What's up with John McCain? Who/What is John McCain?

Can we discuss John McCain?

Two issues:

First, where is McCain on the political spectrum? Is he truly a moderate or is he in bed with the neocons? First he was chewed up and spit out by BushCo, then he stumped for Bush. However, McCain looked uncomfortable and shamed when he touted Bush as "someone who deserves our respect and admiration".

I just don't get it.

Second--I heard Rush Limbaugh wailing on McCain today. He's tearing him apart, calling him a RINO and going ballistic over McCain and how he's so middle-of-the-road and moderate, etc.

I smell a rat. Could it be that the neocons have realized that they're toast, so they're positioning McCain as a moderate--and someone they don't like--to position McCain as the "voice of reason"?

I just get this odd sense that Limbaugh's disdain for McCain is fake and orchestrated. Could McCain possibly be a neocon, and all of this screaming by the neocons, "McCain is such a moderate! McCain is too much of a compromiser" be part of a plan to attract people to one of their own--while pretending as if he's Mr. Independent/moderate?

Also, McCain seems to "stage himself" in high-profile situations (arbiter between Dems/Reps in USSC judge nominations) as the great consensus builder. It all seems just a bit too rehearsed.

I'd love to hear analysis on McCain--and what he REALLY is--and what you might think all of the neocon McCain bashing is really all about....

regressive -- possibly a product of Military Intelligence.

Are you saying he's a dupe? A robot?

He seems very programmed. Seriously.

The way they lambasted him during the primary. They insulted his child, for Pete's sake. Then, he turns around and insinuates that BushCo is the best-est president EVER!

It's pretty sick and twisted.

I can't imagine being around anyone who would insult my child--let alone--choose to traipse around the country and spew out glowing reports about their character and respectability.

Something is totally screwed up here.

Interesting...

So, do you think McCain is being used by the neocons? He's sorta like W...maleable, weak, damaged. They could control McCain like they control W.

Is it possible?

Something's up. I know that. Every word out of Limbaugh's mouth is part of a WH plan.

factions. They are two business interests with their own, but similar, objectives.

McCain is a cross between Bush and Kerry, but his Kerry side does not keep his Bush (corporate) side in check at all -- it's just a character trait which seems to go over well with The People.

Kerry too is almost surely a product of Military Intelligence, but we're not allowed to talk about that. (Skull & Boners have a habit of taking work in the intelligence community; particularly when they jump from Yale to Vietnam.)

school conservatives. Remember McCarthy? He was a Conservative, just like Bushco.

And when McCain was vacationing with Keating, running interference; Kerry and Brown were running a subcommittee on the BCCI whose investigation was being suppressed because of an "FBI Investigation" in Tampa. Kerry & Brown finally had to take their findings to Morganthal in NY.

McCain skated on an ethics charge in Congress when he, at least in my opinion, should have been indicted. We're still paying off that scam.

McCain is what he always was and will be, a RW Conservative. He just talks sweet to the left.

Short answer: Podperson

To moderate for the Repigs, too moderate for the Dems. Guy oughta take the Jim Jeffords route, and be the independent he works so hard to be.

OH, yeah. He's also a little squirrelly.

BushCo savaged him in 2000, yet he pimped for Bush all during 2004. That showed a real lack of both sense and outrage.

He has some moderate positions on a few domestic issues, but on core Repug issues he welded to the right--issues like taxes, corporatism, exectutive power. He's not a fundy nutcase.

As some others have noticed, he showboats on certain issues not at odds with the Repug corporate agenda. That leads some people to consider him a moderate. He's not.

McCain as the moderate of the century.

I'm wondering why that is.

What are they cooking up this time?

the savings loan scandal. Please remember that before you canonize McCain.

What cha talking about?

The last thing I'm doing is canonizing him.

I think he's a dolt. A real weirdo. He allowed BushCo to insult his child--and then he makes happy friends with BushCo.

I think he's an idiot.

To the tune of $600 billion dollars.

Don

Just because he's a Republican, and he has different views than we do, doesn't make him immediately a Satan worshiper (no offence to any Satan worshipers who may be lurking here).

The GOP HATES McCain, because he's what Republicans USED to be. Kind of like Pat Buchanan... traditional conservative.

He's being very vocal against the current administration's treatment of detainees, and I give him props for that. He's pro military-families, anti-tobacco. Hell, he even called for the resignation of Rumsfeld.

Many Republicans refer to him as a RINO. I guess he's too honest for the Republican party.

I would never vote for him, since we differ on a hell of a lot of issues, but I do respect him.

I would recall such a thing and I don't.

Don

"we go to war with the military we have" speech by Rummy. I didn't notice that he had later revised his statement later saying that President Bush "can have the team that he wants around him."

He is pretty good at doing what he does though. He gives a pretty good imitation of being a moderate but he is not one. He is like a Chameleon.

Don

He must have no self-respect. Nor would he respect his wife are family.
The display he made of himself during * campaign in 2000 and 2004 was truly sickening.

... is enormously ambitious politically--he will do what he has to do to be President--even if that means sucking up to Bush to prove his political vitae to Bush's base.

But, this latest screaming from Limbaugh is because McCain challenged Cheney on the torture issue, most likely because the subject is terribly personal to McCain. And, recall that Limbaugh tried to dismiss obvious torture as "fraternity pranks" and "blowing off steam." Backhandedly, that means McCain is challenging Limbaugh on the issue, too.

(and I know this is a stretch), Cheney purposely came out for torture to prop up McCain.

McCain could come out against the torture issue--and look like the good guy--the moderate voice of reason.

It didn't make sense that Cheney would so visibly spotlight himself as the pro-torture, go-to guy. He could have arm twisted--behind closed doors, like he usually does. Why did he have to come out publicly and demand "more torture!".

Limbaugh knows--that the neocons (including himself) are in dire straights. Maybe they feel that they're only hope is to prop up someone who will do their dirty work, anyway.

McCain is so W-like. He's damaged and weak--and he's the type they like to put out front.

Never said nothing for five years. Now all of a sudden he is all concerned. That as you say is BS to try and clean up McCain's whack job image that is well deserved.

Don

... it's not in Cheney's nature. Cheney is ruthless. One of his former aides and college dorm mate said that Cheney was "the least empathetic person I've ever met." I don't think Cheney gives a flat fuck about McCain. McCain was getting in Cheney's way, and Cheney didn't appreciate that.

It's my view that torture (and the threat of it) helps keep the "war on terror" going by fueling more hatred of the US. That's what Bush and Cheney want, and they're determined to have what they want. Cheney said what he did because McCain was interfering with his plans.

Cheers.

does anything about it. This was a statement I heard last week by a political analyst but I don't remember who it was.

I heard tonight on Hardball, though, that Giuliani was presently the "front runner"...so maybe McCain did all that bushbutt kissing for nothing. heh, heh.

to weaken Dems in California. Anybody who sees him as
Dem-lite or Dem-friendly is a fool. He's a Repube to his
last mad bone.

He's going to run. Very anti-choice, militaristic - a tad better on corporate issues and the environment. Makes noises that he is anti-corruption, but tried to shield his committee's (Interior) investigations into shoddy Indian deals from enmeshing other rethugs into Abramoff's mess. He is NOT a good choice for Pres., but if he makes it through the primaries, we are dead in the water - the press LOVES him.

That said, I think the hatred of him by those on the far right is genuine and not a ruse. I don't really understand that hatred on their part, but I think he really does rub them the wrong way. Maybe it's because he can be somewhat unpredictable and can come out with a position from time to time that they regard as utter anathema. Maybe because he himself does not tend to behave hatefully towards his politcal opponents. Maybe it's because he gives off a scent of weakness, as he did in the 2000 primaries when he wouldn't stand up for himself, his wife, and his daughter.

I don't know what it is exactly, but when Pat Robertson came out and said that he wouldn't have a problem with Rudy Giuliani, but would fight tooth and nail against McCain, I found it believable. I don't claim to understand how their minds work.

when He sold his soul and kissed the ring. Shortly there after he could be seen hugging W like a winsome lass. The Republicans know damn well that the US will not elect two Bush's in a row. Hence, McCain the tween-er candidate.

... back when I lived in AZ. My father even worked on his campaign, back before he saw the light. :)

"First, where is McCain on the political spectrum"

As others have mentioned, he's a traditional fiscal conservative and something of a mild social liberal, not a neo-con. On the US's spectrums, he's slightly to the right of Lieberman, which makes him seem "moderate", at least in US terms. A great number of his recent bills have been co-sponsored with Lieberman, actually.

"I heard Rush Limbaugh wailing on McCain today"

Rush hates campaign finance reform, balanced budget reform, expanded immigration policies, and the idea of government-sponsored health care, all of which McCain supports. Of the above issues, the one I've hear Rush moan about McCain the *most* on is campaign finance reform... for many, many, hours, Rush has made this an attack issue. In addition, McCain breaks ranks quite often, which dilutes the Republican ability to control power.

"Also, McCain seems to "stage himself" in high-profile situations (arbiter between Dems/Reps in USSC judge nominations) as the great consensus builder."

Yup. That's one of skills as a politician, both acting as a mediator and then making darn sure he somehow gets *credit* for the outcome.

Basically, McCain isn't "far right" enough for the frothing-at-the-mouth conservatives and neo-cons, because several of the reforms he has proposed or worked for dilute the power corporate interests can have on government, and he doesn't cheer lead or vote consistently for his party. His anti-pork approach angers the left and right somewhat equally. Check out his voting record according to SiG's:
http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=S0061103

... and you'll see his other main political skill, which is that he does an excellent job as portraying himself as "moderate". His actual voting record is all over the map, not consistent enough to really be a centrist democrat, a moderate republican, a hard right republican, etc. He's hard to define.

The reason for this is that his own personal positions sometimes cross boundaries, or are contrary to current GOP ideologies:
http://www.vote-smart.org/npat.php?can_id=S0061103

So, is he *really* a moderate? It depends on the issue. That's the main reason, I think, that he is vilified... he's not predicatable.

Didn't McCain start out as a Dem and then switch?
He has no loyalties.
He wants to be a politician and he doesn't mind sleeping on the right OR left side of the bed to do it.

Well, he first ran for Rhodes's GOP house seat, and then was endorsed by Goldwater (yes, *that* Goldwater) for senator, so he looks like he's been GOP for most of his elected life... though the RINO villagers with pitchforks have been chasing him for a while now, and accusing him of being a "democrat in republican clothing" has been a popular neocon meme.

But yes, he's first and foremost a politician. His deeper loyalties are to his personal beliefs, and not to any party, hence the neocon wing of the GOP being so angry with him... he doesn't always toe the line.

Voters thought words meant something, and voted for Arnold, why do you think so many people, including Dems, voted for him, WORDS, It was total bullshit, like Bush...Ideology always wins out when push come to shove...How can one think differently about a fucking republican?

Especially one who want Dems to actually vote for a republican for Prez...Are you going to get fooled again...Have you voted for a republican before?

Learn about republican ideology! Words don't mean shit...Philosophy and ideology will ALWAYS set their agenda!!!!