My attitude toward unions changed when I became politically aware

I frankly didn't pay much attention to them. But they were so great during the campaign, offering their space and helping as much as they could, that I find myself honking at picket lines and pumping my fist at them. I never did that before.

Anyone else have a reaction like that. I still don't know much about the issues facing the unions now. I know they're weaker than they were. And I'm conflicted sometimes when I wonder if the their leaders aren't taking them for a ride.

But I sure did appreciate their help this last election.

but the reality so often involves massive corruption that I am conflicted about their effectiveness.

while it's true that certain unions were corrupted in the past by organised crime and crooked politicians, by and large that just isn't the case. but unions are a victim of the same apathy that affects the american democracy as a whole and that lack of participation by the rank and file can all too easily lead to abuse of power by the officials of any organization, unions included.

that said, i believe unions are a vital and essential element of any system that is based on capitalism. there is simply no other effective way for a worker to counter the wealth of the corporate. if everyone of us were strong union members, there would be no bull shit like wal-mart locking workers in overnight, or retired folks losing their pensions because ken lay manipulated energy prices. a three week long general strike and single payer health-care would be a reality.

about corruption and unions. But, hey, what would I expect on a Democratic board? Dems and unions are like horse and carriage. A long, long history and in many ways a glorious one.

In life I have often wished for a cosmic calculator...the ability to look at something and see all the good things in one column and the bad in another, and then hit a button and see whether or not the thing was more good than bad or vice versa. But I don't.

I know so many posts pointed out things like the 40-hour work week, weekends, benefits, etc. But I'm also from a very heavily industrial area (or it used to be) and knew about union beatings, closed shops, coercion, bribes, etc.

And probably no surprise, given my opinion, is that my dad was in "management" at a large chemical company. He was upper level science and not responsible for employees, but he was salaried and held patents for the company. More than once he would be gone for months at a time, living in the plant, because he wouldn't cross the picket line and he and his colleagues wanted to continue to work on their projects, one of which was the invention of the high speed mammogram film. They were scary times for us as a family and we used to go live with my grandparents when the strikes would get ugly because management homes had been attacked with bottles and bricks.

One last impression I have of unions is the one I used to belong to, the NEA. About 15 years ago, our state started to offer merit pay. If you jumped through some pretty vigorous hoops you could get 9K over three years. You had to take a test as the final hoop. It was challenging. I took the test the second year and passed it and got my first installment. But teachers who did not pass or who did not want to jump through the hoops complained to the union, who talked our district out of participating. The first cohort got their 9K, mine only got that first year. I lost 6K (a whole lot of money 15 years ago) because of it. It seemed to me that the all for one, one for all attitude was celebrating mediocrity rather than excellence.

I have seen, too many times, the teacher's union protect piss-pour educators who should not be allowed near children. And, yes, I have also seen administrators lay off harassing good teachers because of the threat of union intervention. I wish I had that cosmic calculator. In our district now, very few teachers belong to the union anymore and we are doing just fine.

I doubt it. I think unions are probably far less corrupt than ordinary politicians and Washington D.C. are.

This is a tactic frequently used by the right wing: attacking the other side for being greatly imperfect, when they, themselves are not only imperfect, but excessively criminal.

Try to listen more critically of these "charges of corruption" coming from corporate media when it concerns collective worker rights. True, the hands of a few union leaders are not clean, that is far from the norm.

Ask yourself, why is there no nightly labor report on after the nightly business report? Then ask yourself, who owns these networks and why they wouldn't have a labor report. Then ask yourself, would they be reporting the truth whenever a strike happens, or have a balanced coverage of any union leadership when accusations of corruption are brought forth.

...can only involve missuse and theft of dues or sweetheart deals with companies involved.I would guess that even a sweetheart deal leaves the worker with better pay and benefits than if there were no union...While I would prefer pristine motives accrued to all union reps, I'll take a beneficial corruption over corporate oppression...

and they have done much good in their history---also some bad, but that is to be expected from a fairly new concept (considering how old corporations really are!) I just wish they would catch on for MY job--they have them for dancers out west and in SF, but it is still seen as "ridiculous" by most adult entertainment companies. Someday, when I retire, I am going to spearhead this movement. Really.

PM me if you'd like to join.

work for any large company without them.

...benefits, largely thanks to my union. Unions are the heart and fist of labor. Without unions, we would all be either indentured slaves or economic sharecroppers.

indirect advantages and gains they get due to unions.

:thumbsup:

Some non unionized workers seem to think that their forty hour work weeks, week-ends off, healthcare, safety standards, sickpay, paid vacation, etc. are just given to them through the goodness of their employer's heart. They have no idea how many have shed blood (literally) to earn these rights for ALL workers.

height then there is nowhere for them to go but down. Except maybe out, due to imported scabs.

But the unions lost their clout when Reagan fired the air controllers in 1981. What should have happen then was every union in the country should have stood with the Air Controllers in solidarity and stood up against Ronald Reagan and even going on strike nation wide. This country would have been at a stand still and it would have only taken 1/2 day and Reagan would have backed down...But the AFL-CIO members refused to do that...

that will bring unions down faster than anything; not standing up for each other. We were locked out by our company for a period of 3 months and another union had merged with us the year before. While walking the picket line with BOTH their union's logo and our's, they crossed our picket line to do work for the company. When I pointed out to them that their logo was on our picket signs, they said "oh, we didn't know" - give me a break; they knew.

If one thinks about it our government Representatives have their own little union.....except they vote themselves raises,have their own benifit package,but they don't have to sign a contract to get them.

acknowledge a different union at our company about 10 years ago, so our own union is to blame also. Our company had 3 different unions working there and if we had all recognized each other's picket lines it would have shut the company down until they signed a decent contract, so they all need to stand together, at least for the first week of picketing.

We honor any picket line. If we have freight to deliver to a picketed customer, we cannot be disciplined for refusing to cross their line. I've taken the freight back to the terminal many times and took great pride in doing the right thing. If you are a union member, never cross a picket line. You will appreciate it when others honor your line someday.

corporate America spends fighting unions and you will see just how important they really are. We would have sh*t working conditions in just about every occupation if it weren't for the unions. Let's support our union brothers and sisters in their struggles against inhumanity.

You said it all, good job.

I don't know much about unions. Not at all really. I'm sure many are completely beneficial, and I know they support our party.

But my company has a union part (The Production end) and an office part. I think the union is what hurts Production the most. They are paid almost twice what we are, get more vacation days, and are lazy as lazy can be. What they can get away with is nauseating to me, and in a time when we are at capacity and need them to pull their weight, it is very hurtful to our company that they just continue to mass underachieve.

SO that is the only real Union environment I've seen, and it makes them seem like a bunch of excuse makers with no intention to work collecting a big fat paycheck without any pride in what they do. That is my place though, that is not a judgement on Unions in general.

I just wish I had more exposure to the real Unions that protect the worker so that I can understand more what they are about.

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Actually, I work my ass off. I'm on the Production floor all of the time. We are a very fast paced company, under a lot of pressure. Everyone in the facility is constantly running around, constantly working hard, constantly doing everything they could to get the orders out the door. Everybody that is, except for most of the Production workers. There are a handful of them that bust their assess too, but the majority of them could care less. All they care about is doing the bare minimum that they have to in order to keep their jobs.

As I said, I'm not knocking unions. I'm knocking my company's Union. I started in the Union in my company. But I had pride in what I did. So all I got everyday was resentment and belittled because I actually wanted to work. Cause I wanted to help. Cause I wanted to take pride in what I did.

on edit: Other posts in this thread just reminded me. I wasn't thinking about like Teachers Unions, Nurses Unions etc.. I absolutely support them.

Why? Is this the ultimate goal of human existence? To work frenetically, only to be downsized more, so that who's left has even more work to do? This is the reality of corporate America. We use corporate slogans and propaganda like "fast paced company" "Teamwork" "Loyalty" etc. to make us happy to bbe the serfs that they want us to be.

Yes, in any company there will be a few people that will seem not to pull their own weight. That is human nature. Some are happier being overachievers, while others are content with only what is required. We all though, have our qualities. Only the social darwinist propaganda of Rand, the libertarian evangelists and Horatio Alger want to try and elevate over work, greed, and midnight oil burners to the level of sainthood, far superior to others in the species.

I have to ask, because I see attitudes like yours where I work (which is 100% union). How do you know so much about what others are doing? Shouldn't you be concentrating on what you do instead? You can't be doing your work as efficiently as you should if your too busy keeping tabs on what others are not doing.

And understand where you are coming from.

In all fairness though, to answer your question of why do I know so much, I must say that it is part of my job to know that. I work very closely with all the Union staff, and am on the floor constantly. I also have to run data, queries, etc constantly and have charts, trends, averages, etc. So I, more than almost anyone, know exactly who's doing what, when, how, how far behind we are, what needs to be done, what orders are left, how many pours are left, etc. It is my job to know all of that stuff, so it's not like I just have some grudge against them and am spouting at the mouth without knowing what they really do or something. I know what they do, I did it myself. I also know what they are capable of doing, and most fall farrrrrr short. I want you to understand where I am coming from, and want to offer maybe some clearer analogy. If I said you had one hour to mix together the ingredients to make a cake, and that at the end of the hour it just simply had to be brought to the oven, but didn't even have to be in it yet, just ready to be put in, that's all, you could probably mix those 7-8 ingredients in a bowl by then right? What if I came back an hour later and literally, in a full hour, all you did was break two eggs and put it in the bowl, and put one cup of flour in. That's it. Just broke 2 eggs, and measured one cup of flour. In a full hour. Would I be judging you too harshly if you've been cooking for 5 years and I called you lazy?

Far be it for me to assume that baking is simple, and that people should know the skills by rote, which also goes for assembly line work, where they're given a specific task to do over and over again. I can only relate it to my world, which baking and assembly line work seems tedious and simple. Example, I've baked cakes and other breads before, but I've never made 25 of them in a day. As well, I've put together model trains and airplanes, but I've never made a suitcase or a car.

What I do is assemble and get telecommunication circuits to work. In my world it's called provisioning. It is boring, extremely complicated, as there are literally hundreds of different phone system layouts, each one is different from another. The databases are not always correct, and a few have been corrupted. Every time an area code changes, the database does not get updated, which causes problems. What the job entails is assigning pipes (T1s) and loading them on to T3s, to carry the circuit from one city to another, using existing wires under the ground. Wires I never see, connected to equipment I never see, as I'm working on a remote terminal. I then turn up the cirrcuit so that calls can be made on it...if I'm lucky. It's extremely complicated, very high knowledge, and every different job in telecom needs an altered skillset, which could take years before one is proficient at it. Some get it sooner than others. Many fall behind on their due dates, because of the level of corruption in the DB, the lack of help, etc. And others gripe and moan that they're doing more work than others. And to top it all off, there's no tangible way I know I've accomplished something, since I can neither see, feel, or hear my work at the end of the day. Just a pile of manilla folders to turn in... a smaller pile than I'm supposed to have.

Have you ever thrown your hands up at something you just can't figure out after 4 hours of trying, and said "Uncle!"? There are times when the complications get so much, and the pressure to perform something you barely know the basics on is so high, that I just shut down out of frustration, and I don't think that it's just laziness on my part, although others in my office, who have been doing this for 5 years seem to think so. Couple that with a couple of drama queen tech managers who need their asses kissed in order for them to provide you with answers to your trouble. They both (being pad at least $75,000 a year)have quarter boxes on their cubes, as a joke...not very funny, but indicative of the contempt they have for us on the floor.

I get paid big bucks to do this... more than twice as much as my non-union counterparts working at my competitors. They, I can only imagine, are having the same type of job I have, and I wouldn't do this for $12 an hour. It's actually worth more than I get paid for now, even with union wages.

Unfortunately I can't reveal exactly what we do, cause it is a very limited industry and it would be very easy for some to figure out exactly where I work.

It isn't an assembly type job where it is the same simple task over and over, each pour is generally a different item though you may repeat the same item several times a day, much like flour may be a similar ingredient in several recipes. They basically have pots that they put on a scale, and pour each ingredient one at a time, until the required weight is hit, and then scan the pour as complete. Their screen will then show the next item to pour, and they push their cart to the location of the item and proceed to pour the next item. The average worker finishes five to six formulas a day, each consisting of maybe 9 or 10 line items. All the systems they use are relatively simple and there is no real brainwork that needs to be performed. The reason I say they underperform is because they do to such an extent that it is blatantly obvious to anyone, you, me, anyone. It's not that I don't understand what they do, or the complexities they face, as I did it, and even now am an integral part of the entire process. But how they work, is they may pour 2 to 3 items in one area, and then while walking to another area, stop and talk to another compounder for literally 20-30 minutes at a time. Then they'll pour 2-3 more items, and talk to someone else for 20-30 minutes or even longer at times. They each get 2 15 minute breaks a day and an hour lunch. They get paid about 25-30 dollars an hour, to literally do not much more then putting a pot on a scale, and pouring say sugar into the pot until the scale reads between 1950 and 2050 grams (weight doesn't even need to be exact, there is a tolerance).

I hope this gives you a little more understanding of where I'm coming from, and I'm sorry I can't say the exact details of what we do and how the process works.

However, in the interest of solidarity, I shouldn't get jealous. It's very hard not to succumb to the emotions that somebody is getting more than me for doing something (at least in my mind) is much simpler. They should try filling in blanks on these provisioning systems that are 10 times more complicated than Bill Gates' tax return for less.

See what I mean? You have to resist that raw emotion to blame unions for lack of work by others(I know you haven't) but it's important not to for the survival and future growth of the labor movement. Giving into that "unions breed laziness" meme is what the Corporate taskmasters want us to do. Divide and Conquer. Enough of me sounding like Yoda. Take care.:hi:

!

:kick:

attacked? Didn't mean any harm in my post, I was just being honest about MY company. That's it. And believe me, any of you would probably agree 100% if you saw them. Put it this way, the average amount of pours any regular joe off the street could do on his first full day on the job is 80. Absolute minimum. Yet the average daily pour rate of our compounders is only around 50. Now I'm sorry, but to me that is just unacceptable.

You say "in a time when we are at capacity"...that is exactly when a union should be sure to hold production steady.It is NOT a unions job to "pull their weight" or "show pride"....their job is to ensure no work speed-ups occur without an increase in compensation-You yourself know the company was making a reasonable return on investment at a lower capacity-why should the laborers increase their workload to increase profits without an equal gain.
Your problem seems to be much more one of envy....do you realize that for "almost twice" what you get they must have their own skill sets?That they must perform manual operations all day? That in the summer they may be expected to work without air conditioning and in winter with less heat? That their work environment is regimented and restrictive (think about having to "request" a lavatory break)??And all of this with equipment offering injuries by far more severe than a paper cut??
Anyhow, when you think what work environments, consider the job conditions of Bob Crachit from A Christmas Carol-because without the work of thousands of pioneering union men that's JUST where you would be!!!

I'm not putting down Unions. I admitted I'm too ignorant on the subject to be able to discuss it with knowledge. Instead, I could just reply on my own exposure, which is my company's.

When I said at capacity I didn't mean to imply that I expected them to give more than 100%, or even 100%. My point is that they are only performing at 40% of what could be expected from a regular joe off the street could do without feeling like they were even working hard.

I'm all for employee rights, but I guess it is probably just a case of our workers taking advantage of the system. I don't want them to have a bad working environment, or bust their assess, or exhaust themselves... hell no. I just want them to do as much in 8 hours as a regular joe could do in 4. I fail to see why that makes me a bad person in some way.

Each and every one just on the verge of a typing sweat or filing cramps?Not a single fatass gossiping, sipping coffee, or sneaking in a personal phone call???No 40 minute,half hour lunches no looking out the window, no humming to a favorite song on the radio???
I worked in a shop that went union, and the company's founder (the current bosses father) was APPALLED that I was allowed to do my job sitting at a workbench...in the "Old Days" the guys in my position were expected to stand 8 hours a day-He told me that as far as he was concerned that sitting while working was "just like stealing from the company"...Unions protect people from people with bad attitudes...

I don't like them either. The difference is though that none of them are vital to the organization. Every union employee's job is at the heart of what we do. Those of us in the offices who directly impact orders going out the door are in fact running around like you wouldn't believe workin our asses off. But yes, we can make phone calls and stuff, that's ok. I don't care if the Production crew does either. That's not what I'm getting at. Honestly, I regret saying anything to begin with. I didn't know it was gonna piss a few of you off.

My only gripe with the union at my company is this: Without working hard, without bad environment, without feeling taken advantage of, without unfair working conditions, they could easily pour 100-150 items per day. Without even working hard. In reality, they are only doing on average 50.

edit because i'm stoopit.

affecting quality?

with any product or service, there's cheap, fast, and quality. you can have any combination of TWO, but not all three.

I don't want them to bust their asses, or sacrifice safety or quality for speed. Safety first, then quality, then service. That is the order of priority. But you've gotta believe me, this isn't about me wanting hard labor or something, not at all! I totally support workers rights and think what corps like Walmart do is deplorable!

But in my place, it's not even that I'm asking them to pick up the pace. I am Production Support, so I am on the floor often running around. Each time I go out there a bunch of them are just hiding, talking to each other, not doing anything, for a half hour or more at a time, multiple times throughout the day. I also collect and analyze a bunch of data, and can easily see with some of it that out of an 8 hour day, they spend only about 2 to 3 hours of it actually doing anything at all.

I really do apologize to anyone if my initial feelings actually were offensive somehow.

as not vital to the company and then tell me every union man is "at the heart of what we do"-then get pissed they make "ALMOST" twice what you do???Why not fire the "ton of Lazy Asses" you admit are in non vital, non union jobs and split their wages??? See-envy all gone....

Work should be what the average worker is capable of doing. That means taking into consideration age, height, strength and other factors.

I don't know how strenuous the job is at your workplace or the production standards expected from the employees.

We have production daily quotas to meet. We don't work faster because of it. We work longer if mgmt determines it is necessary to meet the quota. If an employee can't complete their job because the work load is too much then it is reduced and added to someone elses job or a new job is created if there is enough to create a new job. Production requirements determine line speed and job content.

Assembly workers as a percentage of time work more than most white collar workers. We have line speed that allots .85 of a minute for each job. We have salary people that do inventory that use to be part of the worker's job. The result we have too much inventory or not enough on hand. The amount of work they produce vs the assembly workers?? At best 2 hours. We have management that appear to have dead end jobs and rarely see them out on the floor. We have management people that are suppose to take care of quality or other issues but when they are needed they don't show up.

The job itself isn't really that straining, and our best Production worker is a 5 foot tall woman of Indian descent. When I said average Joe I meant average. Height, race, weight, age, doesn't matter. I'm telling you, any one of working capability taken off the street could outperform most of them on the floor 2 to 1 on the first day.

As far as quotas go, we have a target of 65% of orders manufactured by midnight that were assigned to be done that day. Right now, Year to date, we are at 24.6%

I'm not against workers, or unions, or anything like that. Please understand isn't it possible that they truly really are taking advantage of the system?

Then you can get great benefits and a fat paycheck, too.

I still regret getting out of the union cause I made less last year than I did my 2nd year in the company. I've now been with them 10 years. I got out of the union though initially cause I was resented daily cause I actually did a good job. I didn't like being hated because I wanted to go home with pride in what I accomplished that day.

These people are hard working people. Busting their butts everyday. Management treats them like shit. I had to share an office space with a superviser who was constantly calling the workers stupid and lazy. Not to their faces, but it shows the attitude of management. The more management make workers feel pushed, the workers push back. It really didn't have much to do with the union.
Years ago, we were all a team trying to make deadlines. Now it's back to them against us.

I think you are way off base. Don't know how long you'll be around with this attitude. Let me ask you this. Who manages the company where you work? The union? I don't think so. If the union is not adhering to the contract then management needs to take action.

I don't know what attitude you are referring to. I didn't think I've had any attitude at all throughout this discussion. Actually, I've been attacked by several of you simply because I offered a view on my company. I wasn't attacking unions, my god.

And yes, supervision takes blame too. They are never around on the floor because they are running around doing other things. Thing is though, there is nothing in the contract about a minimum pour requirement. They would strike if there was.

And honestly, I'm gonna stay out of this thread the rest of the way. I offered a simple opinion and never wanted it to turn into some uncalled for flamefest merely because what I said was misunderstood. It's ok though, I know passions can run high at times and people are just waiting to pull the trigger. I also realize though that no matter what else I post in this thread, it will continue to be taken out of context and used to attack me back, to the point I can't win. So I probably won't respond back to any further posts in this thread, for the sake of us all.

Once again, SORRY if my original post was offensive somehow. I didn't post in this thread looking to stir up anything at all. I'm sure outside this one thread we will get along just fine, as I share your same values, politics, and sincerity.

...the little guy is about to get fucked? Think "The few, the proud' the marines"...

I never put down anybody, and am on the same side as you protecting the little guy. Fact is, in our company chain, I'm the little guy myself. I bust my ass and am one of the core people of what we do everyday, and I don't get any friggin respect myself in the corporation. There are many others also that bust their asses and don't get crap for it.

I would challenge you to point out what in any of my posts have offended you so much. I have done my best to be civil, and lord knows never intended to piss anybody off. But it is apparent from your attacking responses that for whatever reason I did piss you off. Sorry bout that. But in all fairness, would it be too much to ask what it is I said that offended you so? Or what I said that in any shape or form implied that I am against the "little people" or out to get anybody, or am some corporatist bastard somehow? Cause I just don't see it at all. I can't stand corporate structure, I fight for the little guy, share your values and passion, yet have to be subjected to your attacks? It's ok, everyone is allowed to have misplaced anger, but please understand that you are attacking someone who believes the same as you, and you are attacking somebody who did nothing to you, nor anything to incite you. So please, forgive me if you mistook my intent, and in the future may we get along as we are on the same page fighting the same battles.

Thank you.

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1. Once you were only here two days also. Were you any less liberal then? I did not denigrate EVERY union member at my company, I said some work very hard, but the majority of them do the bare minimum necessary. Yes, many of them are lazy and do not take pride in the job they do. It is blatantly obvious.

2. Which is it? It is both. I am technically the little guy on the chain, I do bust my ass, and I am extremely vital in the operations I perform. So I am all of the above. Not sure where the problem lies in that.

As far as the rest goes, you can feel however you want. Of course I never intended to piss anybody off, and have abundantly made that clear. And yes, we do share the same values for the most part, and yes, I am a liberal, damn proud of it too. What I can't understand is that why no matter how sensitive I tried to make my words, how clear the intent, and how obvious I made it that I wasn't attacking unions, just my exposure to the union at MY company, that you still feel the need to have been so offended. Tell me, what if they ARE as lazy as I say, that even you would have to admit it. What if they do in fact show no pride whatsoever in what they do, to the point that you could see it in a heartbeat. What if we do have an overall good atmosphere, good working practices, safety priority, level of talking with respect, and otherwise positive mark working environment. What If they are in fact just simply taking advantage of the situation and hurting our business because of it?

all done unless you can actually refute point one-Bye

Unions are what built America.

unions.

Unions should decide if they're really only just social clubs for their members and then put that in their name or make that explicit to members, so members can make their decisions if they want to buy golfing buddies or if they want to be part of what is going to happen in this country, along with the rest of us, and to their benefit.

Nixon's "silent majority" and the anti-establishment anti-war hippy movement drove a deep and dangerous wedge between labor and students during the Vietnam war ... shows like "All in the Family" did a good job capturing the cultural and political chasm between the two groups ...

and the blue collar Reagan Democrats further weakened the natural affinity between labor and the Democratic Party ...

last year i worked hard for local Democrats and was amazed at how much money and campaign support the unions were willing and able to provide ... for reasons both valid and not valid, unions don't seem to have very good reputations in the US ...

still, they are a natural constituency for the Democratic Party ... pushing a pro-labor plank, a real pro-labor plank, should be a major component of the Democratic Party's agenda ... a nice start would be to eliminate special "tax discounts" for capital gains ... why should investment earnings be taxed at lower rates than the earnings produced from the sweat of American labor?

I was pretty young when I saw it

I wonder how many industries have stories like that one.

Almost each....can you imagine ANY segment of business or industry that welcomed the organization of labor???Every item people now recognize as the "rights" of the workforce was paid for in dispair and blood.Remember that "blue" and "progressive" companies are today,even after a century of organized labor,a VERY unusual cat.Do you really believe that any workforce was granted gratis a TWO DAY WEEKEND???Do you know that in the last three years a tree trimming service in New Hampshire was CONVICTED of violating US statutes regarding slavery in a labor case??How about in the same timeframe a group of ten (or more) central americans drowning after their van went off a bridge in rural Maine while working for a timber firm???As we watch current disputes regarding what is called "labor vs. management" remember it is trily labor vs. capital.Time and a half after forty hours (per week) or after eight (per day)-it sounds innoccuous until you've been forced to work three 12 hour days and then laid off to avoid overtime...They are rolling the clock back and when they finish with the unions,you're next.

Ever seen this bumper sticker?

Weekends - Brought to you by Unions.

Just one benefit that somebody's grandaddy or grandma took a shot to the head for -and that people take for granted today.

today is that people don't want to actually work for the rights previous union people not only worked but died for.

Today people want all the perks but not the responsibilities. They don't want to hurt at all, don't want to make any kind of sacrifice. We hear, 'but we'll go hungry if we try to force the company to recognize us as human'.

If you look at the history of unions you have to wonder how the coal miners managed to stand up to the owners when the company owned not only the mines, but the houses the workers lived in, the grocery stores that supplied their food, the utilities, the water. But they did it. It hurt, yes, it hurt. But from it came the United Mine Workers and safer working conditions (still not good, but a hell of a lot better than it was), the abolition of children in the mines...the start of child labor laws.

Today, we're going back to that time when the company owned everything, including the clothes on your back. And people are thinking that others will protect them and what they see as their rights.

In that same vein, that's how unions have ended up (not all, but some) with less than ethical leadership...because the rank and file don't want to do the work it would take to keep the union in the hands of the members.

I work for a union. I grew up in a union family...Steelworkers and Railroad. I know what it takes to make a union work and the members today just aren't doing it. When they lose all their protections, will there be a Samuel Gompers and Mother Jones to help them get them back?

I see the good unions do everyday.I'm very thankful to work in a union shop,we're paid better,safer,and put out better products then non union or foreign shops.

The northern Panhandle of West Virginia, coal and steel country. I've always looked fondly upon unions, and not just because of my upbringing. When I learned just how much injustice was done to workers prior to the inception of unionization, I understood why unions are such an important institution. A mass of unorganized individuals is impotent in the face of a corporate behemoth, only by pooling their interests can workers balance the proverbial scale.

I'm glad that you're beginning to feel the same way as I about organized labor! :)

DISCLAIMER: Just my $.03 (inflation)

MojoXN

My grandfather was a 65-year member of the Carpenters' Union, having joined for a dollar during the Depression, and he always warned about the dangers of voting for uncaring, anti-worker Republicans.

Frankly, I'm sick and tired of people who discuss whether unions are still needed, or if worker protections, or workplace regulations (OSHA, for example) are still needed, as if corporations have learned their lessons and are now friends of the worker, which as we know here is pure nonsense.

And as for my grandfather, I doubt he would have had the long, healthy life and steady retirement he enjoyed without union membership. The same could be said for his having been able to own a house, put a son through college, and travel in his golden years.

Unions allow the common worker to enjoy a good life and to be treated with dignity.

is my best friend. I have several portions memorized & parts of it tabbed for quick & easy reference. :evilgrin:

dg

yet. ;) But for stuff that I regularly have to fight about, I've memorized. :)

dg

If you like going to work and not getting killed by poorly constructed machinery or bad air quality or any other workplace hazard, and if you like the fact that your kid isn't working in a sweatshop you better thank the unions.

Take care to remember where the 40 hour work week came from and where the concept of employer paid benefits came from--that was also a little "perk" that the unions thought up along with minimum wage. I'm not even gonna go into the whole discussion about your rights as an employee (like not having to live in company housing or being forced to shop only in the company owned store.)

I am dead serious when I tell you all that the minute you start to doubt WHY unions are vital to the future of this country and our workers, you need to start reading about what is going on in plants in Central America and in the plants in the Pacific rim. The stories should scare hell out of you because THAT is where the US workers would be without the unions and the labor movement.

Read about the Triangle Shirtwaist fire in New York. Read about Haymarket, and read about places like Chicago, West Virginia, Southern Illinois and Cripple Creek Colorado. If that isn't enough to convince you, read here for an eclectic history of labor:

http://www.lutins.org/labor.html

I never cease to marvel on here at the low post count people that turn out to tell the "personal story" about union members that are corrupt, lazy or milking the system. I dunno where they come from, and I don't care--all I do know is that I care about social justice and I care about the future workers in this country. THAT is why I am strongly pro-union.

I work side by side with union people every day and i am proud of every damn one of them. They bust ass to do a good job, and they get paid too little for what they do. That union contract does very little for them except to provide for fair treatment if they get saddled with a crappy boss. Somehow that doesn't seem like too much to ask.

We need to do a much better job teaching the history of organized labor. Seems to me that too many people have no clue what it is all about.



Laura

in the past century would have been as poor as the Mexican working class is. This is why our minimum wage jobs are so attractive to the undocumented working class Mexican. Don't worry though. With all the union busting efforts of the corporations aided and abetted by their Republican lap dogs, you may still see that kind of poverty in America. Because you see, even if you don't belong to a union you still once benefited from the wage increases they were able to bring to the table.

Private business will always try to buy government, and pay hefty amounts to get their own people elected, and they have enough money to do so. One of the reasons private business tries to buy government is to make slave labor possible (or as close to it as they can get it, anyway). See anything about the Robber Barons and what life was like before unions made damned sure business all people were paid what they were worth. Corporations and their right arm, right wingers, are very afraid of American children knowing these things. If children learned these things, we wouldn't all be sitting around asking, "What are unions good for anyway?" That's why the GOP works so hard to get their people elected to school boards. How else would information like this get censored from school books?

One of the pioneers of the current Christian textbook censorship of public school books, Mel Gabler, said this years before his death: "When a student reads in a math book that there are no absolutes, suddenly every value he's been taught is destroyed. And the next thing you know, the student turns to crime and drugs."

But I digress. We need to learn about unions, what they did for us, what they do for us, and what will happen to us if there is ever a prohibition or complete elimination of unions.