Wow, the leave your cart behind at Wal-Mart thread stuns me a bit......

Of course, the majority of sensible people recognize that this "protest" does nothing but cause a lot of grief for a bunch of minimum wage workers who are the ones MOST ABUSED by Wal-Mart. So the whole thing is really counterproductive.

But what shocks me is the attitude of some people:

1) Why do they work at Wal-Mart? It's a horrible place, they shouldn't be working there!

Wow, god forbid you ever have to take a low paying job at the only store in town because you have to eat that month, pay your bills, or feed your children. Are you willing to give them money so they can get out from under? There are hundreds of thousands of Americans who have jobs they hate. But it's all they can find and they had to make a choice. Shitty job or starve. Nice to see so many compassionate folks who recognize that, but again, the few who want to crap all over some guy for not having the capital to make a moral stand not to work for the evil Wal-Mart Corporation piss me off.

2) Who cares if they have to pick it up and put the stuff away? It's their job.

I worked retail. Not at Wally World, but another high volume type store. People who leave shit behind without putting it back are assholes. The bain of the store. You are rude and inconsiderate. I work my ass off to straighten shelves, sweep the floor, take things that have been misplaced and put them so customers can find them and not yell at me later for not having it. I took pride in my store being neat and clean. Why should I have to do it TWICE? If it wasn't clean, I got shit from my boss. You basically admit that the higher-ups treat the works like crap, and you want to go ahead and give them more shit and justify it by saying "They get paid, so what?". Okay, let me come over to your place of work and screw up what you worked on all day so YOU have to do it again. Hey, you get paid either way. Well, that is if some of you spouting off even have a real job and know what that's like.

Basically, I'm just surprised that anyone on DU would have such a piss poor attitude towards the people the Democratic party should be defending most......the blue collar American worker.

and,not to be tootin my own horn, but just so you see we agree, please see this:http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5330099&mesg_id=5330099

You stated your points very well btw.

I just wanted to make a broad statement. Not to keep you jumping all over the place,but here was my intent:http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5336086&mesg_id=5336612

This is only the fifth thread I've looked at and wondered what exactly is being proposed. :)

They get to pat themselves on the back for their "activism".

edited to add, some people are so poor they can't even afford to boycott WalMart.

piss-poor idea
And yes, poor people do shop at WM because stuff is cheaper, and they need to pinch every dime.

Having worked at some minimum wage jobs in the course of my career, I can attest that this type of "protest" would not enamor me to the cause.

When I lost my job back in '90 and had to take a low wage retail job because the unemployment rate around here was high. If some activists had tried to help my situation by trashing the store so that I could clean up after them, I sure would not have thought very highly of them.

Some nights I'd be so exhausted, I could hardly move. To think that I'd have to stay even later on a school night to unpack some *(&*(& carts - well, I wouldn't have been happy.

miserable by these "activists" you have the added burden of having to clean up the mess or get in trouble with the boss. And you have to do it fast. No overtime you know. What the hell are some of these people thinking?:wtf:

It's very shocking, and a little eye opening that more than a couple of people have no idea what the working poor go through each day.

Actually, here at DU that's more than shocking and eye opening. It's disgraceful. :eyes:

Making it harder to work there is contrary to that goal.

customer behavior and expectation. surprisingly i was wrong. i managed a dry cleaners. talk about abuse from customers, total child tantrums and behavior. lordy. girls working minumum wage, hot hot temperatures, on their feets, burning them self...... only to then have to deal with pissy and outrageous customers. yup

boy have we lost site of humanity

I went from clothing retail to banking thinking it would be better. I admit that banking customers for the most part are nicer. I have customers that bring me lunch and gifts. But when it comes to money people can get really crazy even though the problem is their own fault.

When I saw the idea for the protest it really angered me. It makes me wonder if the person who thought of it ever worked retail. When I shop now I find myself cleaning up stores. I pick clothes up off the the floor and put it back on hangers or fold it up. It may be a combination of just continued habit but also the fact that I understand how hard it can be.

I really don't understand some people. Fight for the unfairly treated workers by making them more miserable? I don't shop at Walmart. That is how I protest Walmart's ethics. But if I did ever have to go in there for some reason, I would have common sense enough to know that it isn't the worker in there that I should get back at. All I will do is make them miserable. It won't do anything to get to the corporate execs at Walmart. Its a thoughtless, inconsiderate and stupid idea. I don't blame you for being upset.

You know, the business about "Well, I just don't see how any good person could work in a nuclear plant" and the like. Here's a good discussion:

http://www.classmatters.org/2004_11/from_our_mouths.php

We had great examples of this form of classism here at DU when that Halliburton worker from Mississippi was kidnapped. Lots of people n high dudgeon, self-righteously declaring that nothing could make them work for Halliburton and that the "mercenary" deserved to be beheaded.

Then we found out why he took such a job: he had lost his farm, had no insurance, and his wife needed heart surgery. The keyboard commandos mostly slunk away at that point.

I was Dir. of Acctg. at the home office of a large specialty retailer, and my husband has worked many years in a large grocery chain. There are always some customers who, for whatever reason, put items where they don't belong. It IS a nightmare for the employees, and believe me, the people at the home office don't care a bit! It's THEM with the idea "you're getting paid, so damn it, just do the job" attitude! I've heard how the field supervisors treat the store managers and employees. They've made calls from MY office!

If you want to punish WM:

Picket in front of their stores. lots of people will just go somewhere else becasue they don't want ot get involved in trouble.

If you HAVE to shop there for financial reasons, ONLY buy what you absoluetly need, and buy the loss leaders. The Co. doesn't make any $$ on them (in fact they lose $) just to get you in the store. They're easy to spot. It's something you know always costs more and you can't believe what a deal it is!

Put off your Christmas shopping as long as you can. It will force stores to run early sales they didn't intend to have. They've got a lot of merchandise to move in a short time, and it's HAS to sell!

PLEASE! Don't punish already [unished employees!

This Corporate Fascist is one of the main reasons this Country is in the tank. Low wages, minimum benefits, can't support a family on their income. Why shop at this place? Cheap isn't a reason, it's cheap because it's from China.

Walmart pretending to be shopping and leaving carts full of stuff lying around that workers then have to clean up. And yes, some workers have to work there and at other low paying jobs because they have to eat and there is nothing else.

My other choices in town are Target, Home Depot, Sam's and Lowe's. I can't afford boutiques and they don't have my size, either. (I buy a good deal of items online at Overstock.)

All the groceries are chains, too. There is not a privately owned grocery or household store in town that I am aware of. There are a couple of applicance stores.

I don't want WalMart to go away. I want them to treat their employees better and I'm willing to pay more for that.

And those of us with kids (and pets) and limited income sometimes don't have the luxury of shopping blue, as much as we'd like to.

You don't have a local Pharmacy? I realize their prices are cheap but they do come at a cost. The #1 employer in Ohio is Walmart. Is this the country you want to live in?

of the circumstances that many many people live in?

Are you really that uninformed?

There are rural communities in southern Indiana, for example, where the choices for groceries are:

1. Walmart Superstore
2. Kroger (or Kroger subsidiary)

The pharmacy choices are:

1. Walmart Superstore
2. CVS


The answer to: "You don't have a local Pharmacy?" often is, uh, NO, as a matter of fact.

In both instances (food and medicine) Walmart isn't just a little cheaper, they are so much cheaper that by shopping there, people might be able to afford to heat their homes.

These choices that some posters are speaking of simply do not exist in a vast number of communities throughout the nation, particularly in rural areas.

to question if someone has a local pharmacy makes me uninformed? I realize Walmart is cheaper, it's because they buy all of their crap from China in bulk. Walmart is the #1 reason this country is in the tank.

that many many rural communities do not have local pharmacies?

Just asking.

P.S. Walmart (by itself) is NOT the #1 reason this country is in the tank. I don't like them either, but that is an oversimplification that doesn't even pass the Econ 101 test.

you obviously know everything so there's nothing more to discuss.
:shrug:

n/t

I can't imagine they have ever been poor enough themselves, or have lived in a location with limited choices, to understand. :shrug:

but to shop at WalMart. And to have others mock and condemn me for doing so right here at DU of all places just cuts to the bone.

Trust me -- there are MILLIONS of Americans like me!

I live on $688/month -- my SSDI (Disability) check -- and that is IT. That's my income, period. My lot rent (I live in a tiny and very old motorhome in an RV park) is $350/month, the cheapest I can find anywhere in Tulsa. Figure out for yourselves, you who would shame me for shopping at WalMart, how much that leaves me to live on....

BUT WAIT, there's more! Because I live so far below the govt's poverty line, I also get $80/month in food stamps from DHS, for which I am truly VERY grateful. I never -- and I mean NEVER -- buy food at restaurants, not fast food, not soft drinks -- ever.

WalMart has electric carts you can ride to shop, and that helps me a lot since I can barely walk. Often they are in use or broken down because thoughtless people damage them, but at least I can sometimes get one. None of the other grocery stores in Tulsa except Albertsons or Reasors, whose prices are waaay too high for me to afford, have riding carts for the disabled.

WalMart's prices are not just a little bit cheaper -- they are FAR cheaper. An item that costs two bucks at WalMart costs three bucks (or even more) elsewhere. That's a huge difference for someone like me and makes it possible for me to to heat my rundown dwelling in winter and cover the copay on my many medicines.

I have tried so hard to abandon WalMart and shop at other places -- not only because of my ire at WalMart's practices toward employees and our economy but because I LIKE to patronize small and local stores. I simply cannot afford their prices because they CANNOT buy in massive bulk from China or have the narrow profit margin WalMart does. And besides, most of them have gone out of business by now.

I, like so many others, am utterly powerless to control these forces in my world. So PLEASE don't shame people like me for doing what I already loathe having to do ... shopping at the ONLY store I can afford to shop at!

I'd like to see you who condemn me do otherwise on my income....

with everything you said.

I am so ashamed that you have to live like this in "the richest nation in the world." :eyes:

People who put down DU'ers that shop at Walmart...well I just can't say how I really feel about them.

Please don't listen to them. And know that there are plenty of us here at DU that do understand.

I live in a large, metropolitan region, and have many shopping choices.

I choose not to shop at Wal-Mart. I can get the same goods, just as cheap, or maybe pennies-on-the-dollar more, at other retailers. I have choice. I exercise it.

Since most DUers live in large, metro regions, many of us do not get life as a rural American.

I thank you for the education. I hope many others hear your message. While I tell my neighbors, friends, and coworkers why I don't shop at Wal-Mart, it would be unrealistic of me to preach to others who don't have choice.

Plus, I'm a service worker, and I think the Wal-Mart Cart idea is about the damned most insensitive, ineffective concept in political activism I've ever heard of. :-)

Amen. And thank you for your posts.

if it is just WalMart that I should be concerned about of is it a large chain issue. Because I can choose Target over Walmart, but there are no small stores left around here. All huge corporations.

Even if I have to go out of my way and pay more, it is worth not to spend a single dime at that place.

hard-to-restock items all over the store, why don't protesters of the anti-Walmart bent just leave notes in each of the empty carts throughout the parking lot?

The notes might say something like: Walmart's employment practices suck! The NEXT time I visit your store, I may decide to leave a cartful of hard-to-restock items in the isles inside your store instead of leaving notes in empty shopping varst in the parking lot outside your store.

It might get management's attention while giving the low-wage worker a break from having to restock cartloads of merchandise.

But I'd make it more simple:

!!!Organize!!!

*Insert contact information for a union*

that you must now, do to Wal-Mart's employment practices and political contributions, purchase somewhere else.

Go to every Wal-Mart you can and ask them if they have the Robert Greenwald documentary, Wal-Mart: The High Cost of Low Price, in stock. Ask management if they plan to order it.

always admire my activist buddies and how they can be so inspiring :evilgrin:

for remembering the blue collar American worker, and their ties to the Democratic party.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

When the blue collar workers and the "liberals" are left behind, who will the party represent?

It's a basic principle of trade unionism: Other Workers are Not the Enemy. Owners Are. Direct your anger, and especially your actions, towards management, not its victims.

To those who think this 'leave a cart behind' is a good idea, just be grateful that your life has given you options that do not involve having to consider working for Wal-Mart. Others are not so fortunate, and making their working lives harder should not be something we seek to do or applaud. This is the same unfortunate mentality that evidences itself in 'crank calling' working people. You don't know the circumstances of anyone else's life; therefore, you don't know what kind of grief your 'prank' is going to cause them. Have a heart, eh?

The only reason I would ever enter a Wal-Mart in the first place is if I had a position as a Union organizer. :) Now there'd be some damage!

It's a basic principle of trade unionism: Other Workers are Not the Enemy. Owners Are. Direct your anger, and especially your actions, towards management, not its victims.


Exactly! Do these "leave the carts" people think that it's any skin off the nose of management? Do they think executives have to come down from their lofty retreats to put that shit away?

And, as a COSTCO cashier, I can tell you that even wearing super supportive shoes, with extra supportive inserts that are probably too expensive for most Walmart workers to afford that there have been nights while doing "go backs" that my feet and shins have ached so badly I didn't feel like I could take another step. That I've literally had to use my hands to "lift" my legs into my car so that I could drive home, only to arrive too stiffened up to make it to my front door without hobbling like something out of the movie "Altered States".

I make probably two to three times as much as the average walmart employee, I'm not treated badly, and I love my job - but, anyone who would suggest leaving carts of merchandise around a store as some form of "protest" has NO appreciation of how grueling a long day on the floor is. They should be ashamed of themselves.

When I left work tonight the three girls scheduled till "close" (not YOUR close - OUR close) had seventeen carts of merchandise to restock. That's not including all of the random items left willy-nilly all over the sales floor. Unlike Walmart - they will be paid overtime if it's necessary, they're paid enough to have good shoes, and their supervisor will thank them for a job well done. Probably even show her appreciation with a "treat" that she's purchased for them out of her own pocket - but, they've already had a full day on their feet providing the best and fastest service they're capable of, and by the time their night is through their bodies will ache from the exertion of it all. Some too badly to lift their children into their beds.

Oh, and as a side note to any Costco shoppers who may read this:

If you decide sometime during your shopping trip that you don't want to purchase the frozen shrimp or fresh hamburger you picked up at the back of the store - please don't "hide" it in the flowers, the clothing, the candy..... Just hand it to us at the register, and we'll have someone put it back where it belongs. Please! I promise we won't be mad. Changing your mind is nothing to be ashamed of. Making us lose money because you have some weird pride/embarassment/squirrel impulse is.

Good grief! My personal principle: Everyone should have to chip in and help at all kinds of jobs so that we understand and respect what is involved in each other's work. Then again, maybe we could just use our imaginations to understand what others go through.

:think:

The main reason: They are too lazy to walk back to the right section to put it back. So they hide it or set it wherever.

The 2nd reason: They don't want you to think they were too poor to buy it. So they hide it.

there isn't one within 50 miles. :eyes:

Please tell your bosses that Southern Indiana exists. :hi:

Seriously though, I wanted to echo everything you said. I used to wait tables and I remember the pain you described. And, like you, I was able to buy good shoes (well, actually, my grandparents bought them for me when I got the job). I cannot imagine how awful it would feel to work in bad shoes.

The people who think this form of protest is ok have NO IDEA what a day in the life of the average retail worker is like. They can't, or they would never advocate such a thing. It's pointless and cruel.

employee I can attest to everything you are saying. I used to do Merchandise Returns so I know what a normal day looks like and I can't imagine if everyone went into a Costco and left a cart in protest.

When I first started I remember that same feeling of not being able to move after cleaning up at night. Thankfully I was paid overtime if necessary for the job that I did.

One thing I do remember is that when I was done with my shift and I looked out at my area, I could take pride in what I accomplished.

Those people that justify abandoning carts because they think that WM will pay these people either way are forgetting about the moral for these workers. Most people like to take pride in a complete job and that is hard to accomplish when there is a never ending supply of go backs that need to be returned. There are plenty of other more constructive ways to show that you care about the working conditions of the WM worker.

I personally like the receipt idea.

Well said.

If you want to antagonize the very people you are professing to "help", creating more work for them that they either won't get paid for or will force them to work more hours for the same shitty pay isn't the way to do it.

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Is it worth restocking some carts worth of goods, if the eventual payoff is health insurance?

That's just about as likely as getting health insurance from a "protest" designed so as to cause the lowest level of employees to do more work, off the clock if necessary. You really think management would give a crap?

This kind of crap already happens *all the time*. The only people who care are those who have to clean it up.

...to serenade them through the evening as they clean up the horseshit mess left by phony Soccer-Mom/Dad "Revolutionaries" and Che-lite (extremely "lite") wannabees?

MAN THE BARRICADES!

:sarcasm:

the grape workers got health care, not fiddlers.

Maybe you've been studying different history books than I have, though.

i agree that if health care were put on the table this might be worth it. But i don't think the leave a cart person really thought it all through. In conjunction with a Union organized walkout this could be effective (make the managers pick everything up). But it would take a lot of work and planning to coordinate... "salters" to inform the employees and collect evidence.
Solidarity
Community Support
Multi-Pronged actions

convincing people that Unions are NECESSARY is becoming harder and harder... there is much propaganda out there...

Remember who got us-
40 hour workweek
holiday pay
weekends
grievance procedures
REPRESENTATION

peace out

There is no union there, that's one of the issues people are fighting for.

are people who employ themselves at the target organization months prior to any action. They observe the working conditions (collect evidence?), get paid like any other employee, try and gauge the workers knowledge of unionization (perhaps offer literature or otherwise help inform employees of union options and support... the SEIU and Unite! have specifically stated Wal-Mart as a target organization for future grassroots activist campaigning). It's somewhat like being a spy (NOC maybe, because i don't think you're allowed to have any affiliations with a union) but it has been an effective way in the past to create a union where there was none before. Organizing a walkout would require an informed worker base, community support, and Nationwide support from recognised unions. As for the leave a cart thing... i maintain that it could be effective in conjunction with a walkout.
As a side note:
why not try and convince Costco to commit to building a store whenever a Wal-Mart is shut down by Union action? Maybe we could highlight Costco and help them to grow and to actively support unions.

It makes more sense now.

The concept is that since the GOP has gained control of all three branches of government by enacting stupid ideas which trample on working people, maybe we'd have success trying that too.

If you've never worked retail - I did briefly a few years ago as a second job to clear up some bills - you have no idea what a pain in the ass this would be to workers who have spent an entire eight hours on their feet dealing with all manner of customers and assorted crap from managers. This is a monumently stupid and counter productive idea. All you are doing is making low paid workers jobs even more miserable and management won't give a damn about some pointless protest. There are better ways to fight WalMart this is NOT one of those ways.

"Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough."
-- Franklin D. Roosevelt, 32nd US President (1882-1945)

I'm going to try this reply one more time. It kept bouncing back to the home page when I tried to insert a smilie icon. I got ya Telly maybe I just need some coffee :-)

:hi:

It is your freedom. There is no "right" place to leave a cart.
What an absurd concept that something designed to travel constantly
inand out of a grocery shop is described as being left in the wrong
place. But ha! Someone should try that.

If someone took ALL the carts 30 miles away, and left them in the
middle of a freeway, then likely they've been left in the wrong place.
Hello. Free will, means there are no rules, or social precedents or
politically correct blowjobs for facile poeple.

The idea is that the carts are full of stuff that are left randomly inside the store, which requires employees to go around gathering them to put the stuff back where it belongs.

If you take it out of the store, of course you're shoplifting. Not the best idea there either.

Whatever. I would offer a prize, 100 dollars cash, and a handshake
from sweetheart, for the most creative place to leave a wall mart cart.
It could be like a monthly contest. And a winner declared on the
underground... i mean, if you really want to get up to this, then we
can have a photograph competition of the best way to cause walmart
difficulty based on the geography of a trolley. (contest would include
walmart affiliates such as ASDA).

I used to work at a saveon, and if i put on that hat, from long ago,
i frankly cleaned up kid-barf, dog shit and all kinds of fucked up stuff
that customers do ALREADY, that i could give a toss if i had to
unload a 1000 carts. As long as i could get paid for wasting my life
on a time clock. Wearing fake ties, fucked up shirts, everyone i knew
used to steal somehow, whether it was pinching some extra gum, to
leaving things in the garbage bin, all in a way to supplement the low
wages, and the fixed income reality.

If lotsa poeple left carts like that, they'd have to pay me overtime
to put the stuff away... i don't buy the working man toil arguemnt
at all... help your friend earn doubltime!

You're obviously not very familiar with how this works now, especially at places like Wal-Mart. Do you know anyone who works at Wal-Mart? Ask them about overtime.

And double-time? :rofl: That's, well, that's a silly statement, indicative of just how little supporters of this little bit of craziness know about how businesses who employee minimum wage workers use their staff.

As I said in the original thread, this idea is asinine.

I stand corrected, double time is a thing of the past.

So leave a cart wherever, it is your free choice. There are no laws,
or expectations, it is an absurd frame to view choice and free will
as happening on the property of a corporation, Expecially at DU.

Yes, we all have the choice to be as obnoxious as we want to be.

And regarding your thinly veiled jab at the end, I believe you are intentionally not paying attention to what others are saying about why this is a bad idea. It has nothing, not one single thing, to do with "the property of a corporation."

Someone else in one of these threads said it best. What comes out of disagreements like this on DU is the class-ism otherwise well-meaning progressives have incorporated into their own thinking. If your only goal is to annoy or otherwise harm Wal-Mart, you've got your priorities all out of whack. The goal is, or should be, to assist the workers. Why do we hate Wal-Mart? I personally hate Wal-Mart mostly because of how it treats it employees, but also how it rapes the communities in which it establishes itself. I want the company to treat them better, pay them more, and invigorate the communities. I'm not going to do that by giving employees more work to do when nothing inherent to that work will force the company to increase any sort of worker benefit. You may as well argue to buy more from Wal-Mart. Using the logic you presented in this thread, it would have the same effect: more business means more work, which, again using your logic, means more hours, possibly overtime, and increased benefits. No, that's not reality either.

Corporations only answer to their sharholders. The shareholders don't
give a fuck. Then the only alternative IS direct action. And the war
is NEVER comfortable for the frontline troops. But the purpose of such
acts is to create civil unrest, hatred and further erosion of the
common.

I don't participate in the behaviour this thread complains about,
i don't endorse it either. I rather oppose making rules based
on politically correct "friendz" tv show logic... when civil unrest
was never so clean.

I'm sure that when cindy sheehan got arrested for sitting in front
of the white house, it took some extra wages on behalf of the police.
And maybe some people had to do some extra time, for her to express her
civil disobedience.

I see civil disobedience against the shareholders of a corporation,
and, along with burning cars in the parking lot, respect how people
who don't accept their voice totally muted in democracy, speak up with
actions, actions that cause trouble.

Is this supposed to have anything to do with the subject of this thread?

Leaving a shopping cart full of toys in the crapper bears absolutely no resemblance to the kind of civil disobedience necessary to effect change in this country. None. One supporter of this nonsense was at least truthful in this. It is a prank. It means nothing except to those who get to clean it up.

Let some minimum wage working slob pick up your mess while you get high, laugh like an idiot while watching Cartoon Network and blow your mind bragging to your stoner buds about how you really stuck it to the corporate power structure at Wal-Mart today, man....

I've "NEVER" done anything like that. I don't fuck people over, but i
do as well respect tolerance, and maybe a person has to leave a full
trolley of goods, for forgetting their purse at home. The reason to
leave a full trolley can be many.

This thread jumps to lots of conclusions about detractors all because
i said whatever and don't want to legislate a new politically correct
authoritarian code.

Do you know what this thread is about? The short version involves a "protest" of leaving a cart full of items behind in the middle of the store to show that you are boycotting Wal-Mart. Which only leads to a clerk or shelve stocker having to waste time putting them back. That was the point of me (being the OP) saying that all you are doing is giving some employee more crap to do. Not every employee so blissfully thinks it's fun it pick up after other people.

That's why people have no idea what the hell you've been talking about.

I suggested that persons ahve free will to act however, and that,
mnyself having been a cleark and shelf stocker in past career, i would
have simply restocked the cart, and if there were too many, maybe gotten
an extra hour of time after closing to clean up customer messes.

The op discusses the impact of doing such an act, leaving a cart, and
i suggest that it is a weak act, but that it could be very effective
if done on a mass scale, to drive a point home. If a whole community
did it, like say a whole church, 300 people, it would create overtime.

It is, as well, a political act, one of futility, and i'm explorig that.
You don't see any correlation to the subterfuge of your discussion,
well then... there you have it.

I worked retail until recently. If someone had done this camapign in the store I worked at, the managers would have just ridden the employees even harder to get it all put away by the end of the shift. The result would have been a lot of ticked-off workers, without it harming the corporation at all.

And I know you and your friends may have all "lifted" a few items, but that doesn't mean everyone does--I didn't. Working retail was miserable; neither management nor customers had any respect for cashiers as human beings, but to me, that didn't mean it was OK to shoplift things.

It is everyone's right to be a raging asshole, but it is also the right of those around them to call for respect and kindness.

Tucker

Stealing is a bit strong. I've experienced more food-theft, truth be
told, seen food theft, not white goods. If the warehouse workers leave
the gap between the truck and the building so they can squeeze in later
and steal something, is it an employee slave's responsibility to care?
Lots of people sqeeze by with minimum wage and a little white collar theft. To be moral is absurd, people have to survive, and when the
corporation takes such advantage of cashiers/stockers by low wages and
timeclock draconia... depending on the prison-slave sense of the work,
to take an apple off the plantation tree is the right of a plantation
slave. So i don't see anything wrong with people taking from a company
that takes from their fair deserve. I recall only taking candies and
gums, at the time, maybe an ice cream now and again, cuz i was a
stupid kid, but what i saw around me, with the adult employees was
hardened institutional disenfranchisement, low wages and people doing
whatever they needed to do, to get by.. no judement, a fact of life
for millions of ameircans.

I agree, working retail is miserable. And i'm for direct action on
both parts. If someone leaves a full trolley of goods in a shop,
the shop worker might remind them of the hastle, or the shop manager
can learn to keep security aleted of bad-faith customers.

I can only recall ever having left a shop without putting a cart away,
after realzing that all my money and credit cards were at home.
I accept that what you're really getting at is respect and kindness,
by courteous acts; i'm all for that... and you'd never have reason to
complain were i your customer.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

And every technology, every "improvement" by the corporate states
gets to eroding civil tolerances and standards for behaviour.

Had i left a cart in a shop in any other time of mankind, they'd
call it a lost sale and leave it at that.

Seriously the best post I've read all day! :)

and has not to do with computers. Gosh, they're getting illiterate,
were i to use carrier pidgeons, they'd not be able to read the
messages.

Your argument flippantly can suggest that people don't use GPS without
worshipping the US military, or that persons who oppose expoloitive
corporatism shouldn't use computeres becase they are sold by
corporations.

But rather, your argument "is" neo, and why you defend the status
quo with sarcasm. I suggest that neoliberalism is a dead end, you
can't actually engage in the argument, so rather, you re-cast it
as a sitcom and inject a witty line.

I'm a computer scientist, sir, and have been programming computers
since 1975. The work of touring and the creators of digital revolution
is not neo, but rather multinational research word done across
national borders. The amercian ignroance extends to thinking that
ameircan culture invented computers... and with this, hubris, that
without american arrogance, we must leave back to carrier pidgeons.

ha!

Back in my Usenet days, I once encountered a rather sophisticated bot that was programmed to reply to threads using words from the thread that were mixed with pre-programmed phrases about something else entirely. Before realizing what was happening, it was hard to decipher. The messages posted by this bot made some level of sense, seemed to be a response to the discussion, but they strayed randomly and strangely. It was like the poster was channeling random voices.

This part of this sub-thread is reminding me of that.

Here's your comment:

"And every technology, every "improvement" by the corporate states
gets to eroding civil tolerances and standards for behaviour."

The response to this, while admittedly sarcastic, struck firmly at the bizarre nature of your contribution to this discussion. If every technological improvement is truly eroding civil tolerances and standards of behavior, and if you seek to thwart this, you might well consider turning off your Internet connection and computer, those being technological improvements, and working with pigeons.

But of course none of this has anything to do with this thread, so I'll just leave that alone and assume you've decided to hijack this for some reason. Have fun with it.

In this thread, its been mostly personal attacks, artfully, using
insinuation, but ad hominem attacks never the less. I am compared to
a bot, to a mindless absent contributor, to a hateful stoner and all
for supporting a persons freedom to act.

I suggested that the right to the free pursuit of happiness is being
denigrated by a bunch of do gooding moralism, and that each technological
paradigm introduces new ways for that moralism to spread, like your
suggesting you've now got a corner on my intent in posting in this
thread.

My points are more than relevant in this greater discussion and those
of the lowlife assholes who can't make an argument without rude personal
attacks, even veiled in icing, leaves the real basis of who defends
walmart.... walmart defender... have fun with it.

Neither you nor anyone to whom they have been directed has addressed them in the slightest.

You slight me to being like a usenet bot.


Technology upgrades the meaning of our constitution in to anew medium,
but because the framers arn't looking, the rights are diminished
increasingly in newer mediums.

Your idea about this is a silly recommendation to use carrier
pidgeons, a total non-argument, if thats what you call an argument.

And so hmmm... in our first interaction, you've blown a lotta fluffy
accusations, and made a ludicrous suggestion.

If that's what you call an argument, then perhaps you need refer me to
the "other" posts where you make an argument.

Admittedly, I've allowed myself to be baited, but after I say this, unless you really want to address the point, I'm done.

My "arguments" are related to the subject of this thread. This sub-thread you started is senseless, and it's my fault for bothering to participate in it.

Now, in order, here are some of the comments I made you failed to address and the arguments I've offered that no one has addressed. Note that the argument I am making is nearly identical to the argument made by the OP, who has done so more eloquently than I, and no one has truly addressed that person's argument either.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5330026&mesg_id=5338552

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5337560&mesg_id=5339169

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5337560&mesg_id=5340244

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5337560&mesg_id=5340593

Go to the bookstore and buy Barbara Ehrenreich's "Nickel and Dimed in America." She writes about working at Wal-Mart and having to go around and pick up after people who are exercising their "free will" be basically being inconsiderate assholes. Then come back and tell me if you would like to be in such an employee's shoes.

I just don't get how making work (and in extension, life) more difficult for those who most likely have no other choice than to work at Wal-Mart is making a productive statement against the corporate machine.

The ghost of Sam Walton couldn't probably give a shit what we do with the store's merchandise or hardware. But the minimum-wage clerk whom this protest is trying to "help" sure does.

I've done some time in retail, fast food, and all that, am more than
familiar with the bottom line, a paycheck.

I don't perform the activities mentioned, and i reserve my right to
not pre-judge persons who might do such a thing. I believe my position
is ultimately progressive, as it preserves the human right to choose
and the sovereign power of the individual.

I confess, i'm guilty of participating in an utterly stupid argument,
that like the labrea tarpits, are ultimately not progressive, no
matter the neat black-hottub motif.

People get fucked on the bottom of modern retail, and as well, ALL
civil disobedience costs wasted silly resources. If 1000 people
all grow a cannabis plant, and overwhelm the justice system with
silly attacks on garden weeds, might this be any sillier. All civil
disobedience, even cindy sheehan's arrest on the white house gates
costs overtime and stressed resources, nickled and dimed.

And all along, the corporate operatives that control these companies
nickle and dime us all... and for all its futility, i can't blame
someone for takig it out on a bleedin' trolley. Of all the crimes
of humanity, from bombing, war making, grand theft, republicanism,
surely leaving an unpurchased trolley in a shop has got to be the
most trivial futile act of a defeated citizen.

There are worse jobs than restocking a trolley, and whomever does it
is doing it of their own free will. If they themselves are not making
this case, why are we makign the mythical case for them. this all
be silly.!

The fact of the matter is that if we want to hurt Wal-Mart, the best thing to do would be to hit the executives in the pockets, not hurt your fellow working man who has to stock the shelves and clean up the shit in the aisles and bathrooms.

Worker solidarity doesn't work if other workers are hurt for the fact that they're owned by the wrong master.

I worked in a store where I never ran out of things to do and if someone had done that to me, I think I might have blown a gasket. It was hard enough to keep the boss happy. If something got messed up, I had to work even harder.

being one. I live in a very small city in Ohio. All we have is Walmart and Kroger, neither of which is a "super" one. If I want to drive an extra half hour, north, south or west, I can find other stores. But my time and certainly my gas is worth a lot. I understand some people's gripes against WalMart but don't condemn those of us who have no choice.

And I agree with those posters here who say this protest only hurts the employees, not the upper management of WalMart. A long, long time ago I worked in two different department stores. It's hard work and no one deserves any extra crap. Find another way to protest!

You said you have no choice and then you said you have a Wal-Mart and a Kroger. That sounds like a choice.

I don't disagree with you, I just think I missed something.

(Wal-Mart and Kroger). While I'm not presuming in any way to speak for the poster (and I apologize for butting in), there aren't a whole lot of independent, locally-owned businesses around here anymore, so basically you're getting the same stuff at the same price, only under a different store sign. In some places in Ohio, and in Indiana as well, your options are that limited.

And the reason why there aren't a lot of small, independent retailers around anymore is because Wal-Mart, et al., have forced them out. When they close, that's always the reason: "We can't compete."

ACTIVISM....maybe done ONE day. IT IS A POLITICAL STATEMENT. And would be done in conjunction with the employees!!!! Damn. I bet SEIU has thought of something like this.

But, hey, if the majority of the employeess didn't 'get it,' then I am sure the tactic would not be used. I bet there are certain Walmarts that have employees that 'get it.' It could be done at those stores. Probably on the coasts....definitely not in the middle of America where everyone is scared of their own damn shadow.

And by the way.....the left merchandise would be under a 'frownie face' that listed the employees complaints....The Press would be there...IT WOULD BE ORGANIZED. HELL, maybe it would even be exciting for the employees....maybe they would realize that THE PUBLIC gives a rat's ass about their working conditions.

I give up....Unionism is dead in this country. Don't complain to me about how Walmart's Management treats its employees. I am truly shocked. whiners.

Fine. Except that nowhere in the original call to action do I see any mention of that. I can't speak for others on the thread, but that's what I found most off-putting about it. I'm not willing to take part in a protest that essentially asks me to piss on my fellow worker's leg and tell him/her it's raining.

Maybe I missed it though. Maybe it's in there.

You think some tired mother of three working two full time jobs to make ends meet is going to give a rat's ass about your lazy armchair activism? Do you think your leaving a cart full of stupid shit for her to put up will somehow inspire her to start a union? Walmart workers who try to unionize get fired. Most of these people need their job to pay bills and feed their families. How dare you self-righteously demand that THEY sacrifice what meager income they have so YOU can feel better about your sidelines activism? For someone so concerned about the labor movement, you sure seem to give a shit less about the actual workers.

"Make a stand! Make a stand!" When it comes down to feeding your kids and "making a stand," amazingly enough, most people choose their families above stupid facile political statements.

Edit: My dad's union, so don't EVEN try to accuse me of not caring about the labor movement. Leaving MORE WORK for the worker to do, along with a note explaining why you left that shit for them to clean up, will only make them hate you and your cause. Gee, if I were a Republican, I'd start leaving carts full of shit around WalMart with a note at the bottom explaining that I am an out-of-touch, suburban clueless "progressive" who treats blue-collar workers like adorable yet stupid animals and thinks that wearing a Che shirt makes me a revolutionary. Because I really can't think of a better way to convince average working people that we liberals really DO hold them in complete and utter contempt.

nt

I wish more people would read your post and put themselves in the shoes of the workers. Not everyone has the luxury to take a stand, take on the corporation, or organize a union.

the labor practices of Walmart that the public and employees could do together? With the Holiday shopping season approaching, this would be a great time to plan something. Don't you agree?

I was under the impression that liberals wanted to unionize Walmart...is that the goal or not? I believe it is the only way to get Management to treat employees fairly.

I have complete and utter respect for workers....I'm one of them. I would like to do something with the employees to bring publicity to the fact the Walmart management treats their workers like shit. That you are calling me the enemy tells me you could be some kind of pug anti-union mole trying to stifle efforts against Walmart's Management.

I want to hear your suggestions...and they have to be suggestions that will get publicity. Because isn't that the point? We want shoppers to shop elsewhere, right? Maybe that isn't what you want ... after all, if no one shops at Walmart, their profits will decrease and the associates will lose their jobs...right? So then maybe I should be shopping at Walmart?

I guess I am not clear as to what you want from Walmart's Management...and the public that supports worker rights. What tactics do you want to implement that will help get Management to increase wages and offer decent health care?

And please stop being so insulting to your fellow worker bee. Your assumptions about me are waaaaay off base. My wardrobe is Goodwill and my apartment, two rooms. And when I drink coffee, I fix it myself. OK?

With the possible exception of the OP, this is the best comment I've seen in any of these threads.

No way! It's a cheapjack way for clueless white-collar fucks to elevate themselves to a self-proclaimed position of progressive activism while making people with *real* jobs work harder.

Wanna make a statement against WalMart? DON'T SHOP THERE! You accomplish nothing by this act of self-absorbed bullshit.

"The Press would be there...IT WOULD BE ORGANIZED. HELL, maybe it would even be exciting for the employees....maybe they would realize that THE PUBLIC gives a rat's ass about their working conditions."

Whatever. The press could care less about some jackass leaving a cart full of cheap Chinese rubber dogshit in the aisle of a WalMart. And in case you hadn't noticed, the hordes of people shopping in those blighted, benighted hellholes is proof enough that the public as a whole couldn't care less about the employees of WalMart.

"I give up....Unionism is dead in this country. Don't complain to me about how Walmart's Management treats its employees. I am truly shocked. whiners."

Yes, unionism is dead in this country, and leaving shopping carts in the aisle won't resuscitate it. And as far as the whiners comment goes, you can shove it up your over-privileged ass! I've worked grocery retail for over 15 years. I don't whine - I work. What do you do, college boy?

(second that I have seen, there may be more)

Would you care to discuss that terminology?

Ass busting. Humiliating customer service jobs. Construction. Not what the pressed shirt and latte crowd do for their inflated paychecks.

Real job=survival job.

yikes.


don't shop at walmart. just don't do it. the stores are too big and impersonal. anything you can get there you can get anywhere else. just say no.

I worked at a grocery store and had to do this several times. I didn't mind at all! It was just another thing to keep me busy. I really don't understand why people think this is going to be hard on the employees? I would much rather put stuff back on the shelves than run register, bag groceries, clean, stock the freezing cold cooler or face shelves. What's the big deal?

I think this would be an awesome prank for collage kids with time on their hands to do. Man, everyone on DU sounds so old! Where is the youth and the energy and mischief we all had when we were young?

Hell, look at Maude in the movie Harold and Maude! She pulled some gags like this and they were awesome! Loosen up everyone! It's not a crime to do this and it wont hurt anyone but the stores profits and don't give me this BS that the store will make them do it for free. If the employees let them get away with that then they need to get some balls.

I can't believe the ignorance displayed by people who want to pull this cruel joke, especially at this time of year. Look, an average floor associate, at this time of year, has about 9 hours of work to do in an 8 hour day. Cleaning the aisles alone can take well over half that, especially in seasonal, not to mention stocking from pallets, zoning, price changes, etc. Ninety percent of the time the managers will not approve overtime, even at this time of year, so forget about them getting extra money. Usually the managers will get on 2nd shift's ass if there are full carts at the end of the shift, and at the same time will again get on the associates' ass if they can't finish their assigned jobs by the end of the shift either. Usually the first time this happens is a warning, the next three are write ups, and then finally, termination. So basically your advocating for unemployment, congratulations!

Of the latter, how? How, specifically, does this "prank," as you put it, hurt Wal-Mart's profits? I would prefer something other than theory, as in specifics. Understand before answering that I worked for many years in management of a retail corporation and am well aware of the arguments about productivity and the so-called bottom line being affected by things such as this. That is, I know the theory. I also know how retail stores seek to combat this. Those who manage these establishments are quite a bit smarter than some people in these threads give them credit for being.

As far as "growing balls" is concerned, I'm really getting tired of addressing this kind of indictment of victims of worker abuse. Blaming the victim has become a convenient device to be pulled out of the rhetorical war chest as though it is harmless. It's not harmless. It's a well established tactic of the corporate world to make workers responsible for "allowing" unfair practices of employers that skirt the thinnest edge of legality to continue. If you truly do not think employers such as Wal-Mart do not find ways effectively to force their employees to work off the clock, you are lacking the relevant facts necessary to analyze the effects such "pranks" have on workers as opposed to the company that employs them. It's not a choice of stocking the coolor or cleaning up the mess. You do both. If you have to clean up more messes, you do that too, and you do it without overtime, period. Clocking out late is considered just as much an infraction as clocking in late and is often treated in the same manner on evaluations.

Take a poll of retail workers regarding what they think of people who do things like this. Or, if you really want a reaction, walk up to one of the graveyard shift employees in a Wal-Mart and just bluntly tell them you think this is a grand, harmless idea that you also think is pretty damn funny. Then call me when your bones heal.

Running all over the store to get everything faced before the end of shift or get chewed out by a manager a decade younger than me who I had to call "Ms. Whatever" was not good on my knees, my back, or my feet.

Lots of--maybe most--retail workers are not living in pain-free bodies as it is...

Tucker

You got that right.

I know people people who have sports injuries. I'd trade some of them my knees, ankles, hips, and lower back. Standing, bending, and carrying heavy loads 8-12 hours a day, 5-6 days a week for nearly 16 years destroyed parts of me that can't be fixed. The last retail place I worked as a manager had an actual policy that didn't allow anyone to sit even a moment the entire shift, and my shifts were ten hours minimum. I did paperwork while standing. No breaks, no lunch, nothing.

When I finally managed to change jobs last year an acquantaince asked me why I was crazy enough to take less money than at my previous job. "I have a chair" was my answer. Still, I guess I have psychological damage. I can't use a ten-key as well unless I'm standing over it.

Oh, and then there's my stomach. Stress combined with rotating shifts that caused me to have no regular meal (or sleep) times and often forced me to eat bad food if I wanted to eat at all has torn it up. Consideration for others' sensibilities prevents me from describing what kinds of things happen inside me due to this.

Anyway, a heaping lot of people really seem to think that working retail is a nothing job that places no demands on the body or mind. Either that or they just don't care. These juvenile "pranks" are not harmless by any measure. They are a big part of what creates the poor working conditions.

And I swear if anyone tells me it was my fault for staying with the job that long, I'm coming right through this computer screen.

An "Awesome Gag"?...

Regardless of what movie it's from, and how "cool" it seemed there, that was a movie, not reality. One does not have to be "old" or stuck in the mud to be conscientious of a worker's well-being.

Before your motivation for activism is to have "fun," I suggest doing (a) some true research on Wal-Mart and other retail and service jobs; (b) readings on the solidarity movement ; and (c) work in a real job os such description ... NOT for pocket money or slouching around getting "on the clock hours" as someone else suggested, but in order to feed your family.

:eyes: :banghead:

for spoiled college kids that had daddy pay for college.

These self-appointed progressives who drive brand-new cars and go home to 3,000+ sq. ft. houses need to back the fuck up and realize how spoiled and stupid they look. Youthful energy my ass. Punk-asses.

(n/t)

...WOW...what a nice "progressive" sentiment from someone who's dismissive of minimum wage workers. When those folks who need to "get some balls" get done working their asses off for minimum wage and stagger home after having had to put right what these horseshit "cart revolutionaries" (almost all of them upper middle class yuppies) you so support have fucked up for them, I guess the thing for them to do is just rent "Harold and Maude" from Blockbuster and get an exhausted grip on the bigger picture, huh?...

Real nice.

:hi:

Can't add to the burden of the working class and expect to win them over.

I can't believe this would even be considered. And THIS is why people say liberals are elitist snobs. Of course the majority of us aren't, but we should be standing in unison with the working man, not against them.

And not everybody takes jobs at retail stores because they're poor. High school and college students who can't depend on money from mommy and daddy do too, and it practically kills them juggling between class and work.

This stunt hurts people, and I'm glad so many DUers are calling this bullshit out.

It's very Naderite in its thinking. Let's hurt people to help them. I love what the defenders of this are saying - basically this is their argument - "The workers are a bunch of pussies and can't do anything themself" (I apologize for using the term 'pussy' in any way someone might find it offensive).

It's a bunch of bullshit thought up by people that never had to deal with the shit that retail entails. Workers have to put with a bunch of crap during the day, and God I can't imagine how shitty it must be at a place like Wal Mart. People complain about Wal Mart employees being rude. No wonder. Any place that makes you work 'off the clock' sounds awful. I remember I would be pissed when I worked at K Mart years ago and they would make me punch out and then have me do some things.

Some people seem to live in an alternate reality and extremely naive about conditions in this economy. People don't seem to realize that jobs aren't a plenty and in some towns Wal Mart is one of the only employers. At this point, it's the LARGEST EMPLOYER IN THE US! People can't just 'stick up for themselves' when they are working the job to pay for rent and food.

How about this idea of a protest?

Stop fuckin shopping at Wal Mart. Don't waste your time and gas driving to Wal Mart. Shop elsewhere.

Boycotts can be effective if large enough in scale. Unfortunately most have little discipline. Write to editors about Wal Mart conditions. Become active in opposing the contruction of new Wal Marts in your town.

But don't be an ass hole to the person working there. They aren't doing it because they like it.

But otherwise, I agree with your sentiments. At one point I worked at Wal-Mart, in large part, so that I could afford to eat.

(1) The reason people have jobs is because there's work to be done and profits to be made. When there's less work, there's less jobs. The delusion that "life would be grand" if the work were less is just that: a delusion. In fact, I'd far rather be busy than dogging it. People who dog it soon find themselves out of work and out of a job, no matter who the employer is (unless it's a relative) and what they pay.

(2) When I work for the company, I am representing the company. That means anyone with a grievance can address me with it and it's fair. It's up to me whether or not to take that personally. I don't. The reason the minimum wage emplyees are put on the "front lines" with the customer is because management/owners just doesn't give a flying fuck about dealing with the customer.

(3) The "logic" of the 'poor Wal*Mart employee' is nothing but hostage logic. Arguing against the cart-activism on that basis is precisely the same as arguing "shop there" for the same reason.

Now I really have heard everything.

Good grief.

Some 'progressives' seem overly fastidious. They protest ... politely and quietly. They might write their representatives ... politely and quietly. Sometimes they vote ... or send in money they don't miss much ... or even hand out flyers.

Heaven forbid they ever piss anyone off or subject themselves to criticism. Civil disobedience? Horrors!! :eyes:

That's how democracy dies... not with a bang but a whimper.

Somehow, walking into a Wal-Mart, throwing a bunch of random crap into a cart, then leaving it somewhere doesn't have quite the ring of a "Let justice be done though heaven should fall" type of activism that truly seeks to muck up the works. One supporter of this idea even baldly claimed that one of the benefits is that it is clearly legal, which is questionable, but the logic being used is what's important: it's good because it's "safe," which flies directly in the face of what you're claiming here. Cart activism? Debs rolls in his grave.

It was irritating at first, but I am now becoming somewhat amused at the steady stream of individuals who seem to think this particular idea would serve to hamper the operations of Wal-Mart in any way that couldn't be described as water on a duck. This is a big duck, and the water is incredibly light.

As to your specific commentary here casting aspersions on so-called fastidious 'progressives,' these hardly creative jibes do very little to advance anyone's cause, much less this specific case. I've asked in half a dozen places for someone to detail for me what, exactly, this specific idea will accomplish. No theory, no pie-in-the-sky fantasies about sticking it to the man by being naughty, but specifics, with examples. Details. What I've received in reply has been either silence or a similar implicit indictment of my principles and/or willingness to accept the consequences of genuine protest.

The only consequence of this "protest" (or is it a prank as another supportive person said?) is one more worker with more to do and less time to do it in. The "protester" goes home and pats him or herself on the back for a job well done, and Wal-Mart's CEO never even hears about it.

(1) As I said, I worked in retail. Every day I came in, we had a list of things to do in addition to taking care of customers. If we got slammed with a bunch of people or had a particularly demanding customer that came in, well, that stuff didn't get done. And if it didn't get done, it's more I have to do tomorrow in addition to the other things on the list AND help customers. And by the way, I never saw "Pick up after customers leaving bundles of items in the aisle protesting our corporation" on that list. Picking up after careless people just is a given. Someone leaving behind a full cart of items is a full fledged pain in the ass. For you to turn this into some "service workers are lazy, give them something to do" or that you are insuring they keep their jobs by creating more work shows how out of touch you are. I was never at a loss for work to keep me busy at my job. I don't need your help.

(2) Oh boy, you believe in the whipping boy mentality. Tee off on the kid behind the counter for something he has no say over. You must be a real beaut to have come through the line. In my heyday I'd shred you to cole slaw in fourteen seconds, and do it with a smile but unfortunatly most service people are tired, stressed, and have had the imagination drained from them. Some retail people take it personally. Some don't. It doesn't matter. If I've got some dick in line who wants to rail at me about something I don't make policy over, it's distracting from other things I could be doing. I never had a problem with customers politely pointing out things they didn't like in our store. I often agreed, and made sure to let management know. But when someone wants to use me to bitch about the big bad corporation that runs the place that's when I hand them the corporate toll free number and shout "NEXT"!

(3) Hmm...."logic of the poor Wal-Mart employee" and "hostage logic". So what are you saying? You don't give a shit about the Wal-Mart employee? They sold their soul to the devil so screw them and their family? Or are you the benevolent soul striding down from the mountain to show them the light? I'm confused here. Look, I don't shop at Wal-Mart. I've been in one on two occasions, and only because I had to be. I spread my money to other stores to keep those employees working. If I choose to ignore and boycott Wal-Mart, that's my business and my right of how I choose to distribute my money. To go into a place of business, one you have no intention of patronizing, and having no intention of buying items, and simply creating more work in a company that is known for abusing it's employees and then walk out is malicious. The rankin file employee will never know what sense of smug satisfaction any dime store "activist" is getting from this "protest", just that their feet hurt and they want to go home, see their kids, watch some TV, have peace and quiet........and some asshole just left 100 pounds of merchandise in the aisle.

If you stock shelves all day, wouldn't you have to re-stock the shelves if the product goes out the door? If I buy fives bags of crappy china mart dog food and leave with them out the door, the shelves have to be restocked, right? I am neither defending or condoning the leave a cart movement at this point as I have not read up on it yet. Nor would I defend anyone would earns a living there.
As for folks who say they HAVE to shop there, well, I agree there are a very minute minority of americans who may need to shop there. Prudent coupon cutting and watching for sales can make many retailers come within range of China Mart . I know this because a former lady friend of mine was in charge of the UPC update system at a local China Mart . They would lower prices to match the local sunday paper ads of local competitors, then would jack something else in the store.

China Mart free for 5 years plus.

....there is already a chance they will be made to do more work off the clock because of it.

But there really is no shortage of work to be done at a large retail store. No one should be going around creating more for someone.

You are wonderful! :hug:

go but I think this plan is a boneheaded way to get there. JMO

I bet if we proposed that, people would be up in arms. Honestly leaving a cart full of stuff and taking a dump on the floor are pretty damn close. But, oh well, might as well make Jim work harder to get his job done in 4 hours, because it's really going to hurt The Waltons.



:argh:

...is ultimately taken out of the paychecks of the workers. The Bentonward flow of money and life-force is never interrupted.

The cure, if there is one, is legislation that prohibits any retailer from getting that big and powerful, or deliberate effort by the public to shop only at competitors' establishments.

Most retail workers are expected to get the job done no matter how impossible it is. Management doesn't care if business if heavy or slow. The store better be picked up and clean regardless, even if there were lots of customers and some jerks decided to leave their cars full of items from all over the store in aisles. If you don't get the job done, they blame it on you and some retail workers do take this personally even though it wasn't really their fault.
Even though low wage workers often need money, money isn't the only part of their existance. As others have pointed out, working a shift is often physically wearing on a person and they might not appreciate working longer than necessary even if it does mean another $7. They may also have other obligations like family, school, or other jobs that would make staying late an abywhere from an inconvience to a crises.

This protest idea is bad and will only make us look bad. If you don't like WalMArt (and I don't), don't shop there. And maybe write letters explaining why. But don't take it out on the employees who are not at fault here. It is the corporation that is to blame.

Sounds more like a temper tantrum, than a protest...

... when I first read of this idea I had misgivings (because it is tantamount to vandalism IMHO), but I thought it was, on balance, perhaps an effective strategy.

After reading 3 thread of comments on both sides I have to agree, this is not a helpful plan.

Let's keep our heads in the real world and let the republicans engage in their flights of fancy.

I was ashamed at some of the posts I saw about leaving a cart full , shitting on the floor, etc.


Some people just don't understand what it's like to have worked retail, I did for 3 years at a Wal-Mart.

People yell at you and treat you like shit, but you know what, it's the only job around that is hiring becuase the economy is shit and we have idiots running things.

I've worked in a place like Walmart and having pick up after people sucked ass. I don't think this "hurts" Walmart at all. I think the least thing a person can do is _not_ shop there. I've stopped even though I know I can get shit there cheaper than at other places.

The working poor don't need this extra aggravation, IMO.