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An Anti-Clark Website........Undoubtedly the work of Rove or Dean or?

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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 08:15 PM
Original message
An Anti-Clark Website........Undoubtedly the work of Rove or Dean or?
http://wwwclark04.com/

SUSPECT WEBSITE TITLED:
Wesley Clark for President - are you sure?:

Wes Clark has a lot more baggage than we thought - before we get behind him (over Dean), let's be sure we know the real Wes Clark!

Paid for by Citizens for a Democrat Candidate for President of the United States???????? or paid for by some of the $200 billion Bushco has to spend on the elections as he runs unopposed;

Check out the tired accusations that have been refutiated since the beginning of Clark's campaign.
------------------------------------
Website Accusation:
“I would have been a Republican if Karl Rove had returned my phone calls.” - General Wesley Clark (January 2003)

Refutiation: Wes Clark was using sarcastic humor at the time . However, some took him seriously. The following is from an article in the Weekly Standard:

Clark Never Called Karl
by Matthew Continetti

WHEN WILL Wesley Clark stop telling tall tales? In the current issue of Newsweek, Howard Fineman reports Clark told Colorado Gov. Bill Owens and University of Denver president Mark Holtzman that "I would have been a Republican if Karl Rove had returned my phone calls."

Unfortunately for Clark, the White House has logged every incoming phone call since the beginning of the Bush administration in January 2001. At the request of THE DAILY STANDARD, White House staffers went through the logs to check whether Clark had ever called White House political adviser Karl Rove. The general hadn't. What's more, Rove says he doesn't remember ever talking to Clark, either.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/152tuawi.asp
For liberal perspective also read : http://blogs.salon.com/0002556/2003/09/21.html
-------------------------------------
Website Accusation:General Clark Explores Possibility Of Time Travel: Wesley Clark: Rhodes scholar, four-star general, NATO commander, time-travel fanatic?

Refutiation: Even one of physics' greatest minds, Stephen Hawking, reversed his earlier viewpoint that time travel was impossible. At a University of Toronto lecture, he said "I believe time travel is possible for individual particles but not for organized systems like ourselves… otherwise we would have tourists from the future." And on his website he adds

...it might seem possible, that as we advance in science and technology, we might be able to construct a wormhole, or warp space and time in some other way, so as to be able to travel into our past.
The lecture concludes with:

...rapid space-travel, or travel back in time, can't be ruled out, according to our present understanding. They would cause great logical problems, so let's hope there's a Chronology Protection Law, to prevent people going back, and killing our parents. But science fiction fans need not lose heart. There's hope in string theory.

One of the reasons for Hawking's change of heart may have been research done by Dr. Amos Ori of Israel. According to a January 2 article in the London Sunday Times, Ori published research in the Physical Review which contradicted Hawking's earlier belief that only negative energy could travel through a black hole. Dr. David Deutsch, a quantum physicist at Wolfson College in Oxford declared:
http://vassa.net/hawking-uoft.htm and also http://blogs.salon.com/0002556/2003/10/02.html
---------------------------------
Website Accusation: General Clark Praised Condi, Powell, Rumsfeld and Bush: 'We Need Them There'
Democratic presidential hopeful General Wesley Clark offered lavish praise for the Bush Administration and its key players in a speech to Republicans -- just two years ago, according to the Drudge Report.

Refutiation:here is the full paragraph of contention:

You see, in the Cold War we were defensive. We were trying to protect our country from communism. Well guess what, it's over. Communism lost. Now we've got to go out there and finish the job and help people live the way they want to live. We've got to let them be all they can be. They want what we have. We've got some challenges ahead in that kind of strategy. We're going to be active, we're going to be forward engaged. But if you look around the world, there's a lot of work to be done. And I'm very glad we've
got the great team in office: men like Colin Powell, Don Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, Condolzeezza Rice, Paul O'Neill--people I know very well--our president, George W. Bush. We need them there, because we've got some tough challenges ahead in Europe.
----------------------
notice he says he is glad to have them in office for the challenges ahead in EUROPE! obviously they have failed in holding Europe to our cause. also notice how the core of his new american patriotism is taking shape with
the "be all you can be" remark.

in the next two paragraphs he further defines the European challenges:
-------------------------
We've got a NATO that's drifting right now. I don't know what's happened to it. But the situation in the Balkans where we've still got thousands of American troops, it's in trouble. It's going downhill on us as we're watching it. Our allies haven't quite picked up the load on that. But our allies say they're going to build a European security and defense program with a rival army to NATO. Well, I think it's a political imperative that
they do more for defense, but I think we have to understand that that linkage between the United Sates and Europe, that bond on security, that's in our interest.
Look, in politics they told me--I don't know anything about politics now, I want to make that clear. But they told me--I read, do my reading in Time magazine and so forth. And they said in politics you've always got to
protect your base. Well, for the United States, our base is Europe. We've got to be there, and we've got to be engaged in Europe. And that means we've got to take care of NATO, we've got to make sure the Europeans stay in it,
and we've got to stay with the problem in the Balkans, even though we don't like it. We will get it resolved, and we'll help bring democracy and Westernization to those countries there.
-------------------------------
Website Accusation:Gen. Shelton shocks Celebrity Forum, says he won't support Clark for president
Retired General H. Hugh Shelton, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff on 9/11, shared his recollection of that day and his views of the war against terrorism with the Foothill College Celebrity Forum audience at Flint Center, Sept. 11 and 12.

Refutiation:NATO's military commander won in Kosovo but not in Washington. Now he has paid with his job.
http://wesleyclark.h1.ru/departure.htm
By John Barry and Christopher Dickey,
Aug. 9, 1999

Gen. Wesley Clark, supreme Allied Commander in Europe, waged and won NATO's campaign for Kosovo without losing a single soldier in action. For the U.S. military, the victory was uniquely—historically—bloodless. Last week Clark learned it was also thankless.

In a midnight call from Washington, Clark was told he'd be relieved of his command at NATO next April, a few months earlier than he'd anticipated. The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Hugh Shelton, presented the decision as a simple matter of giving the post to another deserving officer. Clark, who got the call in the middle of a quick trip to the Baltic republics, was caught off balance. He'd seen Shelton in the United States just the week before. Not a word had been breathed of his replacement. According to one source privy to the conversation, Clark told Shelton the move would be read as a vote of no-confidence in his leadership.

Shelton, brisk and businesslike, said there was no way around it. His replacement—Air Force Gen. Joseph Ralston, vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff—would be forced by law to retire if he weren't given a new slot by April. Clark wasn't buying it. In two conversations that night and again the next day, sources say, he argued that his replacement would be a blow to U.S. efforts to reshape NATO. Shelton wasn't moved. Clark, the 54-year-old warrior, was going to have to step aside for Ralston, the 55-year-old Washington insider.

To salt the wound, news that Clark was leaving early was leaked to The Washington Post within an hour of Shelton's first call. The next day, the White House tried to make nice, heaping praise on Clark's record. Defense Secretary William Cohen suggested, vaguely, that there might be an ambassadorship in the offing. But the equivalent of a gold watch and a pat on the back did little to disguise the insult. "A slap in the face," said one senior European official at NATO headquarters in Brussels. Albanians and Kosovars felt they'd lost a national hero. The French daily Le Monde said Clark was treated "like a bum." Yet, for all that, official Washington had few regrets. "It was botched in the handling, but it's the right decision," a senior administration official told NEWSWEEK.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Website Accusation:Could Clark Be a Stalking Horse for Hillary Clinton?
Clinton-Clark. Don't laugh. I'm serious. That ticket is the only way I can make sense of Gen. Wesley Clark's sudden adventure into presidential politics.
and
Clintons Anoint Clark
The Clintons decided that the Democratic primary campaign was getting out of hand. Howard Dean was getting all the buzz and too much of the passionate left's money. Word was out that Dean as nominee, owing Clintonites nothing, would quickly dump Terry McAuliffe, through whom Bill and Hillary maintain control of the Democratic National Committee.

Refutiation:For the radical right, there is no bigger boogie man than Bill Clinton. We provide some perspective on President Clinton's relationship with General Clark. http://www.clarkmyths.com/myth10.html
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Are Web sites that lie like that legal????? that's what I want to know?
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lindashaw Donating Member (921 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. Re: Karl Rove. A person has to be intelligent to understand irony!
Sheesh! Fineman knows better.
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'm no lawyer, but they're probably legal, I would think
And this has to be the work of Repukes--face it, no Dem would stoop this low.
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Julien Sorel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. LOL
You are mistaken. I can think of a few right here, in fact. :shrug:
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Closer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Put
that mirror down.
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Closer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
3. What's so bad
Edited on Tue Oct-14-03 08:21 PM by Closer
about it? It's all the truth.
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union_maid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Well, for one thing, it's sneaky
The address is meant to capture people who type in the address of Clark's official site incorrectly, like the pop-up traps do. So, whoever did it, is basically dishonest just to start with.
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Kanola Donating Member (392 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
5. These are the typical Repug anti talkin points
that I have heard about Clark. All of them. It is a repug piece of work.IMHO
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LTR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. Smells like neocons
When they put in Hillary Clinton's name, I knew it certainly waasn't from Democrats.

This is a piece of Rovian bullshit. And much of this stuff has been refuted WEEKS ago.

The freepers must be scared to death to do something like this.

When will they ever learn?

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Closer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
8. It says at the bottom
"Paid for by Citizens for a Democrat Candidate for President of the United States."

Doubtful it's from Republicans. Hell, they're FOR their man Clark.
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Justice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. DemocratIC
Notice the Democrat instead of Democratic. Sounds like the work of a RW to me.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Good Point!
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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
9. Why do you say "Rove or Dean" in your subject?
Perhaps you aren't aware of the fact that several of the democratic candidates have raised questions about Clark. Why single Dean out? Haven't Joe Lieberman, John Kerry, John Edwards and Dennis Kucinich also raised questions or volleyed criticisms?
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. Because the website itself says......
"Wes Clark has a lot more baggage than we thought - before we get behind him (over Dean), let's be sure we know the real Wes Clark!"

Also note that I state in my subject title....?
....meaning I don't know who...

Bushco is certainly suspect

Dean is mentioned

But certainly, the list of suspects doesn't stop there.




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SeveneightyWhoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
10. That's nothing!
Here's another chance to plug my VASTLY SUPERIOR anti-Clark page:
http://www.patrioticamerica.net/fea20.html
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Catch22Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. LOL
That's a riot!!!
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. Good Pictures though.....not of Bush of course...
They had to go back a few years to get a good one of BunnyPanties...

But Wes sure looks good, even in the ones they claim is at a bad angle!
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
15. Long story short
Freepers love doing this stuff. The same sort of thing has been created for several other candidates. I have seen one for Sharpton and I think one for Dean. They are slimeballs, but then again, someone has gwbush.com and it isn't Bush.
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MODemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
18. Frenchie! Rove isn't good enough to share a headline with Dean
Why would you suspect Dean and not the other candidates? :crazy: :think:
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
19. whether it's from a Deanie or a Bushie, there motive is the same
to get Dean nominated
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Yeah..you think..
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gulliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
21. Don't advertise them.
Why are you sticking this booger on the bathroom wall?
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LittleDannySlowhorse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
22. OK, goddammit
I'm a Dean supporter. I am perfectly happy to have Clark in the race. Every other Dean supporter I know feels the same way.

I've seen some pretty unacceptable shit said by Dean supporters about Clark. I am not about to dispute that. However, the majority of us simply feel strongly about our candidate (as I'm assuming everyone else feels about theirs), have no problem voting for whoever the eventual Dem nominee is going to be, and most of all, drumroll please...

are NOT involved in any efforts to "sabotage" any other candidates.

OK? So stop comparing us to Karl Rove. That is simply sky-high bullshit and you know it.

Thank you and have a nice day.
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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
23. Don't you mean 'Freedomie4Clark"?
;-)
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incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
24. Well, they have a sense of humor anyways...
Whois? lookup:


Registrant:
My Sister Will Win in '04
69 125th Street
11th floor
New York, New York 10011
United States

Registered through: GoDaddy.com
Domain Name: WWWCLARK04.COM
Created on: 21-Sep-03
Expires on: 21-Sep-04
Last Updated on: 21-Sep-03

Secure the registration to this domain or any
other the instant it becomes available.
DomainAlert(TM) Pro services protect, inform and
keep you in the action, 24/7.
Visit http://www.godaddy.com for details.


Administrative Contact:
Rodham, Hugh hughr@velocitynyc.com
My Sister Will Win in '04
69 125th Street
11th floor
New York, New York 10011
United States
2124567123 Fax -- 2124567123
Technical Contact:
Rodham, Hugh hughr@velocitynyc.com
My Sister Will Win in '04
69 125th Street
11th floor
New York, New York 10011
United States
2124567123 Fax -- 2124567123

Domain servers in listed order:
PARK9.SECURESERVER.NET
PARK10.SECURESERVER.NET
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LTR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Yep
Freepers!

They're obsessed with the Clintons!

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AnnabelLee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
26. Locking
2. The subject line of a discussion thread and the entire text of the message which starts the thread may not include profanity, excessive capitalization, or excessive punctuation. Inflammatory rhetoric should also be avoided. Exceptions may be allowed for threads about our shared political opponents and/or policies which we generally oppose.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=463744

Thank you
AnnabelLee
DU Moderator
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WillyBrandt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
27. Why did a Dean supporter above agree with the website?
It's obviously a GOP hack job, from (1) the blindly stupidity running throughout it; (2) the use of Democratic instead of Democratic; and (3) the link to a Hillary hit page from it's host site velocitynyc.com.

But why did a Dean supporter above speak well of it? Why did any Democrat on here respond to it with anything but either silence or total negativity?

As a Clark supporter I am truly mystified how anti-Clark Democrats use RIGHT-WING sources against Clark? WHY DOES THIS HAPPEN?
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