Judge slams N.Y. sex-teacher "victims"

The former Catholic-school teacher who admitted to having sex with her students was sentenced to six months in jail yesterday — after the judge bizarrely lashed out at the young victims in the case, calling them "predators."
Albany County Judge Stephen W. Herrick said Sandra "Beth" Geisel had been "manipulated, used and sexually abused by these boys," adding that the blond beauty became a "playmate" to them.

http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/58054.htm

Part of me thinks it's wrong to have double-standards, and yet I don't think this woman belongs behind bars for what was consensual sex. Probation would have been sufficient. When I was 16 or 17, if an older woman this good-looking (see photo) had sex with me, it would have been a dream-come-true. How many hetero 16-year-old boys don't fantasize about having sex with older women?

Not bad at all.

with the latitude to hand out the sentences they see fit.

fantasize about older men?

I would like to hear from the women about this. Why does it make it right for a 16 year old boy to fantasize about an older woman, but a 16 year old girl fantasizing about older men isn't possible?

have sex with children!

16 yo boys and 16 yo girls will fantasize about sex with older women and older men. It does not make the actions of the adult in question to have sex with them ok. That is still a crime - regardless of gender.

Fantasy on the part of a minor = not a crime. Sex with a minor = crime. Why is this is so hard for people to understand these days?

A female adult who propostions, then molests, a minor has committed a serious crime. The adult should be in jail because the adult doesn't understand that it's not okay from a grown person to have sex with someone who is not yet allowed to buy cigarettes, alcohol, pornography or to vote. Who has the mentality of a teenager because the victim is a teenager. Even with the role that the media plays in showing (fictional) young people as far more emotionally mature than they are in reality, I don't understand why it's so hard for people to "get" why female offenders are still criminals in these cases.

How do you think college professors find wives?

As a woman who was young and had sex with an older man (but not quite the age spread listed here) I didn't feel taken advantage of then and I still don't- at the age of 46.

I made a choice. It wasn't a great choice in retrospect, but hell, I can say that about choices I made last week.

I touched on this point in another thread. When these same 16 year old innocent babies go out and kill somebody, somehow they magically tranform into adults who deserve the death penalty.

People need to decide at what age teenagers are adults. I think a 13 year old is still a child, a 16 year old is in the grey area....but still legally they are all children when it suits the law and adults when it suits the law.

Jeebus...make a decision.

creative writing about an encounter with someone much older than me.

i was a 16 yr old girl once

of course we fantasized and -- gasp! -- even had sex w. older men

times have changed, the anti-sex brigade is in control of this society, a problem which goes beyond left or right, since people on the right hate and fear sex and healthy young bodies having sex even more than people on the left

for yr own freedom and safety, you have to pretend to believe the bullshit that sex, for girls, is some form of misery and torture they undergo because they are weak-minded and eager to please

sure doesn't seem like the feminist movement i fought for but that's another discussion for another day

we in this society can't have a rational discussion on this topic at the moment

... the willing.

They have the unfortunate capacity to blur what is and what is not consent.

... were using "coercive power asymmetries" on the teacher?

This is the reason we don't allow folks under a certain age to give their consent.

the kids can't be considered "willing."

Maybe I missed something from earlier in the thread...

... on the judge's characterization of the students as "predators".

That is utter bullshit, she had the power and the law says specifically that they have no right to consent or anything else.

Not sending her to jail was purely a sexist decision IMHO.

.... upon re-reading my post it was perfectly understandable that it might be taken another way.

My wife accuses me of expecting her to read my mind on a regular basis. Maybe I should sacrifie a bit of succinctness for a boost in clarity :)

You're missing the point, I think just so you can show us how smart you are.

I'm sorry but 9 out of 10 teenage boys would jumped at the oppo to have sex with that women...she's gorgeous. They both made mistakes.

I think this is clearly a victimless crime.

Would 9 out of 10 teenage girls jump at the chance to have sex with a gorgeous man?

Calling this victim-less, is IMO, wrong.

their virginity.....

Whats the big deal....? Were the boys hurt? did she use force, tie them up. bondage gone wrong....?

:sarcasm: off.

are alive and well in the DU. Never mind that if it had been a 25 yo male and a 14 yo female there would be no doubt among these people about life in prison without parole for the man. Remember 14 yo girls never consent to have sex with anyone, they are all raped and forced into it by the evil man. Besides the fact that men are told they have to control those urges no matter what the female does. Wheres the females control? Why isn't she held to the same standards as men? Girls are just as likely to fantasize about attractive male teachers and would be willing to have sex with them just as easy as the boys with attractive older females. So why is there double standards being applied here?.

Or July.

"Never mind that if it had been a 25 yo male and a 14 yo female there would be no doubt among these people about life in prison without parole for the man."

Sadly, this isn't true. I wish it were true--the people who post here actually defending the male adult offenders in cases discussed on this site in which the victims were female didn't understand why the male offenders had committed crimes anymore than the people defending this female offender do. Which is very sad. That's not to say that some who are defending the female offenders around here today aren't enslaved by adherence to a double standard--some are outright admitting as much. But--just wait until another case with a man being charged with raping a 14 or 15 year old young woman pops up. Lots of DUers will be jumping to defend that rapist.

If this was a 25yr old male the usual DU crew would be out in force calling him a rapist.

calling her a criminal. I know - I'm a member of "that crew" and regardless of how many times I post in these threads that I believe women who sleep with minors as just as criminal as men who sleep with minors, there's always someone out here suggesting that the double standard is actually on the part of this "crew".

What I see instead, is the folks who don't think men sleeping with minors is a crime, coming here suggesting that women sleeping with minors is their own personal "wet dream". So let's at least be clear about who is promoting the double standard here. The woman isn't a criminal to these people - she is the very vision of their young wet dreams. But then they take offense when some of us suggest that the standard shouldn't be double - it should be, in fact, it IS a crime for an adult to have sex with a minor - male or female.

As another member of "that crew" may I echo that WE are not the ones promoting the double standard. So, for all you comprehension-impaired people crying about DU's alleged double standard, I hope this will be clear enough for you:

ADULTS OF EITHER GENDER HAVE NO BUSINESS HAVING SEXUAL RELATIONS WITH CHILDREN OF EITHER GENDER!!! IT IS SEXUAL ABUSE AND EXPLOITATION!!!! IT IS A CRIME!!!!! THEY SHOULD ALL BE PUNISHED WITHOUT REGARD TO GENDER, AGE, OR PRETTINESS!!!!! GOT IT????

Any questions?

I replied to a thread suggesting "Lots of DUers will be jumping to defend that rapist."

Quite telling that some Duers thought I was referring to them, or that I ever said there was a double standard.. :shrug:

Although, I did notice that neither of your posts referred to the teacher as a rapist..... :eyes:

:)

sorry, that is my question

a 16 year old is not a child

for most of human society, a 16 year old girl was a mother, and a 35 year old woman a grandmother

the physical realities in 2005 are the same as they were in 1805

putting people in prison for perfectly normal, natural behavior is sick and cruel


16 is not 6, 16 is a physical adult, esp. for girls, i was physically mature at 14

mary, mother of jesus, was 14, does that make joseph -- or god -- a child molestor?

come on, we celebrate the young mother as a goddess on one hand and call her a slut w. no self esteem on the other hand

the girls have a certain stigma...while when vice versa...the boys are viewed as almost some kinda king kong heros. The law makes no distinction and I suppose she gatta go to prison/house arrest for 56 years or so....

We are Human and are subject to errors....all of us....

that makes it okay?

Opening up a big can of worms here, IMO.

I said in reference to these people saying that 14 year old boys fantasize about attractive older females so its not really a crime for the female to act on it. 14 yo females also fantasize about attractive older males and if the male acts on it he is a rapist. Regardless of anything age of consent is not 14 in most states. So therefore anyone who has sex with anyone under the age of consent is committing rape. Which in turn means equal punishment regardless of gender. Why are women being sentenced lighter then males? Same crime same punishment for all.

Males and females should be treated equally.

:rofl:

It seems that it is a great day to be a female child molester.

This is just utter, absolute crap. Yes, boys fantasize about sex with pretty older women. Girls also fantasize about sex with handsome, older men, boy bands are ample proof of that. But just because kids fantasize about these things doesn't mean that it is the right thing to do for the adult to fulfill said fantasy.

In fact, it could be argued that this is more damaging for a boy than for a girl, since study after study has shown that boys mature emotionally at a slower rate than girls. But instead the judge lets this woman off with a slap on the wrist:wtf:

And I'm sorry, but how can the boys be considered to be "predators"?
This woman is the authority figure here, she held all of the cards so to speak. How in the hell could she have been manipulated? No threats were made by the boys, she was the one who made the initial approach, she is the one who initiated the whole situation, and continued to follow through with it. What, these boys somehow, miraculously made her incapable of saying No?:eyes:

Sorry, but this is a bullshit ruling, and hopefully it will be appealed by the prosecutor. Blaming the victim is rightfully condemned when a man rapes a woman, it should be equally condemned when a woman rapes a man.

it is that teenage girls are so much more emotionally fragile than teenage boys. That's not to say all teenage boys are not emotionally fragile. But it is not as common and completely depends on the emotional maturity of the boy (not to imply boys ever mature emotionally, but I digress.)

Boys and girls, men and women see sex from completely different perspectives. Sex is much more of an emotional experience for women than it is for men. For men, to paraphrase Roy McAvoy, all a woman has to do is show up. Sex is physical for men and women both, but it is much more emotional for women.

When an underage girl is seduced by an older man, the girl will later suffer tremendous emotional damage when she realizes its something she really didn't want to do and she was taken advantage of. In general, when an underage boy is seduced by an older woman, it's like "Alright!"

If I found out my teenage son was having an affair or even had a fling with an older woman, I'd just say something like, "Cut that crap out, it can only get you in trouble." If someone seduced my teenage daughter, I'd get the shotgun out. Misogynistic? By definition, yes. But the teenage daughter would suffer tremendously more emotional damage and its wrong to hurt someone.

I think when something is labeled a crime that there should be some kind of good reason involving the harm that is done to another person and not simply because something is not considered moral. Morals all depend on who defines them and why they think something is moral or not.

Now here I go, stepping in it big time while trying to say what women think.

Misogyny is the hatred of women. Treating them differently based solely on gender is discrimination. Thinking of them differently is chauvinistic.

It's a lot easier to discuss the real problems when the correct terms are applied.

I don't disagree with your desire to shoot the bastard who seduces your daughter but it is disciminatory, chauvinistic and you are applying a double standard here.

You seem to think you're proving your love for your daughter but you are actually teaching both your son and your daughter that he is capable of making these decision and she is not.

It is currently against the law for an adult to sleep with a minor regardless of gender. Until we stop teaching our boys that sleeping with an adult woman is cool, we will continue to teach and encourage this double standard.

I see you are correct that Misogyny is the hatred of women. I have associated the term with a dominant patriachal society, but I see that that is considered the basis of a patriachal society.

However, No! I would not teach my son that it is correct and I don't assume that he is capable of making that decision. But, boys will be boys and he would likely do it, given the opportunity.

As for the daughter, that's not proving love. I would protect my daughter much more strongly because she is much more susciptible to being very damaged. Not just damaged physically, but especially emotionally. So I'm protecting her from being hurt. Not teaching that she can make the decision for herself.

Discriminatory? Both sexes are not really equal in the emotional aspect. Chauvinistic? No for the same reason.

And I don't teach the boy that it is cool. Boys decide that themselves.

Unfortunately, this is an area where neither sex is going to agree because its physically and emotionally impossible for either side to completely understand the other due to differences in the structure of the brain that science has already identified. That's why men don't really know or understand what women want.

You are not treating your daughter as equal to your son. Sorry if you don't see it that way but you are reinforcing patriarchal stereotypes that damage both men and women.

Re: "Both sexes are not really equal in the emotional aspect." I would suggest "both sexes are not the same" - that doesn't mean one is inferior or superior to the other (equal implies greater than or less than).

They are different. But they are still equal. As long as you continue to tell your daughter she is not emotionally equal to your son, both she and your son will believe she is not his equal.

ETA: For the record, I am not faulting you for wanting to protect your daughter. I am, however, questioning why you think she needs more protection than your son.

If you think they were, go check out the depositions on the Smoking Gun. If you do a Google search on her name, more details can be found.

This woman is an alcoholic and was out of control. This was no "Summer of '42" scenario. The boys were not little darlings, they were practically high-fiving each other. The kind of boys that well-adjusted girls and women call "pigs."

This situation was more like the braggart high-school jocks and the drunken cheerleader with no self-esteem. Only in this case the cheerleader was of an illegal, inappropriate age.

The kid whose family moved for her arrest was previously booted from the school and only went to the police when CBA refused to re-instate him. Why they kept her around as long as they did (there were known problems) is a mystery. Perhaps they were trying to give her a break; many of her students (including the boys in question) actually praised her as a teacher.

They are almost never enforced. Only when some person wants to get back at someone else.

To me this is just legislating morality.

that floats about on the subject of human sexuality.

I'm not. I think there's a valid difference of opinion as to whether this action is legal or extralegal. Personally, i think people place way too high a weighting on their own feelings of sexual satisfaction, so they make bad choices in a misguided attempt to validate themselves.

As a result, an out of control 42 year old with a drinking problem, preys on the easy mark of 16 year old boys who would not say no to sex. (Not many 16 y/o's would, would they?)

The "hysteria" seems more to be about whether this behavior should be punishable with prison time and whether a gender reversal would assure the opposite outcome.

I don't think anyone here is freaking out because it's about sex.
The Professor

And it seems to be about human sexuality.

I'm not defending this womans actions, or the boys, I'm suggesting everybody ought to calm down and stop the name calling, and I doubt any good will come from throwing any of these people in jail. Jail is a lousy solution for most problems.

Throwing people in jail is usually a huge waste of taxpayer money. At the same time, i think the issue that is creating the anger here is the casual nature some people accept this event simply because the perp was a woman and the "victims" teenage boys. I'm quite certain that the gender reversal would create howls of outrage.

If this were a 42 year old man, and the partners 16 year old girls, would you feel jail a better solution? Not barbing. Asking a question.
The Professor

I do understand the concerns about the "double standard", but if
you don't like a "double standard" than you have to have a "single
standard", same rules for everybody.

I was aquainted with a good deal of this sort of thing when I was young, and it was mostly swept under the table and ignored. That was not good either, people were harmed, but I think if you are going to address it rather than ignore it, you have to look at the facts and the attitudes of the parties involved, not proceed on the basis of a bunch of stereotypes. Was there violence or coercion? What is the attitude of the parties involved in the aftermath? Are THEY angry? Do THEY feel harmed? Do THEY feel manipulated or taken advantage of? When you have answers to those questions you have a basis for deciding how to proceed.

I do think there needs to be a legal barrier between the mature and the immature when it comes to sex, but it will serve it's purpose better if the penalties are proportionate to the crime and based in reasoned observation of the facts of the case.

See my views are rooted in a bit different place. I think the lines protecting the immature need to be firm and well understood.

Like i said earlier, i think people do themselves harm when they place too much emphasis on sex. I think that's one of the signs of maturity, in fact, is to place the proper importance and priority to all things, including who, where, when and how often with regard to sex. I'm certainly not uncomfortable about it. Who anybody sleeps with and how often (aside from me and my wife) isn't any of my business. I couldn't care any less. Truly impossible for me to care less.

But, when it becomes any sort of competition (even if against one's self, as in "i'll see if i can get this teenager to do me"), then it's unhealthy and has its consequences.

Hence, i think she needs to be stomped on, but good, legally, but we still agree that this is not a "jail time" crime. A good stretch of community service (and i mean some serious work for serious time) would be appropriate. Sex with minors is not a game to be won or lost. To treat it as such is really the crime, not the act itself.
The Professor

I just think humans are inherently irrational (most anyway) on the subject and you have to allow for that. One of the nice things about getting older is that sex becomes more of an ordinary subject in life.
But this woman should be held accountable in a reasonable way, just like a man, and the boys most likely should get some "counselling" too.

Have a nice holiday.
The Professor

"somehow"??????

i was once nearly raped by an underage male and there was only one of them and i was sober and i barely fought him off

in yr book, i would be guilty of a crime -- and a serious one, that is just crazy

in my state, having sex w. someone too drunk to know what they are doing is legally defined as rape

jeez louise

i bet this lady is all of 115 pounds soaking wet

they're all trash but this case didn't belong in a courtroom, it belonged on jerry springer or something

An adult woman -- who is 42 fucking years old -- is claiming that her having sex with her sixteen year old students was because they were harrassing her? And she waits until she is criminally charged before she makes this claim?

This would be laughable -- if only it rose to that level. And, on the contrary, under statutory rape laws, she should be the one who is charged with rape.

This is a disgrace to real sexual harrassment claims.

is always a higher age for boys then for girls in states when they differ. I know females tend to mature sooner, but as you noted it is harder to think of boys as victims.

I didn't register to read the whole story so I don't know details. I agree the boys likely enjoyed it but a teacher who is having sex with several underage students should go to jail. Her position holds responsibilities, getting the kids off is not one of them. I hope they all had safe sex, that she taught them that at least.