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Onlooker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 08:46 AM
Original message
What did Jesus say?
For those pro-war righties who trumpet Jesus, what's the best response? Did Jesus in his own words advocate war, killing, bigotry, greed, etc.? Are there a few words by Jesus that clearly demonstrate he was a liberal? Did he say a few things that are worth quoting just to antagonize the Jesus-as-warrior righties? Thanks.
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achtung_circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
1. One word, BEATITUDES!!!
The text of St. Matthew runs as follows:

* Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Verse 3)
* Blessed are the meek: for they shall posses the land. (Verse 4)
* Blessed are they who mourn: for they shall be comforted. (Verse 5)
* Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill. (Verse 6)
* Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. (Verse 7)
* Blessed are the clean of heart: for they shall see God. (Verse 8)
* Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. (Verse 9)
* Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Verse 10)
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MemphisTiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
2. There are things on both sides
Jesus went into the temple where the money changers were turning over tables to run them out of there. This would typically go against the idea that he is a pacifist. He also instruced his disciples to sell their cloak to buy two swords. The weren't for snakes. Yet, he also talked about turning the other cheek in personal life. It can be easily argued from both sides.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. the moneychangers incident is always taken out of context
I've heard fundies use that one incident to explain why it is ok to kill anyone who doesn't agree with them. In actuality, all Jesus did was drive out the money lenders-as I've read it, he didn't kill or even hurt them. And the reason he did it was because it was people getting rich on religion-hmmmm, wonder if Robertson et al have read this passage?
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mark11727 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. I always thought it was because they were doing business in a temple...
...when the temples were SUPPOSED to be used for PRAYIN'!
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. That's why Jesus drove them out
nothing should get in between you and God.
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triguy46 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. This is the account that the pro violence christians always
bring up to show that Jesus was a manly man, a mean guy, a tough guy. The only example of such anger. I think it is a stretch to take Jesus removing the money changers from the temple to a messianic approval for war.

The entire new tesetament is filled with Jesus acting just the opposite. Certainly the beatitudes are a good place to start, hard to beat "the meek shall inherit." But let me advise you, that if you aren't familiar with scripture, if you don't know the evangelical lingo, you're fighting a losing battle. That said, it doesn't take a divinity degree to counter this argument. You do not have to be as well prepared for the christian warrior guys as you have to be for mormons.
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MemphisTiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. Arguing with a fundie is a losing battle...
They will have their preselected passages and they believe what they believe. You can't argue with them. Most are satisfied with ignorant bliss. This is why I stay away from scriptural arguments with fundies. Most have a lifetime of brainwashing, how do you compete?
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triguy46 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. I agree. I don't bother with it. I think the technical term for
selectively choosing snippets of scripture is "proof texting."
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bunkerbuster1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. But it speaks volumes that the one thing that DID make Him lose it
was seeing people desecrating the temple with filthy lucre.

And anyway, He didn't lose it at all, he merely cracked a whip and drove out some livestock. And wackiness ensued.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #2
11. Turning the cheek may have been an empowerment move, not a
pacificism one.

Jesus never raised an army despite telling people to buy swords for defending themselves. And he never defended Himself, despite what was done to Him. And as for the turning over the tables in the temple court, I don't believe anyone was actually hurt during that incident.

So for myself I interpret Him and His actions as leaning toward peace and not war.

Big surprise there, eh? :P
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obreaslan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #2
14. So Jesus was a flip-flopper????
Or was it a Sandal-Shifter back then?

:evilgrin:


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mikelewis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
20. Turning the other cheek was considered an act of defiance...
In the time of Jesus, when you struck a citizen, you used your right hand because the left hand was unclean. Their lack of toilet paper should give you a good idea where that comes from. When a citizen was to strike a slave, however, he would strike the slave with his left hand. Turning the other cheek means that the slave should present his other cheek for the master to strike with his right hand and force the master to treat the slave as an equal even when he is hurting him. It's an act of civil disobedience not an act of meekness.
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bunkerbuster1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
21. Yeah, but the "two swords" story is also... drum roll please...
pro-gun control.

"We have two swords"
"That is enough."

see! See! what would Jesus do? He'd make sure that the streets weren't flooded with handguns, is what He'd do!

It really, really pisses off Fundies when you point that out.
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MemphisTiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. LOL, I have to try that one
intersting perspective
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
3. Blessed are the peacemakers
Edited on Wed Nov-16-05 08:52 AM by ayeshahaqqiqa
Whatsoever you do unto the least of these, you do unto me.

There's a couple off the top of my head.
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soothsayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
5. I sooo prefer the Aramaic translations of the beatitudes--looky
Aramaic scholar, Neil Douglas-Klotz, reveals that religious discord between the three major religions of Christianity, Islam, and Judaism is just a translation error. The richly symbolic poetic language of Aramaic is the vernacular that Jesus would have spoken. And the worst language into which to translate it would be Greek.

Sample, "Blessed are the meek," in Aramaic would have been more like, "Blessed are those who soften rigidity within their hearts for they shall have all the power of nature." "Evil," is simply "unripe." "Repent," would have been the counsel to "return to harmonious timing." No talk of Lord, Kingdom, etc. Creation myths are practices of renewal. And Jesus never spoke of Armageddon and other such infantile fixations on catastrophic endings.

(see Sept 25 radio show for link to more info on that dude http://www.spiritualintrigue.com/catalog2003.htm)
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #5
24. Neil Douglas-Klotz is great!
He's a Sufi brother and co-founder of the International Center for the Dances of Universal Peace. I have danced the Lord's Prayer and read his book "Desert Wisdom" as well as "Prayers of the Cosmos". Douglas-Klotz has said if people only knew that the Aramaic name for "God" is "Allaha", it would open so many minds.

I hope you have the good fortune to meet him sometime. If you do, please give him my salaams.
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achtung_circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
6. Matthew 25
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. If you read on further, Jesus condemns his "false followers" for NOT
doing these things to "the least of these my brethren."

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achtung_circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. I like Matthew
but I cut the post down to a managable size.
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I was just pointing out a part of MT that fundies tend to overlook
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
9. A new idea? any good?
Jesus was on powerful dude. GOD was on his side.

Jesus could have ended the Roman occupation with the sweep of his hand, right?

Jesus could have slain all the enemies with a wink of an eye.

Instead, Jesus said: "Love thine enemies."

That's pretty cool. The most powerful human to ever live, and what's he do? Goes around healing the sick and preaching - Love thine enemies. I wish I could be like that.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
10. His most profound, and often denied, or ignored words speak
so simply that people refuse to 'see' (embrace) the FACT that He would never condone war, killing, bigotry, greed etc.

""Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?" Jesus said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets."

Matthew 22.36-40

As far as who our 'neighbors' are- they those who we least respect, as Jesus spoke of in the Parable of the Good Samaritan.

So- for anyone to claim to love Jesus- and follow him, while hating others- desiring to kill, defame, or invoke 'harm' on others- they are in FACT desiring that fate for THEMSELF-

As for the use of the "Moneychangers"- no person was hurt, killed, or attacked- the 'WORK' being done 'in the name of God'- by people who profited off the guilt, and insecurity of others, selling sacrifices to others while growing fat themselves infuriated Jesus- because they were doing exactly what Jesus preached, lived, and taught against-

A SIMPLE reply? If you are to love others as you love yourself, you would want hell to be empty and heaven to be full. Because, to honestly live this truth, unless you hate yourself, truly, deep down, you would never want anyone to suffer anything you wouldn't want to endure yourself.

Sounds crazy- but if put into practice, there would indeed be heaven- here on earth, right now- for everyone.

Ask those who are so pro-war, or those who are so quick to point out the 'sin' in the world today exactly what 'sin' Judas was guilty of? Where does their concept of 'obeying the authorities' have a clause for 'except when to do so would be betraying Jesus'- ? The only 'sin' Judas could be found guilty of, was his suicide- and even that is suspect-

Judas obeyed 'the government'- Just like all the "right wing religious" tell everyone else to do-


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never cry wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
18. A long reply
I put this together for an email for a friend and kept it so I could cut n paste...

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Verse 3)
Blessed are the meek: for they shall posses the land. (Verse 4)
Blessed are they who mourn: for they shall be comforted. (Verse 5)
Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill. (Verse 6)
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. (Verse 7)
Blessed are the clean of heart: for they shall see God. (Verse 8)
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. (Verse 9)
Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Verse 10)


The "right" chokes on the beatitudes

--------------------
If the right-wingers really studied the matter, they'd find they have more in common with Muhammad than with Jesus. Muhammad was a merchant, a businessman and entrepreneur - a capitalist. Before Jesus walked off his job, he was a carpenter, a common laborer - and with his talk of brotherhood, no doubt would have been a union man.

He hung out with the dregs of society: the poor, prostitutes, tax collectors, and finally thieves. Not exactly the kind of person to whom you would entrust your most precious and eternal possession: your stock portfolio.

Jesus revealed his anti-business agenda as soon as he threw the money-changers out of the temple. To the orthodox for whom taxation is government organized theft, Jesus' clear advocacy of paying taxes by "rendering unto Caesar" is a complete abomination. Scholars are still divided over whether the raising of Lazarus was to escape the death tax or an intent to pay it twice.

--------------------

Jesus mollycoddled the poor and went out of his way to condemn the rich. His warning that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a wealthy man to get into heaven was typical socialist blather. The affluent have had to devote themselves to breeding smaller camels and building larger needles ever since.

------------------
Jesus' purpose in life was to do the will of His heavenly Father. Wherever He went, He brought goodness. He never hurt or injured anyone, although He did get angry at others who did wrong. He called self-righteous church-going people vipers and once turned over tables in the temple where money-changers were taking advantage of the people.

Jesus was friends with the outcast of society—sinners. He reached out to the publicans, thieves, prostitutes. He never scorned anyone. He knew what was in the heart of a man (or woman). Just because they were religious did not mean that they knew God.

----------------------

Jesus challenged the Pharisees’ purity system by almost everything he did. It’s no coincidence that there are so many stories about Jesus getting into the everyday dirt and grit of life. Touching lepers, being touched by a hemorrhaging woman. Forgiving an adulteress. Going into an unclean graveyard to cast out demons and send them into a herd of unclean pigs. Eating with outcasts like tax collectors and prostitutes, and drunkards — all of those people at the very bottom of the Who’s Who of the Impure.

So Jesus came to confront the heart of this system — the temple — by driving out the money-changers and the sacrificial animal dealers; by exposing the profits and the kickbacks that the temple elite received “under the table” when he said that the temple authorities had turned his Father’s house into a “den of robbers,” as it’s recorded in Matthew, Mark and Luke.

----------------------

"Jesus replied: 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments'" (Matthew 22:37-40, emphasis mine).

"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another" (John 13:34-35).

The counterfeit Christ and his followers have long lists of "do's and don't's" that are preached as "Gospel." And everyone who doesn't subscribe to their legalistic list are condemned. We see them protesting with signs that read "God hates fags," "God hates baby-killers," and "God hates !"

But the genuine Jesus has just two laws: love God and love people. True followers of Jesus may not agree with the lifestyles and opinions of everyone (in fact, they shouldn't), but they will be the first to show compassion to those they disagree with. That's why Jesus hung out with drunks, prostitutes, "tax collectors," and "sinners." He loved people. He didn't love all their actions--and didn't join them in all their behaviors--but He showed them that he loved them. True followers of Jesus are not preaching against people with addictions; they are volunteering at rehabilitation programs at local shelters. They're not bombing abortion clinics; they're working in the pro-life Crisis Pregnancy Centers.

--------------------------

Jesus also had withering words for the wealthy who oppressed--or simply ignored --the poor.

"Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God. But woe to you who are rich, for you have already received your comfort" (Luke 6:20, 24).

Genuine followers of Jesus have a sense of joy and satisfaction in who they are--at whatever "level" on the social or ecclesiastical ladder they may find themselves.

Jesus said, "I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete" (John 15:11).

----------------------------

5. His earthly father was a carpenter, a humble hewer of wood with whom He lived and laboured, conforming to our human ways of life, custom, language and living that He might understand and love us better and communicate with us on the lowly level of our own limited human understanding!--He learned to LOVE Mankind. He saw their suffering and had great compassion on them, longing to not only heal their sick and broken bodies, but also to save their immortal spirits!

6. When the time came and He began his life's work, He went about everywhere doing good.--Helping people, loving children, healing heartaches, strengthening tired bodies, saving whom He could. He not PREACHED His message, but He LIVED it amongst us. He not only ministered to their spiritual needs, but He spent a great deal of time ministering to their physical and material needs, miraculously healing them when they were sick, feeding them when they were hungry and sharing His life and His Love!

7. He was so simple and His religion was so simple that He said you must become as a little CHILD to receive it! He didn't preach Temple worship, He didn't preach going to synagogue nor going to church, He didn't preach any complicated ceremonies or difficult rules.--All he did was preach LOVE and show Love, as He strove to lead God's children into the True Kingdom of God, whose only laws are to "love the Lord with all thy heart" and "love thy neighbour as thyself".

8. He had very little to do with the high-fallutin', rich-robed, churchy scribes, pharisees and hypocrites--the religious leaders of that day--except when they insisted on annoying Him with their critical questions. Then He would sock it to them, publicly exposing them as the "blind leaders of the blind" that they were, even telling them that they were like white-washed SEPULCHRES, which indeed appear beautiful, clean and holy on the OUTSIDE, but WITHIN are full of rottenness, corruption and stinking dead men's bones!

9. He was not a mere religious reformer, He was a REVOLUTIONARY! He refused to compromise with the false religious system, but rather worked totally OUTSIDE of it, reaching and sharing His Love with the poor and common folk who had long ago abandoned and been abandoned by organised religion. He never went into any bar with whip in hand, breaking up the bottles and throwing out the bartender. Nor did He ever enter any brothel, beating up the poor girls, overturning their beds and throwing the men out the window.--But He DID make a whip, go into their big beautiful religious Temple, overturn the tables, spill out the money and drive the money-mad money-changers out of the church, condemning them for turning what was supposed to be a house of prayer into a den of thieves!

10. He made Himself of no reputation, and was a companion of drunks and prostitutes, publicans and sinners, the outcasts and downtrodden of society. He even told them that they would enter the Kingdom of Heaven before the so-called "good" people, the self-righteous and religious leaders who re jected Him and His simple Message of Love. The power of His Love and of His appeal was so great and gave such great faith to the sincere truth-seekers that they didn't hesitate to drop everything they had and forsake all immediately to become His full-time followers!

----------------------------

From Matthew 25:

31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are
blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for
you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are
cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to
eternal life."

------------------------------------------------------------

Ruth went to her mail box and there was only one letter. She picked
it up and looked at it before opening, but then she looked at the
envelope again.
There was no stamp, no postmark, only her name and address.
She read the letter:

Dear Ruth:

I`m going to be in your neighborhood Saturday afternoon
and I'd like to stop by for a visit.

Love Always, Jesus

Her hands were shaking as she placed the letter on the
table. "Why would the Lord want to visit me? I'm nobody special. I don't have anything to offer."
With that thought, Ruth remembered her empty kitchen cabinets.
"Oh my goodness, I really don't have anything to offer. I'll have
to run down to the store and buy something for dinner." She reached for her purse and counted out its contents. Five dollars and forty cents. "Well, I can get some bread and cold cuts, at least."
She threw on her coat and hurried out the door.

A loaf of French bread, a half-pound of sliced turkey,
and a carton of milk...leaving Ruth with grand total twelve cents to last her until Monday. Nonetheless, she felt good as she headed home, her meager offerings tucked under her arm.

"Hey lady, can you help us, lady?"
Ruth had been so absorbed in her dinner plans, she hadn't even
noticed two figures huddled in the alleyway. A man and a woman,
both of them dressed in little more than rags

"Look lady, I ain't got a job, ya know, and my wife and I have
been living out here on the street, and, well, now it's getting cold
and we're getting kinda hungry and, well, if you could help us. Lady,
we'd really appreciate it."

Ruth looked at them both. They were dirty, they smelled bad and frankly, she was certain that they could get some kind of work if they really wanted to.

"Sir, I'd like to help you, but I'm a poor woman myself. All I have
is a few cold cuts and some bread, and I'm having an important guest
for dinner tonight and I was planning on serving that to Him."

"Yeah, well, okay lady, I understand. Thanks anyway."

The man put his arm around the woman's shoulders, turned
and headed back into the alley.

As she watched them leave, Ruth felt a familiar twinge in her heart.

"Sir, wait!" The couple stopped and turned as she ran down the alley after them. "Look, why don't you take this food. I'll figure out
something else to serve my guest." She handed the man her grocery bag.

"Thank you lady. Thank you very much!"

"Yes, thank you!" It was the man's wife, and Ruth could see now that she was shivering. "You know, I've got another coat at home. Here,
why don't you take this one." Ruth unbuttoned her jacket and slipped
it over the woman's shoulders. Then smiling, she turned and walked
back to the street...without her coat and with nothing to serve her
guest.

"Thank you lady!"

"Thank you very much!"

Ruth was chilled by the time she reached her front door, and worried too. The Lord was coming to visit and she didn't have anything to
offer Him. She fumbled through her purse for the door key. But as
she did, she noticed another envelope in her mailbox.

"That's odd. The mailman doesn't usually come twice in one day."
She took the envelope out of the box and opened it.

Dear Ruth:

It was so good to see you again. Thank you for the lovely meal. And thank you, too, for the beautiful coat.

Love Always Jesus

The air was still cold, but even without her coat, Ruth no longer
noticed.

-----------------------

Matthew 23
Seven Woes
1Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 3So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
5"Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them 'Rabbi.'

8"But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. 9And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10Nor are you to be called 'teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ. 11The greatest among you will be your servant. 12For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

13"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.

15"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.

16"Woe to you, blind guides! You say, 'If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.' 17You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? 18You also say, 'If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.' 19You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. 22And he who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it.

23"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

25"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

27"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. 28In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

29"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30And you say, 'If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.' 31So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!

33"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.

37"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. 38Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'"
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #18
27. thank you for your long but inspiring post
One thing you might not know about the Beloved Prophet: he was an orphan , and worked for a rich widow (Kadijah), investing her money in the trade of a merchant. He had a reputation for fairness and mediating in disputes. He eventually married Kadijah, and began going to a cave to meditate. It was here that the angel Jabril (Gabriel) told him to recite. Mohammed never learned to read and write, but recited the verses of the Qur'an to his companions, who wrote them down. He was always kind to the less fortunate, and followed the words of God.

Here's a Sufi story that is similar to the story of Ruth. I think it shows that the Teachings are the Teachings are the Teachings.

A Sufi sheik (spiritual leader) once had a dream. It was just after Pilgrimage, and God came to tell the sheik that one man, Abdullah bin Ahdam, had made the perfect pilgrimage, and because of that, all pilgrims were blessed. When the sheik woke up, he was determined to find this man to find out more about him. He went to a nearby town and found that Abdullah was a well-to-do merchant. He knocked at the door, and of course was invited in for tea and dates. He finally got the conversation turned to Pilgrimage.

"And how was your Pilgrimage this year?" the sheik asked.

Abdullah looked suprised. "I didn't go on Pilgrimage this year; I had gone before, so I had made my obligation. I was going to go, but then I found out that one of my neighbors had lost all his funds and his family was destitute. So I gave the money I had saved for Pilgrimage to him; I didn't go to Mecca this year."

The Perfect Pilgrimage. :)
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
25. "Give Oral Roberts a million dollars or I'll take his life." - n/t
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elperromagico Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
26. Christianity to the far-right seems to mean that
anything is Christlike if you mention Jesus while doing it.
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