"Fitzgerald To Present Evidence to New Grand Jury"-WSJ via ABC's The Note

From Daily Kos



The Bloomberg article:

And please scrape all this slime out of the bottom of this barrel so we can begin anew!:toast:

OR

make your list of those involved and CHARGE the motherfuckers

Knowing his track record with organized crime, I figured the Libby indictment was only Act One of a five act play.

Best news I've heard all day!!!

:kick: :kick: :kick:

wants something on the official record and when he is ready to take action. Anybody who is going on the record knows without question, if they lie he will indict and then tell America exactly why. No more no less.

Libby's legal minions may have overplayed a bad situation into a CF of epic proportions.

:popcorn:

but is that because he sees the potential for this to go somewhere?

I assume Fitz has a much better grasp of this than me, from where I sit I can't really understand what is going on in what looks like a conspiracy cloaked in lies.

Fitz has access to many sworn statements. Cutting them and then weaving them together so they coherently demonstrate an intentional act of treason is tough work when it's shot thru with perjury. Of course we don't know squat, yet.

Gyre

it suits them

I cannot believe that a savvy guy like him did not already "know" about Woodward..

The only problem, is that if it takes a LONG time from here on in, the clock is ticking and the admin is still rolling along attacking everyone who speaks up.These guys need to be dropped to their knees sooner rather than later:)

as part of some plea bargain. Remember the stories about Rove's atty's meeting with Fitz the morning of the day when Fitz announced the indictment against Libby? I've also read other stories about Fitz meeting with Shrub's personal atty.

As far as this taking time, I'm sure it will, but as long as the investigation is still open, it remains a black cloud hanging over the WH. I'd like to see it hang there, maybe even gt blacker, all the way through the 06 elections!

:)

"You can tell from the growing rage spewing from the White House that the hoods understand this as well."

The Hoods aren't too smart at running a country but they know when they're in Deep Shite.

learning Irish dance to that cd for the last few weeks..that and "Feet Of Flames".

Today is Howard Dean's birthday, too..nice present.

It doesn't say he was convening a new grand jury, but simply that he was presenting his evidence to a new grand jury. This could mean a new one is convened, or he could simply be "borrowing" another GJ (And the GJ is new only in the sense that it is new to the case), as prosecutors are often wont to do.

doesn't have to "convene" a new grand jury. A borrowed one will work just fine. :)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5383230&mesg_id=5405344

Please see that post.

The language (from the indictment) highlighted in red sounds an awful lot like prosecutor-speak for "I think there's a conspiracy here, and I'm looking into that, and if I find evidence of conspiracy, I'll seek conspiracy indictments."

Also, follow a little of the Abramoff stuff (which I'm sure you have). That case shows how they do it. They work their way through the group of conspirators, indicting as many as possible, going upward through the lower levels.

I'm not popping the cork yet, but we're getting into the holiday season.

It's beginning to feel like . . . Fitzgiving or Fitzmas and New Fitz Eve!

New Fitz Eve - I just made that up!!!! Pass the bubbly.:+ :party: :toast: :beer: :popcorn: :spray: :woohoo:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitzmas

Fitzmas Stockings are filling up!

Man, Santa really looks like he's been hitting the gym this year. He's gonna deliver presents to all the good boys and girls in record time, and a ton a coal to all the bad ones.

Treasons greetings! B-) :evilgrin: :+ :7 :hi:

ON all the bad ones.

Figuratively speaking, of course. :evilgrin:

When I was growing up in the 1950's in a bleak little dustbowl town in Colorado, the only thing that kept my 10-year-old mind alive was Mad Magazine. "Treasons Greetings" is a fine example of that noble tradition.

Thanks for the memories and the chuckle.

There's always a standing grand jury in DC. There would be no need to convene a new one.

should be ashamed of themselves for boasting that Fitzgerald was "done."

The VP's office is attempting to damage Fitzgerald's reputation, for obvious reasons. Take heart, because this is going to back-fire. Keep in mind that Fitzgerald is a very intelligent, extremely capable prosecutor. He has been fully aware that some of the dark forces in this country were planning to attack him. In fact, he is hoping that those hiding behind the fire wall created by Libby would begin to make movements. Fitzgerald is prepared to do his part within the courtroom and legal system.

Remember the day that little Scooter was arraigned, his attorneys called a quick press conference to announce that they were prepared to fight this case in court, but were not going to participate in trying it in the media? Now think: yesterday they told reporters that this Woodward business was a "huge" positive for their case. Why? Because of something Fitzgerald said in his press conference? Keep in mind that no where -- absolutely no where -- in the 5 count indictment is there any mention of if Scooter was, or was not, the first official to talk to a journalist about Plame. So, if this is what these fellows think is huge, you know that Scooter is in trouble. Big trouble.

In the press conference, Fitzgerald said Scooter was the first known official to tell a journalist about Plame. In the search for a way to have something/anything that contradicts Fitzgerald, the Cheney forces come out with this. All it does is clears a little of the sand out of the umpire's eyes.

Buckle your seat belt, you crooks from the VP's office. Your ride is just getting started.

It is a very big word and Keith treated it with all the respect it deserves. haahahahaaa

Those who oppose the truth, are FOOLS!

Peace.:hi:

It's ironic. If they hadn't attacked Wilson in the first place, they wouldn't be in this mess. But, it's the nature of the beast. They just can't help themselves. I hope Fitz is a good "lion tamer". Anyway, it gets it. Which is GOOD!

Their aggression leaves them off balance. And they indeed reflect "the nature of the beast." Watching Cheney, there is some satisfaction in the political sense. But it is sad to view him in terms of the loss of humanity, because of the intense damage he inflicts on himself and others. He is imbalanced.

"Their aggression leaves them off balance."

When the hell are all of these folks who say they have irrefutable proof that the Bush administration "did" 9/11 going to come forward with it? If you can read all about it in books and on the Internet, why haven't more t.v. news networks at least raised it as a possibility. After all, they don't mind putting psychics and ghost hunters on when none of that is accepted by everyone as truth.
I know in my heart that it is absolutely true that the "cabal" at least let 9/11 happen if not planned and executed it...but it still sounds so nutty if the proof doesn't make it to the general public. Where are all of these former FBI and CIA agents that know the so-called highjackers were housed and trained in the U.S? Surely someone in the Democratic party has the where-with-all to provide protection from the Bushnazis so these facts can be revealed. Once all this comes out, it will be the nail in the Bush administration coffin.

knowledge. :)

Fitzgerald warned us to not read any tea leaves.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5383230&mesg_id=5405344

Please read that post.

That poster is interpreting certain words from the Libby indictment that seem to show that Fitz is pursuing a conspiracy. As one who has read federal indictments and knows that fed prosecutors love to get conspiracy charges if possible, I agree with that poster's ideas.

Whether or not Fitzgerald has convened a new GJ or whatever, it is very clear that the Bush/Cheney crooks are still being investigated. So if the evidence is there (and Fitz is very good at finding evidence), there will be more heat.

"nickel and dime" type chit-chat, and the next he's saying, ``I explained in detail how I was trying to protect my sources. That's job No. 1 in a case like this.'' Protect them from what? Accusations of being garrulous old fishwives?

Also, Holder seems to assume that Woodward should be automatically believed by Fitzgerald and the Grand Jurors, however questionable his behaviour in these matters, whereas a perfectly innocent couple, Susan McDougall and her husband were, without a shred of evidence, denounced as perjurors and hounded respectively to prison and suicide.

May it be the talk of the day at all Thanksgiving tables throughout the nation! As Martha Stewart would say, "It's a good thing".

Let Fitz get everything he can on these scum, enough to put every last one of them away for a long, long time.

Regrettable though, at best, such behavior is, it is something people all over the world are able to understand, and of course, also know it to be supremely irrelevant to politics, quite apart from being no business of anyone other than the people directly involved, and where applicable, their families.

I was tickled to be reminded the other day of the comment of Barbara Tuchman, the great American WWI historian, on war: "War is the unfolding of miscalculations". But I was suddenly struck by a horrifying thought: What if a war is presided over by individuals whose record in PEACE TIME is no better! Somehow I don't think Napoleon would have given such individuals, who are as unlucky as they are hapless, the time of day.

5 seconds to google what Fitzgerald said during his press conference so they could have an ACCURATE headline! Fitzgerald said:

"This grand jury's term has expired by statute; it could not be extended. But it's in ordinary course to keep a grand jury open to consider other matters, and that's what we will be doing."

They only show their lack of journalistic ability, imo, when they can't even be bothered to understand how the grand jury system works nor check to see if Fitzgerald had already addressed this issue. LAZINESS personified, imo.

You never can know what lurks in the mind of an evil person.

We also need to remember that this media is the same media that did not report one word on the fact that the FCC rules were being changed to favor monopolies of all information going to the public via T.V., radio and print media not to mention in combination of all three. The only thing that stopped (slowed down) this consolidation was a grassroots effort on the internet and private mailings. In fact, some of the media is operating illegally at this point (Tribune Company comes to mind owning both KTLA and the Los Angeles Times), which needs the approval of the FCC from time to time. Power to the people, not the corporations.

The media does not want the White House to go down in flames. If the White House is subject to Juridical scrutiny, the LMSM will not have a chance of controlling all forms of communication for a long time, just stay tune and watch.

Please read

Media Propaganda and Spectacle in the War on Iraq: a Critique of U.S. Broadcasting Networks by Douglas Kellner

http://csc.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/4/3/329

then ask about media consolidation and kissups to the Bush FCC. Hmmm ?

Then look into Op Mockingbird
www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKmockingbird.htm

which is an illegal media manipulation project DOMESTICALLY along with military PsyOps

(like CNN and PsyOps www.counterpunch.org/cnnpsyops.html )

and how desperately the media wanted conservatives in power...who cares about a war when there's money to be made, right ?

Woodward's role is the same as Miller's. Just keep the Vulcans in power. Git 'r Done.

If Fitzgerald doesn't want to save the Republic then he has sold us all down the river.

"Update <2005-11-17 13:24:29 by mitch2k2>: #2 Have confirmed with one of the writers of the piece that the grand jury in question is indeed one that's already in existence.

Sorry for any confusion. Still a scoop that he's fixing to present again. May indicate new indictments in the wings."

it was the Abramoff jury? Connecting the dots would be so much easier, and so much overlap to discover.... "ah, twould be a ting uv beauty..."

...in his attempt to cover for this administration Woodward inadvertantly helped bring it down? Kinda like bringing down Nixon again but this time by accident.

Not that i'm defending Woodward. He was completely wrong in not informing anyone that he had the same information.

But, it changes nothing. The revealing of a covered agent for the purposes of revenge upon a political opponent is equally damaging whether was one of many, or the only, whether he was the first or last to reveal the name, beyond the normal range of classified clearances.

It is apropos of nothing.
The Professor

I don't know what the requirements for a conspiracy charge, but with only two leakers, it would be hard to prove a conspiracy. Now that there are three leakers, the likelyhood of conspiracy charges increases.

which the Libby team hoped would somehow lead uninformed people to think that Fitzgerald "musta missed something" and that therefore "the prosecutor doesn't know the facts, so how could he indict that guy"?

We know that's rubbish. I hope the whole world reads these blogs and posts that SAY it's rubbish.

People who know Washington say it's rubbish.

People who know the law say it's rubbish.

People who know politics say it's rubbish.

People who know Woodward say it's rubbish.

The rest of the people--whose work or knowledge is in some unrelated field--need to listen to the above.

and conspiracy was already in place... To me from the evidence this really looks more than just Wilson???

Maybe Fitz can dispute Woodward's assertion the "he" (whether Card or himself) knew of her covert status.

About the memo:

snip>
The memo may be important to answering three central questions in the Plame case: Who in the Bush administration knew about Plame's CIA role? Did they know the agency was trying to protect her identity? And, who leaked it to the media?

Almost all of the memo is devoted to describing why State Department intelligence experts did not believe claims that Saddam Hussein had in the recent past sought to purchase uranium from Niger. Only two sentences in the seven-sentence paragraph mention Wilson's wife.

The memo was delivered to Secretary of State Colin L. Powell on July 7, 2003, as he headed to Africa for a trip with President Bush aboard Air Force One. Plame was unmasked in a syndicated column by Robert D. Novak seven days later.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/20/AR2005072002517_pf.html

;)

:::heart pounding::: Oh, I hope so!

of Fitzgerald's investigation!

http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/ny08_nadler/FitzgeraldwarMemo102005.html

Nadler: Fitzgerald Must Broaden Investigation

“Did the Bush Administration deliberately mislead Congress about the war?

WASHINGTON, D.C. – In light of recent developments in the CIA leak investigation and other recent revelations, Congressman Jerrold Nadler today called for Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald to expand his investigation to include a criminal investigation to examine whether the President, the Vice President, and members of the White House Iraq Group conspired to deliberately deceive Congress into authorizing the war in Iraq. 

I suspect that Fitzgerald is more determined than ever to get to the bottom of this. Can you imagine how he must feel after the Woodward mess? Obviously, a huge cover-up has been spread over his investigation.
I promised myself that I wouldn't speculate, so I'll leave it at that!

The Libby Logjam has been broken and he's got new dog to chase. He KNOWS what went down but in court he needs to PROVE it. Woodward gave him vital info that hopefully will accomplish that objective.

Nah, but we can think any way we want - watching history unfold before our eyes is a fascinating thing.

Hello. Goodbye.

I'd love to see Cheney dragged out of his house in cuffs in his boxers and an undershirt. ...
On second thought, maybe I really wouldn't want to see him in underwear. Let him put on his clothes first, then drag him out in cuffs.

A new second grand jury!

He said the investigation will continue. This is phase two...more to come.

Sung to the notes of Gordon Lightfoot's "Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald"...

Fitzgerald sees new grand jury proceedings
Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:29 PM ET

By Adam Entous
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - In a sign he may seek new or revised charges in the CIA leak case, special counsel Patrick Fitzgerald said on Friday his investigation would be going back before a grand jury.

It was the first time Fitzgerald said he would be presenting information to another grand jury since the indictment and resignation three weeks ago of Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff, Lewis "Scooter" Libby.

Lawyers in the case said the investigation into who leaked the identity of CIA operative Valerie Plame, which has reached into the highest levels of the White House, could be moving into a new phase that could result in charges against other top administration officials.

President George W. Bush's top political adviser, Karl Rove, was told by prosecutors last month that he remained under investigation and could still be charged, lawyers said.

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2005-11-18T232851Z_01_SCH860443_RTRUKOC_0_US-BUSH-LEAK.xml

Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman would not answer directly whether Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld was Woodward's source.
White House national security adviser Stephen Hadley, with Bush at an Asia-Pacific summit in Pusan, South Korea, left it to aides to put out the word that he was not the source.

Neither was Cheney nor Bush, according to current and former officials and their lawyers, none of whom would agree to be identified.

link

this is a test

Libby is toast period.
Fitzgerald accuses him of lying about learning from Russert about Plame's identity. Now read this excerpt of the indictment and you will be left with no doubt that Woodard's comments will in no way affect Libby's case. Au Contraire, more indictments are coming and they might reach very high levels of our fraudulently elected government. Anyways here's the excerpts about Libby's lie and Fitzgerald's explanation:

It was part of the corrupt endeavor that during his grand jury testimony, defendant LIBBY made the following materially false and intentionally misleading statements and representations, in substance, under oath:

a.
When LIBBY spoke with Tim Russert of NBC News, on or about July 10, 2003:
i. Russert asked LIBBY if LIBBY knew that Wilson’s wife worked for the CIA, and told LIBBY that all the reporters knew it; and
ii. At the time of this conversation, LIBBY was surprised to hear that Wilson’s wife worked for the CIA;

b.
LIBBY advised Matthew Cooper of Time magazine on or about July 12, 2003, that he had heard that other reporters were saying that Wilson’s wife worked for the CIA, and further advised him that LIBBY did not know whether this assertion was true; and
c.
LIBBY advised Judith Miller of the New York Times on or about July 12, 2003 that he had heard that other reporters were saying that Wilson’s wife worked for the CIA but LIBBY did not know whether that assertion was true.
33.

It was further part of the corrupt endeavor that at the time defendant LIBBY made each of the above-described materially false and intentionally misleading statements and representations to the grand jury, LIBBY was aware that they were false, in that:

a. When LIBBY spoke with Tim Russert of NBC News on or about July 10, 2003:
i. Russert did not ask LIBBY if LIBBY knew that Wilson’s wife worked for the CIA,nor did he tell LIBBY that all the reporters knew it; and
ii. At the time of this conversation, LIBBY was well aware that Wilson’s wife worked at the CIA; in fact, LIBBY had participated in multiple prior conversations concerning this topic, including on the following occasions:
•
In or about early June 2003, LIBBY learned from the Vice President that Wilson’s wife worked for the CIA in the Counterproliferation Division;
•
On or about June 11, 2003, LIBBY was informed by a senior CIA officer that Wilson’s wife was employed by the CIA and that the idea of sending him to Niger originated with her;

•
On or about June 12, 2003, LIBBY was informed by the Under Secretary of State that Wilson’s wife worked for the CIA;
•
On or about June 14, 2003, LIBBY discussed “Joe Wilson” and “Valerie Wilson” with his CIA briefer, in the context of Wilson’s trip to Niger;
•
On or about June 23, 2003, LIBBY informed reporter Judith Miller that Wilson’s wife might work at a bureau of the CIA;
•
On or about July 7, 2003, LIBBY advised the White House Press Secretary that Wilson’s wife worked for the CIA;
•
In or about June or July 2003, and in no case later than on or about July 8, 2003, LIBBY was advised by the Assistant to the Vice President for Public Affairs that Wilson’s wife worked for the CIA;
•
On or about July 8, 2003, LIBBY advised reporter Judith Miller of his belief that Wilson’s wife worked at the CIA; and
•
On or about July 8, 2003, LIBBY had a discussion with the Counsel to the Office of the Vice President concerning the paperwork that would exist if a person who was sent on an overseas trip by the CIA had a spouse who worked at the CIA;
b. LIBBY did not advise Matthew Cooper, on or about July 12, 2003, that
LIBBY had heard other reporters were saying that Wilson’s wife worked for the CIA, nor did
LIBBY advise him that LIBBY did not know whether this assertion was true; rather, LIBBY
confirmed to Cooper, without qualification, that LIBBY had heard that Wilson’s wife worked at the
CIA; and

c. LIBBY did not advise Judith Miller, on or about July 12, 2003, that LIBBY had heard other reporters were saying that Wilson’s wife worked for the CIA, nor did LIBBY advise her that LIBBY did not know whether this assertion was true

Since the indictment tells us that Libby was informed, in mid-June, of Plame's identity by 1)a senior CIA officer, and then by 2)the under-Secretary of State, how do we know that Woodward wasn't just sitting right there with Libby, hearing this information at the same time?

Wouldn't that scenario fit with the various clues thrown out about who told Woodward? High official, mid-June?

Of course, the parts of your post I like best are the parts that emphasize "the corrupt endeavor". Yup--sounds like an incipient conspiracy case to me.

This is only a wild guess of course.

WHERE is our gallant Secretary of "Defense" while all this is going on? Shouldn't he be front-and-center, since all this uproar is about the deployment of the troops?

He must be too busy stirring up "bird flu" B.S. in order to shore up his already-bulging portfolio.

it would appear that the white house is going to pull other 'rabbits out the hat' to muddy the waters of this investigation. Fitz was right about getting sand kicked in his face.