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yella_dawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 03:10 PM
Original message
I've had it!
I just followed a link in another GD post. The blogger referenced was railing against trade deficits and sales of a literally unimaginable volume of T-Bills.

The blogger quotes the common litany: "Americans are addicted to imports".

NO! We are not addicted to imports. That is a blatant lie!

American's want to "Buy American". But there is no "American" to buy. Even the shit that says "Made in USA" is most likely made in some US protectorate that has no purpose other than to act as a loophole in US trade and human rights laws. Even the really, really, US made goods are often final assemblies of imported parts. Like, say, a Ford Mustang. Shit. A Honda Civic probably has more US labor in its construction than the Mustang.

US (Global) corporations have eviscerated the US ability to manufacture, and more recently to design, basic products. The Wal-Mart led frenzy for hundred dollar microwaves and ten dollar shirts has destroyed the US manufacturing base.

I don't mean GM's assembly lines. I grew up in small-town Texas, not thirty feet from the end of the world. I mean fucking nowhere. But when I was a kid, we had a garment factory and later, a fiberglass furniture factory.

Know anyone who works in manufacturing that has less than five thousand coworkers, nation/world-wide?

The uber-holy capitalist saviors of all that's right and good have sold us down the river. 'Cuz multimillion dollar annual salaries only come after the IPO, and the shareholders absolutely won't tolerate planning beyond next quarter. There is no vision beyond immediate profit potential and this mentality has destroyed a once great nation.

Hey!

Freeps!

Want those good, old-fashioned values back? Jack your fat ass up off the couch and bust that lard to get good paying manufacturing jobs back in this country. You're paying 50 bucks a week on the debt structure Ronnie and the Chimp have built, and another 50 bucks a week for every one of your little trailer trash, inbred, cracker-spawn brats (credit to Bill Hicks for that insult).

A whole lot of your so-called Family values are based on high quality jobs available in small-town / local economies. See, US made vacuum cleaners and American made Levi's cost so fucking much 'cuz they provided jobs that paid so well that both parents in a typical family weren't working 60 hours a goddamned week just to keep the lights on. Instead, the union workers building GM alternators had time to raise their kids without pushing the kids below the poverty line to do it.

There ain't no "addiction" to foreign goods. The problem is that there aren't any American goods to buy. And that's the real collapse of values in this country. Moral values ain't the problem. It's inherent value in the economy, and we for sure ain't got enough of that.

Service economy my ass.


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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. K & N n/t
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. And another!
:kick:
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Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. You go, boy.
You are right in the zone of truth, a painful place that strips the paint right off the Ownership Class's Lexus.

We had an industrial economy once, and we could have one again, if we would get out of the race to the bottom called globalism.
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SomewhereOutThere424 Donating Member (497 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
4. I second that, about wanting to buy american products more
Why else would japan make 'USA' so they could say 'made in USA'? People want american products and we just have no choice. If you look -- hand made items from america sell almost triple the amount of an import -- and I mean really sell, too, not just get listed that way.
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
5. James McMurtry sings about that..."We Can't Make It Here Anymore"
Edited on Sat Nov-12-05 03:17 PM by Roland99
(and there's five)
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0rganism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
21. and much much more
MP3 at
http://www.compadrerecords.com/downloadpages/wecant.html

"We Can't Make it Here"

Vietnam Vet with a cardboard sign
Sitting there by the left turn line
Flag on the wheelchair flapping in the breeze
One leg missing, both hands free
No one's paying much mind to him
The V.A. budget's stretched so thin
And there's more comin' home from the Mideast war
We can't make it here anymore

That big ol' building was the textile mill
It fed our kids and it paid our bills
But they turned us out and they closed the doors
We can't make it here anymore

See all those pallets piled up on the loading dock
They're just gonna set there till they rot
'Cause there's nothing to ship, nothing to pack
Just busted concrete and rusted tracks
Empty storefronts around the square
There's a needle in the gutter and glass everywhere
You don't come down here 'less you're looking to score
We can't make it here anymore

The bar's still open but man it's slow
The tip jar's light and the register's low
The bartender don't have much to say
The regular crowd gets thinner each day

Some have maxed out all their credit cards
Some are working two jobs and living in cars
Minimum wage won't pay for a roof, won't pay for a drink
If you gotta have proof just try it yourself Mr. CEO
See how far 5.15 an hour will go
Take a part time job at one of your stores
Bet you can't make it here anymore

High school girl with a bourgeois dream
Just like the pictures in the magazine
She found on the floor of the laundromat
A woman with kids can forget all that
If she comes up pregnant what'll she do
Forget the career, forget about school
Can she live on faith? live on hope?
High on Jesus or hooked on dope
When it's way too late to just say no
You can't make it here anymore

Now I'm stocking shirts in the Wal-Mart store
Just like the ones we made before
'Cept this one came from Singapore
I guess we can't make it here anymore

Should I hate a people for the shade of their skin
Or the shape of their eyes or the shape I'm in
Should I hate 'em for having our jobs today
No I hate the men sent the jobs away
I can see them all now, they haunt my dreams
All lily white and squeaky clean
They've never known want, they'll never know need
Their sh@# don't stink and their kids won't bleed
Their kids won't bleed in the da$% little war
And we can't make it here anymore

Will work for food
Will die for oil
Will kill for power and to us the spoils
The billionaires get to pay less tax
The working poor get to fall through the cracks
Let 'em eat jellybeans let 'em eat cake
Let 'em eat sh$%, whatever it takes
They can join the Air Force, or join the Corps
If they can't make it here anymore

And that's how it is
That's what we got
If the president wants to admit it or not
You can read it in the paper
Read it on the wall
Hear it on the wind
If you're listening at all
Get out of that limo
Look us in the eye
Call us on the cell phone
Tell us all why

In Dayton, Ohio
Or Portland, Maine
Or a cotton gin out on the great high plains
That's done closed down along with the school
And the hospital and the swimming pool
Dust devils dance in the noonday heat
There's rats in the alley
And trash in the street
Gang graffiti on a boxcar door
We can't make it here anymore
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Vox_Reason Donating Member (589 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-05 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #21
48. THANKS for that!
Those lyrics are DEAD ON. Brilliant! Made my day!

I agree with John Edwards:
"In a country of our wealth, to have 37 million people living in poverty? It's a huge moral issue. There's a hunger in this country for a sense of national community, that we're not in this thing by ourselves. There's been a long period of selfish thinking. I think there's a great opportunity for us to be about a big, moral cause that's bigger than most people's own self-interest."

When are we going to once again think beyond the end of our noses? When is the selfishness going to give way to concern for others, and a realization that when the least among us do better, we all do better?

If the Christians won't read the new testament and hear that message loud and clear, then it's going to have to be liberals to lead the charge.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
6. You said it brother..
... but sadly I don't see an end in sight.

Not to be too pessimistic, but the "cheap imports" will no longer be so cheap once the dollar plummets to a fraction of its current worth.

It's not a matter of "if", only "when". Then, not only will Americans make less money, they won't be able to buy cheap imports with what they do make.

The CEOs and pols who brought you this mess think they'll be ok, they've got theirs. We'll see.
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
7. No shit nominated
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
8. Try to buy "American" and shopping is more than a full time job.
And there are things that you would just have to do without. It is astounding that this was the first thing thrown out when it was decided how important it was to keep Adam & Steve from living happily ever after....
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yella_dawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. While I'm still raving like a loonie.
What the fuck is all this about what people do in bed? I counted on my fingers a while back and realized that nearly 30% of my "circle of close friends" is gay, lesbian or bi.

Know what?

Their sexual preference doesn't seem to affect my life at all! (Well, there's that one episode after a night of drinking on a camping trip, and a couple of the lesbians forgot that tents don't provide a lot of privacy, sound-wise. I giggle my ass off about that pretty regularly. Still, it had a lot to do with howling out loud at a crucial moment, not actual sexual preference.)

My kid has no realistic prospect for an economically sound career. But by God! Them damned gays ain't gonna recruit him as long as George W is in office!! Which, of course is doubly bizarre, since abortion, gay agenda, evolution, etc. are election year staples the R's wouldn't harm to save their first-born. The freeps never notice that all these family values pols never actually do a damned thing, and budgets, etc. show the status quo is healthy and happy on moral issues (abortion funding, etc. Hey! notice that the R's in congress are slashing everywhere, but not abortion funding? Amazing!)

I hate the stupid.


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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
9. try this: buy NEIGHBORHOOD, skeeter
:) (he didn't mean it...he's a good man...he's passed out under the truck with his dog, skeeetER -- god, i love that bit).

buy second hand. try to get everything you need around your house. get to know your local merchants. the little health food store where everything's a little more expensive -- what the hell? it'd cost 5 bucks in gas and a whole wasted day going to Green Hills, Cool Springs or whatever corporate-named suburb.

organic, local food. not just american, but in your backyard. second-hand goods support extreme micro-biz and forces you to wait until you find the "perfect" treasure. no, you can't find decent american goods, new. they can still be had if you take an alternate route. there's nothing better than solid mid-century american mass-produced workmanship. we LONG for that "historical" quality. hence Restoration Hardware where you can find the illusion of that old timey quality -- and even find some good pieces -- but you pay. which isn't a problem if you are buying quality.

my extended family in the mountains worked in furniture and textiles. now they have their own woodshops and sewing rooms b/c the jobs are long gone.

totally agree.

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yella_dawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. God I miss Bill Hicks.
"Chicks Dig Jerks": real Texas rock.


I agree about buy local. But right now, I'm struggling with the decision to buy a German made sewing machine from a local dealer (at an inflated price) or order a Singer (made who knows where) from an online seller.

I can't even tell which is the lesser of two evils.


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satya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
10. Support companies like American Apparel, who are working to change that.
http://www.americanapparel.net/

From their mission statement:


American Apparel is a vertically integrated manufacturer and retailer of clothing for men, women, kids and dogs. Meaning, we've consolidated all stages of production under one roof at our downtown Los Angeles factory—from the cutting and sewing, right through to the photography and marketing.

Ultimately, it is this system that allows us to stay competitive while paying the highest wages in the garment industry. Because we don't outsource to local or developing-nation sweatshops (or to ad agencies, for that matter) the entire process is time-efficient, and we can respond faster to market demand.

We offer the following benefits to all of our employees, sewers and administrators alike, as a matter of policy: paid time off, affordable healthcare for them and their families, company-subsidized lunches, bus passes, free ESL classes, on-site masseurs, free parking, proper lighting and ventilation, and the most up-to-date equipment (be it the latest cutting machine or software). We are continually striving to improve the work environment. (Read More Here)

More importantly to our garment workers though, we offer year-round employment and job security, with virtually no turnover. This is anomalous in an industry dominated by seasonal work.

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dennisnyc Donating Member (388 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-05 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #10
46. their underwear and t-shirts are great! I'm wearing them now
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satya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-05 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #46
58. Welcome to DU!
:hi:

Nice to hear you're an American Apparel customer. (I'm not associated w/ them, just like their stuff and their concept).
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
11. Good One!
I just read the other day that the US's major exports are paper, waste paper, and chemicals. You're right. We make nothing. We just pass paper around...rich white guys sit on their ugly asses and pass paper around.

I haven't bought anything made in China since 1989...except for those fireplace lighters (no other country makes them). I look at every label of everything I buy to see where it is made. I am always shocked to find something made in this country. Try to find a lamp or purse not made in China.

China is going to own us. The Chinese are buying up farmland here in Ohio. I am not a big fan of being told what to do....especially by rich short men.

Eat the rich.

I fear for this country. I hate what the neocons have done to it. I want Corporations hog tied.
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Johnny Noshoes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. "I haven't bought anything made in China since 1989"
Question - How new is the computer you use to post here at DU? If you are not using one at the library or an Internet cafe and it is your own, if it is fairly new, than odds are it was made in China.


"All things share the same breath - the beast, the tree, the man, the air, shares its spirit with all the life it supports." Chief Seattle
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #14
36. NOPE!
Returned the Dell and bought a Mac....made in Taiwan...a democratic country.
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Johnny Noshoes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. Well
I guessed wrong okay then but it sure would be nice if the thing were made here wouldn't it.
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. Yep...I don't know if Apple still has manufacturing
facilities here in the US...Ireland, Taiwan...and that's all I know. I wonder where the ipods are made.
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Johnny Noshoes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-05 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #42
44. I think
Edited on Sun Nov-13-05 08:08 AM by Johnny Noshoes
the ipods are made in China but I'm not sure.


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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
13. Wages.
I suppose I'll get flamed for this. But it's what I perceive as being the cause.

It's about wages.

And why would it not be about wages? Companies aren't in business out of the goodness of their hearts. They're in it for profit. And when hiring American workers at ten times the price isn't cost effective, they go elsewhere.

I've been saying for the longest time that our standard of living is going to decrease. And one way or another, it will. It's not Amerrica's fault. Blame it on the Japanese. Or the Chinese. Or the Indians. Or accept it and work for less.

At the high level engineering courses at the best universities in this country, the method of operation is that you invent a product, send the design to China, have them produce the injection molds, mass produce the item, put them in cargo containers, and ship them back to Walmart.

My personal experience is that the injection mold I had made in the US cost $50k here, but is only $10k in China. So, there's the answer. Sick as it is.

The rest of the world wants to join the game. And until now, Americans have had a big advantage. We've had a very high standard of living.

It would be nice is we could continue as we have. I'm not saying it can't happen. But unless we manufacture, someone else will.

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yella_dawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Two points
Edited on Sat Nov-12-05 04:25 PM by yella_dawg
One, American workers have to compete on a very un-level playing field. Petro-dollar economics have provided a high living standard for Americans while simultaneously making them uncompetitive in global labor markets for reasons that aren't obvious or intuitive. Your argument is a major oversimplification of the situation. China subsidizes the manufacture of your die. It subsidizes shipping of that die. China pegs it's currency relative to the dollar so the die is cheap. US die makers can't count on volume the way the Chinese can. It's really not about the workers.

Two. So the fuck what? If American workers don't have decent wages in stable careers, they ain't gonna buy it even if it's one one hundredth the cost of the American version. That's where I am, along with many of my coworkers in IT. I'm not buying either the Mustang or the Civic. I ride a fucking bike 'cuz my $80K income in 2000 has collapsed to less than $10K today. The real problem is that this has happened to yet another industry / career field every decade since I've been old enough to pay attention (a good long while). I believe that we're to the point where not too many more straws will snap the camel's back.


edit: typo


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tjwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. Wrong.
Sorry friend, but it is not about wages. The wages argument is one that the fat cats like to use, much like GM has been blaming their workers health plans for their problems. It is about slave labor in third world countries, in brutal conditions working in sweatshops. It is about no restrictions in environmental protections, or worker safety. In short is about spitting in the face of every union that had the guts to stand up against turn of the century robber-barons.

Ask yourself why the politicians love to talk about civil rights abuse in countries like China, and tell us how bad the big red evil commies are, but always seem to look the other way when it comes to passing legislation boycotting the same countries when it comes to corporations outsourcing labor there.

It's not wages it's greed,pure and simple.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Yup, and in the 1970s, Third World countries were putting
advertising supplements in the New York Times and Wall Street Journal urging U.S. corporations to come down and invest, and they actually bragged about banning labor unions and having no environmental laws or corporate taxes. (Aside from slipping a few million to the appropriate bureaucrats, of course, but that would be a small price to pay for workers making pennies per hour.)
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #22
38. I would say unfair. Not wrong.
If I understand, your thought is that we can solve outsourcing by legislation. It doesn't solve the issue of who is going to be able to afford to buy the product.

The question is, what are we going to do about it. By the way, I didn't send my mold to China. I paid the $50k to have it built here. I also didn't accept military contracts. I do what I feel happy doing. Not what makes me the most money. But then, that's why I'm on DU. I care.

Legislation and education. One might have consequences that may or may not work. The other is a very slow process. Maybe we can convert all of those jails we built for pot smokers, into classrooms. Our society just doesn't have the will that it once had. I think things go in cycles. I also think that we've had it very easy. We sat on our butts and let this happen. I may be an inventor and an engineer, but I'm painfully aware of this situation. I've been watching with the eyes of a hawk for decades. A lot of water has gone under this bridge. The trade schools have been auctioned off. The Chinese own us, and have the means of production. It's ugly. I seriously doubt legislation can pull us out of this dilemma.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-05 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #13
56. The crazy thing is you are all right.
yella_dawg, sorry to hear about your plight, it is all too familiar to me.
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spartan61 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
15. You are so right!!! How can we buy American if there are no
American products to buy??? Just this past summer my husband and I were shopping for new running shoes at the Factory Outlet for New Balance in Skowhegan, Maine. It is in an old school right next to the New Balance factory, where once upon a time the shoes were made. When we went into the store we asked where the American manufactured shoes were located. The clerk showed us to a pathetically small section with only a few pairs of shoes. We asked what was going on. Well, you guessed it. New Balance shoes are now made in China. The "American" ones are actually made in China but assembled in the factory next to the outlet. I can only imagine how many people were laid off from their New Balance factory job so New Balance can have a larger bottom line.

On, BTW, I just found out that American Airlines is planning to outsource their res like many of the other airlines. How can they continue to call themselves American Airlines?
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yella_dawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. Totally changing the subject.
I used to wear Rebok sneaks until, when a very expensive pair died before they even got good and dirty, the shoe store told me that I should expect to replace my hundred dollar shoes every three months of so, to insure comfort and "foot health".

Fuck it. Until recently, Teva's were American made. Now I've found a for real shoemaker in my area. (If he can stay in business.) But sneaks are a thing of the past.


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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-05 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #20
60. Aren't NewBalance made here? n/t
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
16. Yeppers.. When people brag about "service economy",
people who don;t know better, think "Woo-Hoo, I get to kick back and talk on the phone, and get away from the dirty work".. What they do NOT think about is this:

Most "service" jobs are just that..SERVICE

Your labor is not CREATING much. You are a "necessary evil" to your employer, and he's always looking for ways to either pay you less, or get rid of you altogether. You are expendable, and because he pays you very little, he's not likely to invest much time in training you, providing benefits for you, or caring how un-challenging your job might be. He can get 15 just like you in a matter of hours, who will work for the same or less wages, and will be as easily trained as you were.

When people who MAKE a product, no longer make anything, they are often not able to find work in their field because MOST jobs where people actually build/make a product have left the US.

Sure, those jobs might be dirty and physically challenging, but there is a satisfaction of having built/made something, and then there's the cash paid to the workers, which is usually a decent wage. I(f there's a union, the benefits and wages are even better.

The money made by the workers is spent LOCALLY, which starts a chain reaction for other merchants..


Service jobs usually pay just enough to stay housed, so there's very little left over to help local merchants..

Service economies are fine for locations where indigenous people are emerging from 3rd world status, and tourists start arriving. The hotels need maids, cooks, gardeners, bellhops, waitresses, waiters, but in an average US town, it's a killer.. Young people cannot find after school/summer jobs because their parents & grandparents are already working those jobs..

Unemployed teens are not a positive thing. With the overall economies depressed, a chain-reaction starts when the young folks have no reason to stay in their hometown and must move far away to ever hope to have a decent job. What businesses remain, feel the pinch as more and more young families must leave.. OLD PEOPLE do not buy as much stuff..

Service economies are town-killers.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #16
25. Again, yup! Fans of Upstairs Downstairs and other British historical
dramas know exactly what "being in service" means--slaving away for long hours at low pay and being subject to the whims of your employers.
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
19. Good stuff
kicked and nominated
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newspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. oh the good old days
I remember the song "look for the union label", it was kind of catchy. And the clothes were really well made, they lasted for years. Not like some of the "sweatshop" shit we get now. I have bought shoes from some American small businesses and they were the same price of some of the shoes in the higher class department stores. I have these real comfortable boots that feel like your walking barefoot, I loved them so much I bought them in three different colors--all American made by a small footwear company--there so different that people constantly ask me where I got them. There are clothing co-ops, and smaller quality clothing companies in the US-when you buy quality made clothes and shoes, they last longer, so are well worth the money. Just think of buying a piece of "sweatshop" clothing that disintegrates in two or three washings-did you get your monies worth? even though it was cheap?
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. I bought a pair of American made shoes in 1969 that lasted until
1984.
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yella_dawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. 'Member
Converse high tops? Ugly as they get, and would last absolutely forever. And they'd squeek on the gym floor lots better than this cheap imported crap.


Sigh. Now Convers is just more cheap imported crap with a big price tag.




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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. The ones I'm referring to weren't tennies
They were low-heeled shoes of the kind one might wear to work.
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yella_dawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. Yeah.
I found a local who makes sensible shoes. I'm not quite to the position of trying them, but I expect too soon. (My boots are dying fast.)



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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
27. "We Can't Make It Here"
JAMES McMURTRY "We Can't Make It Here"


Vietnam Vet with a cardboard sign
Sitting there by the left turn line
Flag on the wheelchair flapping in the breeze
One leg missing, both hands free
No one's paying much mind to him
The V.A. budget's stretched so thin
And there's more comin' home from the Mideast war
We can't make it here anymore

That big ol' building was the textile mill
It fed our kids and it paid our bills
But they turned us out and they closed the doors
We can't make it here anymore

See all those pallets piled up on the loading dock
They're just gonna set there till they rot
'Cause there's nothing to ship, nothing to pack
Just busted concrete and rusted tracks
Empty storefronts around the square
There's a needle in the gutter and glass everywhere
You don't come down here 'less you're looking to score
We can't make it here anymore

The bar's still open but man it's slow
The tip jar's light and the register's low
The bartender don't have much to say
The regular crowd gets thinner each day

Some have maxed out all their credit cards
Some are workin' two jobs and livin' in cars
Minimum wage won't pay for a roof, won't pay for a drink
If you gotta have proof just try it yourself Mr. CEO
See how far 5.15 an hour will go
Take a part time job at one of your stores
Bet you can't make it here anymore

High school girl with a bourgeois dream
Just like the pictures in the magazine
She found on the floor of the laundromat
A woman with kids can forget all that
If she comes up pregnant what'll she do
Forget the career, forget about school
Can she live on faith? live on hope?
High on Jesus or hooked on dope
When it's way too late to just say no
You can't make it here anymore

Wow I'm stocking shirts in the Wal-Mart store
Just like the ones we made before
'Cept this one came from Singapore
I guess we can't make it here anymore

Should I hate a people for the shade of their skin
Or the shape of their eyes or the shape I'm in
Should I hate 'em for having our jobs today
No I hate the men sent the jobs away
I can see them all now, they haunt my dreams
All lily white and squeaky clean
They've never known want, they'll never know need
Their shit don't stink and their kids won't bleed
Their kids won't bleed in the damn little war
And we can't make it here anymore

Will work for food
Will die for oil
Will kill for power and to us the spoils
The billionaires get to pay less tax
The working poor get to fall through the cracks
Let 'em eat jellybeans let 'em eat cake
Let 'em eat shit, whatever it takes
They can join the Air Force, or join the Corps
If they can't make it here anymore

And that's how it is
That's what we got
If the president wants to admit it or not
You can read it in the paper
Read it on the wall
Hear it on the wind
If you're listening at all
Get out of that limo
Look us in the eye
Call us on the cell phone
Tell us all why

In Dayton, Ohio
Or Portland, Maine
Or a cotton gin out on the great high plains
That's done closed down along with the school
And the hospital and the swimming pool
Dust devils dance in the noonday heat
There's rats in the alley
And trash in the street
Gang graffiti on a boxcar door
We can't make it here anymore

Music and lyrics © 2004 by James McMurtry

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bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
28. How many American doctors on staff in your town?
Edited on Sat Nov-12-05 04:48 PM by bluedawg12
No question about it the middle class manufacturing and blue collar jobs have been gutted.

so have some white collar job.

But,look around your hospital medical staff. do you see names of the sons and daughters of the local butcher and plumber and teacher?

not on mine. they are the sons and daughters of wealthy families from nations that hate us. they are brought in by hospital corporate administrator whores- who pay these imports smaller salaries than US docs, set them up in practice in order to avoid legal problems that give the appearance of kick back- yet they are just that, kick back schemes for the hospital. These guys are yes men to corporate and have patient care for Americans last on their list. First comes making $$$.

This has been going on for years and no one says crap about it.

That's on top of out sourcing good blue collar jobs and now white collar jobs.

the robber barons of the 21st century are gutting the middle class in this country and people are frustrated yet afraid to change- until now. At long last they know bunnypants has his pants on fire, liar liar.
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yella_dawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. God forbid
that we should subsidize education for American citizens like we do for foreign nationals. While I support programs to help poor countries, it's obvious that medical training programs have been perverted to undercut US health care workers (wage deflation). There has been a shortage of trained health car workers in the US all my life. I have never heard a plan offered to train US citizens in medical professions.

Wonder why? Maybe 'cuz they would form the nucleus of a stronger middle class rather than the desired subverted middle class? Nah! I'm being paranoid.


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Peter Frank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Amazing how some voters are willing to believe notions like...
Saddam and Al Qaeda were connected; but refuse to consider that big business (which funds elections, buying politicians with PAC $$$) might actually be in it for themselves -- at the expense of the average Joe.

Have these voters bought gas recently? Have they seen big oil's last quarterly report?
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bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. This robs American kids of their dream- as getting into
a profession, or having a secure job is unattainable for most of them.

I can't remember the last time I heard a kid in my blue collar area say, "I'm gonna be a doctor when I grow up."

I hear a lot of, " Going to join the military to get some training."

Well, not so much anymore, even that is becoming something they have lost. Because they see the re-deployment of the local guard and they know about the high KIA amd WIA rates.
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dennisnyc Donating Member (388 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-05 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #28
47. because middle class americans can't afford college anymore
and this is specifically an area that the Dems in Congress need to say more about!

There's a HUGE difference between Dem and repug education policy.
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IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-05 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #47
53. YES, especially medical school
that's why many American med students go to the Caribbean or India to get trained. Then they do their residency in America, take the board exam and are good to go.

But another thing to think about is....how many Americans do you know seriously want to be doctors? It's a long, hard, expensive process. It is very hard to become a doctor. The students in Europe and Asia start studying medicine in high school, and tend to score better on the exams than our students. Because the Republicans are against education. They want to keep us ignorant so they can stay in power.

Even fewer want to be nurses. If immigrants are taking away our healthcare jobs, then why is there a tremendous nursing shortage? For one thing, it is not cost effective to go to nursing school just to get a thankless job where you work ridiculous hours for low wages...and that's just the union ones. Americans don't want to be nurses. That's why hospitals want to bring in nurses from countries like India.
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entanglement Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-05 06:01 AM
Response to Reply #28
59. Read this article about foreign doctors in rural America
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Peter Frank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
31. K & N -- Also...
...these are the kind of truths that are difficult to put into a sound-bite. The opposition has a much easier task selling their message because they get away with dumbing issues down and applying a Right spin.
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moondust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
34. Buy used or genuine foreign.
With some effort I think a conscientious person can get by without adding much support to the new globalized slave labor corporate neofeudal system.
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dennisnyc Donating Member (388 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-05 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #34
57. and freecycle, freecycle, freecyle.org
and remember to BUY NOTHING sometimes and especially on International: Buy Nothing Day - November 25th, 2005

For 24 hours, millions of people around the world do not participate — in the doomsday economy, the marketing mind-games, and the frantic consumer-binge that’s become our culture.

We pause. We make a small choice not to shop. We shrink our footprint and gain some calm.

http://www.adbusters.org/metas/eco/bnd/
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Peter Frank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
37. yella_dawg ...
...check your inbox.
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Peter Frank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
41. K... nt
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-05 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
43. I agree
My Mom has said when she goes out to shop for clothes she tries to find things that have the "Made in the USA" label. Of course who really knows if it is made in the USA except the people who were apart of making it. But she has one piece of clothing that has the label and my Mom didn't cut it off (she usually does because she doesn't like having them on her clothes and it's annoying).
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-05 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
45. kick
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IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-05 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
49. It's expensive to ship stuff
That's the real reason Toyota and Honda make there cars in America. My Civic was made in East Liberty, Ohio from 65% American parts. That's more American than anything made by Ford, GM, or DaimlerChrysler.

There's a Chinese company called Haier that makes refridgerators in America. When you ship fridges, you ship a lot of air.

It's damn expensive. As the price of oil increases, it will be more and more expensive to ship goods to America. So maybe we will return to local manufacturing.

If you buy American jeans from the Union Jean company, you're first thought will be damn these are well-made jeans. My first thought when I got my Civic was damn this car was put together well. Lots of new cars have flaws...not mine. American workers make excellent quality products.
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Peter Frank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-05 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
50. Kick... nt
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MindPilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-05 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
51. Sony builds computers in the USA
Right here in my home town of San Diego. Sure the chips and boards come from all over the world, but the assembly is done here. They also make picture tubes at the same facility. I believe they make media--tape, Cd's, DVDs etc in the USA too.
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yella_dawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-05 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. One of the largest magnetic tape plants in the world
back in the sixties and early seventies was a twenty minute drive from my home town. Gone now. The same town had a major plant for manufacturing composite materials for aircraft manufacturers. My point isn't that the US has no manufacturing (note that your example lists assembly of foreign parts as a major function of the plant you cite) but that widespread, distributed manufacturing has disappeared, and in general, manufacturing is no longer the strength of our economy.

Shit. As far as I can tell, borrowing is the mainstay of the US economy.


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IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-05 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #52
55. Borrowing and spending IS the US economy
We are a consumer economy, we make money by buying stuff. It's a shitty way to go.

Unfortunately our leaders are selling us off to China and the European Union via our out of control debt. I'm worried about what the future holds :scared:
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IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-05 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
54. Regulations
Companies cite regulations rather than wages as the main reason to move overseas.

It's expensive to provide occupational safety, a human resources department, health benefits, retirement benefits, 8 hour days, breaks, disability insurance, life insurance, ...etc.

One very immoral, yet surefire way to bring back manufacturing is to get rid of OSHA regulations.

Or we could send oil prices skyrocketing so high that they can't ship that shit here.

Or we could adopt the national sales tax idea. Despite all its flaws (poor people, housing rent,etc.), it will turn your world upside down and bring manufacturing back to the US hella quick by drastically reducing the cost of production.

Manufacturing is an honorable line of work, but we could also give every child a quality affordable education so we can get better jobs.
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