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linazelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 07:00 PM
Original message
Kobe, sex, blood, semen samples, salaciousness...and no news
I'm listening to my friendly CON radio station on the evening drive and it's all Kobe all the time. Not a peep about Bush, Iraq, Intimgate--and Bush is somewhere hiding.

It seems as though the new approach from the liberal media is an orchestrated, obligatory blitz of all bad news for a day--maybe two--then silence. These "news blackouts" are abhorable. So you can't say they don't report the negatives but they just don't follow up so that important issues are kept out front. Same result. People are uninformed and thus, apathetic.

The media is our number one problem.
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J B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. See the only thing I'm interested in here...
Is the fact the Bryant defense team is attempting to totally rip apart the rape shield, medical privacy, and sexual assault laws in the state of Colorado. It's bold, it's crude, and if allowed to work, it'll shake the foundation of rape law all across the country.
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. So did Wm. Kennedy Smith's attorneys, and they're still in place. n/t
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J B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I just don't like it when...
Real life lawyers think they're on Law & Order and can spit in the judge's face and suffer no consequences whatsoever merely because they have a large salary. To me that's "contempt" in more than one sense.
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. That judge isn't afraid of Kobe's lawyers
If he had truly felt them to be in contempt, they'd already be fined or be cooling their heels at the 'crossbar motel' as we speak.
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J B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. The judge is being deliberately generous by...
merely suggesting the lead defense attorney use a muzzle to prevent herself from loudly announcing the presumed victim's name in an open hearing, rather than throwing her in a jail cell.

Now, the next time they spit in his face, I wonder if he'll be so generous? If there is a next time.

If they really do have conclusive proof that Kobe's innocent, rather than conclusive proof that the victim isn't an angel, the judge will dismiss the case very soon, since he's seen the evidence in sealed form.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. If I slept with my boyfriend or significant other and then was
raped the next day...I would then somehow be less violated? I do agree with anger at the prosecuter though.
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Solomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. You have a good point there, but the suggestion is that there was more
than a boyfriend being slept with here. The DNA would tell if you slept with your boyfriend, right? That could have easily been proven in this case, don't you think. Face it. This one is a classic. Even the detective she first spoke to said she told him that she never said "no" before the sex began, and when she told Kobe to stop, he stopped.

The stupid prosecutor saw this case as his big ticket. He should have never taken this case. And the fact that it took him so long to decide whether to bring it, is very telling.
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #12
33. Unless boyfriend doesn't want his face plastered all over the
morning papers. Having sex, whether boyfriend,one night stand, should not be a factor here. It is a case, yet again where the victim becomes the accused. She had sex=see she's a slut. It's just wrong, and a case should not be thrown out because of it.

I might add, I don't think another man would get off as easy based on that.(if Kobe gets off because of it)
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. We need to understand the *legal* issues, and get away from *emotion*
All crimes have elements, and the state must prove each element of the crime. The evidence they use must be a.)material, b.) relevant and c.) probative. So-called 'rape-shield' laws cannot be used to frustrate the defense regarding the crime in question on any element.

You are correct.
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Solomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Padraig I agree with everything you've said on this subject.
As well as on the other thread. When I see DUers get knee-jerk reactions like this, I get downhearted. It's like freeperville.

It's clear that a lot of people are assuming that rape took place.

You must be a lawyer too. I am too although I don't brag about it.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. With your post above, you are one to talk about knee jerk reactions
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wellstone_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #14
30. "skank" is a legal term? News to me
But hey, I'm in another profession where the terms are more precise.

I'll wait for the trial to get evidence heard rather than the pr blitz running now but again, your standards might be different.
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 07:25 AM
Response to Reply #14
46. Thanks!
I'm not a lawyer, but my boyfriend is a cop and a 2nd-year law student at the U. of I., and I've read a lot of his books; we've also discussed this together and with friends who are other police officers, law students and even an assistant State's Attorney who prosecutes sexual offenses like rape. :hi:
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. She's a "skank" you say? Well, the evidence against Kobe is strong
This article has all the evidence presented by the prosecution.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/10/16/1065917526371.html

Oh and I don't care if Kobe is proven "innocent", he gets what's coming to him for shitting on his marriage like this.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Are you kidding
Edited on Wed Oct-15-03 09:22 PM by dsc
You want the punishment for adultery to be life in prison. That is what he is facing in case you don't know.

And incidently my comment is in regards to this comment.

Oh and I don't care if Kobe is proven "innocent", he gets what's coming to him for shitting on his marriage like this.

I am making no comment on his guilt.
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. If it was "only adultery" then he will be found innocent
and hopefully his wife will find a new husband. If it was rape then I hope justice is served.
Regardless, I hope you are happy with the outcome.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. that is not what you said
You said he deserved what he was getting now for what he did to his marriage. Words have meaning even when typed by you. You may wish you said what you are saying now but that isn't what you said. And again, I haven't a clue what happened and to be honest don't really care. I do care when a supposed liberal says that adulters deserve to face life in prison which is what your post amounted to.
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. You can't read. I wrote:
"Oh and I don't care if Kobe is proven "innocent", he gets what's coming to him for shitting on his marriage like this."

IOW there is a chance Kobe will be proven innocent. However, having to publicly go through this ordeal is one immediate consequence of his adultery. It's what I meant the first time, and it is what I wrote the first time. You obviously read my words with some sort of prejudice. It's still there. I invite you to go read it again and see what it "amounts to" on the 3rd or 4th reading.
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #24
31. Still reading?.....................................
Hopefully in the future you will park your prejudices at the door.
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Brian Sweat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #22
35. Yes, because an all white jury will never convict a black man
if he is innocent. BTW, we used to have a justice system in this country that proclaimed that the accused was innocent until proven guilty. Evidently, that doesn't apply anymore, because most of you have convicted Brant even though you are not really privy to all of the evidence.
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Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #8
43. I bet all victims deserve it too, right?
Calling her a skank when you have no idea. What empathy.
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Ardee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
4. Perversion of justice?
As we saw in the OJSimpson trial money rules the ultimate verdict. Justice may be blind but she can certainly be bought.

Every damn reprot on this abysmal farce calls the woman the "accuser" rather than, as would be the case if the defendant was a man of even average means, the victim or to be fairminded the alleged victim.
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Solomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Bullshit bullshit bullshit.
Are you suggesting that rich defendants are always guilty?

The woman had SOMEONE ELSE'S SEMEN in her underwear when she went for the DNA test the next day.

You guys need to get off of this one.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #9
21. I really abhor lawyers that don't read. She had someone else's semen
in one pair but it was NOT the pair that she submitted that had KOBE's SEMEN in it.

There is NOTHING material about whether she engaged in consensual sex prior to being raped. I could have sex right now, walk from my door to the car and get raped.

If you really are a lawyer, I suggest getting your facts straight before you jump into an argument. Your clients will be eternally grateful.
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Isome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #9
28. I thought it was 2 other semen samples in her underwear?
e o m
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DemLikr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #9
40. Hang in there, Solomon. Common sense is rare on this topic.
So let's see...she was so traumatized and physically injured by her "rape," that she had sex with some other guy before going to the hospital the next day.

Regardless of anything else, how STUPID is that? I mean, for god's sake, at least change your panties between different sex partners.

Lord knows I insist on doing this myself...
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #9
44. WTF?
She had sex with someone else so she wasn't raped. That makes no sense.
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Ardee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 06:20 AM
Response to Reply #9
45. try reading,comprehending and understanding
then posting might earn you kudos instead of headshaking......

The simple truth , which you seek to deny or distort by playing up this victims private life, is that the charge of rape doesnt care if a woman has multiple sexual partners. What matters is whether she was forced to engage in sexual activity in this case.Neither I nor the laws of the land care one fig that you are so lonely as to be jealous of this womans activities.....
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nostamj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
5. "panties"

if that ferry hadn't crash in NYC, "panties" would have been the ONLY story.

the media (well, most of it, and ALL of cable) is useless.

then again, CBS RIPPED COLIN POWELL'S LYING HEART OUT tonight on 60 Minutes 2.

so, there's some hope... ;-)
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Solomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. I agree that the case is being used as a distraction.
There's far more important news. But consider this. The media has prejudiced Kobe with pretrial publicity. It's only right that they also report on exonerating evidence as well. To do otherwise would be a crime. (Its what they do with Iraq reporting, they tell us in big bold statements that wmd's were found, then three days later they whisper that it's not true.

If it were up to me, there would be no such thing as pretrial publicity. You can't possibly get a fair trial that way.
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Ardee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #11
49. exonerating evidence
Solomon, you are inappropriately named, sorry to say, as the wisdom of your namesake seems conspicuously lacking...what in heavens name are your referring to when you claim exonerating evidence? The woman had sex with another man so she could not have been raped by this man?
She is obviously promiscuous (unproven and irrelevant) so she could not have been raped?

I do believe that you may have a very valid point re the leaking of or reporting of pretrial hearings but we live in a rather open society (sometimes, if only for the most lurid of occurences) and this stuff seems inevitable.
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DemLikr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #5
41. Why not "underwear?" "Panties" on news sounds like something one
picks up with a tongs.
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quaker bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
15. What liberal media?
Perhaps you live somewhere where they have some?
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solinvictus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
16. Kobe
This shit is the same as Tonya Harding and Lorena Bobbitt when NAFTA was quietly being shoved down our throats. It's all a distraction.
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linazelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
20. I tried not to get caught up in the Kobe discussion but...
I'm tired of celebs committing crimes and then getting off scott free. Mike Tyson, William Kennedy Smith, OJ...were all guilty but bought their freedom. How many less fortunate people are in jail with the same or less evidence as Kobie's because they don't have his money?

At first I didn't really care about this issue. But the more I hear, the more I think he deserves to be brought to justice. It's sickening how they smear the victim in these cases. If this woman were simply out for money, she would have a boatload right about now. Obviously, she's seeking justice.
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bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. I agree - I don't see how anyone could think
that the victim is getting anything out of this. I really can't imagine anyone bringing such a case frivolously against a rich celeb with smeary lawyers.

Nor do I buy accusations that a prosecutor would try such a case without good evidence. It sure wouldn't help his career if he didn't have a case.

It sounds to me like the Kobe defenders have their emotions wrapped around their brains.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Quick names five prosecutors in LA who aren't
Marcia Clark and Chris Darden.
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dreissig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #23
29. Kobe's Fans Don't Want to See Him in Prison
If Kobe is found guilty, he won't get off with a reprimand and community service. Rape is a serious felony. He'll go to prison.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #29
39. Kobe's Fans Are Nothing
Compared to commercial endorsements, media interests, magazines sold, etc. etc.

There are a whole lot of people whose investments are going to be wrecked if that girl is not lying and if Kobe is convicted.

Either way, the media get to score big ratings.
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NicoleM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #23
37. Or maybe
Kobe's defenders are reserving judgement until they've seen all the evidence. I haven't seen anybody here proclaim Kobe's innocence. I've seen some people say that he *might* be innocent.
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #37
47. Yes, some of us are reactionaries...
...who believe in the quaint old "innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, and to a moral certainty" thing.
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Brian Sweat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #20
36. Yes, I think all celebrities should be sent to jail as soon
as someone accuses them of a crime. No need for a trial, since you know they are guilty.
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
27. Even worse was the 'Bush, Flyboy' profile of W's time as a pilot.
CNN was on at my house briefly tonight, and it was ad nauseum about the Kobe story but they had a 'teaser' telling of an upcoming segment on W's younger years, entitled 'Flyboy'. Given his REAL military record, shouldn't it have been called 'Fly-away-boy'?
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SpaceCatMeetsMars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #27
32. I think that program is about Bush Sr.'s WWII career
and Paula Zahn's lips sure need to be surgically removed from Poppy's keister.
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. oops, sorry! I thought it seemed TOO unbelievable
thanks for the correction and you are right about Paula Zahn
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SpaceCatMeetsMars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #34
38. Well, I read about it in the TV Guide - called "A Flyboy's Story"
And it included a quote from someone who says the Japanese would have eaten Poppy if they had caught him! Would there really be enough soy sauce in the world to make that palatable?

Of course, Paula looks like she'd just like to gobble him up she loves him so much.
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Loonman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
42. Put Kobe away and be done with it
I'll laugh when he goes down for 20-life.
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 07:29 AM
Response to Reply #42
48. If you're ever charged with a crime...
... i hope YOUR jurors don't have such a ridiculous attitude. :eyes:
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