You tell me WHY, if you can, one soldier ever had to die in Iraq

Anyone?

Families in the US are torn apart over a country that was not invading or attacking us. A country that was contained.

Sure saddam sucked, glad he is gone myself. And hell I am glad Iraq might be a better place.

But WHY us? Why US soldiers? Why did we have to die for their 'freedom' when they were not willing to do it for themselves (and so on)?

Our children died in a foreign land for no real good reason. This is not a slam on * either - it is a slam on all those who allowed it to happen (repugs, democrats, et al).

I support our troops. I want them safe and sound. My idea of support is keeping them out of the way of bullets ns bombs. The rethug view of support is watching them die for something so we can kick ass as though this was all a football game. Fuck you.

faulting * to me is a whitewash - many were/are complicit in this affair. * made it go all out in a war, but others (so called dems) were/are just as guilty.

Screw you all. OUR troops, OUR kids, deserved better than to be ripped from their homes to die because you did not have the backbone to stand. Don't dare bitch about * and crew unless you were one of the ones who made a stand against this crap.

Our men and women in the armed forces gave up part of their lives to serve - they DEPENDED on YOU to make sure that the time they gave in the services was well spent and for the good of all.

YOU let them down, hell I feel *I* let them down too - and I am damn sorry for not doing more to support you and get you home.

Rant over because if I don't stop now I won't stop for hours. Thank you folks for the service you have done our country. I am SORRY, very sorry, we sent you to hell to live and die in and we did not fight harder for you. I am to blame myself for my lack of fighting this war. I apologize - just know that we love you all and wish you to be home safe and sound.

plainly put....Oil period.


:dem:

and why were they able to use their greed to do this??

names though that have benefited from this illegal war. Where does one begin?

either R or D, and starts looking at truth through objective eyes.

We start by holding those we all elected responsible. And on here, a democrat board, we look at our leaders and give them hell (we expect as much from the R assholes).

I support our ideals - but that does not mean I support some dumbass with a D after their name just because they have a D.

I don't care what freeptards think, or anyone else. This is our forum where we examine what our people are doing, and when they do wrong (or less than we need) I damn well want em called on it.

"War is a Racket," written by Smedley D. Butler, was published in 1935. I think it has the answers you seek:

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.html

Perhaps that is what I want to know?

I don't care about labels (D or R or I). Actions speak louder than letters to me.

you can ask the people of Cambodia what it's like when we do nothing. There's a few million without parents, siblings and so on. Or ask the people of Ehtiopia what it's like when we don't do anything or the people of Rwanda, that is the ones still alive. Between the two countries you can count hundreds of thousands of dead by way of inaction on our part. If you want people to live in civility then sometimes you have to be willing to be the one to die for it. Not all people can rise up against their leaders. It's a matter of either we start acting on the principles we espouse or we can shut down the entire State Department and recall the entire diplomatic corps and all the rest. Why bother to talk about wanting better for others if the second it means having to do more than talk we turn tail and run?

I dig what you are saying. I am all for making life better for others, I try to do that daily here.

Saddam sucked ass, and I am glad he is gone - and our troops went in and did a fine job. Why they are staying is another matter. And why only there in Iraq versus say china?

I used to be a 'freeper' and I have a ton of info from clinton years about how bad iraq was, chemical weapons, and so on. I don't blame just one administration for the mess things are.

But how has the loss of lives of our fellow americans over there helped save us? 9/11 was a failure of intelligence - the same intelligence that led us to no real WMD in Iraq.

Over 2000 americans killed, many more wounded, and how exactly has that helped us here???

the Chinese have been ruled for over two thousand years by the rules of conduct laid down by Confuscian philosophy. They just bow to their leaders. Many Chinese don't get it that you even can stand up to your rulers. There's never been a Chinese equivalent to John Locke, Voltaire or David Hume, forget an equivalent to Emerson. Iraq has had all sorts of freethinkers and had philsophers 1400 years ago writing about free will and the like. Iraq should by all rights not be what it is, it after all can lay claim to what amounts to the first university ever. And it got that way thanks to who was in charge. Also it isn't just Iraq, just that Iraq happened to be the biggest and easiest target. Well easiest to sell, easiest to handle could well be some place like Chad or the Sudan. The Sudan has been in the toilet for 20 years and most of the world can't even be bothered to notice.

To me it was a calculated risk - less loss, and more gain. Loss is still loss - and that is what irks me to some extent.

The politicians sent someone else's kids to die, to be maimed. They chose an easier target. We did FINE without invading there in the 90's all out. Saddam was contained. His OWN people (ie Iraqi's) were not willing to die to liberate themselves - so why should we be willing to die to do the same??

the Kurds had a standing military of their own that was very willing to die. If anyone would've given them some funds and weapons to do things. As it is they barely could pay payroll and had old equipment. Also there were a few assasination attempts on Saddam, and his sons. None worked but people tried. Many, even among the Sunnis who allegedly supported Saddam, would've risen up against him. Many did. Most were executed, the unlucky ones got raped, tortured and so on. At the end of the day, he had to go. He should've gone ages ago but he was around still. There was no excuse for leaving him in charge. Just as there is no excuse for allowing Pol Pot to die an old man never facing the charges of genocide he should've faced. No excuse for letting him kill a third of the Cambodian population. No excuse for allowing Idi Amin to do what he did. And on it goes. Not doing anything to stop wrong is the same as committing it.

when Bush said we were going to invade Iraq to help the Iraqis. All I heard then was WMD, 9-11, "terra" -- all of which I knew was bullshit -- I marched in the streets against this travesty. Tens of thousands of dead Iraqi civilians later, the living Iraqis are worse off now than they were pre-invasion.

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

decide to be the greatest known presitude in history of the world.

Oh well bush does what bush do ....... failure :rofl: .... the goes the US reserve, there goes you first world status, there goes you peace, there goes Lady Liberty.

Both repeated the lies, both kept up the pressure.

Both parties have failed the troops IMHO. These are our people, fellow Americans, our brothers and sisters. And they were betrayed by lies and sent to die and be maimed. How has this served our national security?

They died and were harmed for what?

he didnt do the ultimate blown job but bush sure did :rofl:

He and Gore believed Saddam was evil, had his last chance, that he had WMD's, and so on. The same shit, different day, crap we hear now.

but he sure did not get a hard on to go in like the chimp did.
What the f*** when you get a piggy for a brain.
End up having to swallow lots of hogwash.

We the people still run this place where were we during this, were we on the phone or computers to our leadership, or were we busy so we could not save our childrens lives? As a democratic country we have no one to blame but ourselves.... * did his part, did every repug steal his election have we been hood winked into a dictatorship while I was napping??? I am very sorry I have been re miss in doing as much as humanly possible to bring them home ..but no more. my contact with the top is daily and to the point... If you have words and no actions then you are part of the problem and not the solution.... good points straight story..... Rant on

Many of us were on the phones, calling and emailing our leaders to stay out of the war. We then went out and campaigned like hell for the ones who would get us out once we were in.

"better place"? Doesn't sound like it to me. :shrug: Who says they weren't/aren't willing to die for their freedoms? "Screw us all?" :wtf: Don't include me in your broad brush blame game! What did you expect us everyday citizens to do, other than what we did do, ie protest, LTTE, email congress, etc? We did all we could do!

All here did a fine job.

But those we elected...well they let us down.

ALL could have done better - myself as well.

:blush:

Shows we are still somewhat Human on the whole subject.

WE here knew better, why is it that people we pay a lot of money to and give a lot of power to did not know???

Scary thing is - I think they did know. And that is where the whole thing gets real freaky/scary to me....

beyond my comprehension, however, I am not in a position to weigh in on the intelligence they were or weren't given. I think many of them regret their decisions, which some here feel, is too little, too late. Maybe they were trying to protect us, imagine if the intelligence was correct/sound and they didn't vote to give bush** the power to take out Saddam and we were attack? Wait, I can't justify their reasoning, try as I might. Only they can to that. But if they admit they were wrong and offer a solution to get our troops out, I will listen to them and back them up. It's all they and we can do, at this point.

not do more.

We did what we could - and we elected others to use their power to stop such things. I am guessing many did less because of political maneuvering and politics in general.

Do the right thing, and stand up.

bullet.Its about the vast oilfields in Iraq.Do the math,Iraq has 212
billion bb ls. of known reserves times lets say,50.00 bucks a bbl. h'm
over 1 trillion US dollars (helps keep the dollar safe) then Iraq has
half the country unexplored hence the secret Energy Task Force meetings with dick cheney back in March 2001.h'm but how to "SHAPE PUBLIC OPINION" and have Americans support a war hence 911.Remember it
was james baker III who suggested America needs a New Pearl Harbor in
order to advance PNAC..
Its no stretch to believe our govt was behind 911.Yes I favor LIHOP
thats because evidence supports that assertion but MIHOP is lacking
crucial documents or a whistle blower.Nevertheless the cold calculated
murders of 911 are coming back to haunt this bush crime family is subtle ways,DSM,CIA agent outed,libby indictments,abramoff,missing Iraqi billions,hugh deficits,Cindy Sheehan,low poll numbers.Feel free
to add what I missed....

But the dems let us down as a party in this whole mess. Not all of course, but enough to piss me off right now.

How is it that we small folk here on an internet message board could see the truth while they make excuses as to why they voted how they did?

all that I have come up with is they had to know, they just chose to ignore it considering how knowledgeable I am on many things and what they are supposed to be on many things...

There is just no other excuse I can see other than that.

NOW they are trying to make a stand and say, vote for me, I oppose the war and was wrong (et al).

So what are they willing to sacrifice for their beliefs? Our troops are willing to give their very lives, and yet our politicians want to play it safe for their careers?

Screw em.

us (you know: "The extreme-left on the Internet" blah blah blah Ha Ha Ha)?

TRILLIONS of "fresh" & (self-awarded) almost TAX-FREE gross profits vs. the ("Ha Ha Ha! You're not serious!") 'extreme-left' (their words, not mine) on the Blogs?

Guess who's makin' mo' money...

In the Nov 2002 elections all House seats were on the chopping block
had the House Dems vote no they'ed look unpatriotic sort of like
walking the "Patriotic Plank".The Senate Dems and more than half voted no maybe they were up for re-election and needed to vote no although in their heart they might have wanted more to vote no just
couldn't but for sure if all our congressional leaders were privvy to those DOWNIG STREET MEMO'S leaked earlier this year describing the cold calculation of deceptions,forged documents secret attacks against
Saddam's installations goading Saddam to shoot us down so we can start a war even before the 2002 elections.
Next election will be different.I predict a landslide victory in both
Houses even with Diabolitical Deibold the mood of the country has changed and when more than 62% (still growing)of Americans dissatisified the gop's days are numbered.
Thanks for the feedback

:hi: :hi: :thumbsup:

Sacrifice now for more later, or play 'conservative' now and look at the position as it is and do the 'right' move.

Problem to me is - the REAL sacrifice was our troops and their lives, while the politicians played games.

have to live with. I cried this morning on MTP when Murtha was describing the condition of some of these kids. YOU KNOW they will get lousy VA benefits, will live a lousy life and no one will care
(except their family!)

The myth is that our leaders know. We believe they are smarter, wiser and all-knowing. When in reality they are venal, greedy and sometimes stupid men. We listen to their rhetoric and think it is truth. Nearly always it is lies. We listen to high-blown phrases, liberty, justice and equality, when those who lead us believe in just the opposite.

We are naive, that is why we die.

Its as simple as that. With a switch to the euro being batted about and the possibility of peak oil it was necessary to secure a middle east source of oil that our corporations have direct control over to be used by the US. It can even exclusively by us when it someday comes to that as the supply continues to decline.