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REALLY..talk about tin foil..with the National Security Letters going

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patdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-05 02:22 AM
Original message
REALLY..talk about tin foil..with the National Security Letters going
around...I was not able to sign on to the net using the normal functions. I was connected by none of my browsers .they all said "this page cannot be displayed"..I finally go on line using 'Web Ferret'...which is NOT a browser..but did take me to an open page..from which I got here...It MAY be nothing..but darlings...as little as I post...I can imagine how it will happen...

One poster cannot get on the web...then another..then another...but it will not be a ban of all posters from any site, just a erosion of our ability to even get on the web.

I was VERY scared..not for my safety, but that the fear we all have that we will no longer be able to communicate on the web could be one poster at a time...starting with the least missed?

If a National Security Letter can halt you and I from connecting to the web..we need to find alternatives..trust me...I never thought 'Web Ferret' was good for anything except looking up crap....but it now is my only connection to the web!

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obxhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-05 02:25 AM
Response to Original message
1. What's all this about the NSL?
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mestup Donating Member (756 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-05 02:25 AM
Response to Original message
2. That's alarming. I hope it's a glitch.
I'm old enough to really appreciate the value of the internet(s). I see so much grassroots organizing because of it.
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patdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-05 02:32 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. I hope it is also..but both my browsers just became non functional
truly...my main browser..and msn just kept saying 'this page cannot be displayed'..I re booted a couple of times..and thought...well there is something hung up somewhere, so i shut it all down...and rebooted...the same message. I was connected, but both my browsers were inoperative. I was beside myself..so i just TRIED the Web Ferrett...which I have not used for YEARS..and it gave me a website...which put me here...

I am NOT saying that MY browsers are denying me service...but I am wondering if that is the way it will happen.,.one person who cannot get online...an NO WAY of knowing why...then another..and another..how can we get together and say what is happening?
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mestup Donating Member (756 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-05 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. It's something we all need to watch out for.
I'd never thought about it before. But we should all be somewhat aware when our browsers won't "go" where we want them to. One person at a time is very much like the "first they came for the....."

Thanks for bringing this up.
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-05 02:32 AM
Response to Original message
3. This?
NATIONAL SECURITY LETTERS
Thursday, November 10, 2005

One more thing to fear from the Patriot Act is the use of a national security letter issued unilaterally by a FBI special-agent-in-charge from one of the more than 60 FBI field offices scattered throughout the country.

A national security letter, when presented to the recipient, demands that the institution provide all financial records and communications records for the person or people listed on the letter. Furthermore, the letter recipient is warned never to reveal or to disclose the existence of this letter or the person of interest to anyone, ever. More than 30,000 national security letters have already been issued and it is estimated that more than 100,000 people have been the intended targets of these letters. Both financial and communications records are very broadly defined. For example, financial records, in addition to the obvious banking, credit card and investment records, could also include such financial transactions as payment for any goods or services such as getting one’s car serviced at Jiffy Lube or a purchase at Sears using cash.

Broadly defined, communications records would include such things as the obvious telephone, cellphone, and Internet, but also such things as phone card, pager, fax and Blackberry usage. Together, communications records and financial records constitute the vast preponderance of information about how we live in this day and age.

So, by mapping all this out the government can collect a vast amount of information about a terrorist, or any innocent American citizen. And it doesn’t even have to be an American citizen; it can be anyone, anytime, anyplace. This very broad net has appeal for stopping terrorists, which is important, but it also has unfortunate consequences for the civil liberties of all non-terrorists, which is most of us.
http://www.freemarketnews.com/Analysis/94/2872/2005-11-10.asp?wid=94&nid=2872



It's used to collect information and has nothing to do with preventing people from communicating.

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patdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-05 02:39 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. YES...that's it...and it CAN be used against the opposition party
or people who oppose the people in power..with NO OVERSIGHT...I was very afraid that that was why I could not access the web tonight...there is no apparent reason for what happened to me...I have no idea why it happened...and I fell VERY lucky that I had 'web ferret'...cause I had NO OTHER browsers except my main browser..peopelpc..and msn...both failed!...I PRAY IT IS A GLICH!
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-05 02:49 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Uh, let me ask
somebody who might know what the problem is.

Why would you use those browsers?
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patdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-05 02:58 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. well, one i pay for..the other is available..and i basically pay to chat
and tought the NSL might not specifically imply communications if a company is compelled to turn over records..the fear that the person of whom those records were sought was somehow criminal..or at worst a terroist..you do not think the host would shut down their ability to access the web??
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-05 03:06 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. I think you'd hear a knock on your door
if they thought they had something on you.

If they were collecting data, they'd want you to keep communicating.

I doubt they'd go through a browser, though.

If your service provider cut you off, you wouldn't have been able to access the internet at all.
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salvorhardin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-05 03:12 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. If a federal agency thought they had the goods on you
Edited on Sun Nov-13-05 03:13 AM by salvorhardin
They would not prevent you from accessing the internet or the web. They'd allow you to continue to use the internet and the web without your knowing so that they could monitor your communications in the hope that you will lead them to others.

If your communications are sensitive enough where this might be a concern I'd suggest learning how to use encryption or using a service that provides encryption for free like Hushmail.
http://www.hushmail.com
http://www.eff.org/Privacy/Crypto/emailencryption
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salvorhardin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-05 03:07 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. I agree with BMUS
Edited on Sun Nov-13-05 03:09 AM by salvorhardin
Why would you be using those browsers? I'm not sure about peoplepc but it's likely an older, unsecurity patched and rebranded version of Internet Explorer. MSN is a group of web services from Microsoft and as far as I know has not released a stand alone browser -- Microsoft produces Internet Explorer.

It sounds like what happened is that you picked up a nasty piece of spyware that has taken over Internet Explorer.

I would really encourage you to download and install either Firefox or Opera. I'm a Firefox fan and BMUS is an Opera fan but both of these browsers are light years ahead of Internet Explorer.

I'd recommend the 4.5RC2 version of Firefox, which while a Release Candidate (post beta, but pre release) is 100% stable and includes Firefox's new autoupdater feature which will help insure that your browser stays up to date with all the latest security patches.
http://download.mozilla.org/?product=firefox-1.5rc2&os=win&lang=en-US

Opera recently became free (no ads, no licensing fees) and is a great browser too.
http://opera.com/download/get.pl?id=27382

Beyond that, rest assured that if the FBI wanted your internet connection cut they would simply have your service terminated at the ISP. It's likely just some nastyware and after you get a real web browser installed, I'd download and run SpyBot S&D as well as AVG Free Antivirus.
http://www.safer-networking.org/en/download
http://free.grisoft.com/doc/2/lng/us/tpl/v5

Finally, if you're running Norton, uninstall it. It's a piece of bloated, resource gobbling junk.
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-05 03:11 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Thanks.
Edited on Sun Nov-13-05 03:11 AM by beam me up scottie
You recommend both Spybot and AVG?

I used to use SB but now only have AVG.
And Zone Alarm, of course.
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salvorhardin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-05 03:16 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Well, it sounds like she has gotten some kind of nastyware
Edited on Sun Nov-13-05 03:57 AM by salvorhardin
And Spybot S&D should help her get rid of it. I never get infected so I don't have Spybot on my system. AVG is concerned with viruses and doesn't scan for spyware (last I knew anyway).

Microsoft AntiSpyware is really good (it should be, they paid enough for Giant Software which wrote the program) but you need to allow Microsoft to install their little DirectX script to verify that you're running a legit copy of Windows. That shouldn't dissuade you from using it, but it is something to be aware of.
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patdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-05 03:17 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. I ran both my spyware programs..one I pay for ..one is free...and
I deleted ALL temp files..and files created by being online...it could be a virus..which is still there...cause as far as I know..i cannot stil sign on using a 'normal web browser'...and the finer point is...that when the destruction of the web comes is most likely will come the way I experienced it. TRUST me..if had not had 'web ferret'.. you and I would not be having this discussion right now. It it will be really about weeding out people one by one and not a mass roundup. Though what happened to me may be a glich...I think that if we all lose communications..it will be one poster at a time.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-05 03:28 AM
Response to Original message
15. Funny you should say that
I noticed some odd things about the DU homepage this morning.
Some of the icons for the various services or articles were replaced by... porn icons.

I did several complete sweeps with antivirus and Ad-Aware but found nothing wrong with my system.

I purged my cache and I was off again.

Weird.
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