Shopping madness: It's the only remaining way to belong.

Think about it: What other way is there to be so much a part of something in America? Under our corporate masters we have successfully supplanted citizenship with shopping, and "Black Friday" is sorta like Election Day. Compared to active involvement in committee work or canvassing, fighting with another human over a piece of Chinese merchandise is easy and fun, and you have a tangible object when you're done.

This will bring us down, folks; this is the very kernel of our troubles, because in consuming we are lost and alone, seeking what cannot be gained. In political action we're connected and energized, making connections for love to flourish, but as long as the market is unfettered, it will work to teach us that shopping is belonging.

There are several ways that changes in public policy could start to turn this around -- I'd be interested in the Libertarians' view of how less government could help.

You can't go wrong with good books IMHO,and the shipping was free.

I avoid the insanity of Christmas and actually spend less by internet and catalogue shopping.

The purchase of the gift cards is made with books I sell from my collection. We do send checks to the out-of-state grandkids. This year, we are bringing one toy to our two grandsons, but that will be after the holiday.

It works rather well.

my grandchildren. LOL

and give them mini-previews for an audio outlet.

We're really more interested in movies and plays, but the kids do like to read.

Last night, we played a game called "Apples to Apples" -- kind of a comparison game. I had never heard of it. My seven-year-old granddaughter is finally catching on to reading. Her four and 11/12ths year-old brother can only spell his own name (and recognizes those five alphabet letters... that's it!).

The only thing that comforts me is that Albert Einstein is purported not to have learned to read until he was five. I skipped first grade and went right into second grade, so neither of them take after me! :)

I just am doing my damndest to encourage them to read books instead of the video games,TV,DVD's etc.

That game "Apples to Apples" sounds like fun---I'll have to check my little ones out and see if they know it.

and only pay three bucks for shipping.

Plus, Amazon is pretty right wing, I think. I've submitted book reviews that were well written but critical of conservative books and they just somehow never made it online.

he is behind the 65% solution, a new education 'reform' movement which just gives schools more ways to fail.

Hate to bust your bubble, but when I read this, I decided to stop giving overstock.com my money.

Well, we're screwed bookwise, then, because Amazon is like a right wing arsenal.

I don't know if they are on the internet but we have several of their stores here and I love them.

But I will admit I am afraid to investigate WHO runs this company. :eyes:

on the 65% solution I mentioned in my previous post. It is the brainchild of the Overstock.com guy:

Governor Blunt's proposed "65% Solution" is part of a national GOP political strategy to assist Republicans with their standing on public education and to help them create a climate favorable for anti-public school measures like vouchers and tax credits.  In addition, the proponents of this measure are conspiring to evade campaign finance laws around the country through the use of a 501 (c)(4).

http://www.firedupmissouri.com/

and get a sense of belonging.

Works for us here at our house.

I let the boys decide.

Between Texas and A&M, I have to go with the undergog, A&M. I'm stupid that way. I don't have money on it, though.

so I never know who is the underdog.

Last night I let my 8 year old nephew tell me who to root for.

Hey guess what? Hubby's BIL is a 'local official' in a small suburban community up by the airport. He is an asshole freeper so we don't willingly spend ANY time with him. Well last night we heard on the news he has been suspended and is negotiating his resignation!

woohoo don't ya just love a family scandal :)

That sounds more fun than my family scandal.
Turns out visiting the farm would have been a bad idea. My brother's crack-whore wife was caught stealing step-mom's jewelry, then denied everything. We tried to warn them. She's dragged my poor brother into her nightmare, too.

Wow I am jealous. We don't have any crack whores in our family - at least not that I know of :)

We could do without the drama. Several years ago, she stole my youngest sister's identity. She married my brother as my mom was dying, thinking there was money to be had from insurance. Now, she's pulling the same shit with my dad. Dad owns nothingl. But, aw, she's an addict, so cut her some slack.

Don't ya love it?

I've got enough problems right here, I warned my dad about her. What the fuck do I know?

First I would see the repeal of the current laws on incorporation and return to the original concept of State sanctioned cooperatives that were chartered for a specific purpose the would be too big for a single company to accomplish. Once the project was completed, the charter was revoked and the corporation dissolved. The other elephant that we would finally talk about and take down is the Federal Reserve. This aberration is antithetical to the American Republic, and it took all of the re:puke: party's political capital to sneak through in the middle of the night, during the christmas recess. These two steps would do more to strengthen our economy and rid us of those who would rule us, than all of the stimulus packages of all the last 7 or 8 administrations, combined.
Reigning in rampant consumerism would, I believe, would happen of it's own accord once the mindset of true self-reliance, combined with the huge bump in the paycheck you would see, begins to take hold. I think the underlying motivation for the mean spiritedness we see today is insecurity of living a largely meaningless life, indentured to an organization that is incomprehensible in it's size, and unaware of or unresponsive to it's constituent parts, that holds the power of life and death over those cogs, with no accountability.
In short the individual consumer, as opposed to a citizen, has no voice, no power, no decision over the course of its own life.

I agree that policy is good to the extent it encourages local involvement and enfranchisement, economically as well as politically. Your guess that consumerism would diminish with the increase of true self-reliance is something I share in my hopeful mind, while my cynical self sees something in the human masses that wants to be enslaved.

Another biggie, of course, is local control of electronic media. I'm not betting much money on that one.

conscience of the sheeple too. It is just so sad to think of what we were given and what we've done with it.
Oh well, I'll be dead in another 30 - 40 years and it won't bother me so much anymore.
In the meantime - :beer: :toast:

Since libertarian opinion was specifically requested...

It is of my firm opinion that the ultra-wealthy are not singular actors in the concentration of wealth. Call me fucking crazy, but it seems to me that supply and demand is a contract, and the exchange of goods and services is a freely-entered-into contract, most of the time.

It is not the government's job to keep you from living like a fucking pig. It is not the government's job to punish corporations who are selling otherwise true-to-advertised, safe products to individuals who are freely entering into purchasing contracts. It will never be the government's job, because that's something akin to authoritarian mind control.

I think corporations are two big. I agree with you, greyhound, that both the federal reserve, as well as restrictions on corporate charters and corporate personhood are a pressing and urgent concern. Both of these things, I think fall under the scope of libertarianism. Libertarians are generally against the federal reserve, and they are also in favor of ending corporate personhood.

I like your reference, grayhound, to the "mindset of true self-reliance," which I often call "individual efficacy." I think that it can come about through libertarian philosophy. There is nothing in libertarian philosophy that suggests that non-coersed individuals can bond together for common goals and purposes. The problem is, the thing that binds us is not our committment to community, but a sort of national dialogue, engendered by mass production, mass media and a distant bureaucratic government. I think that to get to the point where we can bind and cooperate freely, we must first be convinced of our own individual efficacy. Freeing oneself from certain societal conventions is necessary to precipitate such a change. Meaning that, for instance, all national-brand products should be shunned. That people shouldn't watch national media. That the drama of the political national stage, should be the drama of the local political stage.

I think what drives consumerism is that we live far from our bodies, and our Earth in a hazy miasma of the constructs necessary for the wealthy to control us, from afar. That everything from social institutions, to filial arrangements, to how we treat our bodies is a product of this distant living space, these over-arching societal mores and conventions. All these identical taupe houses.

The individual needs to be free to feel the consequences of his or her own actions. The individual must feel the "footprint" he or she is leaving behind. The individual needs the feeling of efficacy and self-reliance that only a free individual can feel.

I think that the government, to some extent, buys us all complacency. It is obvious that it is not the poor, or the downtrodden that causes the bulk of our problems, but the uneducated, the unscrupulous, the apathetic -- the individual with the means to make responsible choices, that refuses -- for vanity, or comfort or to fill a hole inside that the antithesis of quality living has punched into him or her.

I don't know what the solution is, but it certainly lies outside of government. It lies with me, and with me making a non-coersed connection with you. It lies within cause and effect.

Education in the truest sense, the "drawing out" of the innate soul and wisdom in each of us. This education would help to correct the practices of false living - away from our bodies, our earth, our true selves. And would you argue that education must be outside the realm of government? Should the free market determine what is to be taught and how?

And further, some of the kind of education that it would take could be found in no school. Of course, home ec classes could be revised to provide for responsible consumerism. But I would argue that people already know what they could do -- they just don't have the motivation to do it.

No, I don't think it's an authoritarian governing body's responsibility to dictate the morals, any more than I think that a corporation should get to dictate morals. Hopefully, this kind of stuff happens outside of either realm. If we still have that realm in which to live.

I suggest that many people DON'T know what to do. Lots of young parents feed their children junk and let them watch TV all day because they're unaware of other ways to live. The free market will gladly supply them with lies about health, nutrition, the environment, and on and on. Only the government has the authority to mandate the truth about something (not that it always does... but who are the lobbyists that write the government's messages when they DO lie?) The free market will always give people the short cut, the fast and easy way their id desires. This, in my view, is why Libertarianism cannot bring a better world: most people are too uneducated and scared to want it.

"We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors ... and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."

This quote is from a Bush admin. official, and appeared in an article by the NYT's Ron Suskind. I'm sure you've heard it. Your big government already believes that it can mandate the truth, and reality -- and is attempting to. But "oh, only if the right people were in charge." Who determines what's right?

My libertarian slogan is "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" It means: Who watches the watchers? It is the beginning and ending of my philosophy.

as those institutions determining the actions of people, and the consequences of their actions. And the "Truth," or some form of it, has emerged variously through each of these, as they have waxed and waned in importance and quality.

The State at its best: Representative, egalitarian, supportive of the needy. At its worst: Repressive, corrupt, totalitarian.

The Church at its best: Spiritual, charitable, tolerant, loving. At its worst: Warlike, dogmatic, divisive.

The Market at its best: Competitive, generous, energetic, innovative. At its worst: Deceitful, greedy, monopolistic.

Education has been entrusted to and conducted by each of these entities over history's time. I presently see all of them as near the worst they can be; how about you? And to whom would you trust the writing and delivery of the messages of the Truth to the people? Just saying it's up to individuals simply doesn't work (remember the young parents with a big-screen TV and cases of soft drinks, but without many clues.)

I am a hard-core socialist in three areas; education, health care, and justice. I firmly believe that in order for us to realize the promise of America, we absolutely must remove the profit motive from these areas. The very idea that "you get the justice you can afford" is obscene. The same is true of education and health care.

weekend. a way for us to kick off the holidays. you can interpret it to however you may want, doesn't mean it is true. i know people that shop day after thanksgiving as a kick off to celebrate all the month of december, the joys of christmas.

your interpretation make it darkness

these peoples experience is not in darkness. it is joy, love, excitement

you chose to see the very worst shopping after thanksgiving can be

doesn't make it so

i would never go out day after thanksgiving, but i dont have the desire to bash people, and make less their experience. i do not agree with your whole premise to your argument. i think much of this razing day after christmas shopping is nonsense

the "holiday shopping crowds." This is not the journalism of a democracy, it's a kind of boosterism for acquisition of goods as a substitute for real human connection. That's the reason it's remarkable to me: buying and giving cheaply-made presents this time of year is not the best way for people to relate to their society OR to their family.

in the most negative light, something people have been enjoying for i dont know how long, that becomes the peoples experience. simply you are wrong

because we buy presents for people we love and care about, does not warrant your judgment of who these people are, what it means to them, their expression to family or society. it is merely your interpretation

in the past i interpreted christmas in the materializing of the event. with family, i see my interpretation is not the way it has to be. i have grown. what i experience, and my family experience in the making and giving of gifts, is nothing to the caring and loving. gifts are a side bar. and i have even learned where gift giving is an act of love and thought to someone i care about. something else i had no concept of

again i dont agree with you. you will see holidays thru your eyes, and it will not warm your heart. where as seeing it thru my eyes will be filled with joy and love and connection and spirit with fellow man

i prefer my trip down the lane this holiday season, than yours.

but rather is a way for people sitting in front of their PC to feel superior to people who got up really early this morning to try to purchase a similar PC at a price their limited budgets can handle. This holier-than-thou mentality that's been plaguing DU today is really nauseating.

to the movies. oh yea

and yes............silliness

Enjoying the holidays qualifies you as a "sheeple".

I'm about to take my daughter to a music store so we can pick up a songbook of Christmas tunes, so I guess that makes me a "sheeple" too.

how fun is that. to sing along in sound with your daughter, playing all the christmas favorites. and i suppose you will have a roasting fire, with good cheer, hanging the decorations on the tree

evil evil i tell you

sounds wonderfully lovely. enjoy. i will too

Telly S. with his daughter. That's what it's all about: spending good time with those you love, and enjoying the spirit of the winter season, whether it's Christmas you're celebrating or Hanukkah or whatever. What is not cool is making huge crowds at Wal*Mart the biggest story of the day, as if massive shopping for crappy stuff is the same as loving and giving.

it is just really about family in our house, welcoming those that dont have families with unconditional love. and it becomes important to them too. hopefully for most all, it isnt about presents, spending, things. i have a friend that came to thanksgiving, whose family never did the gathering. and the noise of my family, and love, ah.....knocked her down. she really wants her brother here for the next gathering. talking to my 10 year old about what we gave her, and his understanding for people, huge lesson for him.

yes the media is messing up christmas making this what it is about. as the repugs try to take away christmas with happy and merry christmas and dems, yes dems, telling me to feel shame and guilt because i buy toys from china for my children. using my children to shame me.

that is why i jumped on it this thread. enough. some of us just wnat the love and peace and joy of celebration with family.

No camping, no picnics, no long weekend out doing whatever...no shopping, just eating and the urgency of being with family/relatives on that one day. I've been single and completely alone on Thanksgiving and it was miserable. And almost everyone does the dinner.

But the day after..well..is it belonging? I don't think it's to "belong." I think the only urgency is that it's CHEAP. And that what we value and the true cost of things are things that we must discuss. Of course, I have never been poor so I don't really understand that my "make or break" would be to say save $25 or even $50 by participating in the stress of fighting crowds and getting up at an ugodly hour to participate. I value my TIME and my stress levels and my sleep. I value taking time shopping-yes I like a good deal-but I don't want the cheapest thing at a store that treats it's workers like hell. Somebody is paying to make it cheap for you. That's the problem. How cheap are you and what do you value?

Public policy? I don't think so. Unrestrained capitalism can only be changed by a more spirtitual outlook. Not relgion-but the soul-what does it cost YOU to buy cheap? Nothing, or the knowledge that it's only cheap for YOU because somebody else is suffering to make it that cheap.

I just heard this on the news... :puke:

Screw'em.

I get a mental picture of stockbrokers diving out of high buildings. When did it come to mean a shopping frenzy?

Mr. Retrograde and I are planning on spending the day with some friends, then making pies for our big dinner party tomorrow: the Saturday after Thanksgiving is our anniversary (35 years so far)


"When Black Friday comes
I'll stand down by the door
And catch the grey men when they dive from the 14th floor"
-Steely Dan

eta: I'll get that quote right eventually

a skewed view of the word "consumer." MKJ

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5452018&mesg_id=5452018

for ANY president, including that of the United States.

When "bidness" is the yardstick, citizens have nothing in common EXCEPT as consumers.

for decades the world has looked to America as the standard by which all others are measured, and what has it brought us? We're exhausted and lonely, and bringing home bags full of items only fills our closets and does nothing to fulfill our souls. People are restless, anxious, bored, and most of us know deep down that we were NOT meant to live this way. Our planet is slowly cooking, and may become uninhabitable in our lifetimes, all due in large part to America's obsession with material goods.

There's several great books out there; "Affluenza" is one, "Your money or your life" is another. They teach that there are three basic components to human happiness:

1.) Connections to and involvement with family and/ or friends

2.) Connecting with nature

3.) Personal expressions of creativity (from Art and literature to volunteerism and activism-all can be deemed creative self expression).

Shopping really doesn't fit into the equation. Advertising and the MSM tell us that we are what we own, and that shopping is a sport or entertainment. It drained our energy, our financial resources, and our natural resources. I've found that by turning off the TV I am no longer compelled to shop. I've got the internet, I've got Netflix, that's more than enough electronic entertainment. Now if only my friends were less wrapped up in shopping and television viewing I might have #1 covered!

I don't know if there's any way for the government to intervene, and even if there were, they wouldn't do so. This has become a plutocracy, after all-and many of those that are wealthy got that way in part due to our nation's obsession with shopping. I wish I had an answer outside of "turn off the television", but I don't. :-(

There are times when I have gotten Walmart Drunk, as I call it, and brought home bags of stuff and it was even more exhausting to put it all away. MY parents didn't have this much stuff for sure, when I was growing up. Take laundry baskets. Ours was wicker. My mother was rich, we had two. I have them now. Plastic ones? I must buy two a year! They crack and break for I leave them somewhere. We never threw out a jar. They were our "Tupperware." We put leftovers in them.

Sometimes I think part of the shopping frenzy in the huge stores has to do with recreation. Face it, for many it is the only walking we do! Now if only it had grass and trees. And if they thought it would sell more plastic, I am sure Walmart would put in grass and trees. I am personally waiting for the Walmart funeral director to set up in the corner there by McDonalds. You could shop and then go check out Aunt Sally and see if she looks natural..but park your buggy. Wouldn't want to be tacky. I guess the undertakers would wear little blue vests with smilies on them.