o.k. students, you can believe in science OR mythology, it's up to you!

there are many people who'd rather reject logic and science and embrace mythology, perhaps cause it's easier to deal with in their child-like minds.

o.k., so you don't like science and logic, does this mean that your children cannot embrace it? does this mean that we will all be forced to go with mythology over science and logic?

i don't want to live in that america

do. I think for many people -- certainly not all -- it's a really big, traumatic deal. I think they're afraid that if they're taught about evolution, they'll turn away from the parents' faith. I've always sort of wondered about that fear, though. If what they believe is so right, then what's the harm in looking at other ideas?

Of course, I know a lot of Fundies would answer that it lets the Devil into your mind or something and then you can't see the truth of Fundy religion or something. I think that's what I was told. :)

Since the forces behind this crap are suddenly so interested in fairness, I expect that Sunday School teachers will start explaining natural selection, mutation, the fossil record, etc....to the kids.

Isn't theirs a zero sum game?

They are right and everyone else is wrong.

I would argue that a core element of the Christian faith should be humility; the recognition that we, as mortals, don't have all the answers.

Bryant
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it's when mythology is accepted as fact that problems arise.

Alas, I didn't do well in some of my science classes. But I've always had a layperson's interest in science. Plate tectonics--a relatively new idea. Outer space--we've learned so much about other planets & other stars since my childhood. Evolution--some of my childhood dino facts have proven untrue--science itself "evolves." Although I'm also fond of the pre-dinos & big furry elephants that walked with humans. (Yes, I spent most of last Saturday watching the Discovery Channel.)

Actually, "mythology" is the study of myth & legend--not swallowing your local mythic system whole. The Classical Greeks invented it to explain why Zeus behaved in such an undignified fashion, changing into bulls, showers of gold, etc.--just to have his way with various damsels. Perhaps, the mythologists said, this reflected the invasion of Greece by their Zeus-worshiping ancestors & the conquest of shrines devoted to local goddesses. Or maybe Robert Graves said that. Well, old Joe Campbell could put the whole thing into perspective. And I understand how the actual life of a rabbi born around the year 1 was conflated with various myths & legends of the Mediterranean lands. It doesn't lessen my respect of those who follow the teachings of Jesus--but I'm appalled by those who see the whole Bible as 100% literally true.

But, since my childhood, there was no conflict. At home, we had plenty of dino books--& collections of myths & legends of many lands. Back in my semi-rural school in the 50's, there was no conflict, either!

But I agree I dont want to live in a america where people are forced to adhere to anyone elses religious beliefs. PS how is the the handicap accesse case your working bro?

Teach their creation myths as a fact?

Children should learn these views and make up their owns minds about whether or not Chemistry beats Alchemy, whether Astronomy beats Astrology, whether MD's are better than Witch Doctors, etc

Also, I want them to be taught at least 100 of the various Creation Myths that exist. They should make up their own minds as to which one is more believable.

On a side note do fundies equate chemistry with witchcraft except less eye of newt. JK :)

...before the fundies co-opt the language to add credence to their dogma.

people. People take many different paths to spirituality, and I'm certainly not going to call people stupid for choosing a different path from my own. They're not all raving lunatics or hateful jerks like Pat Robertson.

Still, if you're referring to "Intelligent Design", I agree it has no place in science classrooms, because it's not science.

Ok, I recognize this is going to sound preachy and ranting...but it's one of the perks of sprouting white hair.

Undoubtedly, fundamentalists have been fighting against opposing developments in both progressive religion and secular knowledge and the arts since fundamentalism began.

The contemporary fundamentalist agenda isn't going to go away until one side exterminates the other. Personally, I'm not for establishing and maintaining a police force with such a genocidal approach. I'm not for that even if it would silence the painful voices of what I believe to be potentially harmful disinformation.

As a biologist who has taught evolution to students ranging from freshmen thru graduate students I can say that Kansas teachers will not find ID that hard to mention and dismiss as a non-scientific notion required by the state to be included in a course. I believe that sort of honest treatment of the Kansas curriculum standards will damn it among the hungry minds of inherently rebellious anti-authoritarian adolescents.

We, as Progressives and Liberals, accept as a principle of our society the latitude of personal choices in both religious and political belief. In that acceptance we must realize that as members of a society it is inevitable that a belief conflicting with our own will be imposed on us by either friends, family, teachers, groups or government. We will struggle with these as they arise.

It is part of our system. It may be part of all social systems.
The struggle between different degrees of fundamentalist and progressive forces in this land has been going on at least since the European colonization. If we knew their history, a similar conflict would probably be revealed in the societies of the first peoples on this land, too.

I am not suggesting that we abandon any struggle. I am not suggesting that ideas that harm people should be allowed to work without opposition. I am suggesting that the freedom to struggle is worthy of maintaining, even if our opponents use it. Those opponents are fellow citizens, and they are legitimately free to have their own beliefs even as we struggle against the unwarranted imposition of their beliefs in our lives. Creationists and ID'ers have utterly lost their argument in the venue of science, but it really wasn't intended to win there. They've taken their struggle into political venues where rules and values other than scientific ones apply. They have a victory of sorts in Kansas. They suffered a set back in Dover, PA.

The defense of evolution in public school curriculum is not so impoverished that it must reduced to name calling of those who don't accept it. Neither is it so important that we should abandon the principle that free people, if they are to truly have the dignity of the freedom we idealize, must be free to think, believe and even advocate for opportunity to live according to their beliefs.

It lets them embrace the myth, while still acecpting science and getting to pretend that they have an open mind.

a scientist who just happened to be a christian.

that could conflict with it.

They don't just want to show the hand of an intelligent creator, they have to attack natural selection, and the evolution of species, and maintain that man and dino's roamed the earth together at one point in time. That's much more that just an intelligent force in all of this, it's attempting to discredit scientific theory because they are theories and works in progress.

Frankly, I think I had a common ancestor with the noble otter.

understanding the universe. There is a spirit in all things, even the sun, the waters. Science does not understand the spirit. However medicine which uses science in the main, is coming to be more open about spirit and if your spirit is in distress, your body will be negatively affected and over time can break down. I am excellent in the sciences and logic and I embrace mythology.

You can embrace mythology without believing it to be true. The ancient Greeks and Romans did this much better than we do in modern society.

Believe all you want about spirits, but don't expect anyone else to follow along unless you can prove the existence of whatever it is you mean by "spirit."

though I think I was crucified in a past life, ha, ha ha.

They just belong in different domains. You can believe in a Creator, or Intelligent Design, without it impacting the scientific study of how it all works.

By the way I am not supporting the teaching or even mentioning of Intelligent Design in science classes -- far from it. That belongs in a philosophy class, or a religion class, or church. It is not falsifiable, so, it ain't science.

Conversely, science should not be taught in a way that implies that it can determine the existence, or not, of God, or a deity, or deities, or Intelligent Design. Science simply does not address that issue.

Why is this so hard to understand?