I totally agree with William Kristol's column today. It is a disgrace.

I think he puts it pretty well here. He is a discredited neocon, but Kristol unintentionally sums up my own feelings here. http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/006/342wkosz.asp

. . .Bush's counterpunch hit home. Ted Kennedy was upset. He found the speech "deeply regrettable." How dare the president try "to rebuild his own credibility?" How dare the president defend his honor--and the country's? For the nation's honor is at stake, too. If we went to war based on lies told by our president, then it is a disgrace to us all. It is a further disgrace that we reelected him. It is yet a further disgrace that Congress continues to support this war, by appropriating funds for it. It is a disgrace that Senator Kennedy has not moved to have the president impeached. . .

Mr. Kristol-- head of the sanitized sector of the neocons sums up your feelings exactly?

:shrug: Where to begin.... No, I don't think it is even worth it...

"If we went to war based on lies told by our president, then it is a disgrace to us all. It is a further disgrace that we reelected him. It is yet a further disgrace that Congress continues to support this war, by appropriating funds for it. It is a disgrace that Senator Kennedy has not moved to have the president impeached. . ."

sounds perfectly reasonable to me

Kristol has a thinly veiled message behind the aspects that you and I would obvioulsy both agree with-- that I believe you missed. He is not being the reasonable, rational reformed neocon that you might think at a quick glance.

That's why I said he "unintentionally" summed up my feelings. The president lied. It is a disgrace. He should be impeached. That's pretty clear, isn't it?

Yes, he is saying that the Left is stating this, but is implying this is all rhetoric on our part (and thus not true) because we aren't calling for impeachment. He isn't saying he agrees with it.

I don't even need to look at the article know that.

That he and his fellow travelers think they can win.

bush did lie. he knowingly had information prior to the invasion of iraq that the same intel he was using to gather support was false and bogus. he lies to congress and he lied to the american people.

most of this article was crap. sounds like more right wing conservative garbage from a clueless moron who has his head shoved between is butt cheeks due to his inability to clearly see and face reality.

I limit my agreement to his brief summary of the issues in the excerpt. Feisty group today.

Kristol quoting Kennedy: How dare the president try "to rebuild his own credibility?"

Here is the proper context:

Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., accused Bush of using Veterans Day as "a campaign-like attempt to rebuild his own credibility by tearing down those who seek the truth about the clear manipulation of intelligence in the run-up to the Iraq War."

Parents of the KIA and WIA should have sent him a greeting card on vets day. This guy has quite a bit on his head and hands.

"The lie that Bush lied us into war threatens the Bush presidency in a way no ordinary political charge does. Bush needs to refute it--and to keep on refuting it--for his sake, for the nation's, and for the sake of the truth".


He's seeking PeNAnCe for a traitor.

the air.

May his words eventually hang him.

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Kristol's message is clear...Bush lied us into a war?...TOUGH SHIT! What are ya gonna do about it?...NOTHING!

Jon Stewart: You were first to be wrong about both war and WMD. (paraphrased from memory)

Kristol sat their with an embarrassing grin on his face. It was great!

He had Begala very uncomfortable with this same line of attack. Dems need to be more succinct in their response if they are going to counter these potentially effective sounds bites by the Reps.

Dems need to pound it home that once the WMD inspectors went to Iraq and discovered NOTHING, all of the previous intel was moot. Whatever Clinton, the CIA, foreign intelligence agencies - name anyone, whatever they thought was there was irrelevant once that team went in. And the pertinent fact is that Bush stopped the weapons inspectors from doing their jobs. Stopped the inspectors from gathering the latest intel.

And went to war based on that bad intel. THAT is the counter-argument we need to be making.

Not the Senate?

And, if Tom DeLay is controlling what comes out to the floor in the House with his iron fist, then you'll never hear a peep about impeachment. Remember, they blocked the slave labor condemnation about the Northern Mariana islands as a favor to Jack Abramoff even though it had passed in the Senate unanimously!

And mimics it poorly.

This is nothing but a re-wording of Marc Antony's "Brutus is an honorable man" speech to the Romans after the assasination of Caesar.

reread the essay -- he is being sarcastic about Kennedy and impeachment.

This is a big gung ho yea Bush article. Here is another non-sarcastic snip:

Now the president and his team seem committed to fighting back. They have the advantage that the facts are on their side. As several commentators have pointed out in this magazine and elsewhere--most recently Norman Podhoretz in the December Commentary--the Democratic charge that Bush lied us into war is itself a lie. Lies can work when unrefuted. In a healthy democracy, they tend to boomerang when confronted and exposed. Now Bush has begun to refute the lie. He needs to keep doing so, and also to continue making the positive case for why the war was right and necessary.

to be an unintentionally cogent summary of my position that Bush is a disgrace and should be impeached. If I was unclear, sorry.

other Dems who are trying to get to the bottom of this. . .you've got plenty of good thoughts--you don't need Kristol

:toast:

Leaving you w another kristol quote:

<snip>

The lie that Bush lied us into war threatens the Bush presidency in a way no ordinary political charge does. Bush needs to refute it--and to keep on refuting it--for his sake, for the nation's, and for the sake of the truth.


<snip>

Yuck

was right and necessary. I've never heard it made. If he can make it, (or Kristol, or Cheney or anyone) I will be satisfied, even forgiving. It is one of my greatest current mysteries: why DID we go to war in Iraq?

The problem with "changing your mind" on a war is you have to tell all the people who suffered that it was all for not. That is all but impossible. For anyone.

What will be easier, and Bush beware, is to say "we were lied to. We elected a mad man, he fooled us into thinking he was a good, godly man but in fact he was just after your oil. Forgive us."

That will be Bush's downfall. Which he so richly deserves.

"If the American people really come to a settled belief that Bush lied us into war, his presidency will be over. He won't have the basic level of trust needed to govern." -- William Kristol

Yeppers! LMFAO!!!!

and I sure hope he's right about that.

It's unfortunate that his day job, obviously, is to prevent the above-mentioned hypothetical from manifesting as reality. Nonetheless, the fact that it can even be discussed as a possibility by the "mainstream" media whispers of progress.

I like this part too:

If the American people really come to a settled belief that Bush lied us into war, his presidency will be over. He won't have the basic level of trust needed to govern. His initiatives, domestic and foreign, will founder. Support for the war on terror will wane. The lie that Bush lied us into war threatens the Bush presidency in a way no ordinary political charge does.

he is a neo cons delight...and the blood on his hands is dripping!!

he was ceo of project for the new american century..therefore is the head of the neo cons..and this war!!

Check it out. A beautiful thing.

http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/the_daily_show/videos/celebrity_interviews/index.jhtml

I'm talking about Bill Kristol, not his pathetic writing. (And my apologies to all pieces of shit in the world for the insulting comparison).

The best they can hope for right now is an impeachment.
Never ever forget that people rallied behind Clinton during his impeachment. This is exactly why we just saw an impeachment poll in the media.
If dems impeach him and they can spin it that they played a roll in it, they can use the whole set up spin. "They knew it was bad intel. Because...... they're smarter.
Unfortunately, impeachment is the best thing that could happen to his presidency. It would rescue his legacy. He would then be the dumb president who was trying so hard after a terrorist attack and got duped by political friends and enemies.
Be very very careful of this.

peace

Why do it now when it is meaningless?

Don

It almost makes it sound like he should make a motion to use a direct insult, instead of tiptoing around one? :shrug:

Funny, making subtle digs at people not being direct or ascertive enough.