This was the most important story of the day, but

I see scant discussion of it.

Iraqi leaders say opposition forces have a "legitimate right" to kill American soldiers. According to the leaders our soldiers helped install, attacks on Americans are not acts of terrorism. 2100 American soldiers have not been killed by terrorists, but by people with "legitimate rights." We are not fighting terrorists in Iraq.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=1335999

I slapped my damn forehead when I heard Bush say "bring'em on." I was like, what a damn moron, he just baited a whole sect of people, who are extremely pissed off at America, and these people have enough scrot, balls, to strap bombs on themselves to blow "us" up...and he said that, I wonder how many of our troops died because of that little line of GWBs...what an idiot.

The sad truth is that Americans are fighting and dying in a place that they aren't wanted.

Get our troops out -- now.

*success*?

If we leave now, won't their be violence in Iraq?

:sarcasm:

to make themselves look good, and have the troops pack up and leave?!

Do the usual deal, wait to see who takes over, and buy them off, or prop up a coup. We could have saved $200 billion toward that end.

In spite of this information:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5434059

Iraqi leaders say opposition forces have a "legitimate right" to kill American soldiers. According to the leaders our soldiers helped install, attacks on Americans are not acts of terrorism. 2100 American soldiers have not been killed by terrorists, but by people with "legitimate rights." We are not fighting terrorists in Iraq.


We have Joe Biden a Democratic "leader" putting forth this idiocy:

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=8136

<snip>
To hear Biden tell it, the Bush administration is abandoning Iraq, even as Commandant Cheney rails against any talk of withdrawal, and so "the real question is this":

"As Americans start to come home, will we leave Iraq with our fundamental security interests intact or will we have traded a dictator for chaos?"

Those irresponsible Republicans will leave us with the latter, but the Democrats – or, at least, the Biden wing of the party – have a plan to achieve the former. Unfortunately, due to the mismanagement of this essentially righteous and necessary war,

"Many Americans have already concluded that we cannot salvage Iraq. We should bring all our forces home as soon as possible. They include some of the most respected voices on military matters in this country, like Congressman Jack Murtha. They're mindful of the terrible consequences from withdrawing. But even worse, in their judgment, would be to leave Americans to fight – and to die – in Iraq with no strategy for success. I share their frustration. But I'm not there yet. I still believe we can preserve our fundamental security interests in Iraq as we begin to redeploy our forces."

Biden is just as threatened by Murtha's call for withdrawal as Bush and Cheney are, and he – like the Republicans – is forced to address it, albeit a bit less demagogically. He is not above sophistry, however:

"That will require the not to stay the course, but to change course and to do it now."

Politicians play with words while the greatest strategic disaster in our history unfolds. When the full story of this war is written, both parties will stand condemned out of their own mouths. Oh, but don't worry, says Biden, we're the government, and we're here to help you:

"Though it may not seem like it, there is actually a broad consensus on what the must do. Last week, 79 Democrats and Republicans in the Senate came together and said to the president: we need a plan for Iraq. Level with us. Give us specific goals and a timetable for achieving each one so we know exactly where we are and where we are going. … The problem has been compounded by the president's failure to explain in detail his strategy and to report regularly on both the progress and the problems."

True to the modern liberal faith in central planning and "scientific" management, Biden believes if only we have the right "plan," the Best and the Brightest – armed with timetables and the right "metrics" – will carry us forward to victory. The "problem" isn't in our aggressive foreign policy of preemptive conquest, it's a failure to "explain in detail" why the export of "democracy" at gunpoint isn't an oxymoronic illusion. If only the Democrats were given the job of explaining, says Biden, they would do a much better job at winning American hearts and minds.

and who's the terrorist?

insurgents are not terrorists.

That would be someone coming in from outside Iraq. I believe they are correctly referred to as "resistance fighters".

DUH-bya and "the boys" don't want to admit it because it would make people think maybe we shouldn't be there "fighting terror".

SHIT out of you country and your countrymen/women/elderly/children aren't what could be termed terrorists? I know if that was me and a foreign nation came and attacked my home and my country I wouldn't have a qualm about kicking some ass if I could. Especially if that nation was using a new and improved form of napalm and white phosphorus as weapons.

According to the Bushites, we're they're fighting terrorists. The Iraqis we've placed in power don't agree. In fact, they've now declared that those insurgents have a LEGITIMATE right to kill us.

If we're not there fighting terrorists, wtf are we doing?

asset, oil. What are we doing now? Trying to save neocon face.

are nettlesome and make it harder to divvy up Iraq's oil reserves among the multinationals. My take is those who commit terrorist acts (classical definition, not some bastardized neocon definition) are terrorists whether wearing the white hats or black hats.

You keep hearing on the news that Al-Zarquari, an Al-Queda leader, is behind the attacks. At least some of them. I can see how it's maybe a grey area when you're talking about armed invading troops, but a lot of the insurgents are targeting innocent Iraqi civilians to install a sense of fear - that seems like terrorist tactics to me.

It does not bode well for the lives of those soldiers still there.

this.

On Monday, Iraqi Interior Minister Bayan Jabr suggested U.S.-led forces should be able to leave Iraq by the end of next year, saying the one-year extension of the mandate for the multinational force in Iraq by the U.N. Security Council this month could be the last.

"By the middle of next year we will be 75 percent done in building our forces and by the end of next year it will be fully ready," he told the Arab satellite station Al-Jazeera.

Debate in Washington over when to bring troops home turned bitter last week after decorated Vietnam War vet Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., called for an immediate withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq, and estimated a pullout could be complete within six months. Republicans rejected Murtha's position.

Defending a country that's wants to kill us....not sure what to say.

:shrug: The redcoats are coming! The redcoats are coming!

These are citizen's who are defending their country. We would be doing the same thing. Were the people of Poland when Hitler invaded called terrorist's? I don't think so.

Could this be "propaganda" put out by the neocons? Would this be a good way for the "immediate" withdrawal of our troops, thus "saving face" and bringing their polls back up?? Food for thought. The only thing I've heard on MSM about this is that the Iraqi's want us out now. (which Iraqi's?)

Make it sound like the hugest Superpower ever is the victim in this thing, etc.

yes, we're in a war, enemy soldiers are not terrorists, they are the enemy soldiers

this is nothing new and hardly the most important story of the day

According to the article, Iraq's leaders say those people attacking our soldiers have a legitimate right to do so. We're talking lives, not mere words.

is condoning attacks on our soldiers.

Max.

That's the best reason in the world for us to completely withdraw.
Draw down to Kuwait and start shipping them home NOW!

Guess that makes me a POA.

Pissed of American.

Iraqi government, we would do so. WE HAVE BEEN ASKED TO GIVE A TIMETABLE FOR WITHDRAWL! So, isn't it time to set up the timetable and respect the sovereignty of the Iraqi government???

Absolutely important story!

Also, it shows the capacity of the Arab League to take a lead in the regional problems created by bushco...

Is a Bozo-No-No !

"stay, stay awhile, have some tea, go ahead, swim in the Palace Pool..but we reserve the right to kill you"!

Of couse if someone bombed the hell out of my town, schools, houses, and neighbors... I would probably reserve the same right.

Even though I am a pacifist, after two years of that horror even I would jump in swinging.



:kick:

A leader who is a commandeer and thief, and a lier to boot.

is never terrorism. Soldiers are legitimate military targets.

Like the bombing of the Cole- it's often referred to as terrorism, but last I checked that sucker had some pretty big guns on it.

Terrorism is setting off huge bombs in the middle of hundreds of Iraqi civilians.

Attacking civilians is terrorism.

Iraq has both-- thanks to our presence there.

After all, the silly brown people can't even learn to run their own country.

Operation: Bomb The Brown People will end, and Operation: BLAME The Brown People will begin.

Terrorists that they were.

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/112105_world_stories.shtml

Statement of Representative Cynthia McKinney (D-GA) on the War Resolution of Representative John Murtha (D-PA)

November 18, 2005

Mr. Speaker:

The Republicans in this House have done a heinous thing: they have insulted one of the deans of this House in an unthinkable and unconscionable way.

. . .

By twisting the issue around, the Republicans are trying to set a trap for the Democrats. A “no” vote for this Resolution will obscure the fact that there is strong support for withdrawal of US forces from Iraq. I am voting “yes” on this Resolution for an orderly withdrawal of US forces from Iraq despite the convoluted motives behind the Republican Resolution. I am voting to support our troops by bringing them home now in an orderly withdrawal.

Sadly, if we call for an end to the occupation, some say that we have no love for the Iraqi people, that we would abandon them to tyrants and thugs.

Let us consider some history. The Republicans make great hay about Saddam Hussein’s use of chemical weapons against the Iranians and the Kurds. But when that attack was made in 1988, it was Democrats who moved a resolution to condemn those attacks, and the Reagan White House quashed the bill in the Senate, because at that time the Republicans considered Saddam one of our own.

(more at link)

Kick