptied out SCUD missile warheads filled with this agent. We destroyed this stuff - we hunted it down and we destroyed it."

"Now, there are those who say that the Iraqis could have hid some of this from us," continued Ritter. "The problem with that scenario is that whatever they diverted would have had to have been produced in the Muthanna State establishment, which means that once we blew up the Muthanna State establishment, they no longer had the ability to produce new agent, and in five years science takes over. Sarin and tabun will degrade and become useless sludge. It's no longer a viable chemical agent that the world needs to be concerned about."

"So," concluded Ritter, "all this talk about Iraq having chemical weapons - most of it is based upon speculation that Iraq could have hid some of this from UN weapons inspectors. That speculation is no longer valid, not in terms of the Iraqi ability to hide this stuff from inspectors - although I believe we did such a good job of inspecting Iraq that if they had tried to hide it, we would have found it. But let's just say that they did try to hide it, and we never found it. So what? It's gone today, so let's throw out that hypothetical. It's not even worth the time to talk about it anymore."

On the subject of Iraqi biological weapons, Ritter said in 2002, "The two main biological weapons weaponized by the Iraqis were anthrax and botulinin toxin. Both factories have been destroyed, the means of production destroyed, and even if Iraq was able to hide these weapons, they're useless today. For Iraq to have biological weapons today, they would have had to reconstitute a biological manufacturing base. And again, biological research and development was one of the things most heavily inspected by weapons inspectors. We blanked Iraq - every research and development facility, every university, every school, every hospital, every beer factory, anything with a potential fermentation capability was inspected, and we never found any evidence of ongoing research and development or retention."

That's a lot of information, so let's boil it down. Yes, Iraq was at one time in the business of manufacturing weapons of mass destruction. By 1998, however, those weapons had been destroyed. The manufacturing base for the production of these weapons had been destroyed. Even if Iraq had been able to squirrel away a portion of these weapons, the basic chemistry involved means that the stuff degraded to utter uselessness within five years. Without a manufacturing base for the production of weapons material, said base having been eliminated by 1998, anything stashed away was pudding by 2003.

If Bush's people are going to argue that invading Iraq in 2003 because of weapons of mass destruction was the responsible thing to do, they must certainly acknowledge that the efforts of the Clinton administration and UNSCOM to eliminate these weapons was also responsible. The tough talk from the Clinton administration in 1998 regarding Iraq's WMD was of a piece with this process; they were keeping the heat on to make sure the threat was eliminated.

Flip to the end of the chapter, however, and you'll come across the pages being left out of the discussion by Bush's defenders. One, the stuff was destroyed by 1998, a fact that weapons inspections in 2003 could have easily established (and did establish, thanks to Bush's inspector, Dr. David Kay, who stated bluntly the stuff wasn't there, but only after the killing had begun). Two, Clinton did not invade Iraq and throw the United States into a ridiculous, endless, bloody quagmire. He managed to disarm Hussein without taking this disastrous step.

In short, the contortions that defenders of Bush are going through to justify the invasion do not hold water. Further, evidence that the Bush administration lied with their bare faces hanging out to get this war is piling up in snowdrifts.

Take, for example, the dire claims made by Bush administration officials about the imminent threat posed by Iraq, claims made as early as 2002. "The Iraqi regime," said Bush in October of 2002, "possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons. We know that the regime has produced thousands of tons of chemical agents, including mustard gas, sarin nerve gas, VX nerve gas."

If the threat was so dire, why is Sir Christopher Meyer, Britain's ambassador to Washington in the run-up to the war, claiming that the Bush administration would have been happy to hold off on invading Iraq until after the presidential election? Meyer, according to the UK Guardian, "reveals that Karl Rove, the political advisor to the president, told him there would have been no problem for Mr. Bush in waiting until the end of 2003 or even early 2004 and this would not have risked entanglement in the US presidential campaign."

Some dire threat. Toss onto the pile this little tidbit: I have been told by soldiers involved in the initial invasion of Iraq that they were not given biological or chemical weapons gear to protect them from a WMD attack. If the Bush administration did truly believe there were WMD in Iraq, why did they fail to give our troops the gear they needed to protect themselves? Either the administration was unutterably irresponsible, or they knew ahead of time that the troops would not be needing protective gear.

Finally, there is the recent report in the New York Times about an al Qaeda operative captured in 2001 who deliberately lied to US interrogators about an al Qaeda presence in Iraq. The operative, Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi, was exposed as a liar by the Defense Intelligence Agency in February of 2002. Their report bluntly stated that al-Libi was deliberately misleading interrogators, and any information he provided was not to be trusted. By 2004, al-Libi had completely recanted all of his testimony.

"The (Defense Intelligence Agency) document provides the earliest and strongest indication of doubts voiced by American intelligence agencies about Mr. Libi's credibility," reported the Times. "Without mentioning him by name, President Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney, Colin L. Powell, then secretary of state, and other administration officials repeatedly cited Mr. Libi's information as 'credible' evidence that Iraq was training al Qaeda members in the use of explosives and illicit weapons. Among the first and most prominent assertions was one by Mr. Bush, who said in a major speech in Cincinnati in October 2002 that 'we've learned that Iraq has trained Al Qaeda members in bomb making and poisons and gases.'"

It makes you wonder. Why did al-Libi lie about an al Qaeda presence in Iraq? Did he do this in order to help push the US into an invasion of that country? If true, this means that Bush, by invading Iraq, did exactly what Osama bin Laden wanted him to. He gave bin Laden the war, and the rallying cry, he was looking for. That's leadership.

The stuff was destroyed by 1998. Bush and his crew were prepared to delay the invasion if it meant smoother sailing for the election, despite all their claims of an imminent threat. They eventually sent our troops in without WMD gear, despite all their claims of an imminent threat. They used a fully discredited source to justify the invasion, even after being told the source was certainly making things up as he went along.

Tack this to the wall:

"How the United States should react if Iraq acquired WMD. The first line of defense...should be a clear and classical statement of deterrence--if they do acquire WMD, their weapons will be unusable because any attempt to use them will bring national obliteration." - Condoleeza Rice, 2/1/2000

"We are greatly concerned about any possible linkup between terrorists and regimes that have or seek weapons of mass destruction...In the case of Saddam Hussein, we've got a dictator who is clearly pursuing and already possesses some of these weapons. A regime that hates America and everything we stand for must never be permitted to threaten America with weapons of mass destruction." - Dick Cheney, 6/20/2002

"Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction." - Dick Cheney, 8/26/2002

"There is already a mountain of evidence that Saddam Hussein is gathering weapons for the purpose of using them. And adding additional information is like adding a foot to Mount Everest." - Ari Fleischer, 9/6/2002

"We don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud." - Condoleeza Rice, 9/8/2002

"Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons." - George W. Bush, 9/12/2002

"Iraq has stockpiled biological and chemical weapons, and is rebuilding the facilities used to make more of those weapons. We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have." - George W. Bush, 10/5/2002

"And surveillance photos reveal that the regime is rebuilding facilities that it had used to produce chemical and biological weapons." - George W. Bush, 10/7/2002

"After eleven years during which we have tried containment, sanctions, inspections, even selected military action, the end result is that Saddam Hussein still has chemical and biological weapons and is increasing his capabilities to make more. And he is moving ever closer to developing a nuclear weapon." - George W. Bush, 10/7/2002

"We've also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas." - George W. Bush, 10/7/2002

"Iraq could decide on any given day to provide biological or chemical weapons to a terrorist group or to individual terrorists...The war on terror will not be won until Iraq is completely and verifiably deprived of weapons of mass destruction." - Dick Cheney, 12/1/2002

"If he declares he has none, then we will know that Saddam Hussein is once again misleading the world." - Ari Fleischer, 12/2/2002

"We know for a fact that there are weapons there." - Ari Fleischer, 1/9/2003

"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa. Our intelligence sources tell us that he has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production." - George W. Bush, 1/28/2003

"Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent." - George W. Bush, 1/28/2003

"We know that Saddam Hussein is determined to keep his weapons of mass destruction, is determined to make more." - Colin Powell, 2/5/2003

"There can be no doubt that Saddam Hussein has biological weapons and the capability to rapidly produce more, many more. And he has the ability to dispense these lethal poisons and diseases in ways that can cause massive death and destruction. If biological weapons seem too terrible to contemplate, chemical weapons are equally chilling." - Colin Powell, 2/5/2003

"If Iraq had disarmed itself, gotten rid of its weapons of mass destruction over the past 12 years, or over the last several months since (UN Resolution) 1441 was enacted, we would not be facing the crisis that we now have before us...But the suggestion that we are doing this because we want to go to every country in the Middle East and rearrange all of its pieces is not correct." - Colin Powell, 2/28/2003

"Let's talk about the nuclear proposition for a minute. We know that based on intelligence, that has been very, very good at hiding these kinds of efforts. He's had years to get good at it and we know he has been absolutely devoted to trying to acquire nuclear weapons. And we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons." - Dick Cheney, 3/16/2003

"Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised." - George W. Bush, 3/17/2003

"Well, there is no question that we have evidence and information that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, biological and chemical particularly . . . all this will be made clear in the course of the operation, for whatever duration it takes." - Ari Fleischer, 3/21/2003

"We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat." - Donald Rumsfeld, 3/30/2003

"We are learning more as we interrogate or have discussions with Iraqi scientists and people within the Iraqi structure, that perhaps he destroyed some, perhaps he dispersed some. And so we will find them." - George W. Bush, 4/24/2003

"I'm absolutely sure that there are weapons of mass destruction there and the evidence will be forthcoming. We're just getting it just now." - Colin Powell, 5/4/2003

"It's going to take time to find them, but we know he had them. And whether he destroyed them, moved them or hid them, we're going to find out the truth. One thing is for certain: Saddam Hussein no longer threatens America with weapons of mass destruction." - George W. Bush, 5/25/2003

"But for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them." - George W. Bush, 5/30/2003

"No one ever said that we knew precisely where all of these agents were, where they were stored." - Condoleeza Rice, 6/8/2003


Yes, they lied.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. wow, good compilation
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #1
39. Phase two of lead up to war statements will bring these claims to
light will they not?? -- which from my research is reason to impeach Bush for going to war under false pretenses -- yes/no??
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
2. Thanks, Will.
A whole bunch.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
3. ..and Pat Roberts says there was no evidence of intelligence manipulation.
Great Post! and YES THEY DID AND CONTINUE TO LIE.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
4. FACT BOMB is right!!!
:kick:
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electropop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Consider me bombed.
:nuke:

That's a lotta facts. Bottom line: Clinton said there was a problem until his anti-WMD program worked by 1998, and then he stopped saying there was a problem. Is there a problem here?
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
24. Simple: The intel Clinton was reading and the intel Bush was fixing had
no standing once the weapons inspectors went in to accumulate the ACTUAL, ACCURATE information that was needed to determine whether miltary action was warranted.

Clinton and Bush's intel became inoperable the moment that Weapons inspectors started reporting the actual situation IN Iraq. That was the information that would send this nation to war if necesssary, but people keep getting diverted by blaming the IWR and now bad intel.

The bottom line is that weapons inspectors were the intel gatherers at that point - and Bush started a war based on NO FACTS and NO INTEL given to him by the inspectors.
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cyberpj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #24
37. That's IT - well put. nt.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #37
47. Thanks cyber - now how do we get all Dems to pick up on that simple truth?
Just think of the airtime it would save by taking every argument straight to this bottom line.
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cyberpj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. Seems Harry Reid is getting a lot of press these days -
sending it to him to use because we know he'll get the Clinton thing thrown at him might work.

Otherwise, I'm planning on sending it to my senators and reps AND using just what you said to respond to network news stations.

Why can't our Dems be as well spoken and informed as DUers?!?!

Perhaps because we need to do a better job of writing them, writing them, writing them.

(?)

and now...just for you...my favorite (Clinton related, sort of) bumper sticker:
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. It came from constant arguing about IWR. It always amazed me that Bush
wasn't getting his ass kicked for VIOLATING the IWR and that was because so many people were caught up in blaming IWR itself, instead of Bush.

The real key to every Bush lie is the WEAPONS INSPECTIONS. The weapons inspections came about because of the IWR. The media helped keep the focus on the Dems supporting IWR as if it only meant war, thereby diminishing the most important guideline in it - the weapons inspections.

When the WH started up with the Clinton intel crap again, my mind just snapped on the weapons inspections BEING the only real intel that should be relied upon for war because it was accurate and on the ground and CURRENT.
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afdip Donating Member (660 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
5. impressive . . . . now to find a way to disseminate it
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. OK
http://www.truthout.org

http://forum.truthout.org/blog/

http://www.pdamerica.org

http://blog.pdamerica.org

Give me a few hours and it'll be on all four. That's about 25 million readers right there.
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liberalnurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #7
27. I shall use this article of FACTS
as a reference tool for my talking points. I talk a lot too!

Thank you William. O8)
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DemExpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
6. Impressive LIES buffet, Will....
:kick:

DemEx
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Talk about indigestion from eating too much garbage....
....:puke:

Trying to digest the vast quantities of LIES from the Bush/Cheney Neo-con Cabal is difficult even for the strongest of stomachs...

These people are disgusting.... :grr:
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
9. Excellent Will - as always :-)
:toast:

:-)
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
10. One question about the Bio-Chemical protection for soldiers.
I remember all the reports from the reporter "embeds" about how uncomfortable the soldiers were during the invasion because of having to wear the protection gear in the terrible Iraqi heat in case of an attack. I even remember endless reports on CNN and MSNBC showing what the gear looked like and demonstrations of how effective it could be.

If you've talked to soldiers who said they didn't wear any protective gear i.e. gas masks and stuff then who is telling the truth? Does it mean our reporters lied? CNN & MSNBC were fed this info to pump up the "fear factor?" :eyes:

Another investigation that needs to be done, apparently. There are so many waiting in line, it's too hard to keep track.
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ebayfool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. I remember the news being filled w/that, too! It certainly served to pump
up the fear factor for the viewers. Good question - who was doing it? The news people, or were they being spoonfed (albeit w/wide open mouths!)?
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
12. And you think that's enough to make an issue of? You're a PARTISAN!
Politics of personal destruction!

Hiding behind the truth!

Letting facts get in the way of the investigation!!

:sarcasm:

Nicely done, Will!!

But you know the right would respond that way...
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realFedUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
14. For those who did think there were WMD....
this is an important and under-discussed talking point:

"Some dire threat. Toss onto the pile this little tidbit: I have been told by soldiers involved in the initial invasion of Iraq that they were not given biological or chemical weapons gear to protect them from a WMD attack. If the Bush administration did truly believe there were WMD in Iraq, why did they fail to give our troops the gear they needed to protect themselves? Either the administration was unutterably irresponsible, or they knew ahead of time that the troops would not be needing protective gear."
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. Um, yeeeahhh... Whatzat bumper sticker you've got? "Support Our Troops"?
Another DUer here - to whom I apologize because I don't remember who posted it - a piercing question to pose for such an animal: "is your yellow ribbon buying them more body armor?"
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
15. Excellent!
Recommended and bookmarked of course. :toast:

Now if only those reporters getting mega bucks to actually research these matters, would at the very least read your articles, we'd be in business.

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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
16. BRAVO!!! This stuff Just. Needs. To. Be. Said.
It needs to be said.

Over and over. And over. And over. And over. EVERYWHERE.

Kudos, Will - another excellent job!
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King Coal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
17. But why, why did they lie? Money or PNAC? My money is on money.
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Martin Eden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. When you make up your own reality, truth and lies become irrelevant
I found this September 2003 article by Josh Marshall in the Washington Monthly to be a very good read on this subject:
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2003/0309.marshall.html
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #17
34. I would say they were being blackmailed by the Saudis.....
I know this sounds like something the right-wing would prefer to think of as a conspiracy theory, but look at this interview I discovered by one Bill White, a former Texas business associate of James Bath:

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/conspiracytheories/white.pdf


<snip>

Well, I learned that there was a relationship between the Saudi Royals and the politicians here in the United States and that Bath was helping to protect the Saudi Royal Family by training some of the Saudi Nationals who were at our Air Force base as being trained as Pilots. We had a Prince who was the first foreign National to fly on the first US Space Shuttle. We had other foreign Nationals too. Jim was functioning as an intermediary between the Bushes and the Saudi Royal Family.

<snip>

He spent probably ninety-five percent of his time, I’d call it hand-holding the Arabs. He bought a bank for them. He bought an airport for them. He started an airline for them among other ventures in Houston, Texas and was, the nominee or the front man for their ownership of these various entities. He would spend ninety-nine percent of his time dealing with their interests while I was relegated to running our real estate development company.

<snip>

they had banking interests by virtue of Bush Senior’s association with First International Bank which subsequently became Air First. And also John Connolly who was a former Democrat who turned Republican and worked in the Nixon Administration with Bush he ran First Citi-Bank.

We also had James Baker and Baker, the Baker and Bott’s Law Firm, so you basically had a confluence of political interests that were friendly to the Saudi Royal Family doing business in Houston.

<snip>

Bath explained to me that he had been tapped by George Senior to set up a quasi private aircraft firm that would basically engage in CIA-sponsored activities funded by the Saudi Royal Family. He explained that the Saudis had basically entered into a quid pro quo relationship with Bush and that Bush when he was CIA Director worked with the Head of Saudi Intelligence and they trained the Palace Guard to protect the Saudi Royal Family who was concerned about a fundamentalist revolution.

And it was at that point I think that this thing got kicked into high gear and the Saudis agreed to provide surreptitious funding to the United States to fight secret wars in Afghanistan and Nicaragua on the one hand and Bush as Vice President then sent AWACS and F-Fifteen Fighter Jets to Saudi Arabia to support Saddam Hussein under the psyche that the enemy is my friend. We had the Iran-Iraq War at the time. And so that’s, that’s really how it evolved.

<snip>

Bath had told me that he had used Saudi money to fund George Bush Junior’s start into the Energy business.

<snip>

NOW JIM BATH HAS EFFECTIVELY DENIED HE PUT SAUDI MONEY INTO GEORGE W. BUSH’S COMPANIES AT THAT POINT.

I don’t know that he’s denied it or hasn’t. I know that Time Magazine when they began to investigate this got him to go on record, or got George Bush Junior to go on record having denied been in business with Bath just saying they were just personal friends and once they were presented with these documents then he recanted, Bush recanted and admitted that Bath had put money in. But my understanding is in the aftermath of the Nine-Eleven, the White House denied that any of that money was Saudi money. They were maintaining that it was all Bath’s money.

<snip>

WHERE IS JIM BATH TODAY?

He’s in hiding in Houston. He’s in hiding.

HE HAS NOT BEEN SEEN?

Oh he’s been seen. I ran into him at the grocery store about nine months ago. But he was very prominent with the Chamber and social circles and after Bin Mahfouz was indicted by the District Attorney in nineteen ninety-one, paid a two-hundred and twenty-five million dollar fine and kicked out of the Country and his Bank, BCCI and NCB shut down, Bath basically was put on ice by Bush because he became a political liability. And if you call his Aircraft Brokerage Company, JB and A, they’ll tell you we know who Jim Bath is but we haven’t seen him in years and we don’t know how to contact him. So he’s, he’s really being kept on ice.

<snip>

WHEN GEORGE BUSH SENIOR WAS REPLACED AS DIRECTOR OF THE CIA, WHERE DID HE GO ...?

He came to Houston and he became affiliated with a Bank in Houston called FIB, First International Bank. And that was, that was the bank that Bath used to deposit the Saudi money. That’s where the Bin Laden revolving line of credit was. The name changed in nineteen eighty to First International Bank from FIB but it was the same bank.

AND YOU SAY HE WAS CONNECTED WITH THIS BANK. WHAT WAS GEORGE BUSH SENIOR’S INTEREST ..?

He was Chairman of the Executive Committee of the Bank.

SO THAT’S MORE THAN CONNECTED.

Well, more than connected. Yeah.

FUNDAMENTAL ROLE.

He was the principal player.

SO NO COINCIDENCE AS FAR AS YOU’RE CONCERNED THAT THE SAUDI MONEY AND THE MONEY THAT BATH’S DOING BUSINESS WITHIN, ENDS UP AT GEORGE BUSH SENIOR’S BANK.

No this is no coincidence at all. This is all arranged. It was all arranged at the time that Bush made this quid pro quo relationship with the Saudis. I mean, my understanding of it is that Bath represented the Bush interests and Bin Laden-Bin Mahfouz interchangeably represented the Saudi Royal Family interests

<snip>

YOU’RE SURE IF BATH WAS DOING BUSINESS WITH THE SAUDIS, SURE HE WAS DOING BUSINESS WITH THE BUSHES, BUT NEVER THE TWAIN WOULD MEET.

There’s no way. I mean Bath confided in me. And told me every bit of evidence I’ve seen, I’ve met all the players, the Bushes, the Saudis, I mean everything fits very consistent.

<snip>

during this litigation process even they initially tried to compel me to cooperate in the cover-up when I refused they began to offer me money and Banking business, and a package worth millions of dollars if I would only sign what they called a Settlement Agreement. But I explained to my Lawyer, when the Settlement Agreement in my eyes it was a hush money agreement. It said basically that we could never have this conversation that we could never disclose the Bush-Saudi relationship and I felt to take that money and to sign that Agreement would have been to basically spit on the graves of all of my friends who died in Vietnam and were fighting for you know our, our Oath to protect the Constitution.

<snip>

WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE ESSENTIAL RELEVANCE OF WHAT YOU KNOW AND WHAT YOU HAVE GONE THROUGH, AND WHAT’S GOING ON NOW?

I don’t believe that Bush as President can be an objective arbitrator of the war on terrorism. The Bin Ladens and the Saudis are obviously involved, fifteen of the nineteen terrorists were Saudis. The Saudis are known to have been funding these Islamic charities that have funded the Terrorists including the National Commercial Bank. The same people that were dealing business with Bath at Bush’s request and funding Bush’s business interests. Bush moved heaven and earth obviously calling in chips with Houston Judges to keep this information kept quiet and the Saudis are in an ideal position basically to blackmail the President of the United States and to quash any investigation into their activities, funding of Islamic charities because of the fact that they’ve had Bush on the payroll back in the late seventies and early eighties.


On a side note, several days ago White submitted an open letter to Patrick Fitzgerald in the Plame investigation with his story showing that the Bushes have a pattern of covering up evidence and bullying their enemies.

http://antifascist2005.dailykos.com/story/2005/11/6/61854/9150










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SharonRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
18. This is a fabulous rundown, Will
It should be spread far and wide.
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
19. Bombed.
:nuke:

I really don't see how the Bushies can recover from this.

Yeah, I've said it before.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
21. You had me at, "Yes, They Lied."
Then, you proved your case.

Great job, Will!!! :applause:
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Twist_U_Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
22. Where are the Iraqi scientists ?
WHERE ARE THEY ???????
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Martin Eden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
23. Don't forget about the other side of the coin -- alliance with al Qaeda
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34930">This October 2003 article by Paul Sperry is still a strong indictment:

Yes, Bush lied

--snip--
The 90-page, top-secret report, drafted by the National Intelligence Council at Langley, included an executive summary for President Bush known as the "key judgments." It summed up the findings of the U.S. intelligence community regarding the threat posed by Iraq, findings the president says formed the foundation for his decision to preemptively invade Iraq without provocation. The report "was good, sound intelligence," Bush has remarked.

page 4 of the report, called the National Intelligence Estimate, deals with terrorism, and draws conclusions that would come as a shock to most Americans, judging from recent polls on Iraq. The CIA, Defense Intelligence Agency and the other U.S. spy agencies unanimously agreed that Baghdad:

had not sponsored past terrorist attacks against America,

was not operating in concert with al-Qaida,

and was not a terrorist threat to America.


--snip--
Their message to the president was clear: Saddam wouldn't help al-Qaida unless we put his back against the wall, and even then it was a big maybe. If anything, the report was a flashing yellow light against attacking Iraq.

Bush saw the warning, yet completely ignored it and barreled ahead with the war plans he'd approved a month earlier (Aug. 29), telling a completely different version of the intelligence consensus to the American people. Less than a week after the NIE was published, he warned that "on any given day" – provoked by attack or not, sufficiently desperate or not – Saddam could team up with Osama and conduct a joint terrorist operation against America using weapons of mass destruction.

"Iraq could decide on any given day to provide a biological or chemical weapon to a terrorist group or individual terrorists," Bush said Oct. 7 in his nationally televised Cincinnati speech. "Alliance with terrorists could allow the Iraqi regime to attack America without leaving fingerprints." The terrorists he was referring to were "al-Qaida members."

By telling Americans that Saddam could "on any given day" slip unconventional weapons to al-Qaida if America didn't disarm him, the president misrepresented the conclusions of his own secret intelligence report, which warned that Saddam wouldn't even try to reach out to al-Qaida unless he were attacked and had nothing to lose – and might even find that hard to do since he had no history of conducting joint terrorist operations with al-Qaida, and certainly none against the U.S.

If that's not lying, I don't know what is.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34930">link to article
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cantstandbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
26. Ok, Will, so Fitzgerald has nothing more to do but enter this into
evidence it seems to me. Bush should be impeached and the rest thrown in jail. Case closed.
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BamaBecky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
28. Print this, snail mail it to your Republican friends.....
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wiggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
29. Anybody have the Powell quote...
...from before 9/11 that echoes the 2/2000 Rice quote...that Hussein is contained and is not a threat?

Thought I had it but nay. Would be a good companion quote to Rice's showing that before 9/11 that Hussein was largely defanged.
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Martin Eden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Here it is:
We had a good discussion, the Foreign Minister and I and the President and I, had a good discussion about the nature of the sanctions -- the fact that the sanctions exist -- not for the purpose of hurting the Iraqi people, but for the purpose of keeping in check Saddam Hussein's ambitions toward developing weapons of mass destruction. We should constantly be reviewing our policies, constantly be looking at those sanctions to make sure that they are directed toward that purpose. That purpose is every bit as important now as it was ten years ago when we began it. And frankly they have worked. He has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors. So in effect, our policies have strengthened the security of the neighbors of Iraq...

http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/powell-no-wmd.htm">More
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wiggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #30
33. Gracias! nt
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
31. We must impeach,
Why aren't the people out in the streets demanding congress to act?
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 12:29 AM
Response to Original message
32. And SO MUCH more. So much more has come out since the beginning
Edited on Tue Nov-08-05 12:29 AM by Hissyspit
of the war - documents, personal testimony, etc. revealing the extent to which they manipulated and manufactured and obfuscated. Which makes it all the more impressive what those of us who kept up an PATRIOTIC, WISE and humanity-centered skepticism at work against the deluge of fallacy coming from the administration, ignorant fellow citizens, and the "mainstream" media.
Still much work to be done, though.
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Moosepoop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
35. "We were misled" is a step in the right direction...
But at what point will our politicians and news media finally come right out and say it: THEY LIED!!!??

By "news media", I mean TV and print publications -- obviously the internet media is on top of things. Thanks, Will!!
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cyberpj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
36. Emailed to NYT, WaPo, LATimes, Newsweek, Time, and lots of MSNBCers
Edited on Tue Nov-08-05 09:21 AM by cyberpj
Thanks Will, for your usual excellent job in putting it all together in one place like this.

Now I'm going to email it to as many personal contacts as I can...



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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
38. two serious quibbles, Will....
Edited on Tue Nov-08-05 10:05 AM by mike_c
First, Ritter has recently stated that Iraq was effectively disarmed as early as 1992 and certainly by 1995, and that western intel agencies were aware of it. I heard him make that claim on Democracy Now a couple of weeks ago. He has also said that the U.S. effectively reframed the question of whether Iraq had retained any weapons stockpiles or manufacturing capacity into a "prove the negative" argument so that the U.S. would NEVER have to honor the U.N. requirement that economic sanctions be lifted once Iraq was disarmed, as long as Saddam Hussein was in power. This was for essentially political reasons-- to provide cover for the official line that Hussein was the "Hitler of the middle east."

Second, Clinton is not blameless in all of this-- your article leaves the impression that he was simply following through on the inspections process. But in fact the Clinton administration went along with the reframed-- and thus immpossible to prove-- WMD questions, demonstrating that it too had no interest in allowing Iraq's compliance with the disarmament mandate to be certified. More to the point, it was under the Clinton administration-- an administration that Ritter now says KNEW Iraq was "fundamentally disarmed" by at least 1995-- that nearly one million Iraqi civilians died under an unnecessary and brutal embargo. The Clinton administration also used the inspections process for intelligence gathering, long after Iraq had disarmed, effectively using the recasting of the necessary proof to prolong the sanctions, provide cover for continued aerial harassment and bombardment, and to keep the weapons inspectors in the field long after Iraq had complied with the U.N. mandate. Ritter himself acknowledges this.

Let's be clear-- Clinton was responsible for the deaths of more Iraqi civilians than Bush has killed since invading, probably by an order of magnitude. U.S. foreign policy toward Iraq has been brutal for a long time, and Clinton participated in that brutality for essentially political reasons-- to avoid criticism for dealing with the "Hitler of the mid-east"-- and an estimated one million Iraqi civilians died to keep his polls up. That's murder on a genocidal scale. For NOTHING. Remember Albright's comment that the death of 500,000 Iraqi children was "a price we were willing to pay" to disarm Iraq? But by the time she made that statement, Iraq had already been disarmed for some years. And it's pretty cheap and easy to propose paying with someone else's children's lives.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
40. We should hang them in a neat, tidy row. For murder.
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
41. Sure would like to see this in the Tulsa World newspaper.
Just in case Will see's fit to.

letters@tulsaworld.com



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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
42. pat roberts is their new layer of defence.
i think they hope for something in the squabling that will breakout between democrats and repukes over this issue.

i think what bothers me -- is that so few powerful democratic representatives use the info you cited here -- it's not like it's unavailable.
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Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
43. A good read.....Pitt brings the fact together
Edited on Tue Nov-08-05 12:12 PM by Historic NY
"they knew this because the previous two administrations - Reagan and Bush - actively assisted the Hussein regime in the development of these programs. In other words, we had the receipts."


Too bad no one looked at a maximum expirations dates on the stuff the we sold.


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Catrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
44. Excellent article
Just one other thing I usually remind WMD lie supporters of who quote Democrats up to 1998. Clinton launched Operatiion Desert Fox in 1998, as I recall, to finish off whatever weapons might have been left. When he did that, rightwingers claimed at the time that he was just 'wagging the dog' and Trent Lott stated that he would 'support the troops', but 'not this president.

But I do agree with MikeC about the sanctions ~ of course we had a Republican Congress back then.

It makes you wonder. Why did al-Libi lie about an al Qaeda presence in Iraq? Did he do this in order to help push the US into an invasion of that country? If true, this means that Bush, by invading Iraq, did exactly what Osama bin Laden wanted him to. He gave bin Laden the war, and the rallying cry, he was looking for. That's leadership.

Exactly, but then, the neocons wanted the same thing ~ maybe he was on their payroll?
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. operation desert fox was nothing but window dressing...
Edited on Tue Nov-08-05 12:59 PM by mike_c
...and politics.

On December 16, 1998, United States Central Command (USCENTCOM) military forces launched cruise missile attacks against military targets in Iraq. These strikes were ordered by the President of the United States and were undertaken in response to Iraq's continued failure to comply with United Nations Security Council resolutions as well as their interference with United Nations Special Commission (UNSCOM) inspectors. The strikes were designed to deliver a serous blow to Saddam Hussein's capability to manufacture, store, maintain and deliver weapons of mass destruction and his ability to threaten or otherwise intimidate his neighbors.


The emphasis is mine. The bolded bits were lies and propaganda, and have since been exposed as such. The U.S. knew that Iraq was already disarmed several years before 1998, and Ritter has stated repeatedly that the Iraqis were generally very cooperative with the inspections after 1992-- that the instances of "non-cooperation" were in regard to U.S. attempts to use the inspectors to gather intelligence about Husseins movements and other internal security matters, not about weapons inspections. Ritter has said that PRIOR to 1992 Iraq apparently had attempted to retain some WMD strike capacity, presumably defensive, but that by 1992 they had given that up and were cooperating fully. We also knew that by the mid-nineties at the latest Iraq was no threat to its neighbors. Those circumstances undermine the stated objectives of Operation Desert Fox, and make me wonder what it's real purpose was. I SUSPECT it was just saber rattling in the tried and true tradition of presidential poll raising by appearing resolute and strong during times of conflict. Never mind that it was likely unnecessarily manufactured conflict. The dead never complain.

The public face of the non-cooperation issue was the reframing of the disarmament certification process to require that Iraq "prove a negative," i.e. prove that it had no WMDs. That is not logically possible, and the official assumption was that if Iraq couldn't prove that it didn't have WMDs, it must therefore have them. Bush II stated this fallacy on record many times, saying "if Iraq claims they don't have WMDs we'll know they're lying." It's a logical box, with no possibility of escape. It's also a baldfaced fallacy, but Clinton and Bush II had no qualms about resorting to it, and most Americans swallowed it without question.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-05 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
45. Link to final, with edits
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