White Phosophorous... Wheres the outrage!!!!

I'm completely devastated by the news that we are using weapons of mass destruction against the Iraqis.

What f***ing hypocrisy. I am totally in shock that the US govt. would do such a thing!...what irony!!!.. We go to war base on lies that Iraq will use chemical weapons on us and WE ARE THE ONES that are doing it to them...

But, I don't see the outrage...not even here.... If this is proven beyond a doubt... BUSH MUST BE IMPEACHED and held as a war criminal!!

Don't you realize that girl from Alabama's still missing in Aruba?

Priorities, please!

:toast: :rofl: :spray:

hasn't been sworn in yet, either.

W and his minions do, bar nothing IMHO.

was going crazy yesterday on her radio show about this. IT IS DISGUSTING. I am embarrassed to be an American today!

as were many many of us here at du and non msm!!

this is not a secret nor has it been!!

its been investigated by all the british papers, asian papers, french papers, german papers, canadian papers...
this was all over the internet when the itailian journalist was shot at..trying to leave iraq..they killed one of her rescuers..this was all over randi and malloy..its been discussed over and over again..but do not think you will get this info from the bush dick suck msm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! not in this country!!

not from the sob's who are destroying our constitution!!

hell no when this story was all over the world we were looking at micheal jackson and cobi bryant!



this is not new news...

but too many americans are too damn lazy to look for the real news...

there has been outrage..by me and many many on the internet , many many here on du did everything we could to get this story out to msm..we did media blitzes..we posted all over msn aol message boards..and we were called liars...

this didn't just start in fallusia..it was part of shock and awe as welll

and i know many here on du that were working their asses off to get this story out!

with no help from americans who don't want to know the truth..and from a media giving blow jobs to bush....

fly

Well its out now... lets see if MSM picks up on it!

I posted this yesterday. From a CNN "in bed" reporter.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5296678&mesg_id=5298745

BTW..thanks fly for reminding people about the Italian journalist and :hug:!!!!!

The rest of the world sees what we are doing. Here in the US, the majority is perfectly content to keep their blinders on. The US populace is so easily manipulated and controlled it is shameful.


AValdoux

the people over there. They still believe they "have it coming to them" since 911.

it makes it easy.

or how they will one day be the terrorists full of revenge that our children and grand children will deal with..and they will be fully justified!!

fly

Then it was napalm--now it's white phosphorus. I HATE these people degrading America.

napalm used in vietnam was gasoline based..this new stuff is airplane fuel!! the only difference..does the same thing..melts skin..inhaled destroys lungs immediately burnss and melts ones insides... and it is all irriversable!!

fly

unless a pile of wet mud is near by

White Phosphorus, most of America is asleep to these crimes; hence no outrage as they 'see and hear no evil spoken of'.

world last fall!!

and our msm said nothing!! zero zip..when the world was screaming about it!!

s c r e a m i n g ..about it...

and when our government tried to shut up the italian journalist when she was rescued from her kidnapping...and one of her rescuers was murdered by our government..they were trying to kill her to shut her up...and not let her inside info out..do you really think... now.... that it wasn't our pys opps that kidnapped her???

the fucking * admin has been and will continue to kill anyone who puts their policies and their corrupt murders of iraqi's and our troops in front of the american publics eyes!!

these people in our white house are bold faced murderers...

and they have a very complicit audience!!

wake up americans....

fly

murdered? Do you have links for this? I vaguely remember the coverage, but had no idea it had anything to do with W.P....

I know many people (especially people who vote for Republicans against their interests) who never read a newspaper or watch any news, much less follow stories on-line.

Some people probably are just stunned and feeling helpless about it.

They aren't chemical weapons any more than explosives are. They aren't designed to kill by chemical interaction with human organs, and they aren't weapons of mass destruction as their damage is localized and not designed to drift over battlefields.

/end

Important here to get our terminology straight. WP is an incindiary. Good for setting a vehicle or a building on fire, inappropriate for use against people.

If thats not fucking chemical warfare WTF is!!

Sorry.. don't have the link handy.

military for a long long time. Give me a break. Unless the clothes are made of nomex or some other very good flame retardant they won't be worn again. Man, some people will believe anything.:shrug:

your body is made of 70 percent water, inhaled right into your lungs you slowly suffocate to death while the flesh is burned off your body.

It doesn't target clothing, there are pictures out of Fallujah their clothes are completely intact. Here is an example

when you leave a dead body in the sun, it will turn black soon. We don't experience this in the West, but that's what happens. The missing flesh of the nose and mouth, that could be from inhaling WP powder from the air. But this person did not get hit directly by WP - he would have no flesh left on him if he did. I know this is a grisly subject, but let's not yell "WP" when we see a blackened dead body.

substance or compound is white phosporous and is it inert?

Napalm was jellied gasolone but besides that, airplanes run on high-test diesel call JP4 or JP5 - tanks that have diesel engines can run it too, or did you not know that either?

it is airplane fuel...don;t tell me thats not a wmd!! its chemical warfare..there is no other name for it..and it is outlawed by the entire international world..and even signed by us in 1997 as outlawed!

it eats the the flesh even under face masks of our own troops...

don't tell me thats not a wmd!!!!!!!!!

its worse than sarin ..and we went to war over sarin !

fly

tendency to do that. White Phosphorous is used in two different ways. One way it in a grenade or other small device that's placed on top of enemy equipment and ignited - and it burns hot enough to melt through any steel until it hits the ground and probably keeps going. It's also used as an illumination flare, because it burns incredibly brightly.

It is NOT a nuclear, biological, or chemical weapon. They used to be called NBC weapons, but GE lobbied to have it changed so "Weapons of Mass Destruction" was coined.

Battlefield chemical weapons are classified of weapons that only harm people, they are no good against hardware. There are irritant agents that can cause severe blistering ( in the lungs if inhaled ), there are nerve agents which effectively shut you down as a human, there are oxygen-transfer blocking agents which means you suffocate ( or drown in your own blood ) and there are a few other types of chemical weapons that don't need to be listed.

What I'm saying is that WP isn't designed or designated as a WMD by ANY country. Now, using it against civilians is both brutal and underhanded as hell, and I definitely don't condone it but you must understand that WP is not a WMD. Because when you go telling all your friends and neighbors that we are using WMD against Iraqis, and one of them who knows a thing or two about warfighting asks you which WMD we've been using and you say "WP", then you're going to be immediately discredited as an idiot. I'm not calling you an idiot, I'm saying that's what you'll end up looking like in the eyes of the people you've been telling this.

So, like I said, it's brutal and horrible to rain fire down on people, but White Phos is NOT technically a WMD. Argue instead about the U.S.'s skirting of the rules of humanitarian rules and regulations by detonating illumination flares far lower than they are designed, in order to wipe out vast swatches of people.

I hear that's a legit use. But they know that when enough of it is tossed on top of a city block, it does kill everybody in it, so it's very tempting to use it in a pinch. Especially when they think noone is watching. The military is just going to admit the legit use and then it's going to be an uphill fight to prove malicious intent. Tough cookies for the Iraqis though. :banghead:

in fallusa!

fly

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5288550&mesg_id=5288651

I couldn't bring myself to post afterward. It left me in tears and made me sick to my stomach - not the images I saw; although horrific, I was prepared for the pictures. What made me ill is the knowledge that this is being done in our name by the government (allegedly) elected to represent us. I've said it before, and I'll keep saying - junior & co do not represent me or anything that I believe to good and right and just.

I'm sending this to my senators and congresscritter with a demand for an explanation.

THERE IS NO EXCUSE - NONE - FOR THIS TYPE OF ACTION. PEOPLE DON'T TREAT PEOPLE LIKE THIS!!!!!!

the problem with this story is that until it makes it out of blog sphere land... I mean the New..stainment has other priorities and photos like that of that kid in Vietnam that made it to the cover of time are not it

They just do polls to see if people really care, and that is their contribution. Bandwagon bimbos.

WP has been used for decades, its just part of our high explosive arsenal, only in this case its a nasty metal that burns right through people. Hardly on the scale of Nap omb, but not bad at the low level where it exists (used in projectiles ranging from hand held to large artillery shells). Hardly what anyone would call a weapon of mass destruction either as far as that goes. Not nice, but on the scale of shit we use in battle its a lightweight.

White Phosphorus is NOT a weapon of mass destruction.

"A basic and deliberately limited definition for the term weapons of mass destruction, also known as WMD, comes from the National Strategy to Combat Weapons of Mass Destruction of 2002:

"Weapons of mass destruction (WMD)--nuclear, biological, and chemical--in the possession of hostile states and terrorists represent one of the greatest security challenges facing the United States." Also included in this category are missiles capable of reaching both the United States and U.S. interests abroad."

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Weapons_of_mass_destruction


Unless the definition is limited (IMO) it dilutes the meaning of the designation. By your standard, almost all conventional munitions qualify as WMD (which means that Bush was right when he said that Iraq had WMD). See the trouble with generalizations?

Democracy Now had a very informative piece on this yesterday, it's extremely disturbing to see the results of what we have done to innocent people. There are no words.


Today marks the one-year anniversary of the U.S. assault on the Sunni city of Fallujah when U.S. and Iraqi military forced out the town's residents, bombed hospitals and buildings, attacked whole neighborhoods, and denied entry to relief workers. In a North American broadcast exclusive, we bring you an excerpt from a new film that accuses the U.S. of using white phosphorus as a weapon in the Fallujah attack.

10,000 buildings were destroyed, with thousands more seriously damaged. At least 100,000 residents were permanently displaced, over 70 U.S. soldiers were killed, and the Iraqi death toll is unknown. Independent journalist Dahr Jamail was a one of the few un-embedded, independent reporters in Iraq at the time. On our program, he first reported U.S. troops were using chemical weapons in Iraq.

* Dahr Jamail, speaking on Democracy Now!, November 2004:
"I have interviewed many refugees over the last week coming out of Fallujah at different times from different locations within the city. The consistent stories that I have been getting have been refugees describing phosphorus weapons, horribly burned bodies, fires that burn on people when they touch these weapons, and they are unable to extinguish the fires even after dumping large amounts of water on the people. Many people are reporting cluster bombs, as well. And these are coming from the camps that I have been to, different people who have emerged from Fallujah anywhere from one week ago up to on through up toward near the very beginning of the siege."

Almost one year after these allegations came to light, a new documentary claims to provide fresh evidence of the use of chemical weapons in Fallujah. In the film, eyewitnesses and ex-US soldiers say white phosphorus bombs were used in Fallujah. Rai says this amounts to the illegal use of chemical weapons and says they were used indiscriminately against civilian populations.

In a North American broadcast exclusive, we bring you an excerpt from the film.

* "Fallujah: The Hidden Massacre," a documentary by Sigfrido Ranucci and Maurizio Torrealta. Broadcast today on the Italian state television network RAI.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/11/08/1516227

I will certainly watch yesterdays show TONIGHT

Thanks...

and calling it what it is not will not help...

It is nasty stuff

but it is NOT NAPALM

"White phosphorous" creates an image of a science lab. "Napalm (equivalent/substitute)" invokes Apocalypse Now.

It would be an effective use of language.

a cloud of white dust that eats skin and water, gets ingested into your lungs and throat so you slowly suffocate to death.

Your right it is not like Napalm, with this stuff there are no survivors to tell about it.

many many of us were getting this story out last fall and at the beginning of this war..but no one would listen!!!!!!!!!!!!

it took a documentary for anyone to perk up their ears nowwwwwwwww!!

there were reports out all last fall about women and children dead in the streets of fallusia , with their skin melted off..and a senior grand ma...and dogs were eating their caracsses..and then the dogs were dying right away..i wish i could find those articles in my files..but i have lots of articles about the napalm ..it was in all the foreign papers last nov...

and yet americans were either 1. kept unaware because they didn't get the info from usa msm..or 2. americans didn't give a shit enough to keep up on what our government is doing in their name, by not looking any further than msms here in the usa!!

many many of us were getting this info out here on the internet and through ltte, or articles written by many of us..yes i wrote an article in a fla newspaper about it..and i was called a lair by many of my fellow americans!

its about damn time americans turn the fucking msm down and start reading foreign papers..
go to canadian papers..go to british papers..this was investigated by almost all british papers..and yet silence on our side of the pond...

its about time all of us hold our media responsible for their part in this murder!! and their destruction of our constitution...

this is not new news to many of us who have been involved in knowing whats really going on and reporting on it...but you will never find any truth in msm!! not now not ever until we the people take it back ...

fly

to "bring the wealth back to america, we don't care how" has decided to use our blood and treasure to secure their position in the world.

And "their position" includes outsourcing all those middle class jobs we thought they were propping up.

And someday soon, the methods they use to "pacify" foreign opponents will be turned on us.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/printer_110805Z.shtml

the video, seeing it.. I'm so filled with rage and sadness, when does it end? When do we demand they stop? Stop the torture, stop using a chemical weapon against iraqis.
Just STOP!
I swear it, I will not vote for a Dem in 2008 for president who does not have a withdrawal plan for Iraq. I will not! I'll blow the vote on the candidate who does.

Why isn't talking to this double Agent for Iran, one of the persons who caused several thousands of people to die, why is it NOT Treason even talking to Chalabi!!!!

Chalabi should not be on American soil!

is bawling about bombs in hotels in Jordon. What a mess their bosses have created on this planet. Bush and Blair should be arrested for war crimes and sent to the Hague or one of their illegal lock ups.

What an amazing coincidence that this takes over just as the Fallujah genocide hits the airways.

Edit - add.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9969965/


Rate it up and email it!!

That they do these things...and that they do them in our name.

I hate this administration, their lies and deciets, but don't misconstrue this White Phosphorus story. WP is NOT a chemical weapon. It is used as an incindiary device to mark locations and start fires. It is not a chemical weapon.

www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts103.pdf

The Italian documentary say it was used as an anti-personnel device. And, when White Phosphorus is used as an AP device, it becomes a chemical weapon.

By your definition, any explosive is a "chemical weapon".

HIGHLIGHTS: White phosphorus is a waxy solid which burns easily and is used in chemical manufacturing and smoke munitions. Exposure to white phosphorus may cause burns and irritation, liver, kidney, heart, lung, or bone damage, and death. White phosphorus has been found in at least 77 of the 1,416 National Priorities List sites identified by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA).

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts103.html

I dont necessarily disagree that it is a nasty thing, but grouping it in the category of "chemical weapons" such as anthrax, ricin, mustard gas, etc, is a complete misrepresentation of the facts.

Headlined at dkos right now.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/11/9/164137/436

C'MON PEOPLE, IT IS A CHEMICAL WEAPON!!!

!!!!HUGH!!!!1!1!

then tell us its not a chemical..airplane fuel is a chemical!!!!!!!!!!

and when it was gasoline in vietnam it was a checmical..tell me gasoline is not a chemical when it is made into a waxy formula!!

this airplane fuel was made into a waxy formula !!

thats a freaking chemical weapon!! when used on human life!

that melts flesh and melts organs when inhaled!

fly

of the Italian production at http://www.chris-floyd.com/fallujah

as well as some snippets from Mark Manning's "Caught in the Crossfire" which was compiled from what did NOT get stolen when he came back from Iraq.

The White Death
By Chris Floyd


The film is shocking and powerful -- but it shouldn't be news. Credible evidence of American use of white phosphorous shells and napalm in Fallujah was presented in public nine months ago, by a top official of the pro-American, pro-occupation, Bush-approved Iraqi interim government. I first wrote about it in my Moscow Times column on March 18. (This link should take you to the MT article. If there is any difficulty, try this link.) I'll be writing more about the new documentary in the MT column for this week, but Rich has already got the goods in his report.

Below are some excerpts from the March 18, 2005 MT column, "Filter Tips: Muzzling and Massaging the Message of War":


at http://www.chris-floyd.com/fallujah/

I WAS SENDING TO EVERYONE IN FLA DEM PARTY, I SENT OUT TO MY LARGE INTERNET GROUP..and i had them posting it all over the internet message boards....we did media blitzes to all of the media..and yet most americans were cluessless about this..and i many cases called us liars for "spreading" what the thuglicans called propaganda!!

i fucking hate rethugs..have i told any of you that lately??????????

fly

Look at Gulf I vets. Their health statistics are Horrible, including a high rate of birth-defects!!

Warning: Strong Content: Women and Children, animals, and buildings, Depleted Uranium, Napalm, and Mortuary Services in Falujah.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10907.htm

Mark 77 Firebomb

"We napalmed both those (bridge) approaches," said Col. Randolph Alles in a recent interview. He commanded Marine Air Group 11, based at Miramar Marine Corps Air Station, during the war. "Unfortunately, there were people there because you could see them in the (cockpit) video.

"They were Iraqi soldiers there. It's no great way to die," he added. How many Iraqis died, the military couldn't say. No accurate count has been made of Iraqi war casualties.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/military/200308.....

.
? The testimony of a 16 year old girl who "watched the soldiers enter and shoot her mother and father directly, without saying anything. They beat her two sisters, then shot them in the head. After this her brother was enraged and ran at the soldiers while shouting at them, so they shot him dead." This is reported by respected American journalist Dahr Jamail of the Inter Press Service.
?
Another account comes from Dr. Salem Ismael who describes Marines coming into a home of non-combatants, a witness describes: "my father and neighbour approached the door, the Americans opened fire on them. They died instantly. Me and my 13-year old brother hid in the kitchen behind the fridge. The soldiers came into the house and caught my older sister. They beat her. Then they shot her. But they did not see me. Soon they left, but not before they had destroyed our furniture and stolen the money from my father's pocket."
?
Dr. Khalid ash-Shaykhli, an official at Iraq's health ministry, told a press conference held at the Baghdad health ministry building that the U.S. military used internationally banned weapons during its deadly attack in November 2004. He said that research, prepared by his medical team, "prove that U.S. occupation forces used internationally prohibited substances, including mustard gas, nerve gas, and other burning chemicals in their attacks in the war-torn city. . . all forms of nature were wiped out in that city. I can even say that we found dozens, if not hundreds, of stray dogs, cats, and birds that had perished as a result of those gasses."
?
There have also been reports of the United States military using napalm-like weapons in Fallujah describing "bombs exploded into large fires that burned peoples' skin even when water was dumped on their bodies." Aljazera states: "The reports of the use of napalm in civilian areas are widespread." The Sunday Mirror reported on November 28, 2004 "Since the American assault on Fallujah there have been reports of ‘melted' corpses, which appeared to have napalm injuries. Last August the US was forced to admit using the gas in Iraq." Napalm was banned by the United Nations in 1980 for use against civilians. While the State Department has denied the use of napalm, the widespread reports by people on the ground require a more thorough response. The Independent on Sunday quoted an American commander, Colonel James Alles of Marine Air Group 11, admitting the use of napalm in Iraq. Some reports have described the substance as "reformulated" napalm.

http://democracyrising.us/content/view/203/151/

Mark 77 bomb

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.


The Mark 77 is a US 750-lb (340-kg) air-dropped incendiary bomb that carries 110 gallons (415 litres) of a fuel gel mix that is the direct successor to napalm.

Mk-77s were used by the US Marine Corps during the First Gulf War. Approximately 500 were dropped, reportedly mostly on Iraqi-constructed oil filled trenches. Thirty Mk-77s were also used in the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

Use of incendiary bombs against civilian populations was banned in the 1980 United Nations Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons. The US has not signed this agreement although they did retire use of napalm. The Mk-77 is the only incendiary bomb currently in use by the United States military. Another incendiary weapon - white phosphorus - is allegedly being used as an incendiary weapon in the current Iraq War. White phosphorus or 'Willie Peet' is used primarly as a smoke-screening agent. Only the US and Russia continue to invent and use gelled fuel bombs.

The chemical used differs from napalm of the Vietnam War era in that it is based on kerosene and a polystyrene-like gel and reportedly contains an oxidizing agent. This will make it even more difficult to put out once ignited. The official designation of Vietnam-era napalm bombs is the Mark 47. Mk-77s are commonly referred to as napalm in US Military slang.

The US military has issued denials against articles claiming the use of napalm in cases where it seems that Mk-77s had actually been deployed (see referenced articles). The Pentagon has claimed that the Mk-77 has less impact on the environment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_77_bomb


Children fleeing a napalm strike, Vietnam , 8 June 1972.



one exerpt showed footage of what looked like cluster munitions used at night. That munition, was in fact, M-825 improved smoke. It's a 155mm artillery delivered obscurant.



This image from video made available by the website of RaiNews24, the all-news channel of Italian RAI state television, as part of a documentary aired in Italy Tuesday, Nov. 8, 2005, which allegedly shows white phosphorous being used by U.S. forces in Iraq in November 2004. The documentary alleges the United States used white phosphorous shells 'in a massive and indiscriminate way' against civilians during the November 2004 offensive in Fallujah. The report said the shells were not used to illuminate enemy fighters at night, as the U.S. government has said, but against civilians.(AP Photo/RaiNews24,ho)



Read the truth here:http://hannah.smith-family.com/archive/000929.html

That's a hard thing to say.

I'm trying hard not to hate these people, but I have for a long time wondered how they can go about their normal lives APPROVING of DEATH and DESTRUCTION on Others. It's very puzzling.

please explain. The history of the US is well documented and very consistent.

Also it is not "we", you did not order those bombings so be accurate with your adverbs and don't place blame on yourself and many others who are trying to stop these war crimes.

It is very imporatant to escape the matrix and see clearly what the foundation of the nation is and what has driven foreign policy of this nation for several decades running through many administrations. In doing so you will see the atrocities in the current version of the Iraq war as really business as usual. Still disgusting and to be protested against with our every sinew. This goes all the way back to the "settlers" and the appropriation of lands for the mercantilists.

If you ever get a chance read de las Casas diary entries and trace the nations path to where it is today

usage, in this case, some aspect of "We" that is NOT identical with what I refer to when I use the first person plural, We.

our constitution holds us accountable for what our government does..it is done in our name..'we the people" is us...and when it has the name of the united states of america on it it is "we"

that means :" we " are responsible to remove anyone who does anything against our treaties, and intenational law, and US constitutional law!!
that constitution holds us responsible to know and educate ourselves what our government does ..and anyone who gets in our way to removing those responsible must also be held accountable ..ie congress...every person in this government represents me...and you ..and every american!!

fly

And who was the "we"? The landowners-The gentry. They never intended for the peons to be included.

no illusions

They do not represent me nor do I need that. I represent myself, on good days.

And yes I believe it is our duty to educate ourselves and others as well to stand in the way as best we can in the face of a tyrannical system of governance. For me it is not a matter of constitution but of conscience.

TATA to TINA

This Congress, and all others to varying degrees, represents the interests of the equestrian class.

So are we exactly what the middle easterners have been calling us all this time?

at BushCo AND their prefab intelligence and their prefab journalists and the lack of coverage of this AND the use of "improved" napalm in Fallujah. These ghouls can do no wrong, and even if they do, it was for the right "patriotic" reasons. They are destroying our country at home and around the world. And they love doing it.

"BUSH MUST BE IMPEACHED" - indeed, and I'm beginning to believe he will be. It's either that, or we are living in the twilight of America. Yeah, I'm outraged, too.