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Poll: Yes or No---is Torturing Detainees EVER Justifiable?

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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 10:47 AM
Original message
Poll question: Poll: Yes or No---is Torturing Detainees EVER Justifiable?
Edited on Wed Nov-16-05 10:48 AM by mopaul
no bloviating, just yes or no please.
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
1. never-- not under the most egregious circumstances....
Our barbarism justifies their resistance and continued hostility. It only escalates the cycle of violence.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. How can this even be a debate in this country??
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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. no shit
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durrrty libby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. I agree
It is despicable that we are even having this discussion. This administration is hell-bent on a mission to drag this country into a very dark place, and on so many levels.

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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
31. I also agree.
Can't believe this question is even being asked.

Next up: "Eye-gouging: Is it torture if it's only one eye?"
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
36. Hell, there are rightwing assholes on DU who support torture.
So there's your answer!

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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
2. Whoever posts the first 'yes'
I wanna know WTF you're coming from.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
23. It's probably Alan Dershowitz using his latest screename. (NT)
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. It's some visiting freep with no argument
post and run. :cry:
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PDJane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
4. There are things that
civilized nations simply don't do. Torture is one; genocide is another. Right now, I believe the US is guilty of both abominations.
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
6. NO! NEVER!!! And Buck Fush and the ass he rode in on.
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Guy Whitey Corngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
7. Hey, you've all been told a thousand times already WE DON'T TORTURE.
Except when we really really need to.
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Tyler Durden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
8. And it doesn't ever work either.
Try looking over some of the writings from the Inquisition: according to those torture-obtained confessions, Satan was scoring with every female Jew or Anabaptist in Spain.
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expatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
9. even with everythng else put aside, it provides you very bad intelligence
between the torturees who really don't know anything but make up answeres to avoid torture and the truly bad guys who will endure excruciating pain only to "break" and give you purposefully bad information just to lead you down the wrong path - it is a very bad intelligence gathering technique. And then add on top of that all the other things that are very, very, wrong with it.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
10. doesn't work-and makes the victim a hero
among the people who are against the torturers. It also helps the people against the torturers to convince their followers and new recruits that the torturers are people to be defeated.
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
12. history will record this question as proof of what an abomination shrub is
years from now, people will look back at bush 41 and say that was when we asked, 'how do we spend the peace dividend?'
years from now, people will look back at clinton and say that was when we asked, 'how do we spend the surplus?'
years from now, people will look back at shrub and say that was when we asked, 'when can we torture?'


it is absolutely unbelievable that we're even asking this question. this is the question asked by the bouncer at the door to civilization to see if you're a member or not!
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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. it IS a bizarre question
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kurth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. Bush is the American Caligula
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GoneOffShore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
14. Never, NEVER, NEVER
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kurth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
15. Israel FORBIDS torture
Israel, which is more vulnerable to terrorism than any other country, FORBIDS torture.

Case closed.
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bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. ...
From 1998:

"In fact the draft GSS law itself would violate the Convention in various ways, for example, by limiting criminal liability for acts of torture and ill-treatment perpetrated by GSS agents," Amnesty International said.

"Israel is the only country on earth where torture and ill-treatment are legally sanctioned. The Committee must send a clear message that such practices are a flagrant violation of the Convention and their continued use will not be tolerated."

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGMDE150311998?open&of=ENG-ISR

......

Israel admits torture

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/637293.stm
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #15
37. You're kidding, right?
I mean, it's a great point - unfortunately, it's not true with regards to Israel.

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bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
16. BushCo seems to be creating violent people on purpose...
Maybe because of their own shame? :shrug:

Males are particularly socialized to cover over feelings of shame: the sense of being weak, powerless, helpless, impotent, or incompetent. Rather than experience these painful feelings, men usually go blank or get enraged. Hitler provides an example of the latter path. He experienced the defeat of Germany in 1918 as a humiliation, both for him personally and for Germany. His entire political career was built on the need to regain pride for himself and for his country, by transforming shame to rage and aggression (Scheff 1994, Chapter 5).

...My colleage, Mark Jurgensmeyer, told me "In doing my book on terrorism I was struck with how common (in his interviews with terrorists) the theme of humiliation was, and how the sense of loss of dignity, of selfhood was linked with violence. "A quest for pride," a leader of the Hamas movement called it."

Finally, the humiliation of Islam by the US is a frequent theme of Bin Laden. "So they come again to destroy what remains of (Iraq) and to humiliate their Muslim neighbors…For more than seven years the United States (has been) occupying the lands of Islam in the holiest of its territories, Arabia, plundering its riches, overwhelming its rulers, humiliating its people… " Lewis 1998.

http://www.soc.ucsb.edu/faculty/scheff/20.html
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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
19. poll kick
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
20. why haven't any of the "yes" votes explained their reasoning...?
:shrug:
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
21. Detainees, no. Murdering fucking traitors, maybe.
In general, I'm opposed to the practice entirely. However, I may be convinced to think otherwise about certain people.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
22. A resounding NO!
Neither should they be placed in circumstances where they might be harmed, like by other inmates and guards, nor should they be denied the necessities of life, food, water, shelter and access to medical care if needed.

My reasoning being is that because these people haven't been tried yet, they are not guilty until they receive a fair trial and sentencing. This is what being American should be about, not fostering gulags around the world.
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smartvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
24. Setting aside very serious moral issue, experts admit it doesn't work. nt
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Johonny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
25. I'm all broken up about that man's rights
but what about the rights of that little girl.


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lazarus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. and torturing helps that how?
This isn't about the torture victim's rights, it's about our humanity.
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BJW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #25
41. read up on the Stanford Prison Experiment--google this
torture isn't about crime and punishment, or "just" comeuppance, it's about how when you cross over certain lines, it's hard, if not impossible to stop going down and down and down.

It's about keeping our humanity and our civility, and our moral high ground as a nation. It's about having other nations respect us and fear us, and want to emulate us for keeping our moral high ground, not follow us into utter ugliness and depravity.

And it's about our people being able to be hold our head up, and be proud of being American and what that really means--that we are decent, fair and good people, and that we believe and act on principles like nobody is above the law, that the law is what matters, and what's prohibited for other Americans is prohibited for non-Americans too.
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drmom Donating Member (450 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
26. No...The * admin has demonstrated quite nicely how it is a slippery slope!
nmi
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VOX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
27. NO. n/t
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WhereIsMyFreedom Donating Member (605 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
28. Hell yes
But only when the prisoner's name is George Bush, or Dick Cheney, or Condoleezza Rice, or Donald Rumsfeld, or Paul Wolfowitz, or Rush Limbaugh, or...

FYI: I voted no.
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Xenotime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
32. Never...
Human life is precious.
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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
33. tortured kick
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
34. Yes
But only if it's on 24. I used to root every week for Jack Bauer to do it.

In real life? Absolutely Not. Hope that doesn't make me a TV Land Hypocrite...
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. I think shows like 24 glamorize what shouldn't be.
I preferred "La Femme Nikita" where it was done but also presented as evil and unacceptable. Remember when the guy Nikita was forced to marry, when he realized he had been compromised by an operative, asked her whom she worked for, she replied that they were people who operated from the axiom that the ends justified the means. She also made sure he didn't get assassinated, which was what she was supposed to do.
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. Amerika has a VP that demands that the CIA...
should be exempt from the Geneva Convention. That is not only disgusting but sends a message to the rest of the world how low Amerika has sunk.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. Oh, we have definitely sunk into the depraved sector
of international bad guys stuff. We do have to take our country back. I don't like it when bad fiction becomes reality.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
39. Never ever for any reason.
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The Wielding Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-05 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
42. We are better and smarter than this. Stop this stupid administration!
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