Why I think Bush & Cheney still have so many followers - do you agree?

Because the United States is filled with people just like them, who agree with them, and could easily swap places with them. Particularly in "corporate America." The U.S. is littered with millions of people very much like GWB and Dick Cheney - there are some living on my street. There are just too many of them, and they are all of that ilk. B & C are just the ones who managed to achieve a corporate takeover of the White House. The fact that the U.S. is full of so many greedy, scumbag thugs is the reason why Bush/Cheney still has so much support from a segment of the public.

That's 60 million people - that may be a large portion of the demographic right there. The sociopathic concept, on a national scale, would be ardent nationalism (my country right or wrong, etc). They're joined by the ignorant (racists and other simple-minded people fall into this category) and the, well, intellectually non-gifted in ways that would allow them to perceive Bush's crock of shit.

how to manipulate and control the religiously insane.

as a kid, i met a (republican) machinist in the university physics department machine shop. he had almost reached retirement, and had a comforable but unexceptional blue-collar retirement to look forward to, the kind you get when you put in a long career at a public institution and max out at about $30,000/year.

this guy was adamantly against high taxes on the rich, and agreed wholeheartedly with increasing his own taxes and decreasing his own benefits to pay for lower taxes for the rich.

why?

........... "because someday i'm gonna be rich!" ............

unbelievable. a blue-collar retiree, missing a couple fingers, and with no ideas or ambitions, and no rich relatives, somehow thinks, not only will he someday be rich, but that it's so likely and so important to save an extra few percent in taxes when he becomes rich, that he's HAPPY to pay more now to humor himself into thinking the dream could become real.

he's going to be rich. i guess he plays the lottery.

Unfortunately.

being represented by another stupid person. They've gone through their entire lives being stupid, and now they're being acknowledged as something else. (Then there's Cheney and corporatism, holding up the roof.)

Bush is justlike charlie manson he doesn't kill people, he gets his followers to. Than he says he got the authority from a higher power.
Why isn't he locked up is beyond me.

As someone on one of the boards pointed out a few days ago, their political and social identity, as described in corny and smarmy country-western songs, is more important to them than their self-interest. In other words, they'll vote themselves out of jobs if they have to to retain Conservatives in the government.

there is no assurance that your beliefs can become the law of the land. They don't want their beliefs to be subject to the marketplace of ideas. They want the coercive power of the government to enforce their beliefs. Their beliefs center around bush being sent to save America and to begin the establishing the Kingdom of God on earth.

Robertson said that sometimes God sends a monster to do his bidding. It appears that bush fits that to a T. So no matter what bush does to America, he shouldn't be questioned, because God in his infinite wisdom has sent a monster to set the stage for Armageddon.

First they need to reestablish the nation of Israel. That nation of Israel includes as part of its territory, Iraq and Syria. Bush is essential to the return of Christ because he was willing to work to fulfill the mission of God.

this will now be my standard comment when someone says they are republican. as they say to a dem, you are the party against family value. without batting an eyelash, well i may if it is a texas male, i am going ot in such sweetness say

you are the party of greed, in the name of the lord

i can easily back up this statement. regardless what someone gives me

this IS who the republican party has become

Because some people were very adamant and unwavering in their support of Bush. He's their horse, they backed him.

Now, they are so connected with Bush that they go down with him if he goes down.

They can't admit that he is a failure, a liar, or an all around evil person because they would be saying the same about themselves, by extension.

Guilty by association.

Some of these people are so set in this mentality that they don't mind the lies at all. Whatever helps them save face is the reality they want.

The civil rights movement.

The womens right movement.

The gay rights movement.

The SWM's hate those three.

They also hate their allies: environmental activism, and anti-war activism.

SWM's want to institutionalize their role as the head of a traditonal, Judeo-Christian, hetero-sexual, patriotic, family and society.

And, any tolerance of the human or environmental rights movements comes only from Pappa, and only with their forebearance and their permission.

It's the return of the Patriarch.

Rights can never be demanded from daddy- but only gotten by asking nicely.

This is the subtext, the psychological under pinning of the whole conservapig movement.

Yep. They feel threatened when other people demand their rights.

I want to make that clear. It's just my take on those who fell for the radicalrightwing do or die, bushco love it leave, our way is the only way crowd.

Think Rummy, Darthcheney, or prolific hypocrite Satanorum and that gang.

Then think about irreverant guys who don't need to step on others in order to be men- Jon Stewart comes to mind.

Jimmy Carter. Bill Clinton. heck it would be fun to make a list and compare the strict authoritarians with the real men who are not threatened by change and power sharing.

It has to do with falling prey to the "got mine so fuck you!" attitude that EVERY HUMAN BEING - black, white, male, female, straight, gay, young, and old - can succumb to. It's about choosing the self-righteous blame-shifting scapegoat approach rather than shouldering the responsibility to work with others with different and equally valid perspectives.

To imply that these sociopathic attitudes are gender-related or race-related is the same kind of sexism and racism that engenders the sociopathic attitudes in the first place.

Racism exists all over the globe - in majority black societies, in majority asian societies, and in majority hispanic societies. Sexism has existed in matriarchal societies just as it has in patriarchal societies.

These are human failings! Nobody is more immune based on their race, gender, sexual orientation, or any other demographic!

Defending against the tyranny of a majority, any majority, is what liberalism is all about. That's why I'm not just a (small-d) democrat, but a liberal democrat!

The southern dems got pissed off after Bobby Kennedy sent federal troops down south to integrate the school.

The civil rights movement pissed them off.

Zell Cretinmiller
Pat Pukanon
Rushpill Limpags
Bill Bennett

come to mind in a cinch. they all allude to this and play on people with these ideas.

And yes, they have their angry female, white, blabber mouths, supporting and aiding them.

Phylis Schlafly
Anita Bryant
Anne horseface KKKoulter

The southern dems split off from the dems and many became repugs.

They began talking about states rights-which is a code for no federal laws about race, womens rights, or any other federal intervention. States rights alos means no abortion and no gay unions, or marriage, or air if possible.

>"To imply that these sociopathic attitudes are gender-related or race-related is the same kind of sexism and racism that engenders the sociopathic attitudes in the first place." -TahitiNut

They ARE gender and race related. and saying that is not being racist or sexist it is being honest.

Who am i going to believe, you or my lying eyes?

Why do you think Rush Limpbags makes such a point about Feminazi's?

Why do you think they ridiculed a ligitmate issue like the environement by calling us, "tree huggers?"

Why do you think they hated Hilary long before she was a Sneator? She dared speak out against baking cookies and being passive.

Sad to say but the genesis of the radicalrightwing movement is a paternalistic, straight, white, male, response to the 60's and 70's when many of them percieved their power was usurped.

notice, please notice, I didnot say every SWM, nor did I say it is genetic to SWM's. I described a subset in society who feels that the changes in our culture are dangerous to them, their values, their families and they want the change to stop and to reverse.

Check out fringe groups like the Xtian exodus movement. All angry SWM's and their obedient families in tow. Or any number of southern pride movements. Can no longer link to the gems due to respect for BB rules, but they are out there.

"Racism exists all over the globe - in majority black societies, in majority asian societies, and in majority hispanic societies. Sexism has existed in matriarchal societies just as it has in patriarchal societies."-TahitiNut

So what? I am talking about the US and not the globe.

Is there a matriarchal movement afoot today extolling "tradtional values"?

Asking to repeal Roe v Wade?

In support of gun ownership?

Lamenting affermative action and the undue attention paid to privileged minority (women, blacks, gays) groups?

Seeking to exploit nature? Drill the artic?

Many of these guys feel that society has become soft, feminized and repressive, just ask a manly man, Ann KKKoulter writes about this and makes fun of sensitive libs.

We can't change a thing until we understand it. And we can't win against something, unless we understand it.

Here is a look into a angry SWM's mind:
http://www.nypress.com/17/23/news&columns/MarkAmes.cfm

>IT CAME ON suddenly and without warning. Fuck the Democrats. Fuck the liberals. I hope Bush wins. I hope Bush steals another election and urinates into everyone's wounds…

For the first time in almost 30 years, the left has a chance to occupy the reality vacuum that opened up after the big barbecue in Fallujah. The left can sense that their time may have finally arrived, and they're prematurely settling into their new role as saviors of the national soul, with their former hysteria already reverting to a smug, nurturing tone. The once-vicious humor, born of desperation and hatred, is again becoming nauseatingly didactic and responsible. This is a disaster. The left seems to be buying into the high school civics teacher's idiotic lie that "you can't just be de-structive, you have to be con-structive as well." Yeah, and did you know that girls prefer shy, sensitive boys<

The Bush Believers are people who sense that the heyday of People Like Us is passing.

Yes, they represent all the corruptions/pathologies of American history to date. The people who love their caste advantage of being white, or if not white then the certainty of a fixed caste identity. The colonial exploiters of cheap labor and unmined or unfarmed or unlogged natural resources- and the whorish minions who find safety in their patronage. The people who believe in a corrupt, selfserving religion nominally based in Christianity that privileges their "morality" and rejiggered to excuse their wrongdoing extremely cheaply. And then there's the average people who have learned- and prefer- to be blind to these things being the social reality, or believe it's beyond changing, and focus on their paycheck being large enough to buy some comforts.

These people are harnessed in a revolt against the Modern world's change of these things to better justice, to less privilege by class/group and greater individual citizen rights. This rebellion does its best, imposes its ideas yet suffers defeat after defeat as these ideas fail against reality. Now the Rebellion is losing adherents by desertion and energy due to demoralization. The collapse of the rebellion is in sight. The smartest ones knew that final victory was never a real possibility and used the fervor to enrich themselves and engage in a great power trip. In their eyes this was merely one great bustout and exploitation of fools and the living dead.

in the past. In Nixonian times it was still an open wound. But thankfully the culture has moved out of the ugly days of open racism that existed as recently as the 60's when you could still see segregated bath rooms and water fountains on the drive down to Florida.

But, as you say Lexingtonian, it has all become conflated and jumbled in the minds of some people who imagine a perfect time that never existed, and these folk now resent the changes they have been told are a danger to them and their families.

Thank Pat Pukanon, Trixon hack and apologist, who created the cultural wars.

Racism is now a quiet given, like the horror witnessed when the full faith and strength of the Federal government could not bring food and water to 30,000 people, not even a port-a -potty, in NOLA, yet we could take Mosul.

Now they just hate everything else, like the womens movement, Roe, an almost hysterical homophobia, and a sense that liberals are weak and they are strong and they want to be associated with strength especially now that "we are at war."

But, i think that many are starting to see that they have been lied to. once that happens, in order to prevent them from with drawing from the debate we as dems have to be able to identify their beliefs and sometimes we do agree on many things.

Not all liberals are alike. Not all SWM are the same. We need to find the issues that truly divide us and separate those out from the ones that are negotiable.

I agree that the wealthy corporacrats definitely like Bush/Cheney - they're the main beneficiaries of this Administration. But I don't think they're the majority of Bush's support. Most of the "red states" are quite poor, very rural. These aren't people who are making big bucks under Bush's policies. They've probably even gone backward - yet they still support Bush. I think it has more to do w/the whole "culture war" thing - they think Republicans will stand for "Christian values", stop "judicial activism" (read gay marriage, abortion), & stand up to those liberal elites. So they support him w/o even realizing that Bush is the ultimate elite, that he could care less about rural Kansans. At least the corporate thugs have their values straight - they like Bush because he helps them make more $$$$$$. It's sadder to think of the millions of people who line up behind a President who actually hurts them.

The sociopath and the stupid, make a team quite listened to and enjoyed. I'd say that atleast 30% of the entire population of the world are sociopathic, from what I've witnessed first hand it makes me think humankind deserves a good plague...but those thoughts for later :)

I'd say another 30-40% of them are stupid, borderline stupid, or intelligent but gullible and easily mislead. That's about 70% of the world, the reason bush's poll numbers dropped so much was due to the fact action speaks louder than word -- those ignorant stopped support of bush after katrina. The only reason bush has ANY popularity is exactly that number of sociopathic individuals.

I've seen people casually make posts at other message boards, if someone paid them 5 dollars to skin a puppy alive, they'd do it, without a feeling about it. The republicans offer some of these people big bucks...scary times.

and on edit: I've dealt with plenty of sociopaths even here on DU. The REALLY angry people who will berate you like they want to kill you with their text messages -- and just think, THESE people are on OUR side (allegedly)

Sadly to say that means more of a "base" for Bush. A Democrat's job approval numbers would be 20%-25% right now if he/she was doing the same stuff as Bush, while Bush's are 35%-40%.

As long as Bush keeps talking about God and throwing them an occasional bone like Alito they will NEVER leave him.

are his planners and elite intellectuals.

The rest is filled in by regular Americans that were duped by the two pronged fear monegring. The "War on terror" and the "cutlural wars."

It was like the perfect strom.

I wonder how far Bush and KKKarl and the neocons go back in time?

That sums it up. People around here are NICE people. They work hard and go to church. They are susceptible to hating "others," but the biggest problem is that they do not get any information outside Rush, Fox and their church.

I often watch the local news and observe how many stories they censor out. I'd be surprised if people around here even remember we're in a war, and I'm sure they know almost nothing about all the scandals.

They are ignorant, in the true sense of not having information. I do think they are basically decent people who will be really pissed off at the GOP if they ever figure out how badly they've been used.

just to support a family and raise kids.

I hear it from seniors when they talk about the war, and hate it, especially WWII vets who seem really knowledgeable and think that this is now a huge mistake and a lie, and I know they are also angry that shrub tried to yank social security out from under them.

I hear it when I talk to factory workers who are down sized, put out of work, or lose their pension.

I hear it when people talk about the price of a gallon of milk, or a gallon of gasoline.

They are all angry now. Men, women, old and young. But I have yet to hear that they have found an answer, an alternative.

I think cost of living, and decent jobs will eventually trump the phony cultural wars trumped up by the KKKoulter, Limpbag, Pukanon cabal of elite assholes.

There is a chance to reverse the national shift to the right and move the mainstream back towards the middle- at least. Then there are those who will always need to feed their stupidity with O'Liely and his ilk. They are lost and not worth further effort. But those will be a small minority. However, the radicalright has been spewing propaganda against liberal ideas for 30 years and some hard work will be needed.