I just don't believe that Ohio election reform lost legitimately.

This may have been where the fraud was most needed for BushInc. so they left the other races alone and expected Dems would be distracted by the wins in other places while the GOP gets to say, Dem wins in NJ and Va prove we don't rig machines.

What's more valuable to the GOP? Gov. races in states where there already were Dems in office, or defeating election reforms in Ohio, which throughout history has proven to be the only state that can ensure GOP control of the presidency?

I am grateful to the solid Dem wins all over the country, but, the election reform in Ohio screams fraud to me.

They have likely calculated that these resounding Dem wins will take the wind out of any anti-machine movement.

We need to ramp UP support for machine fraud groups, because their job just got harder.

I think that the vote yes commercials came out too soon and didn't run long enough in my area. The last 2 days were nothing but VOTE NO commercials on 2,3,4,5. The repugs went out and put up a lot of signs in my area right when the commercials came out.

I'm afraid that until DIEBOLD is given the swift kick OUT of Ohio COMPLETELY...I'm afraid that the state of Ohio might very well be lost to us. I KNOW that Ohio is Democratic now, but DIEBOLD keeps Ohio in the Repukes column.

I still have HOPE though for Paul Hackett knocking off the asshat Mike DeWhiner.

You have to have hope.

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Maybe using the Fiorello La Guardia method via AXES to the DIEBOLD voting machines ;)

None of the ads actually explained how issues 2-5 were supposed to reform Ohio voting. Most people had no idea what the issues were. Plus, it was too much reform at once.

The opposition did a very good job of using deceptive ads to convince people to vote no. Some of the opposition came from Democrats too.

In the counties where paper ballots were used, the issues went down in blazing defeat.

Diebold wasn't the problem this time.

oh the irony.

HAL responded "Sorry, I can't do that Dave".

We return now to your scheduled programming...

I really don't think that was the problem in Ohio.

1. confusion? -- I got a recorded call that just said "vote NO on issues 2-5 to avoid voter fraud", paid for by some committee like voters for responsible government of something like that. I had to go double check to make sure the ballot initiatives were not some oddly worded issues that a no was a yes.

2. lack of total support from democrats and progressives - even my very liberal college town newspaper, although endorsing the issues, made it clear they saw lots of problems with them. There were some voters that may have been generally for the intent of the issues but thought that some work needed to be done to get a better product before endorsing it completely.

needs greater attention. Looks like the RNC machine did its standard job there confusing the electorate.

was for #1 and against 2 - 5 ........

Issue #1:
Poll: 53% YES, 27% NO, 20% Don't Know
Actual: 53.7% YES, 46.3% NO

Issue #2:
Poll: 59% YES, 33% NO, 9% Don't Know
Actual: 35.7% YES, 64.3% NO

Issue #3:
Poll: 61% YES, 25% NO, 14% Don't Know
Actual: 32% YES, 68% NO

Issue #4:
Poll: 31% YES, 45% NO, 25% Don't Know
Actual: 29% YES, 71% NO

Issue #5:
Poll: 41% YES, 43% NO, 16% Don't Know
Actual: 28.8% YES, 71.2% NO

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IF nobody understands what the intiative is supposed to do FOR them, the safest answer is teh status quo so they vote AGAINST the intiative.

I'm sorry, but the pro-reform groups fell down. They did not inform the electorate, thus the intiatives failed.

It's the DNCs job to ensure fair elections for all Dem candidates and voters.

I felt that Dean was working on a way to expose the machines down the road, but, the Ohio election reforms should have been a frontline battle for the Dem party.

I am completely with Dean on the import of Sec of State races as a tactic, but it seems that he missed an important battle in Ohio with these reform measures..

They probably were busy and holed up somewhere trying to figure out how outsourcing and free trade could actually work as an issue to cleave off a few moderate votes :sarcasm:

to be absolutely correct.

Engineer a theft of a voting reform issue in the swing state whilst distracting the public with a Dem rout in NJ and VA. Besides, where is the evidence of vote stealing in the Buckeye State yesterday? I posted that the machines were not running in Lucas county, but I am sure that did not swing 16% of the votes away from RON.

Call me the skeptic-in-residence

Va, but also believe that those races were left alone for a greater reason.

I just read the Colbert Report thread and it's my time to make up words.

Issue #1:
Poll: 53% YES, 27% NO, 20% Don't Know
Actual: 54.1% YES, 45.9% NO
YES was 1.1% off
----------------------------------------------------

Issue #2:
Poll: 59% YES, 33% NO, 9% Don't Know
Actual: 36.5% YES, 63.5% NO
YES was 22.5% off in favor of Blackwell

----------------------------------------------------
Issue #3:
Poll: 61% YES, 25% NO, 14% Don't Know
Actual: 33% YES, 67% NO

YES was 28% off in favor of Blackwell
----------------------------------------------------

Issue #4:
Poll: 31% YES, 45% NO, 25% Don't Know
Actual: 30.2% YES, 69.8% NO

YES was 0.8% off in favor of Blackwell
----------------------------------------------------

Issue #5:
Poll: 41% YES, 43% NO, 16% Don't Know
Actual: 29.8% YES, 70.2% NO

YES was 11.2% off in favor of Blackwell


Poll Link:
http://www.dispatch.com/election.php?story=dispatch/2005/11/06/20051106-A4-03.html

Actual Link:
http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/ElectionsVoter/Results2005.aspx

Funny how the poll was accurate in Issue#1 and TOTALLY off for all but one of the election reform issues 2 thru 5, huh? :shrug:

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