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I think Kucinich deserves heh :D some props for standing up to this originally, come on "liberal" media.

Unfortunately, Inouye's voting for it.

But :thumbsup: Kerry!

I agree as well that we can't simply get out, but the 87b doesn't pass the smell test. Good on Kerry.

:thumbsup:

I am curious to hear what Dean supporters think, if they respond.

Check #3.

Didn't realize you were a Dean supporter.

It's the radical left purist in me. :evilgrin:

Then again, there isn't much doubt in my mind about how Zell will vote, so GA can't talk.

Dean said he'd support the bill, as long as Bush reduced his tax cuts to pay for it. That's exactly the way I hoped Democrats would play this bill. Make the asshole warmongers pay for their warmongering, not our children.

Why did Kerry vote no, btw? Accountability?

Something about the U.N. has to be involved and the burden not just on the Americans.

...in order to get a chance at winning the primary.

Doesn't matter much because I think he's toast by Feb 3rd.

I don't think the vote is going to move the single-issue voter types.

But you know that if he wins the primary Bush will paint this as voting against supporting the troops. The public, with the attention span of your average goldfish, will not spend the time to understand the subtle nature of Kerry's argument for voting No.

Kerry has the support of the American people when he votes no.

The October 10-12 CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll.

Question: As you may know, President Bush requested that Congress authorize an additional $87 billion in government spending for Iraq and the war on terrorism. Do you think Congress should or should not vote to authorize this?"

Answer: 57% NO to 43% yes


http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm

Bush*'s accusations of "not supporting the troops" would backfire if the nominee is a genuine war hero like Kerry or Clark. It would only end up reminding people that Bush* never served in combat.

Last year conventional wisdom was that a vote against the war resolution was political suicide. Times change. I think it's entirely possible that by this time next year a no vote on the $87 billion will not hurt the Dem candidate at all.

He's coming around. Stand up! :bounce:

There was a UN resolution today that passed 15-0 that encourages other countries to send monetary and military support to Iraq for peace-keeping and rebuilding purposes. Also appears as if some of the European countries and Japan may be contributing money. I would expect France, Germany and Russia to eventually come around.

"We need to stand up to this president. They’ve already proven they can’t be trusted, they’ve already proven that they’re willing to mislead, and this particular plan for $87 Billion is top down, starting with Halliburton, and the other great friends of the President. It doesn’t do the job ...... I think it is the right thing to do to vote against the President’s plan; to force him to confront reality, and to force him to do what’s right for America."

I think Kerry just picked up a lot of fence sitters.

He may not be my candidate, but that doesn't matter - he called this one right. Very good.

It'll be interesting to see if this affects their poll numbers at all.

Gephardt and Lieberman voted yes.

I was kind of surprised Edwards came out early with a no vote, from the way he talked about this at the debates in the past it sounded like he would vote yes.

This might be a factor in who gains and loses votes in the primary, but who knows. I lean towards the opinion that Gephardt and Lieberman are on the right side of the vote politically.

You can see it online. <http://www.johnedwards2004.com/television-ads.asp> "Strong"

Vote no but get out the message as to why too!! Don't let the fiscally reckless R's set the tone of this discussion.

The more who vote no the sooner Jr gets the message.

Julie

I still have no doubt in my mind that if Kerry could hop in a time machine and go back and change his vote to 'no' on the resolution he'd do it in a heartbeat.

I still think, in practical terms, this is a bad decision.

I would have rather him voted no on the resolution and yes to the $87 B.

Sorry Mr. Kerry, you should have voted against the war from the start. I love to see this stuff, don't get me wrong, but this reeks of political opertiunism. He doesn't want to be on the wrong side of the fence in the next debate. Jumping on the bandwagon when he should have been driving the damn wagon, IMO.

I'm a Dean/Kucinich fence supporter, just for info...

describes Dean's entire career IMHO.

Well done!

Since the IWR, I have been extremely critical of John Kerry because I believed his vote for the resolution was an atrocity. I have said I would not vote for anyone who empowered Bush unless they acknowledged how badly flawed Bush's policy in Iraq is ...

We are all Democrats and progressives ...

The time for reunification has arrived !!!

Kerry and other democrats, regardless of whether they voted for IWR or not, are "DOING THE RIGHT THING NOW" ... we cannot, as a party, continue to turn a blind eye to the madness of this administration ...

Many of us have called on the democrats to stand up to bush, to call him on his lies and to reject his directionless policy in Iraq ...

Congratulations to John Kerry and other democrats who have stood up and said "NO !!" ... you all have earned my respect by taking this action ...

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my criticisms of Kerry have never been personal ...

i bitterly objected to his IWR vote ... maybe this latest vote signals a willingness to confront bush on his insane foreign policy ... let's hope so ...

we need every democrat to stand in opposition ...

The DAY we started "shock and awe" he should have been howling,even if he voted with the resident.Waiting this long, just because we have troops in the field, speaks of opportunism.

You don't see him yelling,"THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION LIED TO THE SENATE OVER AND OVER AGAIN!!"

all candidates for all offices must be viewed as opportunists ... perhaps most of them would bend a little more this way or that way to gain some traction with the voters ...

but the $87 billion and the message it sends to U.S. voters and to the rest of the world is far more important than just political considerations ...

we are in a life and death struggle here against a gang of war criminals who are killing our good men and women in uniform and are lining the pockets of their corporate friends in the process ...

i have no problem when choosing among the candidates with questioning their motives ... but your post doesn't seem to comment on the bigger picture ... this is truly a great day for democrats ... finally, some of those who initially voted to support this insanity have found the wisdom to do the right thing ...

i, for one, applaud them for that ...

This vote could really cost him politically. It seperates Kerry, Dean, Edwards, and Kucinich from Gephardt and Lieberman. It may come back to bite him in the ass, come general election time. I think it shows courage. More courage than he showed with his IWR vote, unfortunatly.

He HAS been protesting Bush's handling of this war. You haven't been listening. And he did say that Bush lied to the Senate. He did the right thing here and you've still got to bash him?

amazing that he will show up for once.

The one who showed up at his draft physical complete with disqualifying x-rays from his personal doctor?

These are Repub talking points, at least they're the ones who started this crap. This tactic scores points only with those who don't know they vote count in the Senate. He knows when he must be there for a vote.

He's my Senator and I support him and any other candidate who must be absent for a vote as long as their vote does not make a difference.

I doubt there will be enough "no" votes to keep the appropriation from passing, but every "no" vote is still an encouragement.

Sorry to sound so sour grapes before, but wishy-washy is not what we need from Dems. Maybe the stain from his about-face will wash out in some people's eyes.

My biggest complaint about his IWR vote was that HE TRUSTED GEORGE BUSH. He had every piece of evidence that we had here that GWB was a sneak and a liar, and would back out of any committment at a moment's notice. And he still trusted him. And THAT'S an error in judgment that I don't want in a President.

Well, looks like he is doing OK as a Senator, for today.

MR. RUSSERT: ...and I'll show it to you. You said in January, Governor, "I would be surprised if Saddam Hussein didn't have chemicals and biological weapons."

DR. DEAN: Oh, well, I tend to believe the president. I think most Americans tends to believe the president.

http://www.demog.berkeley.edu/~gabriel/dean2004blog/Dean_MTP_June_22_2003.htm

I really wish that Dean would focus more on what he is going to do now rather than depending on what he did not do before.

This is great news for Kerry. Clearly, he was tortured between two lousy choices over the IWR. Now he finally gets a chance to say "Bush, you incompetent chimp, I gave you a clear roadmap on how to avoid this from the beginning. Holding Saddam accountable was the right thing to do. Acting like a horse's ass was not."

Well, maybe not those exact words, but the sentiment is the same.

Shes one of ours.

With little political cost, Kerry's vote hammers a big dent in the "Bushlite" attacks coming from Kerry's primary competitor. The public absolutely hating the 87 billion spending increase makes this politically a no brainer.

Regardless if the bill is porkbarreled or not, Iraq needs much money as soon as possible. Hence whether Kerry's vote was appropriate is debatable.

"Iraq needs much money as soon as possible" - Iraq can only use $6 billion dollars this year, so why do they need $27 billion? Regardless if porkbarreled? Is that really what you think? Do you need better schools, funding for special education, security at ports, communication systems for fire fighters? Or would you rather it just go to Halliburton and other Bush friends? It DOES matter, and Edwards and Kerry are willing to say so. They are the real Straight Talkers.

I keep checking C-Span, & it seems to still be yakking about amendments.

how convenient. What a coincidence.

The guy's been AWOL on every other vote. Gee, wonder why he showed up here.

to benefit.

Why won't you state an opinion on his statement?

most of DU anyway.