Sometimes I wish Jesse Jackson would just shut up...

Does he have to stick his nose into everything?

He really ticked me off with his involvement in the Terri Schiavo fiasco...now I guess defending millionaire crybaby football players is his next priority!!!

Ralph Nader is in it too...these guys have become caricatures of their former great selves!!!

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2222483

The punishment in no way fits the "crime". It's ridiculous.

Doesn't Jesse Jackson have anything better to involve himself in? I mean really...priorities...and it smacks of another Jackson effort to get his name in the paper.

constant attack on black leaders like Jackson. I happen to agree with him. Why should Owens be treated so severely. What crime did Owens commit. When the athlete is black, often the criticism and penalties are more severe. Jackson has every right to comment on the situation. I get so tired of the constant attack on black people who dare to express their opinion. And I am so sick of all the right wing rhetoric. Jackson's ego, Jackson media hog, blah, blah. Just an attempt to silence any black person who fights for fair treatment of African Americans.

:shrug: Why say "Black" Leader and not just Leader?

Yes his punishment is soooo harsh he is going to be paid like 1 mil to sit out 4 games....

And it has nothing to do with attacking black people who express their opinion. T.O. is a loudmouth and is detrimental to the Eagles team, and they have every right to do what they did. Their job is to win games, not cater to every whim of spoiled superstars, and I would say the same thing no matter who it was. The fact is that Donovan McNabb wants him off too.

Jesse Jackson was a great leader who now thinks he needs to stick his nose into every situation no matter how irrelevent. He is making himself irrelevent and that is sad!

Same goes for Ralph Nader though I think that occurred in 2000!!!

Jesse Jackson was correct, the punish was too severe for the offense committed. Jesse Jackson's lifetime work is to fight injustice and make life better for the less fortunate. Has that goal been achieved in America? The answer is no. Why is it that he cannot say anything about an issue any more without being attacked. Why do you think that it is only he who should go somewhere and sit down. Everyday I see people who are no longer in office on the air expressing their views. Why don't you demand that Robert Reich, Warren Rudnman, Arthur Schliesinger, Ted Sorenson, Gary Hart, Terry McCullough and others go somewhere and sit down. Why are they not being accused of grandstanding, of having a big ego? Is it because they rarely talk about issues of concern to black people? And you just don't seem to have a clue. I am glad that Jesse Jackson speaks out. You might think the issue of a black player not being treated fairly, is irrelevant, I disagree. I have been on the receiving end of such treatment many times, and injustice bothers the heck out of me. And another thing, why the concern about the money black players make. Anytime a black athlete gets into trouble, the first comment from certain people is about his money. It's as though black players are expected to accept any kind of abuse because they are being paid well. Those players go out there and play for that money and they make the owners very, very rich. I read that the owners earn far more than the players. The athletes also sustain many injuries which they often must live with the rest of their lives.

Jesse Jackson is still a decent man who tries hard to make things better. I am highly suspicious of those who wish to shut him up. I wonder if deep in their hearts what they really are concerned about is his continued attempt to achieved equal treatment for African Americans. That, imo, is why he is hated. Your kind of anger I would expect to come from the likes of Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Riley. They have demonized black leaders like Jesse and it's solely because they fight for civil rights. Jesse Jackson is acceptable when he is arranging voting drives to register African Americans who mostly vote democrat. When he speaks in favor of civil rights or defends someone black he thinks was treated unfairly, suddenly he should shut up. Your comment was most unfair, imo.

You said

"Jesse Jackson's lifetime work is to fight injustice and make life better for the less fortunate."

So at 4 mil a year Terrell Owens is less fortunate...interesting.

"Why don't you demand that Robert Reich, Warren Rudnman, Arthur Schliesinger, Ted Sorenson, Gary Hart, Terry McCullough and others go somewhere and sit down."

I do often, if I disagree, or if I believe they have ulterior motives. I have written many times that Terry McCullough (sp) should just shut up, same with any number of leaders...their color doesn't matter to me. However, that was not the subject of the post...it was about Jackson, and Nader getting involved in something that was beneath their talents, only to garner publicity IMO.

"And another thing, why the concern about the money black players make. Anytime a black athlete gets into trouble, the first comment from certain people is about his money. It's as though black players are expected to accept any kind of abuse because they are being paid well."

I am only speaking for myself. If a guy, athlete or anyone bahaves like an "A" hole, I am going to call him out...I don't care what color he is. T.O. has been warned time and time again about his behavior and he did not listen, he is now getting the punishment that was promised. There have been many white athletes put in the same position (Ryan Leaf, Jeff George to name a couple).

"I am highly suspicious of those who wish to shut him up"

Look, I voted for Jesse in the 1988 Virginia primary. I don't want him to shut up about everything, just about these IMO irrelevent issues he involves himself in seemingly for the purpose of gaining publicity.

"Your kind of anger I would expect to come from the likes of Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Riley. They have demonized black leaders like Jesse and it's solely because they fight for civil rights. Jesse Jackson is acceptable when he is arranging voting drives to register African Americans who mostly vote democrat. When he speaks in favor of civil rights or defends someone black he thinks was treated unfairly, suddenly he should shut up. Your comment was most unfair, imo."

Pure Bullshit!!! To define T.O. as someone treated unfairly is bizarre in the extreme. He is paid millions of dollars to play football. And after this suspension is over he will be paid a million to sit on his ass...some punishment.

And you know nothing about me...and to accuse me of baing racist (which is what you are doing by comparing me to O'Reilly and Limbaugh), is far worse than me calling out T.O. for being a jerk, and for Jesse Jackson for wasting his talents on something so irrelevent

It is possible to be an asshole and be black. Just as it is possible to be an asshole and be white, or gay, or lesbian, or asian, or anything else. Teams have bent over backwards to accommodate T.O.'s behavior until finally one of them had enough. I hope he learns his lesson

"Jesse Jackson's lifetime work is to fight injustice and make life better for the less fortunate."

So at 4 mil a year Terrell Owens is less fortunate...interesting."
YOu know perfectly well what I meant when I said the less fortunate so I won't even bother to elaborate.

So you think that just because a person is rich he cannot be treated unfairly? Really, that is so absurd. Every day, rich people sue because they feel they were treated unfairly. Money does not always immune one from injustice. Jesse Jackson thinks Owens was treated unfairly and has every right to say so. You disagree and want to shut him up. Real nice of you.

Every time Jackson does or says anything these days, he's attacked. I even see it here on a forum of progressives. Owens not being the nicest guy in the world is not the issue. The issue is whether the punishment fits the offense. I think not. I am so sick and tired of attacks on black leaders and those attacks usually occur when they are speaking about civil rights or defending a black person. Truly disgusting.

Because he takes on irrelevent issues...and he gets himself involved in issues, IMO, to gain publicity.

His behavior in regards to the Schiavo's was reprehensible, both in the position he took, and the matter in which he publicized it.

T.O. is not being treated unfairly. He was repeatedly warned what the consequences of his behavior would be. He did not live up to the contract he signed, and so he is being punished. He has appealed his suspension which is his right to do, and it may be lowered. He is being treated exactly the way the system he agreed to when he signed his contract should treat those who do what he did.

As to Jesse's right to say what he wants. Again, I am not saying Jesse Jackson does not have the right to say what he wants. But he is not above criticism just because he has an opinion. He has picked the wrong fight here IMO.

He is attacked because people don't like his message. So he was involved in the Schiavo case, so what. Why don't you stop and think for a moment. He is a minister, for crying out loud. I know other ministers who took the same view as he did. In fact I know a lot of people who are not ministers who shared his belief. Furthermore, members of her family asked him to become involved. That is often the case with Jackson and when he responds to requests, he is accused of grandstanding. As for as irrelevant issues are concerned, just because you may think such issues are irrelevant, that does not make them so. I don't think the Owens issue is at all irrelevant. But then, I know what it feels like being on the receiving end of injustice.

Ministers are not above criticism either. We criticize Falwell and Robertson all the time. He could have responded to the family privately if he was trying to comfort them. No, he swoops in at the last minute, when all the courts have ruled,and there is nothing he could actually do, and gets his face on TV taking this position. He used Terri and Michael Schiavos anguish for his own purposes...and that is reprehensible.

I am sorry, but T.O.'s case is irrelevent. He is not the victim of injustice, he is not the victim of racism (in this case). He is the victim of his own big mouth. He is being treated exactly the way he should be treated. If his punishment is too harsh, it will be reduced through the system he agreed to follow when he signed his contract.

As to whether an issue is irrelevent becasue I say so...it isn't...that is my point. And, just because Jesse Jackson takes on an issue, it doesn't make him right either!

were not above criticism, I didn't. But common sense would make one understand why a minister might take a position based on his beliefs. Why should he be vilified for doing so and told to shut up. The answer is, he shouldn't be.

You are dead wrong about Jackson and the Shiavo case. Her family asked him to come and he acceded to their demands. Now you want to blame him for not ignoring their request because you sided with Mr. Schiavo. Everything you have stated about Jackson is exactly what O'Riley and Limbaugh have said about him. It is right out their mouths and that is most unfortunate. Jackson tries to do what is right and that includes fighting against injustice. Some people don't like that and will use any excuse to attack him.

I never said that just because Jackson takes on an issue it had to right. However, I can't think of many issues on which I have been in disagreement. My point is that he has every right to take those positions, every right to express his opinion. You, on the other hand obvious dislike him, doesn't agree with his views and wishes to shut him up. I think that is very wrong.

has led to dramatically different stances on a wide range of issues. Being a minister clearly doesn't lead to a predictable position on almost anything.

And he CHOSE to side with the Schindlers - doesn't matter that they asked him. He must be asked to do hundreds of things every month that he chooses NOT to do.

Jackson isn't sacred - his choices are subject to scrutiny criticism, just like Falwell's, Bill Clinton's, John Kerry's and Phyllis Schlafly's.

But then perhaps you really do and just can't admit that your stance is dead wrong. Ministers have certain beliefs and they can be expected to act on those beliefs. Ministers like Jackson believe in helping the less fortunate of society and they are taught to respond to calls for help. That is what Jackson did and I will not fault him for that. A lot of ministers share the same belief and would have acted similarly. In this instance he thinks Owens was wronged and said so. You disagree and want to shut him up. I don't like much of what Fallwell and Robertson say and yet I have never felt that they should just shut up. They still have a right to their opinion. You, on the other hand don't want Jackson to do what is his life calling. You want him to go into a corner and sit down. How very wrong of you.

And Jackson must get hundreds of calls for "help" every month. It's HIS call to decide what to respond to and how. He couldn't help but know about the Schiavo case and who was who.

His being a minister is completely beside the point - there were other ministers who disagreed.

His actions in this matter were no better than Tom Delay's, IMO.

I don't "want to shut him up". I think he's wrong.

You seem to want ME to "go into a corner and sit down".

Congratulations, you're not the first.

T.O. is a loud mouth windbag who was warned NUMEROUS times to stop talking negatively about his team. But, his hubris was too big to listen.

This is a cautionary tale for those who are too big for their britches. Somehow, I think TO will be just fine.

picture when he arrives on the scene. It is just too obvious that his career has become seeking attention. Come on, how many events can one cover and maintain credibility?

pity. He's quite well respected by millions of people including me. People start spouting the right wing rhetoric the minute Jackson comes on the scene. Shade of Bill O'Riley and Rush Limbaugh. Jackson has done absolutely nothing wrong by speaking on this issue. People constantly attack Jackson because they really do not like his stand on civil rights.

They'd rather he and others stand around wringing their hands, remaining almost invisible, and speaking only when spoken to.

You'd almost think it would finally dawn on people what they are saying about themselves when they launch on someone who has spoken out. They are saying he's getting attention they don't want him to have. You have to wonder why they resent it, and why they are pretending he doesn't have every right to be involved.

I still remember when imbeciles were calling Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. names, even though you won't find any of them who admit it now. Now they pretend to compare Jesse Jackson and others to him to show how much better a leader Dr. King was, when they are attempting to devaluate their reputations.

Takes all kinds, unfortunately.

I think threads like these speak volumes.

Black leaders are always attacked. People seize upon anything with which to criticize them. Jesse Jackson must be strong and secure in himself to withstand the kind of vitriol always being directed at him. It seems that there is latent prejudice even among people supposedly liberal. All it takes is an incident and that prejudice rises to the surface and manifests itself.

that they feel are right.

Well the reason that Jesse receives such strong support in his community, and around the world, is because he has been there, whatever the issue.

How many people, even many Blacks, felt that MLK should not have supported the garbage workers?

How many thought MLK should not have gotten involved in being agaist the Viet Nam War?

Asking Jesse to take a survey of White America to see if he should help his OWN people is like asking him not to breath!

He was trained at the right side of MLK and that spirit runs deep inside his bones.

Mighty funny that just about everyone on this Board was delighted that he stood with Conyers and the rest of the CBC to protect the votes of African Americans for the election.

Mighty funny people were cheering when he worked to free the hostages!

Mighty funny that Liberals were cheering him on when he stood by Bill Clinton and worked behind the scenes to see that Clinton stayed in office.

Mighty funny isn't it!

are more than willing to use Jackson when it suits their purpose. However when he speaks in support of civil rights, well that's another story. Martin Luther King was also vilified. He was called a communist and an outside agitator all for speaking out against injustice. Jackson is in good company.

in the public eye from siding with them, and disagreeing when they don't?

If you like him fine, don't like him fine.

I am saying that the Black community selects their own leaders and when they do something we don't agree with, we let them know it.

But Jesse and Al have been their for us in our darkest hours and we have good memories and respect for both of them.

In fact, to be honest, the more White people tell us what our leaders need to do and not do, the more we a sure that we see them as heroes.

who are subject to criticism every day on DU.

I'm not giving Jackson any more of a special pass than anyone else. And when I voice my difference with him, it's not because I want to tell him what he needs to do, but because I disagree with him.

No double standards here.

is a good guy, a good guy still out their fighting for justice. It says a lot that someone would be saying that he has gone askew simply by expressing his opinion that a black player was treated unfairly. One would think that some on this forum believes that that never occurs to African Americans.

I tell you what...if my boss wants to pay me a million dollars to sit on the bench...I'll be glad to. What is this bizzaro world. TO got what he deserved...color makes no difference...if you are an "a" hole disrupting the team...you get punished. It's not like he wasn't warned...time and time again what the consequences would be...but he just couldn't keep his mouth shut. I hope he learned his lesson. He'll catch on with another team, and if he learns its about the team winnig and not just drawing attention to himself, he will be fine...if he didn't then he will be in the same place he is now in two years!

I wasn't really discussing Owens. I was discussing Jesse Jackson and the continued attacks on him. He can't say anything these days without people coming out of the woodwork expressing their hatred. I think he has a right to express his opinion just like everyone else without being told to shut up. I don't like the opinions of a lot of people but believe they have the perfect right to express them.

I get so tired of this utter outrage at any black man who offends. It goes way overboard. Then there is always this talk of the black man's money. Almost seems as if some people really resent the fact that some black athletes are earning millions of dollars. Well, that money is not being given to them, they are earning it and in the process making the owners very rich. Funny, no one ever brings up the millions of dollars those black players are making for the owners. Those resentful persons seems to believe that the players should be willing to suffer any kind of injustice because they are millionaires. Other wealthy individuals aren't expected to accept injustice in silence, why are black millionaires supposed to do so. Ah, but it's that old double standard rearing its ugly head.

" White America May I?" before he takes a step.

He is grown and he does not have to ask permission before he supports someone.

GWB doesn't ask anyone's permission to do any dumb thing he wants to and for worse not better, he is the President of all of us.

If we want to focus on someone or some issues, let's focus on someone who HATES Liberals and thinks that anyone that is FOR what he is AGAINST doesn't count.

Let Jesse alone, when the next election comes, you'll all be begging him to " bring out the Black vote."


Maybe next time, he'll say that he is far too weary,you do it.

That Jesse Jackson is above all criticism...because why? Because he is Jesse Jackson?

No one is questioning his RIGHT to say what he wants. However, freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

until GWB got elected it was a free country.

I'll be attending a meeting with Jesse in a month or so. I'll let him know what some Liberal Democrats feel about him for defending
his own people.


PEACE and JUSTICE

Well feel free to tell him that some liberal Democrats question his decision to get involved defending a spoiled multi-millionaire who can't keep his mouth shut for the good of his team!

I have no problem with that!

btw, Donovan McNabb agrees that TO is being punished appropriately. Isn't he one of Jesse's people too?!

and knowing Jesse as I do, he will keep on doing what HE believes is right to do.


One thing that always fascinates me, how can WE possibly know about all the issues that the Players are dealing with, Jesse talks to everyone and over a period of many years,he has given his all to issues that he believes in.

But I will let him know how you feel.

PEACE

free speech for yourself, but not TO? For goodness sakes! Shocking!

T.O. can say anything he likes...but he has to accept the consequences of what he says. There is no unfettered right to say anything you like without consequence. The only guarantee is that the government cannot impose unreasonable limitations on your speech. That is why, of course, the FBI is not knocking T.O.'s door down.

T.O. works for the Philadelphia Eagles. It is clearly spelled out in the CBA what constitutes behavior detrimantal to the team. T.O. crossed that line, just like when coaches and players get fined for criticizing an official in public. T.O. has to abide by the rules he agreed to follow when he signed his contract. He did not, he was warned numerous times, and he was finally punished. It's no more complicated than that. He is not some working class hero defending the right of the little man to be heard. He is a loudmouth millionaire who does not care about his teammates trying to draw attention to himself. And he succeeded.

that some people define this in such limited terms. You are one of them. You also wish Jesse would "shut up." I understand that you wish that TO and Jesse would shut up.

Lots of others feel differently. That's why athletes, like other workers, often have unions. And unions do not tend to accept the narrow definitions that you find comfort in. There was a time when no one dared speak up for Jack Johnson, who was behaving a lot like TO is today. But that time is long gone. Maybe you were born too late.

Have you ever found reason to criticize Jesse Jackson on any matter?

Do you approve of Terrell Owen's behavior towards his coach and teammates?

wished Jesse Jackson would just "shut up." I do not agree with Jesse on everything .... any time two people think just alike, only one of them is thinking. Yet my disagreeing on issues does not demand that I "criticize" him.

Likewise, it is of no significance if I agree with TO's behavior. I do think the consequences are too severe. I note that some of the guys on ESPN have said the same thing.

I should not have used the words shut up in my post. I regret that now. Because it does not convey what I actually meant. I was just so exasperated that he decided to get involved in this issue.

The truth of the matter is I used to admire Jesse Jackson enormously. I voted for him on the one opportunity I had to do so (1988 Virginia Primary). I don't want him to shut up in perpertuity. I do feel that he takes on issues of irrelevence (which I belive this is), to keep his name in the paper.

I found his behavior in relation to Terri Schiavo's situation particularly reprehensible, both in the position he took, and the manner he insinuated himself. He behaved no better IMO than any of the other people trying to gain publicity for themselves at the expense of Michael and Terri Schiavo.

This is what frustrates me about the man. He can be awe inspiring at times such as at the 1984 Democratic convention and at Rosa Parks funeral. But more and more lately, and I have the same criticism of Raplh Nader, he seems to insinuate himself in issues that are beneath him, and only make him more irrelevent in the eyes of many, including many of those who had formerly supported him.

on the Schiavo case. I thought he was mistaken. But I was not offended, because I thought that his being there helped the country to debate the issue on its merits, rather than on strictly "democrat versus republican" terms. And discussion/debate on topics is needed today, on a wide range of issues.

A short story, which is 100% true: Many, many years ago, I was driving with three friends to a near-by state university to see Jesse. All three friends kept saying Jesse was a con man. I said he was a prophet, with human frailties, but a man of God nonetheless.

They scoffed at me -- is that not what friends are for? -- and I said that not only was I right, but there would be a sign that would convince them. We got to the university, and waited in line for tickets. Finally, when there were but two people ahead of us, the person at the counter announced there was only one ticket left. The woman ahead of me bought it, and then realized that her boyfriend could not get in. She turned to me, and said, "You're in luck," and gave me the ticket.

My three friends had to watch the presentation on a screen in another university hall, of course. (I had drove my vehicle, and could not entrust it to such lowlife as my friends.) When I got out, they all admitted Jesse's presentation was powerful.

Helped define the paramters of acceptable behavior. The union is headed by a former black player. Terrell Owens broke those rules. He is being punished (if you want to call it that).

is unfair attacks on a person who does not deserve it. Jackson came to the defense of a black athlete and suddenly he should shut up? He is vilified for expressing his opinion. He wasn't told to shut up when he was expressing his support for Clinton, Gore, and Kerry. He wasn't told to shut up when he organized voting drives to register black voters who usually vote democrat. No, he is told to shut up when he demands that blacks be treated fairly. It is perfectly clear why people are so angry at Jackson. This discussion is a perfect example of why more and more blacks believe that the Democratic Party only wants them for their votes and aren't that concerned about problems blacks must face every day. When black leaders speak out for justice, they are castigated by some people and told to shut up.

I am criticizing Jackson for a stand he is taking...

Is Jesse Jackson above criticism?

on DU?

For goodness sakes, we criticize everyone else. Jackson is not entitled to immunity.

TO, because I heard about Nader earlier.
Jesse Jackson can be great (he rocked at Mama Rosa's funeral), but Jesse is a bore at times. I have lots of hope for his son though.

"What about Al Sharpton"

"What about Howard Dean"

"What about Cindy Sheehan"

"What about Moveon.org"

"What about George Soros"

"What about Michael Moore"

would we be!

We need all the voices to keep HOPE alive and let Justice roll like a mighty stream.

I wish we would stop eating our own.

There are far more important things to be concerned about.

more than one thing at a time.

So why did you waste time posting on a topic you feel is a waste of time to begin with?:shrug:

to say what he believes. The Associated Press doesn't have to cover it.

I agree with Jackson that the punishment is too strong. I hate TO but he should be released so he can move on.

Eagles take a big cap hit...he is only suspended for 3 games...after that he sits...but still gets paid.

He's getting what he deserves IMO!

I personally disagree with his views on both those subjects, but he can argue any damned thing he likes.

Believe Jesse Jackson is above all criticism.

He's done a lot of good over the years, but by picking fights on everything and grandstanding a lot, he's shot himself in the foot more than enough. Whatever. He's an elder statesman of sorts, and sometimes they just careen around out of control.

I have never heard Jesse Jackson speak on anything that was not important to poor people and the African American community: voting rights, police brutality, disparate treatment of black and white criminal defendants, draconian drug laws, Katrina victims, freedom for American soldiers, lack of jobs in the inner cities, lack of black businesses,poor schools. The list is long of causes he has fought for, of changes he has tried to make to better people's lives. Now some people, supposedly progressive(but probably not) are spouting the same right wing garbage that one hears on Fox News. Jesse Jackson has a right to his opinion and I can see no reason why anyone should be attacking him for it. I find the attacks on him disgusting. He has spent his entire life trying to do good for all people.

I might also add that African Americans are often accused of being unintelligible by people who do not like what they have to say. That comment speaks volumes about the person uttering it. I have no difficulty whatsoever in understanding Mr. Jackson.

He doesn't mumble, he's not a mush-mouth, he is highly articulate.

I agree with you, having never heard him at a loss for words, or having trouble being understood.

He's very much at ease speaking around others, no doubt a result of his decades of public speaking. He probably wouldn't have gone into the business he entered if he didn't have some real ability.

Jackson do so because they really don't like his message. They resort to pettiness such as saying that he is unintelligible. Like you, I have no difficulty in understanding him. I think he is a very intelligent man and has the ability to see an issue clearly. I remember him warning people about Ronald Reagan. He said it was most important that people voted in that election because Reagan would not be good for America. And he was right. Reagan was anti civil rights, anti poor, and it was during his administration that bigotry became fashionable again.

GWB can't be understood, drunk all the time, but he is President.


Jesse stands up for Justice and some claim they can't understand him.

Sure did understand him when he worked like hell for all the Liberal Democratic causes.

But when he steps out to help his own people, he is not articulate.

Sit on your hands and mouth for the next election Jesse and let them beg for your help.

that he can address to stay on track. :eyes:

Jesse isn't obligated to meet the needs of spectators. He does what he thinks is important.

:thumbsup:

another of your posts on this hread that you do, too! There is some funny business going on in the USA today .... when people want to establish a dress code for black NBA players, or silence TO, etc etc. Or when someone says they want Jesse to "shut up," then accuses me of trying to stifle free speech when I disagree.

and want to make him a puppet for everything else.

It doesn't work that way.

YOU get it H2O!

Jesse hears from the players that they are getting big money but must do everything just like the Owners tell them to do.

Owners? huum.

PEACE and JUSTICE

certain types of people uncomfortable. Some feel so uncomfortable, they wish he would just "shut up." Not going to happen.

people feel comfortable and uncomfortable.

When the history books are written, Jesse Jackson will be hailed as a DRum Major for Justice.

He trys his best to help the poor.

He trys his best to help the sick.

And he trys his best to elect Democrats.

The dress code in the NBA is not for "black" players...it is for all players. Most of the players I have heard interviewed support the decision.

And of course I did not accuse you of trying to stifle my right of free speech...you have it backwards. I accused you of implying I was trying to stifle Jesse Jacksons right to free speech. Much different thing

anyone reading both of our posts will understand who has their facts right.

But we all know who the focus is on.

PEACE

Doesn't mean he isn't wrong in this case!

Doesn't mean he isn't wrong in this case!

Not stifling your "free speech," even when you repeat yourself.

corporate cash ball?

get a life and deal with real issues instead of the bread and circus's that are dolled out to you.

Sports has quite an influence on our culture, and Jesse has as much right to support TO as Howard Cosell had to support Ali. Ken Burns recently had a show on the great Jack Johnson, who was likewise dispised by some in this society. There are always going to be people who find athletes, from Johnson to Ali to TO offensive. And they will be upset by Cosell or Jackson's support of them. Too bad.

No one is questioning Jackson's right to say anything he likes. That doesn't mean others don't have a right to criticize him. Free speech is just that, the right to speak, it is not immunity from criticism.

Jesse has the right to free speech. You have the right to post your finding his support of TO offensive to your beliefs of what Jesse should or should not say. I have not questioned your right; rather, I have exercised my own. In doing so, I place Jesse's actions into a larger context, with examples of situations where others have found similar things offensive.

"Sports has quite an influence on our culture, and Jesse has as much right to support TO as Howard Cosell had to support Ali."

The clear implication of this statement is that those who criticize Jackson's actions are saying he has no right to say them. That is clearly not true!!!

You are adding your own ideas to my post. It doesn't say that. The "clear implication" you speak of exists only between your ears.

People had the right to hate Cosell for sticking up for Ali. Never have I advocated the denial of their constitutional rights to say whatever is on their mind. I will, however, always stand by men like Cosell and Jackson. I need not try to add "clear implications" to your posts here to conclude that you wish Jesse would "shut up." I think that answers who is thinking in terms of limiting other's right to express their opinion.

I state a criticism of Jesse Jackson.

You reply saying Jackson has a right to say what he wants.

The natural and clear implication, since you are replying to my assertion is that I questioned Jackson's right to speak.

I did not. Now that I know you were not implying that I meant that, there is no more question.

do I support free speech, but I encourage people to read. Perhaps if you noticed that you responded to where I had responded to someone other than you, you would not have reacted like a person on a hot seat.

More, there is no implication that I meant anything other than I wrote. I'm very capable of expressing myself. I did put your comment on wanting Jesse to "shut up" into a cultural context, because it belongs in a group with those who wanted Cosell to "shut up."

A more annoying TV personality I cannot remember!

And I'm glad he didn't. Lots of people hated having a Jewish lawyer speak up for a Muslim who advocated black Americans not fight in Vietnam.

ANd I hope you don't think that would object to that kind of advocacy...far more important IMO than defending T.O.'s behavior.

I simply thought he was a highly annoying sports announcer. I was only a kid!

We can't have TO acting like old Jack Johnson. He needs to "learn his place."

I'm sure that most people who hated Cosell were offended by his choice in neckties. There have always been some who have different ideas about what neckties are appropriate for people like Cosell and Jesse, TO and Ali, and on and on.

Absolutely ridiculous. T.O. is interested in only one thing. Drawing attention to himself. He doesn't care at all about his teammates, or for acting like he is part of the team.

T.O. is not the victim of racism, he is the victim of his big fat ego!

He signed a contract which complied with the Collective Bargaining agreement. It is clearly stated what constitutes "conduct detrimental to the team" He did not abide by it, was warned numerous times, and was finally punished.

So is Donovan McNabb a part of the system trying to keep poor T.O. down?

think TO is among the most valuable football players today. You don't. You wish that certain people would just "shut up." Oh, well. I think that TO will continue being himself -- and I'm glad for that. And I think Jesse will continue to do what he thinks is right. hank goodness for that.

He would be the most valuable. He is an exceptionally gifted player. But when a man as accommodating and rational as Donovan McNabb can't work with him...it is a sign that he has crossed the line of acceptable behavior in the context of the NFL!

team may want him.

Too bad he "can't behave and be acceptable."

All businesses have a code of conduct. In the NFL, not criticizing your teammates and coach in public is one of the biggest. He agreed to these rules when he signed his contract. He did not live up to them, after being given numerous chances, and he is being punished.

I am sure he will find a team to go too, and hopefully, he will realize the way to success in the NFL is as a part of the team, and not as a vehicle to draw attention only to himself.

I am more concerned that GWB knows the rules and he doesn't give a hoot about any of us or the Rules of the land.

His decisions affect us everyday.

And finally it seems he is being held at least somewhat accountable!!!

A more annoying TV personality I cannot remember!

TV personality, Cosell personified class. He understood constitutional law. He was hated by those who hated Ali, but the US Supreme Court ruled 8 to 0 that Ali was correct. Cosell was right.

there's a pretty big difference between an athlete like Ali taking a courageous stand on the issue of the Vietnam War and a prima donna like TO saying his team would be better off with a different quarterback. The guy's undoubtably an extremely gifted wide receiver, but what other redeeming qualities does he have that should make us revere him as a hero like Ali or Johnson? From where I'm sitting, it looks like we're comparing apples and oranges.

In defence of Jackson and Nader, one should observe that they both tirelessly champion the cause of social justice, but their statements on child poverty don't make for entertaining soundbites like their statements on TO do. Hence we only get the TO coverage.

that someone would say that there is a significant difference between Ali and TO (and there is, as far as Ali's draft case, though in an effort to be accurate, many people hated him before he was drafted), I added in the great Jack Johnson. Jack was not terribly different than TO; while his career was popular with blacks, he was not known for advocating anyone else's rights, any more than TO. He was still a fascinating character. He was, as boxing historians know, not the first black heavyweight champion, but he was the first of the modern era, and was a wonderful athlete.

... whatever he wants, whenever he wants, just as we all do. I might not agree with all that he says, but he can make one stop and think a bit.

But...

I think Professional athletes, no matter what race, and entertainers, no matter what race, get paid way too much as it is. They do not have to worry about where their next meal is coming from. I think those that have the ability to make a lot of people listen, should help those that can not, or have trouble troube doing so, help themselves.

Have a nice day.

Just like I have the right to call him out on it if I think he is wasting his time, and only doing it for publicity purposes!

them the RIGHT to speech?

For goodness sakes, haven't people on DU wished often enough that Coulter or Limbaugh would shut up? No one made a fuss that I saw over their RIGHT to free speech in response.

play and make everyone rise up and cheer,how much is that worth?

How much do you think Shaq should get paid? What would be fair?

A Million a Year? Two? 10 million?

I really can't put a price on how much should be given to an player who can go out and play their heart out and in one second, break something and never play again.

One thing I do know, the owners are not starving!

The last time I looked on ebay for tickets to the UCLA vs. SC game the tickets were going for $250 and up.

I was shocked!!

So how much is a pro player worth?
Whatever the traffic will bare I suppose.

I am more concerned with how much the Heads of Enron STOLE from the
employees!

I am more concerned with the unfair labor practices at Wal Mart.

I am more concerned about Halliburton stealing all the contracts and Cheney and Bush greedy for more.

PEACE

If these players can get the big bucks...the more power to them. If the leagues were not making money they wouldn't be paying these salaries (no matter what the MLB says).

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I have not heard one peep from one poster at DU about Jesse/Al taking many sleepless nights and long hours to inject themselves into the battle to bring in the VOTES.

Why do some care so much about Jesse/Al that they want to be sure they are picking the battles that YOU think are the RIGHT ones?

Jesse and Al are in the battle while we are sitting up here quarterbacking from the keyboard.


Don't worry about Jesse!

Don't worry about Al!

Worry about the real enemy, GW and the criminals.

They have carried the Civil Rights banner for many a struggle.

They are the Masters of their own plantation.

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Jesse will see it his way.

He will continue to protest for the issue that he feels are important.

It always surprises me that Liberals are so afraid of the other side thinking that we did something wrong.

Republicans are bullies and the only way that you can treat a bully is to not fear him.

Rosa Parks is my hero.

She was small but mighty, a little piece of leather well put together.

PEACE

sided with Terri Schiavo's parents.

Neither changes anything else he's done, but in my eyes both diminish him.