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From Kos: Why bush shouldn't be impeached

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jim3775

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Sat Nov-12-05 03:14 PM
Original message

From Kos: Why bush shouldn't be impeached

http://feeds.dailykos.com/dailykos/index?m=1588

I think he makes a good point.

All the "impeachment" talk seems to be silly for a couple of reasons. One, do we really want Cheney as president? Two, if not Cheney because of scandal, do we really want Dennis Hastert as president? Three, do we want to follow the example of Connecticut?

Connecticut had a corrupt, incompetent governor in John Rowland. Under investigation for his corruption, Rowland's approval ratings were in the dumps and he eventually resigned. Things looked great for the state Democratic Party at the time, with the state GOP in disarray. Then Republican Lt. Gov. Jodi Rell took the reigns of the state and began to clean house. She now has the highest approval rating of all governors in the country. She will have no serious opposition in 2006.

Impeachment would, at best, saddle us with Cheney or Hastert in the Oval Office, at worst, give Republicans an opportunity to clean house and redeem themselves. Screw that. Now's not the time to give them a lifeline. It's time to throw them the anvil. ...

...

We have bigger fish to fry than getting even against Bush for his misdeeds. Bush has three years of radioactive lame duck-ness left in his term. The key isn't to replace him with another Republican. The key is to use his every day in office to drive him to the American public the cost we pay as a nation for electing Republicans to office.

And as far as legacies go, what would be worst -- destroying his own presidency or destroying his entire party? Let's make sure it's the latter.

(Emphasis mine.)

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brainshrub

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Sat Nov-12-05 03:16 PM
Response to Original message

1. Plus, it open the possibility of a pardon for the BFEE.

Here is where I want to see Bush:

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hlthe2b

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Sat Nov-12-05 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #1

5. serving in an Argentinian jail where dinner isn't served until

after 10 PM? LOL

(Bush apparently got pissed over a state dinner served at 10 pm recently according to a Novakula article) :rofl:

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brainshrub

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Sat Nov-12-05 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #5

12. yeah, I read about how upset Bush was at being kept up past bedtime.

Fucking asshat.

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wakeme2008

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Sat Nov-12-05 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #5

14. Novakula missed a little FACT

Argentinia is TWO hours ahead of DC

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2245016&mesg_id=2245044

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louis-t

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Sat Nov-12-05 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #14

17. What? They didn't set their clocks ahead for him?

Heads will roll!

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Cleita

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Sat Nov-12-05 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #5

16. If you eat dinner at all in most of SA it's generally served after

Edited on Sat Nov-12-05 03:40 PM by Cleita

nine P.M and lasts several hours. To do otherwise shows a lack of etiquette. Usually, tea is the last meal of the day. The main meal is served sometime after noon, not in the evening like it is here. Isn't the POTUS supposed to have a staff that educates him on the protocol of different nations when he visits?

What an inept and incompetent administration this is on every level. Also, I don't know about Argentina but in Bolivia and many other countries prisoners don't get meals. If they don't have relatives to bring them meals or cash to buy them, the prisoners are out of luck.

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Cleita

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Sat Nov-12-05 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #16

19. One moment please. I distinctly remember reading somewhere

Edited on Sat Nov-12-05 03:48 PM by Cleita

or maybe even here that Nancy Pelosi could end up as POTUS, if those other guys are indicted and found guilty along with Bush. I'm almost positive that Cheney would be brought down with Bush. Probably Hastert has a lot of dirty linen to wash in an investigation and hearing, so it could be we won't have to have them at all.

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hlthe2b

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Sat Nov-12-05 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #19

23. .. this scenario only plays out if the House is taken by DEMS

Edited on Sat Nov-12-05 03:56 PM by hlthe2b

in 06 and then Bush/CHeney are out...THen Pelosi is next in line presumedly..

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Cleita

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Sat Nov-12-05 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #23

25. Thanks for clarifying this. I wasn't sure how it would happen.

So we need to wait to take the House in 2006. But how do we do that with all those new R districts in Texas. Can this redistricting be considered null and void once Tom Delay is put in jail?

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hlthe2b

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Sat Nov-12-05 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #16

20. EXACTLY.... their arrogance knows no bounds...

Apparently all countries are supposed to adapt their customs to those preferred by the all powerful "leader of the free world..."

to paraphrase Malloy in my own vernacular, have I said lately how much these people disgust me?

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Ian David

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Sat Nov-12-05 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #5

38. At least he didn't vomit all over his host, did he?

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Faygo Kid

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Sat Nov-12-05 03:17 PM
Response to Original message

2. Cheney, Hastert would be crippled. Cheney would have to go, anyway.

If Bush was impeached, the evidence would force Cheney out, too. Besides, the moral imperative of driving out a president who lied to take us to war is way too historically important to let political consideration get in the way. He should be impeached.

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NMDemDist2

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Sat Nov-12-05 03:18 PM
Response to Original message

3. indeed, when Nixon/Agnew left we got Ford, who was (lucky for us)

a moderate Repub. Moderates in the Repub party are almost non existent these days and certainly don't hold any positions of power

as much as it turns my stomach to think of listening to Chimpy McDrool for three more years, the alternatives aren't palatable either at this point

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SomewhereOutThere424

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Sat Nov-12-05 03:19 PM
Response to Original message

4. I'm starting to think bush's impeachment would follow all the list

Edited on Sat Nov-12-05 03:19 PM by SomewhereOutThere424

He assigned during his presidency. I'd say 80% of the administration can be found guilty of impeachable offenses right alongside him...and have often wondered if it happened who /would/ become president? Going down the line until you reach a less guilty republican or a democrat?

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DoYouEverWonder

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Sat Nov-12-05 03:20 PM
Response to Original message

6. Christ, how many times does it need to be explained

that this is not how it will work. The order of succession is only initiated if the President suddenly is incapacitated or removed from office. The way to avoid that is to make sure Cheney resigns first. Then Bush can NOMINATE the next VP, who must be approved by Congress. The closest Hastert is every going to get to the presidency is on the receiving line.

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Arugula Latte

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Sat Nov-12-05 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #6

11. That would be dangerous, I think.

The Repukes could put in someone like McCain or Giuliani, setting them up nicely for '08.

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Cleita

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Sat Nov-12-05 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #11

27. A little history lesson about Nixon.

Nixon's Vice President, Spiro Agnew, was taken down first. Nixon then appointed Gerald Ford as his VP. Then Nixon resigned because he was about to be impeached and Ford became President for the rest of Nixon's term. Because he pardoned Nixon, he was not reelected.

I'm certain that if McCain or Giuliani were made Vice President, they would have to pardon Bush, ergo they lose a re-election. Actually, both McCain and Giuliani have lost any charisma that they once had because of their brown nosing of the Bush regime so I don't think they would be re-elected anyway.

One good thing about McCain is that he would end the torture prisons and he was once in the military and might do something more intelligent than Bush in the capacity of Commander-in-chief that might get us out of these ME quagmire.

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ray of light

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Sat Nov-12-05 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #6

13. actually, the point is well made...

Destroy the whole party and clean out the crooks. Doesn't help to clean only the top gun.

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Demoiselle

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Sat Nov-12-05 03:20 PM
Response to Original message

7. I'd rather have Hastert than Bush or Cheney. Besides, the way things are..

going, Hastert might be gone courtesy of Abramoff ere long. It's better right now I think to go after them on substantive issues of wrongdoing, and not jump the gun on impeachment.

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xchrom

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Sat Nov-12-05 03:21 PM
Response to Original message

8. i don't think hastert is up to the job frankly.

besides their budget{i.e. every child left behind} is fucking a lot of people.

a new president would have that to overcome.
it's hard to over come stupid legislation that you fought to get passed.

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Somawas

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Sat Nov-12-05 03:22 PM
Response to Original message

9. Yep. We should leave the evil bugger in place.

and drive home the message of how bad he and his ilk are. So bad that the mere mention of his name will hang on every Republican nominee for a generation, and turn Republican nominees into politically dead men walking, surrounded with the stench of cronyism, corporatism, outsourcing, war, famine, huner, pestilence, profligacy and death.

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LoKnLoD

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Sat Nov-12-05 03:23 PM
Response to Original message

10. Nov 2006

Take over the Congress and the Senate and their bullshit agenda will be done for. That will be better than impeachment.

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wakeme2008

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Sat Nov-12-05 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #10

15. Right...

take over Congress and in 2008 replace Bush....

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Nay

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Sat Nov-12-05 03:41 PM
Response to Original message

18. I made this exact point in a post a few days ago. The repubs need

to burn in hell for the next 30 years, and since a lot of the voters are just now getting a clue, we need the pubs in office to fuck up royally for 3 more years. THEN maybe the public will wake up and stay woke up, so we can have a few years of a normal country and decent existence.

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whalerider55

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Sat Nov-12-05 03:53 PM
Response to Original message

21. personally...

Edited on Sat Nov-12-05 03:53 PM by whalerider55

i am a little leery of keeping bush around, hoisted on his own petard.

my fear is that after three years of exposure, ineptitude and the fleeing of his own party from the inertia and superficiality of the bush policy wankers, the pugs will find a way to distance themselves without doing serious damage to their party, repudiate bush(es), and find their balance.

you've heard of compassion fatigue; bush proved, until an angel of justice descended from on high to nail one little liar,that the converse also exists... corruption fatigue.

not us; but the rest of the country.

i say, let the chips fall where they may. when they may, in whatever order they may. three years of exposure to the lame duck may actually give the pugs time to discover an antidote/innoculant.

just my 2 cents....

whakerider

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Cleita

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Sat Nov-12-05 03:53 PM
Response to Original message

22. If we don't impeach him it sends the message that

they can get away with this. You can be sure that the minute a Democrat takes office the GOP will do everything they can to get this new President impeached as quickly as possible.

This is the same reason we should recall Arnold in California because the stinking GOP will try to use any legal loophole they can to unseat a Democrat in power.

Those new Democratic Governors that just got elected? The Democratic Party needs to research any ways the GOP can unseat those new governors because the GOP will do it at the first opportunity and they have the money to do it.

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CTyankee

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Sat Nov-12-05 03:56 PM
Response to Original message

24. No, impeach his ass and Cheney's ass if Dems win Congress back

That way, bye bye Hastert, hello Nancy Pelosi and hello Madame President.

As for CT, let's wait and see what happens. Some of this crap has got to stick to Rell who WAS, after all, a member of the Rowland administration as his Lt. Gov. I will certainly vote for DeStefano (my mayor)who will run against her.

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Warren Stupidity

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Sat Nov-12-05 04:13 PM
Response to Original message

26. Democratic Doublethink Disease

Look, I know this may be a shock to some people, but the reason for impeachment of the president is compelling evidence of high crimes and misdemeanors, not the political advantage or disadvantage said impeachment would bestow on our party. Impeach because it is the right thing to do, and let the chips fall where they may.

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Cleita

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Sat Nov-12-05 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #26

28. I agree 100% that this is the reason to do this.

Edited on Sat Nov-12-05 04:23 PM by Cleita

It's morally imperative that we don't let these murdering thugs hurt anyone else if we can help to stop it.

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understandinglife

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Sat Nov-12-05 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #26

32. Precisely. We have war criminals in the White House and THAT ...

Edited on Sat Nov-12-05 05:07 PM by understandinglife

... is what WE must remedy -- NOW, not a year from now, or after "2008" or .... .

This is not about POLITICS and someone should sit lawyer and blog-pundit Markos down and explain that fact to him.

We must bring Bush, Cheney and the neoconsters to justice and that must happen irrespective of any political consideration.

The world is watching US - you and me and every other American citizen to see if we have the capacity to be what we claim rather than merely making noise about government of the people, by the people, for the people - about the rule of law.

Let's get with it, everyone. The whole world is watching US.

Peace.

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Kahuna

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Sat Nov-12-05 04:46 PM
Response to Original message

29. Obviously, bush and cheney are a two -fer. How can you impeach..

Edited on Sat Nov-12-05 04:47 PM by Kahuna

one without impeaching the other? Duh. And, that ogre Hastert on the heels of bush and cheney is so unappealing that he will surely be the nail on the republican coffin.

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DearAbby

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Sat Nov-12-05 04:59 PM
Response to Original message

30. How many lives are worth waiting another three years because

it may benefit the Democratic Party? HOW MANY LIVES??

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understandinglife

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Sat Nov-12-05 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #30

34. ZERO.

Edited on Sat Nov-12-05 05:09 PM by understandinglife

We must act, now.

The whole world is watching - US.

See my comment # 32, as well.

Peace.

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NNN0LHI

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Sat Nov-12-05 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #30

35. About one year and we have the votes to impeach and put a Dem in office

We can do neither right now.

Don

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DearAbby

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Sat Nov-12-05 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #35

37. I know that NNNOLHI...It just irks me when people disguss this like it is

a political game, its not, its very real...and deadly.

:hug:

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in_cog_ni_to

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Sat Nov-12-05 05:04 PM
Response to Original message

31. THEN, when he's out of office the Dems can investigate his ass

and indict him. Orange jumpsuit and handcuffs.

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NNN0LHI

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Sat Nov-12-05 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #31

33. No thanks

Have Fitzgerald investigate his ass. I want the truth.

Don

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in_cog_ni_to

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Sat Nov-12-05 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #33

36. Hopefully he'll get to that in the next three years.

Edited on Sat Nov-12-05 05:14 PM by in_cog_ni_to

:) If not, we have a better chance of getting the truth out of the Dems than the repukes....depending on who the new Dem prez is that is. If it's Biden, :puke: Forget it! If it's someone like Wes Clark...his ass is grass.

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