Can we have it both ways? If the war in Iraq incites terror...

which I believe it does, why do so many here question the guilt of the perpetrators of terror in so many instances? I admit to being suspicious of events leading up to 9/ll, and questioning what our own government knew, and the timing and beneficiaries of that tragedy. But why is it seen here by so many as unlikely, if not impossible, for the Iraqi woman in Jordan to have been part of a plan to blow up a wedding, killing as many innocents as she could?

I don't think we can deny that terror, and terrorists, exist, from the London and Madrid Undergrounds, to Bali, to the Middle East, and so on. Are all these attacks set in motion, or perpetrated by the U.S. and/or our allies, or by someone other than those local authorities identify? If so, then the Iraq war has not incited any of those who have suffered in Iraq, or been radicalized by the invasion of a Muslim land in a war of choice, to terror.

There's no doubt that the Bush administration has used the tragedy of 9/11 for its own political purposes, and has manipulated our fear of terrorism for its own aims, ramping it up as needed. (And I think their incompetence in all areas includes leaving big gaps in protecting us from terrorism in our own country.) But I believe if we go a step further, and discount the threat of terror, the reality of terror, we fool ourselves, and look foolish to others.

or black hats: evil is as evil does, by their works they shall be known.

... but, rather, about this television confession having the strong appearance of propaganda for mass consumption.

It's not a denial of terror. It's skepticism about the evidence presented.

Cheers.

I don't discount that acts of terror do take place. And I know terrorists exist.

I know and knew well before September 11, 2001 that I could die in an act of terror - even on American soil. Sure the odds were low but they still existed. But then I travel and reside at a traditional target for terrorists- so maybe my odds are a little higher than most.

I managed to live my life anyway - without fear. Still do.

I was never one of those "who never imagined" - I never thought America was protected from such attacks (both "foreign" and domestic) and I still don't think America is protected. I will never understand why anyone would think America was protected against terror attacks(both foreign and domestic). Such thinking seems so insulated and narrow in scope....or a sign of deep denial, in my opinion.


September 11 didn't change me. It was a tragedy of epic proportions - but it was how the US government reacted (used) to that tragedy that caused the greater damage. Talk about dishonoring the dead- Look how America has dishonored all those that died that day - with an illegal invasion,with torture,with ghost detainees and secret prisons....anyone really think the dead of 911 would be happy to know that?

Did Bush create every terrorists alive today? No

But he has created many through his actions...so Bush has caused an existing problem to be much worse.

And America's chosen method to deal with terrorism is escalating an already bad situation and it is creating even more terrorists.

Look at the people of NOLA were treated...America does the same to poor people in other countries - we suppport and promote agendas that harm the poor in other countries. Well, a person can only take so much before they fight back....and maybe their way of fighting back is scary and maybe it is wrong (as in 2 wrongs don't make a right) - but what choice do they have when they have no choice at all?

When you're fighting back, that doesn't make you a terrorist. You're just fighting back the only way available to you. If you're powerless, violence is about your only option.

Now, do I think actual terrorists jump on the bandwagon of a cause that fits their agenda? Yes, I do. And the very same people harmed by America's policies are now being harmed by yet another group.

America just lumps them all together because it's easier to label them all terrorists than it is to address the very real issues and concerns of American foreign policy....label them all terrorists and you can kill them with impunity - and no one cares cause well...they're terorists.

Yes, there were many in the Arab/Muslim world who hated the U.S., before Chimpy came to power.

I'm sure many of them were just like our own extremists: reckless, not all that bright, and desperate.

Opportunists know that the best way to defeat extremists is to let them hang themselves. That's where agents provocateur come in. What you do is, you infiltrate the extremists. You install your agent and let him become powerful within the group of extremists. Your agent watches and waits till the extremists move towards some horrific, unforgiveable, brutal act. If they don't move fast enough, or if they begin to fail, your agent gives them a push.

With the help of the agent provocateur, some horrible murder/act of terror/etc. is accomplished.

The world turns in anger on the extremist group. If you (the opportunist group which wanted to destroy the extremist group) are lucky, the world will exterminate the extremists. Voila! Your enemies have been gotten rid of, and you are standing there looking very innocent.

Now, given that there are extremists in the world who hate Americans, shouldn't we be looking for an effective way to deal with them? Maybe we should start by minding our own business, instead of trying to reshape the Middle East. It's very unpopular to say it, but our close association with Israel is the number one thing that makes them hate us. Now, just because we're close with Israel, and Arabs hate us for that, does that mean we should cut Israel loose? That would be really disloyal to a friend, and it's despicable to be that way, isn't it?

It is... unless one's friend is actually, deliberately, undercutting one. I think Israel has indeed screwed us behind our backs at times. (Or, for example, is Jonathan Pollard just in jail for jaywalking or something? If an Arab had spied on us, wouldn't he be at Guantanamo, with no communication with the outside world? Whereas, Pollard has high-level diplomats and many others constantly pleading publicly for his release.)

There was Arab terrorism before we invaded Iraq. But invading Iraq aggravated the problem. And another big problem is, we don't KNOW who does these terrorist acts, a lot of the time. I think some such acts are just hung on Arabs as the most likely suspects. UNTIL WE FIND OUT FOR CERTAIN WHO DOES EACH TERRORIST ACT, it is foolish to worry about "terrorism" because we don't have a clue what we are worrying about. Let's find out for certain who's doing it (I'm sure it's more than one entity) before we all cower in fear of "jihadists" or whatever.

Boy Who Cried Wolf Story Writ Large.

Keep in mind, in the original, there was a wolf.

Nothing this administration says is credible anymore. That makes the American public more vulnerable than ever, since there is no trust anymore and can never be any trust again with this president or his evil and corrupt henchmen. Even were they to tell the truth regarding a terrorist plot, no one would believe them, and why should they, since Bush ALWAYS LIES.

This is why Bush and all of his administration cronies must be removed.

"Nothing this administration says is credible anymore." They lost all credibility when the Supreme Court appointed bush**.

I never believed in Bush. I couldn't believe it when this country meekly accepted his installment into office the first time and I doubly couldn't believe it when his utter incompetence, stupidity and cowardice at the very least (if he or his extremist right wing buddies didn't engineer the whole thing) allowed the 9/11 attack.

So just to be completely candid, he never had any credibility with me.

Still, there is the wingnut 30% fringe who believes in him no matter what he does.

However, among people not of the lunatic fringe, it's not even controversial anymore that Bush uses the levers of power to incite baseless fears of terrorism to gain some political advantage for himself - even Republican Tom Ridge in so many words accused him of it - after he was safely out of power of course.

My point is, people want to impeach Bush based on lying about the facts and rationale for going to war with Iraq, mostly.

What about, in addition, impeaching him on rendering the government's credibility inert on warning the populace of any genuine threat, should it appear?

"What about, in addition, to impeaching him on rendering the government's crediblity inert on warning the populace of any genuine threat, should it appear?" I think the PDB of Sept. 6th, 2001 covers that. :shrug:

I'm still trying to figure this site out. Thanks for the patience ;)

I still think that misusing the so-called "terror alert" system that was created AFTER Sept. 11th for political gamesmanship is definitely in the "high-crimes and misdemeanors" category.

If there is ever another "terrorist" attack in the U.S. that turns out to be real, but ignored because Bush uses the system as an approval-points vending machine, the Republicans will attempt to blame this on the such idiocies as "Democrats undermining the President's credibility".

Yes, it's total chutzpah, but that is what they will try to say.

I wish the Democrats would make it loud and clear to the mealy-mouthed Washington punditry that deciding when to believe Bush and when not to believe him is not the responsibility of others; that the burden is on the Bush administration to tell the truth and nothing but the truth (even if at times the "whole truth" remains unspoken) about so-called "specific, credible threats of terrorism" and it's too important for him to play games with - ever.

Because even though you're right regarding everything you say about Bush's lack of legitimacy and lack of credibility with people like you and me, this fundamentally misses my point. Bush is currently getting away with this game where he gets to make political hay (incredibly) on whether or not people believe him in specific instances.

Today, it's other people's fault that they believed in him. Democrats are somehow to blame because they believed the phony intel on Iraq.

Tomorrow, it will be other people's fault that they did not. I'm too cynical to not believe he won't get away with that, at least in part.

We shouldn't have to fight that air/media war, but we do.

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

Thanks a lot for the warm welcome! My buddy in NJ recommended me to DU after I spent one too many times critiquing AmericaBlog on the phone with him. So now I visit both, plus DailyKos et. al. Am I an insane political junkie or what?

He said that the belief is they hate all Muslims.
Terrorism is the response of some the Islamic extremists.
Martyrdom is something I can't relate to, but it sends metaphorical messages to the rest of the Islamic extremists to act, and especially to recruit.