I just watched "Crash"

and want to check on DU's view of racism in the US via an anonymous poll. The question is - "What is the state of racism in the US?" Pick the choice that best fits your view.

claim that racism was now reversed and it was the white man that is now being discriminated against.

That alone is proof that racism is alive and well.

One easy answer is to ask whether the person would rather be black; that usually sets them back.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

blacks can be racist against whites. Your friend is probably exagerating, but it does exist in reverse racism.

Actually his statement was aimed at affirmative action and he was claiming that affirmative action was making it harder for white people to get jobs because they were now hiring qualified black people too. He also thought that the civil rights act protected the rights of blacks while limiting the rights of whites.

Basically the statement that was made that any person, organization, or company should have the right to discriminate as they see fit and any government action to the contrary was an elimination of white rights.

All I did was ask him how his Amway (scamway) business was doing and he shut up real quick. (Over 20,000 more in debt then when he started and according to him he should of been retired about 2 years ago.)

it depends on how it is implemented. I have personally seen a minority who is less qualified and in some cases not qualified for a promotion promoted due to a quota, while a nonminority who is highly qualified gets passed over. There are only so many instances of this that a person can endure without becoming angry with the AA system in general. I'm sure there are many places where it is run fairly, but when it is abused it can be reverse discrimination. I think that is where your friend was coming from.

and are shown how to do the job. I have seen blacks that are qualified to do the job who have advanced degrees and don't get the job and these persons are presented well,have fit all qualifications. In some cases, I have seen family and friends that are less qualified because someone is doing someone a favor, or its the who you know syndrome.

that phrase conflates matters. To me, true racism involves institutional power. While individual blacks may be prejudiced against whites (a position which I in no way support), they are rarely in a position to deny a white person a job, or a place to live, etc; since most positions of power in this country are still held by Caucasians. For true "reverse racism" to occur, we would need to have widespread studies and anecdotal evidence of minorities denying whites jobs, housing, and other necessities - as we have of whites denying minorities these things.

and it's not a rare thing. Here in Memphis it's very common and the "reverse racism" is a fact. Not all minorities practice this but it does occur. I've seen it myself.

care to cite some statistics? Otherwise, I would be hard pressed to believe you. I just don't see these types of things, and I would imagine that if such studies existed, the right wing would be publicizing them day in and day out. But, hey, if you can prove me wrong, I'll modify my position.

here it's pretty well split. I don't care if you don't believe me. I live in a diverse city where the majority, about 60%, of people are black. Minorities have education and can achieve positiions of power, this sort of thing happens in a diverse city. Where you live it may be a different story, but don't think for a minute that white people still run everything. For the record, I'm not white.

You don't have any statistics to back you up. And, really, nice try at twisting my words around. For the record, I'm not white either (I'm one of those minorities with education you seem to think I am unaware of) and I grew up in Chicago - diverse enough for you?

internet statistic. If you live your life by statistics someone gives you on the internet, I pity you.

Please. You are so intent on caricaturing me that I see no point in continuing this dialogue. Peace.

we should get rid of AA nationwide? Sorry, that's simply not rational. AA is not racism. Some people perceive it that way, but that doesn't make it so.

The point of the matter is no matter how many jobs a minority MAY take from a white person they are still the freaking minority. Ask all those poor people who lost jobs to the unqualified minority (Your opinion not mine) if they would be willing to become a minority for the day. I wonder how many white people would be willing to become the 12% in this country? You wont get many people saying they want to become the minority because deep down inside most people know being the minority is not easy. If it were easy and fair there wouldn't be such a big difference in income, poverty and race in this country. Just because there are black people in higher positions doesn't make black people better off. So you've personally seen A, B and C from Memphis so what. Where the hell are your stats and studies on reverse racism and unqualified minorities taking jobs they are not qualified for? Why are you measuring the success of all black people on the success of a few black people in high power? There is this little thing called white privilege why don't you go google it. While your at it google : Death penalty rate, poverty rate, high school graduate rate, median household rate,unemployment rate, mortality rate and infant mortality rate for minorities vs whites.


I tell you what try being a minority for a day preferably black. With all you whining about Affirmative Action and reverse racism ,based on personal experience mind you, I'm willing to bet you wouldn't last an hour being black.

By the way I am a minority. Of two candidates I spoke of, the white candidate was more qualified on hard skills, obviously the minority candidate may have knocked the interview out of the park. This still doesn't change the perception of the people under him that he got the job based on AA. This creates a lack of respect with this workers and they think he's a "token". I also think you're stereotyping that all minorities are living in poverty, this is not the case and these are the people I speak of, college educated people that are doing well. If you want statistics, go ahead and google them, but it doesn't make them relevant to the situation I speak of.

While it may be correct to state that "Blacks can be racist against whites" (emphasis mine), in practice, those few who are actually racist against whites are racist in reaction to white racism.

The difference is essential: white racism is irrational and has no basis in fact; it stems from fear, dominance, insanity, ignorance, any number of factors unrelated to how white people have actually been treated by Black people, historically. This is why you don't very often see African-Americans burning crosses on white people's lawns, or marching around in sheets shouting about race mixing, or lynching white people in angry mobs, etc. If Blacks were just as racist as whites, then you might see such things. Lucky for us white folks they're not, eh? :sarcasm:

racism on any level sickens me. I think you analogies are a bit farfetched. It's not about having a reverse Klan, it's about denying someone an opportunity because of the color of their skin.

What does that have to do with racism among African-Americans? That's a totally different topic. I'm assuming you're not claiming that we have affirmative action so that African-Americans can implement their racist agenda. :eyes:

Part of my point, which you don't appear to understand, is that even if you've seen what you think is racism being displayed by one individual Black person, there is still no racism either culturally or institutionally among Blacks. There may be resentment, or even hatred, yes, but that's not racism, that's a logical reaction to the facts.

The point is that afirmative action creates antimosity to those that are negativly affected by the policy. Those that are victems of this feel that it is racism that they are not considered for the jobs. Racism and affirmative action go hand in hand, think about it.

Constructive criticism: Don't talk down to people to attempt to get your point across.:)

your reply wasn't computing for me, it seemed off topic, as does this one.

You are talking about two entirely different things. You said earlier that Blacks are racist; I'm arguing against that point. But what it appears you're really talking about is that some whites perceive affirmative action as racist, and that for that reason we should have affirmative action? That's the worst argument against AA I've ever heard, I have to tell you. I mean, middle class people are deprived of tax money so that homeless people can be housed; should we not therefore spend tax money housing homeless people? Isn't that discrimination against middle class people?

And so what are these "incidents" you've seen? Are you in a position to know with 100% certainty that a white person was passed over for a job in favor of an unqualified person of color?

One thing I find striking is all these people who personally know a qualified white candidate who was "passed over" for a "less qualified" minority candidate. How were they in a position to know the qualifications of both candidates? Were they involved in the hiring process, so they would have access to both people's applications, letters of reference, etc?

Doubtful. More likely, they only know their white friend's side of the story. How is that person in a position to know the qualifications of the person who got hired over them? How are they privy to how the decision was made?

That's why statistics and carefully conducted studies are the only measure I trust in these matters.

"Tales of Reverse Racism" is always a book full of anecdotes and perceptions, never an actual history.

If you're content to sit in your lilly white tower, fine I don't judge you, but don't act like you know the situation everywhere.

I am usually the ONLY white person at work and I find that I take some real flak on occasion, but usually once the people giving me the flak realize that I am not a racist ass they chill out.

I can't say I don't get really angry when I get treated poorly based on my race and some people's misconceptions, but I just chaulk it up to getting blow back for the bad behavior of some of the people that came before me.

I just try to be the best person I can be and I hope for the best in regards to racial problems--it's still a friggin mess IMO (Katrina proved that)

it's tough to blame minorities for the resentment because of the action of some whites that treated them bad previously.

I've been looking for a full-time job for 8 months now, and am almost certain that my lack of success has nothing to do with the fact that I am a white male.

I know how this poll would turn out over in Limpballs-land. But DUers live in the real world.

where a majority of them felt this way.

We somehow managed to raise two smart, wordly, liberal daughters during the Limpballs Years. It's hard work getting the truth through all the RW bullshit these days.

As well as 'reverse sexism' and such.

It doesn't seem prevalent because of prevailing thought. But let me ask you seriously...

What do you think would happen if someone started a cable channel called "White Entertainment Television" (Yep... 'WET')?

Held "White Entertainment Awards"?

The public outrage would be over the top. And meanwhile there's nothing wrong with having "Black Entertainment" TV ?

No, there isn't anything wrong with it, it's simply that we have been so conditioned to believe that 'racism' is always a white person treating a non-white person as an inferior.

The fact is there is plenty of intolerance, and if we want to get rid of all of it, we have to recognize all of it.

I'm all for procreative racial deconstruction myself. I give us another 100 years and the issue of racism will be something people will have a hard time even understanding.

They don't need to start WET because we already have WET, it's called Cable news. Minorities are not represented on Cable news as they should be. Prime example was the Lacey Peterson case we all know who Lacey Peterson is. All that while a pregnant Latino women in California went missing along with her toddler son but you didn't hear much about that. Natalie Holloway, now that is hot news right now but what about Tamika Huston. Tamika's mother has tried for months to get the media to focus attention on her daughter with no luck. Those two are just a few examples there are many more. That right there is blatant racism and they shove it in our faces with no regard whatsoever. The only time black people make the news is if they raped someone, murdered someone, or robbed a bank.
So yes I do see a need for BET. Put some balance in the news and maybe black people wouldn't see the need to have their own news network. Our lives are just as valuable as the next but apparently the white news community does not think so.

But my point was you can't call something 'White Entertainment Television', while it's perfectly acceptable to have a 'BET'.
Perhaps for the very reason you cite. It may be that the answer to racism is more racism... er, I mean 'exclusion'. Seriously.

The bottom line is that racism is not exclusive to any group, prevalent yes, but not exclusive.

you should. Well-cast, written by Paul Haggis (EZ Streets, Due South), marvelously acted, and amazingly even-handed. Think you couldn't dislike Sandra Bullock?

it amounted to a chorus of people beating you over the head with a hammer for two hours while screaming, "Gosh, racism sure is bad isn't it? And it's so insidious! Right?!"

But that's just one man's opinion.

Besides Mr. Reese Witherspoon's bizarre turn at the end. I thought Matt Dillon's character was extremely realistic, as were Don Cheadle's and the Iraqi store owner.

The tension (caused by overt racism) felt contrived and artificial.

and I'll show you a white person :evilgrin:

That's sad, but skimming through these posts yours really cracked me up.

precisely for the reason that it reduces the topic of "race in the US" to multiple choices on a poll.

This is not a diss against you, btw, this is my utter and total disappointment wtih that movie that I had heard hyped for months, and that, in my opinion, said nothing beyond "Gee...Race...well, it's Complicated BUT we are all HUMAN."

watch John Sayles' "Lone Star"

Also well-acted, with Sayles' usual cast.

:thumbsup: Haven't seen Crash yet so no comment.

i see it progressively getting owrse. we go thru this every so many decades, two steps back, huge ass step forward. there is a lot of healing, a lot of listening that needs to be done. but we are that good that, yes, i think people will tire of this, and begin to see the silliness

that movie was very profound for me, and in essence gave me hope. i havded movie to a couple friends and husband. i told them all clearly,...... the reason i do this political board, the reason i live this, ..... is this movie.

we must listen, we must communicate if we wish to heal. i do wish to heal

assholes & thugs are capable of doing heroic things when they face to face with fellow human beings in need.

...or reaching out to ask for help.

It showed the horrors of casual everyday racism. (The actor wanting the other actor to "dumb down" his lines)

Sometimes people who seem to be heroes can be capable of horrors.

And sometimes miracles prevent tragedies.

What was he lording over Terrance Howard's character? It sort of pointed out that Cameron was just a showpiece - his creative control was subjec to Danza's censorship. But I couldn't figure out why.

but I can imagine things like that happen often.

and about how our shock from our own pain, our weakness and ugliness and fear, and how racism is a response that keeps the pain at bay and keeps us unable to see the pain we are causing others.

felt it was raw when it was over ...

in spite of pretense most of the time. I heard first-hand reports from people who went down to help in the Katrina aftermath. The most shocking stories were the demands for black and white lines for "processing" evacuees. This was demanded by the local populace and authorities from fear. I think the crisis and the news worsened a situation that lies just beneath the surface in ordinary times.

I think you heard an exagerated story. Many friends of mine volunteered down there.

reports are completely wrong!

I attended college at an HBCU here in the South. One of my professors (and still one of my very good friends) moved to the South to get back to his history as an African American. He was born and raised in Illinois and lived in many other places including Washington DC either attending school or later teaching.

He and I had a wonderful conversation one time about what he expected and then actually found when he moved to the South. He always found it interesting about how blatant many people believe that racism is in the South and freely condemn the entire region yet one of the worst modern race riots was in LA, CA which is considered one of the most tolerant, progressive places in our country.

He also said that the North talks integration but lives segregation; in the South, the opposite is true.

There is still racism here as there is everywhere else in this country.

Our schools here are just as segregated as they were in the 60's which is annoying as hell.

Many people I know don't like this factor--I have black friends and white friends (myself included) who just want our kids in a school with a diverse mixture of people and guess what? To get that you have to be able to afford private schools--currently I can't.

Why in the world are we being forced to PAY for a healthy realistic cultural balance?

I could go on and on because this is a real pet peeve of mine.

...as is sexism, nationalism, tribalism -- any illusion that another being is different from yourself is just that: an illusion.

We in the United States created our great Other, in the form of black people, over a couple of centuries of actual ownership slavery that brought together and yet refined two distinct strands of culture. America cannot completely exist without its African elements, and affirmative action has been and is a way to ensure that merging with the Other is encouraged. The free market, always responding to fear, won't let us merge, but will keep it tribal.

In the past 60 years or so, the great immigration from Mexico and Central America has brought in another tribe, an Other, to deal with. And the Vietnamese, part of our legacy from 40 years ago.

I suggest that Affirmative Action is a good thing that government can do, because it forces us to deal with the Other. This is why feminism is fundamentally good for humans, while masculinism is not: The dominant culture must open to the Other, and seek to become it (which in reality it already is) in order to be more fully human.

We tend to gloss over the specifics when we use broad "-ism" terms, none more so than "racism." For centuries, the core underpinning of "racism" was the pseudo-science and mythology that members of one "race" (the proponents' own, conveniently) were inherently superior to members of another "race" solely due to their "racial characteristics." This mythology even infected secularized religious beliefs, where people actually engaged in twisting ("proof-texting") scriptures as somehow establishing this specious pecking order as "natural" and "God's Will."

To the degree there has been progress, it is in increasingly relegating such Medieval corruption to the garbage dump of Gehenna where it belongs. Like polio and smallpox, it will probably never cease to exist as a disease of the human soul, at least in any foreseeable future. Unlike polio and smallpox, the disease of "racial superiority" still infects many millions "in the wild" - more like herpes than smallpox. The destructive power of such diseases (biological and socio-political) guarantee that there will always be those who preserve them for use as weapons (of mass destruction) against a susceptible (less disease-resistant) population.

The pernicious toll of racism, however, is far more insidious than other diseases, because the damage (if not the disease itself) is inherited. It is not, however, "naturally" inherited - it is systemically inherited. It is inherited solely due to the artifices of a socio-economic (and political) system that's intentionally designed to pass on to latter generations both the burdens and the advantages of the gross injustices perpetrated by prior generations. If there were ever a good moral argument for a confiscatory estate tax, this systemic imbalance is certainly one. Just as Social Security is a morally legitimate "safety net" in jointly caring for our parents and grandparents, so should a properly-allocated estate tax offer a morally legitimate "trampoline" in jointly launching our children and grandchildren.

The remaining element of "racism" seems to exist in the manners in which we (1) regard ourselves and (2) regard each other. I find myself increasingly incapable of making any a priori assignation of any other person to any "race" based on appearances. For this, I'm grateful. As I, more and more, am able to see myself more as "human" than "white," I am comforted in belonging to an ever-larger "tribe." Likewise, I'm encouraged to recognize and acknowledge the chosen affiliations of others. The visible is over-rated. Sight is far inferior to insight.

I'm so glad I visited GD today. :)

It takes me far more time effort to carefully (and honestly) articulate such a viewpoint than might be obvious. It's a topic we tend to think we understand - since we all have very firm "conclusions." The problem with a "conclusion," I've found, is that it precludes growth and progress in thinking. After all, that's what 'conclusion' means - the end, stop, final, no more. I've become very wary of 'conclusions' - and prefer to look more closely and see if there's more. Usually, I find there is.

I like your idea about conclusions... I think I'll try to work on that myself. :hi:

doesn't matter what kind on either side but we have had many examples of rudeness and outright meaness from some lowly human beings. We, fortunately, live way up north where few want to exist and those who do are inclusive of anyone else by nessecity.
All human beings are the same; meaness seems prevalent to most races, goodness hard to find.

about healthcare in the US than racism.

in access to decent jobs and health care, good education and dignified retirement, some will always look for scape goats to take the blame.

An excellent movie, by the way. Something that we kept talking long after we left the movie theater.

New Orleans

:grr:

it's not only not gone, it's not even hidden anymore.

Remember when Bushler referred to "those brown people over there?" It's ALMOST funny, coming from such a green creature. :eyes:

So the wife and I went to see Crash a few months ago at Pipers Alley here in Chicago.

We were in utter disbelief at all of the laughs we heard throughout the movie. Specifically, the three women behind us all laughed out loud during the scene where Cheadle's character and the hispanic woman were in the bed room having a heated conversation. Loud, continous laughter began after Cheale made the comment/joke about mexicans and cars on blocks in the yard. (you'll know what I'm talking about if you saw the movie).

I turned around after they were finished and said "who knew racism could be so damn funny."

but judging from this thread, I chose the last one as much more accurate. Sad to say that some DUers aren't enlightened.

I've seen some of the ugliness in action.

My boyfriend and I (I am Italian, he is Puerto Rican) went to the outlets in Clinton, CT. They have a Versace store there. I don't really like those style of clothes but he does. I don't think he was planing on buying anything but when we walked in we went our own way and he was looking at more things than I was. No one ever approached him to ask him if he needed any help but as soon as I went over and looked at this fancy and expensive shirt, a clerk immediately asked if I needed any help.

I know that's not that big of a deal but in little ole' suburban, white Clinton, CT, this type of behavior still exists and it makes me sick.

It's very casual. And I mean everyone too, from the nicest little old lady in the neighborhood right down to the kids. It's just handed down from generation to generation. When I'm on a job and I ask people to refrain from using racial slurs in my presence they laugh as if I'm kidding at first and then sort of get mad at me like I'm a traitor or something when it becomes clear that I'm serious. But if there is a black guy around everyone acts all nice and shit to his face and then rip him behind his back, it's sickening. I've always been the type that treats you the way you treat me regardless of race or religion or whatever. It's just the height of ignorance to act otherwise. Assholes come in all colors and so do good people.

Did anyone else notice the difference b/t the treatment of the latinos vs. the treatment of the blacks/whites/asians/middle-easterners? The latino characters were invariably portrayed as decent, hard-working victms (even angelic) while the other groups were assigned more complex characters. The black characters were particularly "complex" :eyes:.

It felt like propaganda to me.

Please!

edited to add: I guess some people see Colin Powell and Condi
Rice way up there they think everything is A-Ok.

Is racism on the rise? Probably. Is bigotry on the rise? Hell yes! Racism is more about societal and institutionalized power and race, not the day to day stuff; although there is racism there too. There is no "reverse" racism...the reverse would be NO racism. Is there bigotry against white people? Yup!

No group is immune from bigotry and Crash showed that in very stark terms. The one thing I found VERY interesting is the line from the "Iranian" mother who said ; "They think we're Arab. When did Persian become Arab?" The comment means they can't tell us apart, but the actress is not an Arab or Persian, but Greek! i just found that very interesting.

Other '-isms' have gained a stronghold in our country. Take a look at the rape thread from the other day and one can see misogyny and sexism is alive and well. Anti-Semitism has increased in the past few years (but, fell 2% this past year), as has anti-Arab sentiment.

The one thing the religious right is actually "right" about is we are engaged in a culture war, and the human culture is losing!