if you're not ashamed to be an american right now, you should be.

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/1127-26.htm

if you are not ashamed of what america has become in the last five years, maybe you don't possess the emotion of shame. once we lose our collective sense of shame, we are lost as a nation.

torture should make one ashamed to be an american. mass slaughter of innocents is reason for shame. supporting a nazi is reason for shame. acceptance of outing c.i.a. agents is also reason for shame.

we ought to be ashamed of our nation right now, and ashamed of ourselves to a large degree, especially those americans who've so utterly bought into bush's lies and crimes and who condone them, they apparently cannot feel a thing like shame at all, too bad for the rest of us.

i think that's one of the big differences between us and them, we can still feel shame.

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:cry:

Empire trumps shame!

I consider shame an annoying word and emotion.

Forget shame, let's talk solutions.

All shame is a variation of scolding the dog for not going on the paper.

No, I'm ashamed of America. I'm angry we let these criminals pull off a coup, twice.

I didn't vote for that moron. I have contributed to organizations that have opposed him on political, social, economic and environmental issues.
If that offends you or anyone else, best I can tell you is...I never feel shame for something I didn't cause or contribute to.

My taxes go to the Korean government. Not sure why you want to know, but there you are.

picking on you :-)

just finding a spot to insert the point that anyone of us who pays taxes is helping pay for the crimes.

Shame is a subjective emotion, but it is hard for most of us to say we don't share a little responsibility. Not a blame thing at all, it is just that it seems there is always a little bit more we might be doing. At least that is the way I look at my own place in it all.

I was just curious as to why you wanted to know if I paid taxes. Now I know. Thanks.

I pay taxes. Some of those taxes are used to fund policies and programs I vehemently oppose. Other tax dollars are used for policies and programs I support, like public broadcasting, social security and other safety net programs, etc. I don't give repubs who oppose those programs credit for them just because they pay taxes that fund them, and I'm not going to take responsibility for the money that's spent on things that I oppose.

onenote

National War Tax Resistance Coordinating Committee
An outline of IRS practice and procedure specific to war tax resistance
http://www.nwtrcc.org/publications.htm

==============
The War Resisters League
WAR TAX RESISTANCE
— A Guide to Withholding Your Support from the Military —

by Ed Hedemann

Everything you need to know about what is a war tax, philosophical questions, how to stop paying for war, consequences, resisting IRS collection, personal histories, military spending, organizing ideas, resources and support!

Based on experiences of thousands of resisters

https://secure.serve.com/resist/wtr_guide2003.htm

http://www.warresisters.org/piechart.htm



HOW THESE FIGURES WERE DETERMINED

These figures are from a line-by-line analysis of detailed tables in the “Analytical Perspectives” book of the Budget of the United States Government, Fiscal Year 2006. The percentages are federal funds, which do not include trust funds — such as Social Security — that are raised and spent separately from income taxes. What you pay (or don’t pay) by April 15, 2005, goes to the federal funds portion of the budget. The government practice of combining trust and federal funds began in the 1960s during the Vietnam War, thus making the human needs portion of the budget seem larger and the military portion smaller.

“Current military” includes Dept. of Defense ($427 billion), the military portion from other departments ($106 billion), anticipated “supplemental allowance” ($25 billion), and an unbudgetted estimate of supplemental appropriations ($85 billion). “Past military” represents veterans’ benefits plus 80% of the interest on the debt. Analysts differ on how much of the debt stems from the military; other groups estimate 50% to 60%. We use 80% because we believe if there had been no military spending most (if not all) of the national debt would have been eliminated. For further explanation, see box at bottom of this page.


http://www.warresisters.org/

Their schtick is the terrible oprression of White Christian males. While your examples are shameful indeed I side with the "I didn't vote for him crowd." Give me solutions instead of shame, mopaul.

It's doable. We just have to do better.

... I'm not ashamed. I fought these people from the get-go. I won't take some of the blame for what they created. They are responsible, not me.

I'm not ashamed. Those sorry excuses for human beings should be, but, I'm not one of them.

Let them be responsible for what they've done. I'm an American, and they are not. They are the destructors, not builders.

Screw `em. They aren't me. I'm not them.

I have been fighting these fuckers since before they took office! I hate them and everything they stand for and for that I am not ashamed!

and (if) the truths do come out...will we as a nation have the same sense of cumulative shame that the citizens of japan and germany had after ww2?

'how could we have been so stupid'?

..I've said it before in this forum, and I'm not from the US,
"I'm ashamed to be part of the human race sometimes".
So, yes, I do feel shame.

I am New Orleanean... Je suis du pays de la Nouvelle-Orléans!!!

Most people understand that Bush* doesn't speak for the American people, and sympathize, but not everyone...:scared:

I normally agree with you, but not here. I would put this in the context of "family therapy." It is not healthy for one family member to feel shame because of what another family member does. Shame should be limited to what we do. Otherwise, it handcuffs us and keepos us from being able to take the steps we need to in order to make positive changes.

Hell, I'm proud to be an American, knowing my tax dollars are used to undermine every principle this country used to stand for.

the most important thing in my life is whatever it takes to get Dick Cheney's personal weath to staggering new heights.

Vigilante government, already turning on it's own citizens. I may live to see; the American Revolution, Mark II, the 21st century version. When you hear what the American Revolutionaries fought against, it sure sounds like EVERYTHING our government is doing to us right now.

-85% Jimmy

Personally, I am working hard to make changes (not much success, but I work hard!). However, if I were a Repug I would be ashamed.

of what this administration is doing in "our" name and all the nutjobs who support these war crimes (it's not a war, it's a string of war crimes because this "war" is illegal), but I am extremely proud to be counted among those who do not support this administration and its crimes. I am holding onto the America I love, not the bastardized version the world is seeing now, and I'm holding firm to the hope that we can turn this all around. I'm proud to be an American as I define being an American. I don't consider warmongers and torturers Americans.

if a person can unashamedly support bush and his torture war on the innocent, then shame no longer has any meaning. but many words and concepts no longer do now.

The first time was during the Reagan administration after the invasion of Grenada.

I knew that Reagan was just pulling a stunt, because it came right after the bombing of the Marine barracks in Lebanon, in which over 200 Marines were killed.

The previous year, Margaret Thatcher's government in the UK had been losing popularity because of the effect her policies had on the economy, but the Falkland Islands War had gotten so many people in the UK all patriotic and supportive of the Conservative government (from the segment of the population that likes governments to "kick ass," without caring too much whose ass gets kicked).

Seeing how a silly little war over some rocky islands in the South Atlantic (which the Argentine govt. had seized to bolster its own sagging popularity) improved Thatcher's fortunes undoubtedly inspired Reagan to start his own silly little war.

It was SO disappointing to see how the "kick ass" segment of the population, including some of those most likely to be unemployed in the Reagan recession, responded with cheers and flag-waving to a semi-botched invasion of a tiny Caribbean island.