Get on the stick people!!!!

Want to WIN in 2006 and 2008!!!???!!!!

The number one issue is not going to be healthcare, jobs, abortion, the enviroment, worker's rights, taxes, or the war.

The number one issue is going to be ILLEGAL Immigration.

I am hearing it from the CONS already that are running. Democrats have to no only start talking about but offering solutions. They need to start hitting back at the employers who hire Illegal Immigrants and offer solutions for removing the Illegals, strengthening the borders, and getting a handle on LEGAL immigration to enhance our knowledge base.

Seriously...Democrats have to be pushed to move on this issue NOW if they want to WIN!!!

but the Illegal Immigrant is going to be front and center for the Republicans.

Whoever gets there first...

Democrats need to get out there talking about it and not be blind sided. Republicans are already talking about it and making all other issues we hold dear (education for instance) as being negativelty affected by it.

They'll also make it into a national security issue just before election, once again trying to say Democrats are soft on national security.

If they want it to be "the big issue"?

Do we put a fucking boot up their ass and tell them in no uncertain terms that it's nobody else's god damn business if two gays or lesbians want to legally commit to a life together?

Because if that's how you want to handle the important issue of "gay marriage", I'm with you 100%.

I hear ya. BTW ... wanna drag Grover into a bathtub??? :evilgrin:

the bathtub filled with tar and feathers!!! :bounce: :party:

He has said the Republicans are going to "scapegoat immigrants" using this as a wedge issue just as they did gay marriage and abortion. I am pretty sure they are working on a plan.

so it's not just that they're 'working' on it. The plan is already in play.

Dems should focus on the employers who hire the illegals. A perfect example is that the corporations with contracts to rebuild the Gulf Coast are charging us taxpayers exorbitant amounts of money and yet paying illegal immigrants peanuts.

The Republicans should pay for this travesty!

like the whole concept of unrestrained world trade -- simply a way to lower wages, and in the process the standard of living in our country. We need to make employers pay for the use of illegal immigrant labor.

a price that makes them stop.

And, by the way, the issue has nothing to do with racism. It doesn't matter whether the illegals come from Europe, Pakistan, China or South America, it is unfair to U.S. workers. Also, although I love the people who come here as individuals, the flood of immigrants, the sheer number of them, the volume within a short period of time places a terrible strain on our schools, parks, health care system and housing resources. If we don't stop the flood, our basic services will simply break down. Somehow, the manicured lawns and the cheap babysitting and housecleaning out here in LA just don't pay for the cost of caring for the immigrants whose needs are tremendous in part because they are far from home, adrift from their social moorings and under a lot of stress.

All other things can be rolled into it. This has to be Topic A with national security, jobs, healthcare, education, etc. being the thing that is negatively pressured by it.

that we shouldn't even BE at war, and it was created by BushCo. Nothin' but the truth.

then the war won't be the issue.

cons for pretty much ignoring security at ports and borders since 9/11.

They've let us down. Democrats need a plan to strengthen these as well as to stop the demand (hiring Illegals) and having a plan to reduce or eliminate the drain on our resources from existing Illegal Immigrants.

I get so sick and tired of this TH brainwashing on illegals. THs heads NEVER go after the Corporations hiring illegally. Not a single expose on how the Incs ILLEGALLY hiring people is undermining our economy - not the illegals themselves.

How many US citizens would illegally work in Canada if they could get $20.00 and hour? (Pretending, of course, that average wage in Canada was $30.00 an hour.)

I do get tired of is endless tirade on illegals.

However, it's not just the Corporations. A big chunk of it is the small businesses. A Corporation may hire a few hundred illegals...but if 100,000 small business each hire 1 then they've out numbered the Corporations by a landslide. Many of these small businesses are looking at their competition...other small business who have hired an illegal. They know they're doing it, but in order to stay in business, their only choice is to also hire them (as they see it). If they had another choice (maybe call ICE, get a reward, and the competition gets jail time), then what might their business decisions be?

but still, you raise an important point.

LOL! LOU DOBBS, MISSING ON ARUBA. Faux news would be beside themselves.

:eyes:

folks! :rofl:

You know, the ones who are rebuilding.

and Lou Dobbs-aided pseudo-issue (like abortion and gay marriage have been previously). Not to mention that it lets the fascists control the agenda. The key for the Dems is to start talking about real issues and real change, not to play wimpy defense against GOP drivel.

Ignore it if you want. But, unless the Democrats start talking about it and dealing with it NOW...asta la vista!!

Kiss the White House good bye for 2008.

Yeah, all the way to India.

Sorry, I see this as a "please, tell me who to blame--- and who to hate" distraction issue.

but make not mistake, Republicans are going to be running on this.

If you want to win, push the Democrats to start talking about it.

"values" vote, straight to hell.

Why do you think Bush doesn't flog it?

Look at the numbers. Latinos are the fastest growing segment of voters. You don't win elections by telling people that their cousins in Mexico who are trying to cobble together a better life by crossing the border to work in a field in the Central Valley are a "national security risk". That may appeal to the minuteman crowd, but the minuteman vote is already heavily skewed towards the GOP. At best, they'll vote for some far right deal like the "American Independent Party". They sure as SHIT aren't going to vote Democratic--- no matter how much anti-immigrant red meat we might try to throw them.

Anyway, there's plenty of advice to the tune of "if you want to win, do this"... "if you want to win, jettison the gays".. "if you want to win, stop supporting a woman's right to choose".. "if you want to win, abandon your commitment to the separation of church and state"

Yeah, advice is like opinions, and you know which bodily orifice opinions are like. Everyone's got one. Frankly, I think those are all SERIOUSLY misguided approaches. Maybe with regards to illegal immigration the answer is to frame it in the context of corporate responsibility. However, a "we must keep these people out" approach isn't going to work somewhere like, California, where people know damn well that the illegal population is doing jobs that no one else will do, and keeping the state's economy moving to boot, even if no one wants to admit it.

So, you're entitled to your opinion.. and here's mine: If the Democrats want to win, what WE need to start doing is CLEARLY elucidating unwavering stances on things like Iraq, stop APOLOGIZING for being liberals who understand, for example, what the establishment clause of the 1st Amendment means-- and we can WIN ELECTIONS by appealing to millions of libertarian minded urban voters who are waiting for SOMEONE to take a clear stance on personal liberty issues.

And we don't have to demonize illegal immigrants to do it.

You're absolutely right, but I agree that the Dems nned a plan to get out in front of this kool-aid talking point.