Montesorri/Mussolini Roots: Are Montesorri School Fascist Schools?

THis is a serious acedemic question. Please avoid flaming and lets TRY TO FIGURE THIS OUT for ourselves.

There is no doubt Marie Montesorri was at least unconfortable with the Nazis and fascists in an unholy partnership. Montesorri's personal opinions about this are not the point. I want to determine both the pastinfluence on the Italian fascist on Montesorri schools and MOST IMPORTANTLY ITS PRESENT INFLUENCE within the American Fascist movement.
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Excerpts from the following link

http://novaonline.nv.cc.va.us/eli/evans/his135/Events/Montessori52/Montessori52.html

In her book Education for a New World, she wrote,

“… it follows that, if we wish to alter the habits and customs of a country, or if we wish to accentuate more vigorously the characteristics of a people, we must take as our instrument the child, for very little can be done in this direction by acting upon adults. To change a generation of nation, to influence it towards either good or evil, to re-awaken religion or add culture, we must look to the child, who is omnipotent. The truth of this has been demonstrated of late by Nazis and Fascists, who changed the character of a whole peoples by working on children.”

(Snip)

1922-Maria is appointed a government inspector of schools in Italy.

1924-Maria meets with Mussolini, and he agrees that the Italian government should again support Montessori schools.

1927-The Montessori Society of Argentina is founded after Maria’s lectures in Buenos Aires, La Plata and Cordoba.

1929-The Association Montessori Internationale (AMI) is founded in Berlin, Germany.

1930-The Child in the Church is published.

1931-Mussolini closes all the Montessori schools because the teachers would not pledge loyalty to Fascism. Maria leaves Italy and returns to Spain.

1932-Peace and Education and The Mass Explained to Children are published.

1935 -The AMI relocates to Amsterdam and continues to be headquartered there.

1936-The Spanish Civil War begins and Maria leaves Spain for England.
Maria is invited to reside in Holland by one of her students, Ada Pierson. The Secret of Childhoodand The Child in the Family are published.

1939-Maria and Mario fly to India to escape World War II (Mahatma Gandhi had visited the Casa dei Bambini in Rome).

Erdkinder and the Function of the University (The Reform of Education During and After Adolescence) is published.

1940 June - Mario is sent to a prison camp because he is Italian (enemy alien) and India is under British rule. Maria is, however, given permission to travel around India.


End excerpt
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Ok

Basically from 1924 (year Mussolini came to power) to 1931 the Fascist Italian state had a direct partnership with Montesorri and these were the years of great expansion to Headquarters in Berlin and The Netherlands. Mussolini paid for Montesorri and from what I've heard all the big fascist sent their kids there.

Montesorri broke with Mussolini in 1931 the same year Italy invaded Abyssinia, when she refused to require all her teachers take fascist loyalty oaths. Essentially the Fascists kicked her out. What is unclear is what happened to these schools from the period 1931 to 1945. Seems to me they were run by Italian facsist and seem to be run by the same type of people. Montesorri represents Corporatism. Like a gated village surrounding your childs mind. This is the meat of the matter.

I want to trace the Fascist 20s 30s 40s installed teachers/ curriculum and follow that down to the present day.

Who owns these schools? I believe its all privately owned so there is absolutely no public accountability.

WHO WENT TO THESE SCHOOLS IN THE NEOCON CABAL. I wanna know! Scalia?

Having experienced these schools I believe they promote elite-worship, money-worship and self aggrandizement.

These schools act as a corrosive effect on our public schools and increases the difference between the haves and the have-nots.

Please assist me in researching Montessori schools which are everywhere now and growing.

..and it was the best thing for her...she is now STREETS ahead of her public school fellow classmates in her new school...the only reason she'd not still there? They didn't go higher than 5th grade...

And they meet the elite and get the best of everything. That's not what I want to know.

They create children that are way ahead. Doesn't that bother you a little? Not so much that she got all her advantages, more that 99% do not. Kindof makes it hard for the non-Montesorri people, no?


Glad for your child of course.

If public schools provided the same curriculum as do Montesorri schools, would you still oppose this method?

I'm all for public schools--my wife and I are public school products from pre-school through graduate school--but I don't get your implied reasoning that giving your child the best possible chance in life is somehow wrong.

But I'm glad you said something about it insead of me.

this is an issue that requires a bit more of a macro perspective to properly understand. The key effects are generated by virtue of the inter-generational effect. Over the period of several generations the expected effect is that the economic influence of the privileged increases at a geometric rate, while the non-preferred class grows only at a relatively stagnant rate. This is a philosophy that underlies Republican economics. Burying the estate tax, so to speak, lifts a huge barrier on the march towards greater accumulation of wealth and power. What further compounds the problem is the clubbish social behavior that further segregates the power structure from the rest. This way the wealth accumulates and stays within a small social structure. This has been happening for decades, as one would expect.

I don't feel guilty for having paid for my child's early education so that she DID get that head start, and instead of wondering which minimum wage job to take after high-school, she will be considering which scholarship and from which college to accept...

It meant I had to sacrifice the material things that my peers splurged on, but I think that the reward for her in the long run will far outweigh any "look at me" type of posessions that her tuition would have bought...

I have a friend that asked me at the time if I was out of my mind. He bought a McMansion full of fancy furniture, lots of toys and his girls went to pubic school. I lived in an apartment and drove the same car for nine years. Now my daughter is in the top 95% and my friends eldest daughter almost flunked the 7th grade...

My friend made his choice, and I made mine. Both my daughter and I can live with ours, I am not sure my friend's daughter would say the same knowing the choices that her father made....

But more a high quality form of education and that makes it elitist. And there may have been negative effects, but in general the effect is positive, but since it requires a lot more work, it is many times more expensive.

You can compare it to the Jesuits which were very important in the past. They had a completely different view on education as well and made great schools, however the cost of Jesuit education was such that it was many times higher than the public school system. And even though the Jesuits have brought forth quite a number of dubious people, including in their own ranks, their method of eduction was essentially a guide to freethinking (cultivating the ability to think independently) and that resulted into some dictators but also in lots of good politicians, philosophers etc.

Either way if you can afford Montessori or Jesuit than the difference will be immense for your children, but they are essentially expensive private schools.

This is like a cartoon version of how libertarians view egalitarians, wanting to level everyone down to the same mediocrity.

Let me understand, your beef is that the school produces better students?! Have I understood the alternative? It would be morally right to produce worse students?

does not make for fact. Here's my anecdote: Both my kids attended public schools, both received multiple full ride academic scholarships to a variety of colleges and universities. Therefore, public schools are best.

Oh, and my daughter isn't a screaming Nazi which seemed to be the inference of the person that started this thread... :eyes:

actually supporting the premise that

1) Montesorri schools were born of fascism.

2) Montesorri schools and facilities were built INITIALLY by Mussolini from 1924 to 1943.

3) Determine the effect of this history on what is going on in the 7000 Montesorri schools. ie curriculum. target market. What's the effect on socialization when every one you know lives in a mansion and makes enough to pay the incredibly expensive fees? Seems to me it would be a total mind fuck. Yet the children seem great, maybe my premise is totally wrong, but I'm at least trying to get some actual fact and not anecdotal outrage at the premise.


There is very little out there and I want to study this. People who have children in Montesorri school rave about them. I'm not interested in that. Of course schools with so much teacher attention are great. I'm interested in the curriculum under Mussolini and the curriculum today. I want to look at the actual people that went there in the Mussolini period. How did it change after Montesorri was kicked out in 1931?

except to say that my wife and I are paying a mortgage on a very modest house and the decision to send our son to a private school is based only on the fact that we want the best for him. We are far from rich. Also, we have friends who are likewise far from rich who send their son to the school we are considering. I really have no knowledge of the historical underpinnings of Montesorri schools--though I do think it would be fascinating to know more about this--but, unless I am totally missing your point, it seems like you are saying something akin to "Hitler commissioned the Volkswagon, so anybody who drives a Beetle is a Nazi."

If you knew me, you would know that I am about as far away from being an elitist as you can imagine. But I adore my son and will do anything in my power to enhance his life, to improve his life chances. I hope that doesn't make me a fascist.

and they seem to vary considerable. I was told 30,000 per year, but I have also found 10,000 per year. 7000 per year. That seems almost reasonable. I know public education funds about 4000 to 12000 per child per year. So apparetly I am quite wrong about their cost. Or they vary


Its very interesting that the Montesorri method is a very comprehensive way of individually customising teaching to a child. That seems to have survived from the prewar period to the present day.


Here is a link to the best info I have on the Montesorri/Fascist history. Basically there is a link, but anyway if your interested the story is that the fascists ultimately rejected Montessari's methods for the very reason that 'individually customised to the specific child' just doesn't turn out very good 1930's fascists. Still they ran them apparently to one degree or anothter from 1924 to 1938 when they were "all closed down".

http://www.ed.uiuc.edu/EPS/PES-Yearbook/1998/wasson_boyles.html

That looks like an interesting article and I would read it right now, but it's 1:30 in the morning and I have to work most of the day tomorrow. Since encountering this thread, I've been doing a bit of online reading on the local Montessori school and the Montessori-esqe school that we're considering. Both are in the $6K-$7K range. That's a lot of money for us, but we can swing it if we're frugal. The one thing that I truly found objectionable about the Montessori school here is that it has mandatory drug testing for 7th graders. I know many people might disagree with me, but I have a visceral distaste for mandatory drug testing for anyone. And I'm not a drug user. I just don't like the implied message of such tests.

in one of the 5 wealthiest counties in the country, our excellent Montessori school was significantly less than $10,000 a year for elementary grades but that was about 9 years ago. It was much cheaper than the other private schools.

At that time, I made the same comparison as you did and our public district was spending roughly as much. It really isn't a fair comparison though because they do not have to accept every one, public school costs include busing and very high per student spec ed kids. I did find that our public schools have experimented to some degree with some Montessouri like materials that help kids get hands on experience.

Overhead on the school, teacher salaries, stuff like that. In my mid-sized Southern city, private education costs around $10,000 per year. I would imagine it would be much higher in DC or SF, where property and cost of living are sky high.

The Fascists took over her schools - her methods ended up banned in Nazi Germany. She had to flee Italy

The article CONTRADICTS your theory. Here's the most relevant paragraph:

"However, the experience of Montessori schools in Europe during the 1930s demonstrates that her practice of education still had an affinity for democratic politics. Both Hitler and Mussolini expressed interest in Montessori schools as a way to create a new Fascist social order.8 At this time, Montessori was described by her associates as being apolitical and allowed Mussolini to appropriate her schools in Italy. However, as the control of fascism became more pervasive in society, Montessori schools began to close. By 1935 Montessori's methods were forbidden in Nazi Germany, by 1936 the remaining schools in Italy had been closed, and in 1938 all existing Montessori schools in Austria were shut down.9 Montessori, herself was forced to flee Italy, traveling as an exile first to Spain and then to India.10 Given that the Nazi Party eventually viewed her schools as a threat to the advance of fascism,11 there might be a historical corollary. Since Montessori's practice moves education away from the totalitarian ideology of authoritarian dictatorship, it also moves education toward the democratic ideal in that it fosters a greater respect for persons, which resembles the practice of citizens in a democracy. Translated into the politics of schooling, this would suggest a greater level of respect for students, whose membership in the school polity, by virtue of their engagement in work, entitles them to a greater level of participation in the decision making process. "

that is, you have to take all comers regardless of parental motivation, income, or disability, then the comparison is apples and oranges.

I would suggest that Montessori benefits significantly from having motivated parents more than motivated kids. The parents daily attention and nurturing will trump most everything.

I'm not questioning their value, just the dissing of public ed when compared. In the special schools category, its hard to beat private catholic schools, but they again, do not play by the same rules as publics.

I taught in Catholic schools, and we had an amazingly varied student body. We had students with IEPs and from every background. The reality is, they need money, they need the students, and they promised their congregations that they'd take their kids.

The publics have more, that's true, but their schools also tend to be larger and cover larger populations. For the populations we covered, we had a similar mix as was found anywhere else.

I taught students from the projects, students with no parents living with foster families, students who worked two jobs to pay for what was left of their tuition after scholarships and to help pay the rent and grocery bills, students with parents working so hard they almost never saw them, and all the rest. The schools had a responsibility to take those students, so they did.

Now, not all Catholic schools are run like that, I will admit, and many have developed quiet ways to weed students out. However, we also got many students the public schools had given up on and kicked out (everyone thought we could "fix" the child somehow).

The public schools are one of our country's best assets, so please don't think I'm bashing them. My mom taught in the public schools for 35 years, I went to public schools, and I only taught in the Catholic schools because I didn't have the connections to get into the publics. I am sending our children to the Catholic school in town because of my direct experience in the Catholic schools and because of our faith (we're Eastern Orthodox, which is very close to the Roman Catholic Church in doctrine and practice).

But my wife and I are giving serious consideration to sending our son to a Montesorri-esque school. We have friends whose son is there now and they're sold on it. The public schools here are no great shakes, especially in our district. I sure don't want my son to come goose stepping home one day, though....

Seriously, though, my understanding is that these schools promote creativity and help children discover and develop talents they might otherwise not get a chance to develop. Is this not correct?

Like children of CEO's. And its like a whole different level. Froi gras for lunch? we had that yesterday. Field trips to the Pyramids. If you pay 10,0000 extra, your child flies first class and 5 star hotels.

Plus they work them unbelievably hard.

I dunno about that.

My son went to a M school from the time he was 2/12 until he started first grade. He was like most students in M schools and pre-schools way ahead of his peers when he started public school.

But we didn't see too much foie gras, although there was a lot of peanut butter. As for trips to the Pyramids, I think he did go to the zoo and the symphony a couple of times.

Is a M school self selecting because of the cost? Sure it is. But that's true of the better Catholic and other types of private schools. There were lots of kids at my son's M school whose parents were professional people and educated, but I don't recall a lot of real movers and shakers. The school, by the way, was in a metal prefab building in the middle of a corn field.

To address the original question, M schools Fascist? I certainly didn't think so and I was probably farther to the left of any parent in the school. I thought the method of teaching managed to accomplish two contradictory things, foster independent creativity and cooperative learning. My son was taught to not fall apart and figure out a problem by himself and to teach what he knew to younger students. I'd say that a big part of his continued success in school is because of the care, attention, and the method of instruction he was exposed to at the M school.

Would've gone further -- at the time it wasn't that expensive, really -- but as a single parent I couldn't handle the extra commuting time getting him there, esp. since the nearest public school was 1 short block away.

He benefitted greatly from it, and so did I. They taught him many things, including how to shine his shoes. Academics were wonderful.

Since the whole experience including the owners themselves were extraordinarily LIBERAL, there was absolutely no hint of fascism (which is rightwing).

My vet and his wife have just purchased a Montessori school which had kinda gone downhill and they've done wonders with it. Believe me, they're not fascists either.

This is easily the dumbest, most questionable discussion I've ever seen at DU.

I'm not suggesting they are goosestepping the children around or indoctrinating them for some sort of race war! I need to do further research and OBVIOUSLY THIS IS NOT A GOOD PLACE FOR THAT!



So I'm "stupid" because a school founded and FUNDED by mussolini might be somewhat problematic? Have you seen Pasolini's 101 nights of Sodom? Anyway I'm simply asking HOW did a fascist school for elites become a 'hippy' school for elites? NOONE (cept me) seems to remember it ever had anything to do with fascism.


Maybe like present day Germany, Montesorri only shares a name with its WWII past. I very much am willing to be proven wrong. What the hell is the "Truth" anyway. If they are all privately owned perhaps they have all kinds of different ones. Its a huge subject.

I know alot of people who are spending an ENORMOUS amount of money on these schools and I simply am asking pretty obvious questions.

AM I a little upset that the children in my family go to run down shitty crappy schools and are growing up with no hope, no chance and a loser from the start? YES! Do I think the rise in Montesorri and the FALL OF PUBLIC EDUCATION are RELATED = YES!

Do I think the rise in Montesorri and the FALL OF PUBLIC EDUCATION are RELATED = YES!

That only confirms my worries about this whole conversation. Hell, there aren't even enough OF them around the country to cause that. And as damaging as I think charter schools are, I'd have to say the same about them: there aren't enough to have caused the erosion in public education.

IMO your whole premise -- that Montessori was probably a fascist and all these years later her schools actively promote fascism simply because she happened to live in Mussolini's Italy -- is the very widest and most broad brushed application of guilt by association that I've probably ever seen.

You're probably right, though, that this may not be the right place to do research when the premise is biased in the direction you biased it.

NOONE (cept me) seems to remember it ever had anything to do with fascism.

You haven't established that it did, except in your own mind. I think you should back up, flush your mind of its biases, and approach your research from a far more objective starting point. That's no doubt the reaason you're getting all the flak you're chafing against: your negative predisposition toward Montessori, already convinced it had a negative fascist origin, fascist more recent past and fascist current reality, and looking for verification.

If you want to know what are American Montessouri schools are really like, you are getting answers from a very large group of people who actually had some connection to them. This is also not a random group = we are on the liberal side of the spectrum.

We have explained how the schools are run
We have described the teachers/administrators
We have explained some of the ways things are taught

This is field information on the schools themselves. (The school don't all have the same standards. Just because you are not getting the answer you want, doesn't mean the answers are wrong. As a scientist, you started with a thesis and need to investigate it. You can prove it OR disprove it. If I were you, I would consider getting info from other places as well - but keep everything you are given, not just what backs up your pre-conceived hypothysis. (which was well thought out and well researched)

It may well have been that her ideas were adopted because they appeared to work. A country is better off with well educated citizens. The closing of them may have been that they found that they did foster independence and creative thought.

Here is a link with information that was very close to what I remember from when my kids went to Montessori.

http://www.michaelolaf.net/

The very premise of the OP is flawed. One cannot simply paste some historical references from wartime Italy over a living, breathing, organically growing educational philosophy that has developed differently in the vast expanses the U.S.

My son, who I was told to instutionalize as he (according to the medical "experts" at UCLA) would never be able to... attended a Montessori School. I was at that time an "impoverished" single black mom and will not waste my time elaborating on this thread other than to say that he is now out-of-country studying advanced math in a second language.

I have no idea what you're talking about. I have worked with Montessori schools in Cleveland and Kalamazoo, MI, and I have never seen anything like what you're describing. Ever.

Now, I have seen that in super-expensive privates that aren't Montessori at all, so maybe that's what you're thinking of.

Work them hard? The Montessori method is that a child's work is play. They are to play and explore in an environment constructed for the best learning. My daughter's preschool had an hour and a half of structured play time--how is that working them hard?

The Catholic girls school I taught in did work the girls hard, but we weren't Montessori at all. We had the same regimented system as every other Dewey-based school in the States. Are you sure that's a Montessori school? If it is, it sure doesn't sound like they're following Montessori's system much at all.

Living in one of the top 5 counties, there are VERY VERY expensive, very exclusive private schools that caterr more to these families. The Montessori school had a pretty broad range of familes and there were scholarships available - so some kids were very bright inner city kids.

that only hires teachers from England. I forget how many brazillion dollars per year. The old time establishment private school is a Country Day. None of the real movers and shakers in my town would be caught dead with a kid in a Montessori. Plus Montessoris don't do grades, which would make Type A competitive parents nervous.

..is that the kids learn at their own pace, and everything is very much hands on...

If you have any other questions about Montessori please PM because it appears that some in this thread think that it is a school for snobs and elitists and that is NOT the case...

wow...simply...wow.

:Puke:

In practice, if anything, those schools are anarchistic (at least they are in the Netherlands).
And i don't mean that in a negative way.

The teachers actually guide the students more than it seems, but we are so used to seeing students learning in a more regimented way that it seems anarchistic.

My daughter's teachers were amazingly on the ball and really helped her love school (when she's a strong enough and smart enough kid they could've beaten that out of her instead). The method works.

until the Nazis took over and she had to transfer to a Jewish school.

I have an opinion and I am collecting facts AMOUNG FRIENDS so I thought.

Montessori started her school mostly by accident. She was in Rome's poorest slum for a health clinic (she was the first woman doctor in Italy, and that was the only job she could get after med school), and she decided the kids needed a school after finding out that there was no school in the area. She was told that the children were considered "trash" and not worthy of "wasting" education dollars on. She put together some educational toys, got some books, and got a woman to help the kids stay busy and not fight. She was suprised when a student proved to her that he'd taught himself to read, and that's when she developed her system.

Her plan was for the schools to be mostly for the kids everyone else forgot. How is that fascist? If anything, they were trying to co-opt her system, and it seems clear in your post that she figured that out eventually and tried to struggle against it.

The only reason Montessori schools in the States are private (for the most part, as there are some public magnet Montessoris in the country) is because we rejected her system in favor of Dewey's (which is far more fascist--just read his original theories and writings).

I sent my daughter to a Montessori school because I could wrangle the money together and because the Montessori method works. I learned that in my education classes in college. It works because it encourages independent thought and individual freedom of each student. How is that fascist?

When I taught high school, some of my best students were former Montessori students. They always had a new way of viewing the problem and hadn't had their curiosity beaten out of them.

Before researching the fascism connection, research the actual theory and method first. Then, research Dewey's method and theory. After reading that, see which you think is more fascist.

I'm a Montessori teacher and I can assure you that not only were the students I had NOT privileged, many of them were the exact opposite. If anything, Montessori was considered an enemy of the state ~ and most of her early schools were in India where she provided for that country's poor children.

Many teachers today are trained in India. I went to school in Ireland.

It is one of the best ways to teach children and I worked closely with the local public schools in our area ~ some public schools have installed Montessori in their kindergartens.

If there's something 'fascist' about allowing a child to develop to their full potential, that's news to me.

Since the majority of Montessori schools in this country only deal with pre-school, or at the most, Kindergarten, they are no threat at all to the public schools and most of our public schools love to get Montessori students.

Are you saying that we should stop children from doing what they love to do most, LEARN? In an exciting and interesting way? Not learn how to read? To understand numbers, history, art, music?? Wow, I have heard a lot but this is totally alien to me ~ but then, that's what happened to Montessori herself in Fascist Italy. They closed down her schools maybe because 'an educated population' is a threat to a fascist government?

And, btw, Montessori first worked with the neglected and badly treated poor, learning dis-abled children in Italy. She believed they too had a right to learn, and proved they could!! She is probably one of the first people to give hope to those who had some learning disabilities as at that time, they were simply condemned to institutions and left to vegitate!!

The teachers I know take less pay because they love what they do. I can't imagine where you're coming from with this ~ Montessori wanted to teach the learning disabled and the only reason she got permission to do so was that no one thought it would be possible.

And don't forget, she was the first female doctor in Italy also. And she had a son outside of marriage, a real no-no at the time ~ if anything, she was a true liberal ~ I think you need to learn a little more about her ~ and maybe be more careful about making such accusations without knowledge ~

As I said, most of the schools in India are poor ~ and elsewhere. Here, many who go to Montessori schools simply choose them over other early learning or day-care centers. Most parents today have to pay daycare fees, you don't have to be 'elite' to be burdened with those costs ~

I find this OP to be very disturbing to be honest, although it probably would not surprise those who were victims of Fascism, as was Montessori herself were they alive today.

You put is so well. I just cannot understand where anyone would get the idea that Montessori is fascist. If anything, it's the opposite.

Btw, thank you for being a teacher. I couldn't make it beyond three years, and I am truly grateful and impressed with anyone who can stay in it. You are a true gift to our future and our children.

Yeah buddy, Montessori schools are nothing but fascist indoctrination centers for the children of the corporate elite.

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

Your post is full of distortions and bizarre misconceptions. I don't know how you figured all this out, but your research has led you to the incorrect conclusion. I went to a Montessori school as a kid and lemme tell ya, there was no fois gras or fancy field trips. What I remember most was that I got to play a keyboard and paint whatever I wanted on the easel.

Oh, and Italy invaded Abyssinia in 1935, so I don't see how that factors into your twisted argument.

where there are none.

The OP chose a quote from Montessori but left out her reason for the quote.

Maria Montessori traveled to many countries to lecture and educate the world on her scientific discoveries and method of education. She experienced the misfortunes of both world wars and became a strong proponent of peace. She strongly believed that peace could be achieved through the child. In her book Education for a New World, she wrote,

“… it follows that, if we wish to alter the habits and customs of a country, or if we wish to accentuate more vigorously the characteristics of a people, we must take as our instrument the child, for very little can be done in this direction by acting upon adults. To change a generation of nation, to influence it towards either good or evil, to re-awaken religion or add culture, we must look to the child, who is omnipotent. The truth of this has been demonstrated of late by Nazis and Fascists, who changed the character of a whole peoples by working on children.”

Maria Montessori was nominated in 1949, 1950 and 1951 for the Nobel Peace Prize.

Out of context, as in the OP, of course this could sound like Bush Sr.'s New World Order kind of stuff, but Montessori's reasoning was that no child is born a Nazi, or a Fascist or any other 'ist' but as she said in that quote, the Nazis and Fascists 'worked on the children'!! Remember the Nazi youth movement? THAT'S what she OBJECTED to.

She believed that this could not happen again if children were never again allowed to be indoctrinated, but rather allowed to think for themselves!!

The OP picked, out of context, a few select statements ~ and implied there was some sort of partnership between Mussolini and Montessori, when in fact, the opposite was true. Like so many others, she was unfortunate to live under a fascist government.

We live under one right now that is getting pretty close to a fascist government. If I accept funding to educate my students from that government (before they find out that I'm turning out thinking citizens and shut down my school) am I 'in partnership' with this government's policy?

Montessori was a woman's rights advocate, a tireless advocate for peace in the world, nominated for the peace prize several times. Ghandi loved her schools, is he too a fascist?

I hope you are now better informed about the real woman who contributed so much to those who had been forgotten until then, to promoting peace in the world, and to working all of her life to try to give the same opportunities to all children. That is why I and other teachers I know agree to work for such low salaries, so that the tuition can be kept as low as possible ~

regarding history.


Big fucking deal I got the date on Abbysiania wrong. so sue me.


Facts are that Mussolini FUNDED AND TOOKED OVER MONTESORRI SCHOOLS FROM 1924 to the end of the WAR thats 20 YEARS!

From what I experienced in South Florida was a kiddie club for the SUPER ELITE. At about 30,000 dollars per year. And yes they ate froi gras, and had fake snow carted in for Christmas (but the child who paid 10,000 dollars got to play in it for 10 minutes ahead of the rest) and took yatch cruises to Mayan if you could afford the extra fees. Plus they have like one teacher for every 4 students. - Great prepretory for a cadre of elites. You think these schools arent POLITICAL AND SOCIAL EXCLUSION IN ACTION? think again.
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So everythings fine, meanwhile inner city kids can't read and live in ganglands. BLAh , blah...

See I'm a FDR liberal and I want our PUBLIC schools to not suck so much. People don't realise how the upper 1% that controls 40% of our nation's wealth stay in power with institutions like Montesorri. This gives them total protection and in their twisted ethics cuts programs for the poor like is happening right now!

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I ASK FOR REAL HELP AND I GET FLAMES>.. YOU THINK MONTESORRI DOESNT WANT TO COVER THESE NASTY LITTLE HISTORIC FACTS UP? MUSSOLINI BUILT MONTESORRI - DEAL WITH IT>

I'm collecting facts and I see you have none to share.

One example of one Montissori school with a lot of rich kids. Therefore, all Montissori schools are like that. I don't see why you would make such an extrapolation from a single example.

Furthermore, you base your assertion that modern Montissori schools in the United States must be fascist creches because Mussolini took over Italian Montissori schools in the '30s. Again, that's quite a stretch.

Two can play this game. I went to a Montissori school for a year as a child. I am not a member of the elite, and I am not a fascist. Therefore, no children who attend Montissori schools are elite or fascist. There. That's pretty much the opposite of what you said using the same reasoning.

If you don't believe me, believe the Montissori school teacher who also posted in this thread demonstrating the inaccuracy of your broad-brush generalizations and tenuous historical links. She has more credibility than anyone else in this thread.

Which is scant at best.



DU is a land of argumentative jerks who only like to argue. Come here asking a honest question and you get flamed. No wonder Democrats suck so much. DU is like a bunch of ornery mo fos who attack first and think later.

Mussolini owned your school? Who cares? not interested in history or helping. I know just ignor me.

well, you know the rest.

But I'm not going to ignore you.

Oh, and if you want research, the Wikipedia articles on Montessori schools and the woman herself don't say anything about fascism.

And the answer is: The fascists were very interested at first. Mussolini himself became the head of the Intl Montesorri Assn. But by 1936 they realised it created independent thinking people and so Montesorri methods were 'bad for fascism' so they closed ALL Down. Still I would like to know the financial history of the organization and the specifics of the Italian/German and Austrian schools. I don't think I'm going to post anymore because frankly noone seems at all interested.


Here are the relevent passages cause I know DU'ers hate actually following links.
(Snip)
Both Hitler and Mussolini expressed interest in Montessori schools as a way to create a new Fascist social order.8 At this time, Montessori was described by her associates as being apolitical and allowed Mussolini to appropriate her schools in Italy. However, as the control of fascism became more pervasive in society, Montessori schools began to close. By 1935 Montessori's methods were forbidden in Nazi Germany, by 1936 the remaining schools in Italy had been closed, and in 1938 all existing Montessori schools in Austria were shut down.9 Montessori, herself was forced to flee Italy, traveling as an exile first to Spain and then to India.10 Given that the Nazi Party eventually viewed her schools as a threat to the advance of fascism,11 there might be a historical corollary. Since Montessori's practice moves education away from the totalitarian ideology of authoritarian dictatorship, it also moves education toward the democratic ideal in that it fosters a greater respect for persons, which resembles the practice of citizens in a democracy. Translated into the politics of schooling, this would suggest a greater level of respect for students, whose membership in the school polity, by virtue of their engagement in work, entitles them to a greater level of participation in the decision making process.

Footnotes

7. Mussolini even became the President of the Montessori Society of Italy. See Elizabeth G. Hainstock, The Essential Montessori (New York: Plume, 1986), 16.

8. Ibid.

9. Ibid., 16-17.

10. Standing notes that Montessori herself realized that schools dedicated to developing a free personality could not survive under totalitarian rule. See E.M. Standing, Maria Montessori: Her Life and Work (New York: New American Library, 1962), 85.

11. William Boyd, From Locke To Montessori (London: George G. Harrap, 1914), 183, 195. He states, "there is none of Montessori's principles which is not to be found in more adequate form in Rousseau," 185.

http://www.ed.uiuc.edu/EPS/PES-Yearbook/1998/wasson_boyles.html

The fascists were interested at first, but then abandoned it because Montessori's schools created people who are too independently minded. There ya go. Why are we arguing? Y'know, the fascists tried a lot of things that they eventually abandoned. Atomic energy was one notable example.

As for the fact that Montessori schools seem to pop up in wealthy areas, I think that can be explained by the fact that most of them are private schools. Yes, private schools open in rich areas, some of which are Montessori schools because public schools are reluctant to use that method. Furthermore, most Montessori schools are for preschool children. Most preschools are private. I really, really doubt there's a conspiracy in the Montessori system to crank out fascist automatons. I mean, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and I don't see it. Even the article you cite here disputes the idea that the fascists were in bed with Montessori.

I'm going to bed. Oh, BTW, the Montessori school I went to was by no means upper class. It was right across the street from the dog track and a semi-abandoned power plant, next door to some pre-fabricated housing sales lots. Not very posh.

I told you what I found out. I have been sitting here and googling and researching and reading I find what I found. No doubt the article BOTH Confirms PART of my premise and Disproves a bunch of it. I was not "stupid" for asking the questions.


That what discovering truth is about. And that is all I wanted!


Look if I found out that say BMW used slave labor in WWII, isn't that at least worthy of looking into? This was Montesorri history was news to me and now 12 people on DU know that Montesorri had dealings and then a falling out with Mussolini and Hitler. Isn't that slightly interesting? is to me.. Maybe totally irrelevent


Not out to prove anything except what is. I fully admit I do not have all the the answers.

You have formulated an opinion based on YOUR limited experience and then attached your own completely bogus history to a woman who in no way ever supported Fascism or Natism and indeed suffered greatly, having to leave her native country, under Mussolini, as did many other 'dissenters'.

You made this statement:


'Facts are that Mussolini FUNDED AND TOOKED OVER MONTESORRI SCHOOLS FROM 1924 to the end of the WAR thats 20 YEARS!'

That is a patently false statement. Here is the truth about Montessori and Mussolini:

Montessori was exiled by Mussolini to India for the duration of WWII, mostly because she refused to compromise her principles and make the children into little soldiers. Montessori lived out the remainder of her life in the Netherlands

http://www.malaspina.org/home.asp?topic=./search/details&lastpage=./search/results&ID=387

A little googling would gotten you some real facts. As for funding, since most schools bearing her name (she did not own the schools), were private, here are a few of the people who helped fund them. They don't sound like Fascists or Nazis to me.

In 1909 the first Montessori Training Course was given. Private Montessori schools were established in Europe. Montessori travelled extensively, giving lectures and training courses in England, Spain, Australia, Holland and the Americas. Her method was endorsed and financially backed by people such as Alexander Graham Bell, Thomas Edison, Sigmund and Anna Freud, Ghandi and Piaget.

As for her relationship with Mussolini, this is a little info on that which sure doesn't cover 20 years of the love fest you implied existed between Montessori and Mussolini as 'fact'. Considering Italy was her native home, she sacrificed becoming an exile rather than give in to its Fascist leader:

In the early twenties, Montessori was appointed Government Inspector of Schools for Italy. In 1934 friction arose between Montessori and Mussolini and all her schools in Germany and Italy were closed by 1936.

Your ''til the end of WW11' is therefore, completely false.

Montessori left Italy for Spain and founded a special Teacher Training Institute in Barcelona. With the growing political tensions in that part of Europe in the thirties, she left Spain to live in Holland.

By 1939 she was in India, where she was interned throughout the war years, and developed the movement in the sub-continent. As a result, to this day India is a great centre for Montessori teaching. The war years caused Montessori to pursue a passionate quest for lasting peace through education. She was nominated three times for the Nobel Peace Prize and in 1950 she became the Italian delegate to UNESCO. Maria Montessori said, "Love is a gift to mankind which must be treasured and developed to the fullest possible extent, for it is this that unites each and every one of us, and only in this way can we bring about a good, caring, peaceful world."

http://www.montessoriint.com/maria.htm

I'm not sure why, if seeking 'facts' is your goal, you didn't simply google a little before posting such erroneous slander on a public board.


As for the school in Florida you mention, it is clearly NOT a Montessori school. Many people start schools who are unqualified to do so, and simply call them Montessori to attract students.

I am laughing at the idea that any true Montessori school would have one teacher for every four children!! No offense, but I have always had 30 children or more in my classes with only one assistant.

The fact that YOUR very expensive 'Montessori' school has so few children per teacher, tells me right away it was not a Montessori school. That is easily checked out if you want to give me the name of the school.

To operate a successful Montessori class, that adult/child ratio would be completely contrary to what Montessori is all about. As I said, my classes have always been large and for very good reasons. One of the reason for the larger classes is the mixed age groups. The very method of learning will be diminished by having such a student/teacher ratio.

One other reason for that ratio could be state regulations if the school is a pre-school. State requirements differ from state to state and in some cases require one ADULT (not necessarily a teacher) to every 5 children if the children are very young.

And $30,000 per child?? I will have to find that school! Most of our students have always been from working class families. Our tuition was always LOWER than the average pre-school as was the case with most of the schools I have been associated with.

Tuition for most of the schools I know, is no more than any other private pre-school or daycare, and in many cases, less. In India and other countries, Montessori is available to all children. Indias schools have very large classes and have excellent teacher training programs ~ way better than in this country.

The school you described is NOT a Montessori school but because the name Montessori was never copyrighted, anyone can and many HAVE started schools calling them Montessori which are in no way what they are advertised to be. I would really like to speak to the people who run the school you described.

Of course, if a school is in a wealthy area, the tuition will be more, and if it is in an inner city, which many are, it will be less. All depends on where the school is.

Many posters have provided you with FACTS. You have chosen to ignore them. If you are sincere that it is facts you want, I have provided a few ~ you may accept them or not, but your opinion won't change the facts.

Montessori was anti-fascism, anti-nazism and pro-education, peace and worked tirelessly to educate the poor and the disabled and because of her work, mentally disabled children throughout the world, are no longer considered ineducable as they were when she began her work.

I doubt that Ghandi would have supported a Fascist or Nazi sympathizer ~ I hope this helps dispel your concerns.

Yes 30000 and one student had one teacher, the other was in a group of about ten. There was a field trip to the Yucatan. There was carted in snow for Christmas the child who paid 10,000 got to play in it all alone for 10 minutes before the rest of the children. The girl's friends lived in mansions with helipads . The pressure of having friends with gobs of money was telling.Its like a whole nother level of competition and this for kids. This has been my experience with a school in Florida. Also the school went all the way up the 8th grade. I can't remeber the exact name but its in the Tampa area. Apparently these vary considerably nationwide. As you said I have seen tuitions much less as low as 7000 per year.

Regarding the Montesorri method, it sounds the best. Really it does. I was only asking a question. A valid question.

There is no doubt there was a close relationship between Montesorri and Mussolini from 1924 to 1936. So I am not crazy or wrong to want to look at this? No and eventually we have come to the truth regarding this history, my question is why do people on DU have to be so angry all the time. Excuse me for asking

And I'm sorry if I seemed angry ~ but I knew that Montessori was totally opposed to war and totalitarianism of any kind, so it was a bit disturbing to see your OP. It's certainly the first time I had ever seen anything like that regarding this woman.

As far as Mussolini and Montessori being 'close', I have never heard that either, although in the beginning many people, including British citizens who lived in Italy at the time, were socially close to him until they realized what he was about.

Since Montessori was well known for her work with children, it's very likely that Mussolini would have been interested in her ~ that the state supported schools at the time, doesn't mean she supported him in any way.

Eg, I completely oppose everything this administration is about, but if I work in a public school which now has to abide by his disastrous 'no child left behind' program, it doesn't mean I support him, does it? It just means I have no choice, but will try to do the best I can for the children, until it becomes obvious that I can no longer be an effective teacher under the existing laws.

I think it's obvious that she opposed him openly, which is why he closed her schools and exiled her ~ for that she deserves credit. I'm sure others simply remained silent.

There is no doubt in my mind that the school you describe is definitely not a Montessori school. That is the kind of operation that gets Montessori a bad name. It is unfortunate that it happens, but they cannot be forced to stop using the name Montessori. People have tried to prevent this before, but the name is a family name and her son refused to copyright it. That sounds like a very bad school, regardless of what it is called. Too bad they chose to demean the name Montessori, but it's happened before.

I don't think you are crazy for asking questions. I do wish that you had seen a really good Montessori school, though, rather than one that simply appropriated the name ~ and none of the principles.

Anyway, I do appreciate your willingness to get the facts ~ and thank you for your interest ~ it really is a great way for children to learn and really great to be a teacher who has the freedom to be creative.

I do wish that more public schools would adopt it. Some have but not that many. I understand your concern that all children be able to avail of a good education. It's difficult to get Montessori into the public schools. Most don't want to try anything different. So, it's not that Montessori teachers are not willing to teach in public schools, it's the public school system itself, unless there is a School Superintendant who is willing to experiment with something different. That's rare though ~ :-)

for first graders... meanwhile my nephew gets educated in a trailer. It just is a starting point to asking questions.


Like how much does it charge in your area. Is the Curriculum nationwide? Normal information like that. Maybe I should have kept the fascist connection to myself and just asked like I was interested in sending my own child. So I wouldnt' UPSET ANYONE.


Wouldn't want to upset anyone, simply trying to discover something about these schools that appear everywhere they sell Rolls Royces and Land Rovers.

I went to a Catholic School and wore UNIFORMS! so there were no CLASS ISSUES. But Montesorri is all about CLASS and ELITISM. At least from my experience and I expected a little more maturity than outrage at even asking !


People are such freaks about their children! How dare I call montesorri fascist? Well I'm not, I asking about it presentness and trying to learn more about it. Is that allowed?

"But Montesorri is all about CLASS and ELITISM."

You see, you will state you are just asking questions and then make a statement like that, which sets off the outrage.

Let me add my voice - I know a couple who run a Montessori school - a real one, in the middle of a quite lower middle class to middle class neighborhood, and gets its students mostly from this same neighborhood of average working folks. There is nothing classist or elitist about the school at all.

point us to the name/website of the $30,000 M school? I'd be very interested in seeing it.

Here in SF, the one M school I am familiar with is in a very working class neighborhood with very working class kids who attend it -- completely ethnically diverse, regular kids. Are there individual M schools who charged exorbitant fees? Probably. Does that make the Montessori method teaching fascist and elitist? Not a chance.

Having gone to a Catholic school like myself, you surely know that even within the diocese there was a huge economic difference between certain schools -- in San Francisco, going to Immaculate Conception Academy (with a poor/working class student body) was an entirely different experience than going to St. Rose or Star of the Sea, two of the wealthiest parishes and two of the most expensive Catholic schools in the City.

Using your own reasoning, you would say that all Catholic school education is about class and elitism, simply because St. Rose and Star charged 5-6 times what ICA did.

somewhere where this is the case. It is not the norm as many of who paid much much less can tell you.

You are not really seeking information, you are simply spewing garbage. Did you even think of googling American Montessori and getting real information. Even the link you had disputed your views and it's a pretty obscure paper.

Literally, for kids who came from broken homes and who lacked consistent structure in their lives.

on to the normal child. There is no doubt she was great and good and that still has no beating on the fact that she took alot of money from Mussolini who build the first montesorri schools!

So Mother Teresa took money from the mafia, right.

Fine, she broke with the fascists in 1931 but they ran her schools for 10 more years! She was a fine person and Italy honored her by putting her on the 1000 lira note in 1952. So she obvious is beloved and a hero in Italy.

This is probably the wrong set of people to ask about this obscure bit of history. Noone realy seems that interested anyway. Most people are downright angry.

I'm interested in her because early childhood development is one of my loves. I'm a Piagetian and Brunerian. ... never had the chance to see M schools in action. :~~< What's sparking your interest in pursuing this?

I actually researched the Montessori method and theory before sending my daughter to a M preschool. I also had to study it in college in my education classes. Everything, and I mean everything, I ever read said that the goal of the Montessori educational method is to produce a free-thinking independent child. How is that fascist?

She was in Italy during a bad time, and maybe she made some bad assumptions, but the theory and the method (the actual practice of the theory) are both in complete opposition to fascism.

Maybe you might be better off researching Dewey and why our nation chose his theory and method over Montessori's. If anything, our chosen schooling method is far more fascist and disturbing.

It's not that I'm not interesting in your theory: it's that I'm disturbed by how you're defending your theory based on a logical fallacy with angry attacks. People have posted the info you've asked for, and you haven't responded to those posts very much. Are you the one more interested in an argument?

who in one post defames both Montessori and Mother Teresa.

You are either a VERY bad researcher or have an agenda

In either case, nothing we tell you will from real knowledge will influence your ideology driven effort. I hope this is not for school - as you seem incapable of being impartial.

My parents sent me to it because it was one of the best preschools you could go to, and the only one where students could learn from non-white, non-Western, non-Christian instructors, who were interested in not what kids test scores said, but in how they learned best.

that we didn't have one available.
My granddaughter will go to one however.
A friend of mine's child went to Montessori could tell you every single country in Africa when he was 4.
I strongly believe that this works.

The emphasis is on allowing the child to learn through direct hands-on, sensory experience, according to his developmental level and interest. The classical Montessori materials do have a method of use and a sequence of steps, but these not imposed from above, only suggested.

Maria Montessori may have lived and been influential at that time but there's nothing fascistic in Montessori schools.

I have said before they are great schools. Why wouldn't they be.. being so expensive they had better be great. In fact there success proves they are great. Does this have ANYTHING to do with what I'm suggesting?


England has Eton..

AMerica has Montesorri..


These are elite schools can we agree on that?

Now. I wana know who owns them, who goes to them. Correlate to Property values. Extrapolate on the effect on Public education and perhaps come to soem conclusions.

So questions:

What kind of student went there. What were parents like? Compare to public schooIs. How much does it costs. What is the corporate structure. Compare curriculim of Modern Montesorri school to 1930's Mussolini Run Fascist schools. Stuff like that. I wish I spoke Italian.

Montessori named schools. She did not own them, btw.

And no, they are not 'elite', any more than some public schools, eg, are for the elite. Such as the public schools where I now live, in Southampton, are pretty elite compared to the Montessori School I taught in before moving to this area, which was anything BUT elite!!

Who owns them? Most often they are started by parents who form a board of directors and hire teachers ~ and most often are not 'owned' by anyone, being that many are non-profit with a changing board of directors.

What kind of student goes there? All kinds, just like public schools or any other private school. Black, white, poor, middle class, rich, Christian, Muslim, Jews, atheists.

Your last statement is completely false, there were never 'Mussolini run Fascist Montessori Schools'. Mussolini closed Montessori schools and exiled Montessori herself, as you will see in my above post.

As far as speaking Italian, you can always learn, no need to just wish.

The Government Schools in the US are funded by your State - and as Bush is head of your State, does that mean that the publicly funded Schools are Bush's schools. (Horror of horrors!)

Fascism and Montessori are poles apart.

The logic and philosophy of Montessori education is that "The Child is the Father of Man".

That means every child is a whole entity and learns entirely at his/her pace. Only the tools are provided. It uses the natural good sense of the child and tries not to distort it.

Toys, for instance are virtually taboo in Montessori education or the life of a child being educated in the Montessori system. A child does not need a toy. However, it becomes difficult for parents to follow this regime, and the child gets corrupted in the process, destroying the very basis of the education.

Rather life experiences are paramount. A broom, a cleaning rag are the tools (and toys?) that are given the child - would that not make the child a socialist or communist rather than a fascist or capitalist. Learning of maths is quite unique as well as touch and feel become important aspects of the learning process, even for a subject like maths!

Those who worked in, taught in or been helpers in Montessori schools know that there is no such thing as a set curriculum for children in Montessori schools. All you do is keep the tools available for them and the child discovers them, uses them till he / she, by natural instinct, perfects himself / herself with them and then moves on to the next stage of development.

Separate political implications from the education implications. Although Montessori was interned in India during the war, she was allowed to do her research and teaching and this is why India has many Montessori based schools. She learnt a tremendous amount from the Indian education system and this was incorporated into her system.

When my wife was studying Montessori, she visited India and visited the Public, Government and Montessori schools and the children of Montessori schools, which the poorest of the lot were actually head and shoulders above their counterparts of the same age.

The closest to the Montessori system was a school in Kottayam, Kerala, run by Arundhati Roy's mother, Mary Roy, who was also interviewed by my wife and she inspected the school, and that was for the elite. It neared the excellence of the Montessori system. But not quite!!

It is probably impossible to bring up a child truly in the Montessori fashion as much is expected out of the parent who has to understand the Montessori system. I could give you a lecture on these, not because I am a Montessori proponent or advocate, but when my wife did her studies, she does not type, so she dictated the parts and I typed - so I know the system through and through. She got 98% for her intensive studies! Many have asked for me to put up her thorough work, but I have not done so. Obviously, I am not a product of the Montessori system! :-)

http://koti.netplaza.fi/~amatthan/montessoribk.html

You have decided that Montessori schools are only for the ultra-rich and are training the children of the ultra-rich. (England has Eton, America has Montessori).

Visit some Montessori schools, like the public magnet here in Kalamazoo, and you will see that your argument doesn't carry its own weight.

When I taught in Cleveland, the ultra-rich mostly sent their kids to some extremely expensive private schools, not a single one of which was a Montessori school. Not one. The Montessori schools mostly taught the middle class and poor, from what I saw.

You most likely won't find the info on curriculum and theory on-line. I know my daughter's school had a library for parents, and there were many books on the history and method of Montessori in my education department's library at my college. You should try looking at a local college or university's library.

I went to Head Start and kindergarten in a Montessori school. Sure the education was elite. I will concede that. I could read, write (even in cursive), do simply math, and tell you why Reagan was a bad man before first grade thanks to the education I had. The neighborhood and the economic backgrounds most of us came from though were not elite. We're talking about a neighborhood with crack houses where the most elite students were just high enough over the poverty line that they weren't on welfare but their parents both had jobs and they still lived pay check to paycheck.

If you really want to know what Mussolini did to the school system in Italy there are a number of books such as Believe, Obey, and Fight on the subject. The fascists only cared about education as a tool to brain wash and indoctrinate others into their beliefs. Any and every school model in Italy in that era was exploited by them but that doesn't mean they had an effect on Montessori schools. The curriculum and the way it was presented is completely different.

They are not even near the same cost range as elite private schools: compare and contrast:

One (randomly chosen) of the upper class private schools:
http://www.gsbschool.org/

Our local Montessori school - started by families with kids whose parents liked the concepts:

http://www.mch-morristown.org/faq.htm

My son went to a Montessori school for pre-school and kindergarten. It is run by a couple who are now good friends of ours. At the school, my son learned to read by age 4 and do 4th grade level math. He also learned more about world geography in one year than most kids learn from K-12.

They were also taught the virtues of peace and equality. They learned manners and dancing.

The lessons my son learned at his Montessori school will stay with him through his life. It is true that many of the kids who are in the gifted student program in the public schools here are Montessori alumni, my son included. We stretched to pay the tuition because we felt it was giving him the best start.

You said:

"Having experienced these schools I believe they promote elite-worship, money-worship and self aggrandizement.

This is patently ridiculous, or your Montessori schools were totally different than my son's. I researched Montessori -- it is all about children learning at their own pace and using their own creativity and individuality -- what's Neocon about that? Money worship? How? Cite some facts here. Self-aggrandizement? When and Where?

We joke now that the Montessori kids are lousy at sports because they learned so much about manners and giving that they don't go after the soccer ball when an opponent gets it.

You also said:

"These schools act as a corrosive effect on our public schools and increases the difference between the haves and the have-nots."

Again, ridiculous. All kids should get a bad education because some do? I CHOSE to pay the tuition and send my son to a Montessori school. Yes, there are many families who do not have that financial choice. But shouldn't we be working to improve public schools so that all children can get the best possible education? I won't settle for substandard if I don't have to. This is my children's life and future we're talking about.

By the way, my husband is a public school teacher.

on education.I had 3 kids who went to a Montessouri school that went from pre-school to 6 th grade, although my kids didn't go all those years. The teachers and administrators were, as far as I could tell, liberals.

What the school did do differently than public school was:
- a very large amount of the instruction was a child working independently on a task that was at their personal level getting help and guidance from the teacher or aide as needed. This in a pleasant room where each kid started the day with a list of things they were suppose to do. When they weren't in group lessons (think regular school), they took their list - chose what to do next, got the materials, took a small rug, chose where to put it and started working. For those who needed more structure, the teacher would push them from task to task

- They had some standard tools to teach things. In math, the kids had both physical tools that let them see what they were doing and little rhymes to help then remember their math tables. (easy example: when adding each column had different color "units" - to add 234 to 678 - they would put out 2(100) 3(10) 4 (1) and 6(100) 7(10) and 8(1). They then combined the like objects - for any type of unit with more than 10 objects, they traded 10 objects for one of the next higher unit.)
tedious, yes - but it gave them a very real sense of what they were doing. They abandoned the materials when they were comfortable doing so. One boy in my daughter's kindergarten class was very competently doing multiplication and division and proudly showed all of us.

In beginning reading, they had a series of their own books - that the kids used after learning the consonant sounds. The first book had only words one sylable long with the short a. Each book adds one new vowal sound. (They do use about 10 words lihe the that the kids learn by sight.)

They start teaching the continents in pre-school (they even have a song). They have globes and maps everywhere - all using exactly the same colors for the continents. Doesn't sound important, but apparently the consistency lets kids not be distracted by irrelevent differences. My kids were shocked in high school that there were kids who had no idea where anything was - and this was in excellent high schools.

All these things are based on her philosopies - one of which was a respect for the individual child.

That she was a successfull educator in Italy at the time of a fascist doesn't make her a fascist anymore than any of us are fascists because Bush is in power.

Maria Montessori was a genius. Many of the most successful reforms (like hands-on learning) we have experienced in education have been rooted in Montessori philosophy.

I obviously disagree with you. If every school was a Montessori school, our kids would be so much better off.

They are magnets located in struggling areas of the city. There is a competitive lottery for attendance weighted toward those who live in the immediate area.

I know many parents who send their children to Montessori. They are uniformly the most intelligent, progressive parents I know. I may be sending my own daughter to a Montessori school next year. I have not attended the open house yet, or taken part in the lottery, so we shall see. But I am very excited for the opportunity to learn more about the school.

Another thing to note, "Montessori" is not a franchise. Anyone can call themselves a Montessori school, even if they do not adhere to Montessori principles. So there is no Montessori monolith out to destroy public education.

Maybe there are so many Montessori schools because it is a better way to educate children that the rote learning, industrial model?

Here is a very detailed post by one of our members about Montessori in the Parenting Group. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=238x2220

It would seem to me that the American Montessori movement traces its roots back to Montessori's post-exile publications and work. There's really not a direct link between the Italian educational establishment in the high-water period of fascism and the Montessori schools here today.

Much of the allure of Montessori is not so much the philosophy itself as much as it's really the only secular movement in private education. If you don't want a religious school, but you don't want a public school, that's where your kid's most likely to go.

So of course most of the kids there are there for elitist reasons. And if you get a critical mass of privileged students, especially unchecked by some levelling philosophy like that of Social Gospel Christianity which died about a generation ago, the subculture sends off messages and values completely independent from the educational philosophy of the school. The subculture of many elite Friends (Quaker) schools isn't exactly concordant with the mission and beliefs of the Friends. Having attended public school for a year in Barrington, IL, I can tell you snobbery and elitism can flourish in public schools as well; you just need to put enough rich kids together and keep the poor ones out or marginalized.

fascist? :rofl:

Good luck in proving your theory. :)