This "withdrawal from Iraq = surrender" thing

Suppose we made a plan to hand the keys over to the Iraqi government next year, and then executed that plan... how would that be surrender?

I am sick of the GOP rhetoric like "we can't cut and run" or "there are those who want us to surrender..." That's nuts. Surrender requires having some kind of organization to surrender to and then turning control over to that group.

The Iraqi insurgency is pretty loosely organized and there is really (so far as I can see) no central command structure that we COULD surrender to if we wanted to. Plus, even if there were, nobody is suggesting that. Those who favor having an exit strategy are in favor of handing power to the new Iraqi regime. You can't exactly say that we'd, in that case, be "surrendering" to the government we set up.

The whole "withdrawal from Iraq = surrender" thing makes no sense at all.

to find out one is going the wrong way, is it surrender to turn the vehicle around to get back on the correct way?

It is hard to have to listen to my wife tell me, "I told you so." And the GOP will have to hear DU say it loud and clear, "shrub lied, people died. Turn over the keys and let the real adults lead USA back to the light!"

Bush has been very careful to lower the goals in Iraq and refuse to announce any measurable assessment of whether those goals can be reached.

It makes it easy to just declare, "IMO, we've done everything we meant to do. Time to come home."

Bush will be doing just that in a matter of weeks.

Do they think he was a coward who cut and run? Of course not; they're hypocrites.

How many times do we have to declare victory over there before we can leave?

I suggest you set up a Cafe Press store and put that on t-shirts.

"How many times do we have to declare victory over there before we can leave?" -- Great phrase.

Phrases and words that come down from the GOP brass for their minions and media stooges to repeat over and over again until people start to believe it.

Withdrawal of troops="cutting and running"
Letting the Iraqis take care of their own business="surrendering"
Citizens and elected officials who point out the incompetence of shrub's leadership and handling of the war="wimps and cowards"
Going after the leakers in Plamegate="criminalizing politics"
Supporting gay marriage="Destroying traditional family values"

There's a million more like this. It never ends...

Lose = failed terrorist state

Nobody wants this - not even, contrary to what you might have heard, the French

Lose = civil war followed by Iran sponsored Shia dictatorship

Iran's preferred option

I think the wrong word is being used here.

Anyway, I don't think it will come to this, because even if these insurgents drive the US out, the Iraqis can't "can't cut & run". Its them vs the terrorists (sorry, insurgents) The Shia and Kurd militias & Iraqi government will crush this Sunni rebellion. It will be messy........

Making a plan and leaving in stages is actually the best thing we can do. At least 90% of the reason for the insurgency would evaporate if we were to leave.

It's time to leave. The rhetoric was effective in November 2003, but everyone's immune to the "fear of surrender" virus. The only thing left is to convince the politicians and we're half way there.

Here's a link to ten letters on the Commondreams website from November 2003 saying why we should or shouldn't leave:

http://www.commondreams.org/scriptfiles/views03/1107-03.htm

Make sure you read Noam Chomsky's letter.