Murtha's best point of all of this is so well said:

Blue_Roses

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Sat Nov-19-05 01:44 AM
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Murtha's best point of all of this is so well said:

"how can the Iraqi's know freedom until we leave"? (paraphrasing here) this is such a profound statement. As long as we are there, Iraqi's will never stand up for themselves. I think this is what Murtha meant by being close by to help if needed. HOWEVER, it's time they stand on their own.

BUT remember, Cheney has a different plan. He wants ALL of mideastern oil for his "companies". Can't forget their REAL reason for this war and why they continue to fight to stay.

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TahitiNut

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Sat Nov-19-05 01:54 AM
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1. Would people in this country NOT fight an occupying army??

It just blows me away that people are so numbed by the boob tube and corrupted by a sense of privilege that they cannot equate themselves to an Iraqi. Are the people in this country so stupid and sociopathic that they cannot imagine telling some foreign Army that "We'd rather do it ourselves! Get out!"?

I never imagined that I'd be so ashamed of my own country - from December 2000 to now. There's something VERY seriously wrong with our "culture" -- and it just ain't gonna get better in my lifetime.

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Erika

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Sat Nov-19-05 01:54 AM
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2. The Iraqis need to stand on their own feet or fall

Cheney, and his oil buddies, be damned.

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blue neen

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Sat Nov-19-05 01:54 AM
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3. And as Murtha so astutely pointed out,

Oil production is down. Our soldiers are dying for Cheney's failures.

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tulsakatz

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Sat Nov-19-05 01:55 AM
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4. if we're going to stay there until they're ready........

....they have no reason, no motivation to do any more than they're doing now!!

If they know we're leaving at some point, at least they know they have a reason to take a larger role in their security.

And even if you do believe that the Iraqis will take a larger role, what progress have they made so far? For instance, what have they accomplished for themselves.........say, in the past year? What proof do we have that they are trying to build a larger security force?

'When they stand up, we'll stand down' is not a strategy, it's a sound byte! We should expect more from our govt and so should the Iraqis!!

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Kagemusha

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Sat Nov-19-05 02:02 AM
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5. I think the Iraqis will fall on their own.

I also think that a lot of Americans are fine with that. Their government is now attempting to show how wise it is by ignoring the people.

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Blue_Roses

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Sat Nov-19-05 02:09 AM
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6. No, they are not fine with Iraqis

Edited on Sat Nov-19-05 02:10 AM by Blue_Roses

"falling on their own". What utter bullshit. You obviously didn't read or hear the speech I am talking about. Until them, this conversation is over--with you.

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MissMarple

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Sat Nov-19-05 02:45 AM
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7. When he said that, I thought we have them on permanent welfare.

The Republicans want to keep the Iraqis in a state of perpetual welfare, recipients of our "largesse". Now how unconservative is that?

The Democrats are becoming recognized as the party of fiscal responsibility, small government, support for the military, and ...gasp...moral rectitude.

Not that they haven't been...

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