11/28 *** URGENT*** 15 Days to STOP the EXECUTION!

Please support the effort to save Stanley 'Tookie' Williams at http://www.savetookie.org

Please sign the petition for clemency at:
http://www.petitiononline.com/stw4804/petition.html

Another petition:
http://www.petitionthem.com/?sect=detail&pet=2240

To learn more about Tookie and his work on behalf of children and families across the world, visit http://www.tookie.com

Please also call, email, and FAX Gov. Schwarzenegger:

Phone: 916-445-2841

Email: governor@governor.ca.gov

FAX: 916-445-4633

snail mail address:
Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger
State Capitol Building
Sacramento, CA 95814

The execution is scheduled for Dec. 13, one minute after midnight.

For further background, please read the excellent & informative articles posted throughout the following threads:

Nobel Laureates Urge Clemency for Stanley 'Tookie' Williams: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5445949

Laura Flanders (AAR) interviews 'Tookie' Williams advocate, Barbara Becnel
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5461264

Please listen to Laura’s excellent November 26 interview w/Ms. Becnel, It is approximately one hour into the show. Please take the time to listen to it on the archived show:

http://www.airamericaplace.com/archive.php?mode=display... .

Laura interviews a supporter of Mr Williams, who had not supported him before learning all the facts. She is now his co-author and editor, and a supporter.
I believe your hearing it will make a difference.

Please watch this DOAR video in support of clemency for Stanley Tookie Williams:
Video: http://www.doar.com/marketing/Tookie/TOOKIE-VIDEO.wmv

http://www.doar.com/

Tookie's conviction was based entirely on circumstantial evidence.

I ask that if you choose to reply to this thread, please first read articles posted on the previous threads, listen to Laura's interview w/ Barbara Becnel, and also watch the video.

Thank you!

I ask that if you choose to reply to this thread, please first read articles posted on the previous threads, listen to Laura's interview w/ Barbara Becnel, and also watch the video.

thank you


peace

these threads are to ask for support from those who want to give it. not to debate about the case. if you want to debate it, why not start your own threads debating it? it's important enough.

these are for discussion of how to support justice for a man who never received a fair trial. he has been sentenced to execution for being someone who started what was a small local gang at the time. he sees it as a terrible mistake, and works ceaselessly to repair that damage.

execution for starting a gang? think about that.

execution for being black and starting a gang that (he acknowledges, himself) badly compensated for UNDERSTANDABLE (no?) feelings of powerlessness and inequity as a black man in LA in the sixties and seventies. think about that.

kill him for that?

*it has never been proven that he killed. he has never gotten a fair trial to determine that. recent evidence puts his guilt in serious doubt.* do you care at all about that? can we possibly allow this execution to take place, knowing that?!

the point is, *until you will look into the full facts*, please do not fill these well-meaning threads with empty debate, and especially not with uninformed hatred.

thank you


peace!

of the black jurors.

At the time he was convicted, the Crips numbered less than a thousand.

Fingerprints found at the scene were not his, bloody footprints found at the scene were not his, etc. There was never a fair trial in this case.

His work over the past decade has saved thousands of kids from gang life. He can do far more good living than his death could ever accomplish.

How decent of him.

He did NOT create that life. The gang problems you see today were NOT in existence when he was wrongly convicted.

Associating the Crips of 1979 with the way they are today is somewhat like comparing the army of 1776 with what it is today and laying the blame for it's current activities on the founding fathers.

if you have not already, will you please write and call the governor?
and sign the petition? i read that the petition is one of the things that caused the governor to agree to meet with defense lawyers on december 8th.
55,000+ signatures, this morning.

and please pass the word!

thank you!


peace!

"Stan, the many death row prisoners, experienced racism in the
criminal justice system. His prosecutor kicked off all
African-Americans from serving as jurors in Stan's trial,
resulting in Stan being convicted by an all-white jury.

This prosecutor also made numerous racist remarks during the trial,
comparing Stan to a "Bengal Tiger" in the San Diego Zoo whose
natural jungle "habitat" was the equivalent of South Central
Los Angeles."

He has a right to a new trial!

Racism was rampant, police files deliberately left in a paid informant's jail cell to help prepare the informant w/details so that he could testify that Tookie 'confessed' to him... so much more.

and read the LA Times from cover to cover each day.

I learned more from this thread than I ever learned from my televisioon or the Times.

When I tell you it was a low key issue, even in the Black community,it was successfully kept under the radar.

... for Tookie from all walks of life, Nobel Laureates, peace & justice activists, the religious community, the anti-death penalty community, community activists, anti-gang activists, celebrities, and everyone else, including & especially our precious children & youths wanting to avoid/leave gang life, the info is now getting some attention.

updated and able to spread the word.

One can't ignore the absence of black jurors or the racial remarks made by the prosecutor in this case.

Free Tookie!

My mom is calling Arnold's office right now. She is 80 + years and she is so angry with this unfair system!

thank your mom!

it has been criminal to keep the facts suppressed. thank you for spreading the word!

yes!
Free Tookie!


peace!

I'll keep on trying, love the line being tied up.

My phone call did get through however.

from the death penalty (as I am anti-death penalty!), but I do not support freeing him. Not yet. If they prove, in a court of law, that his conviction can not be upheld, then I will support freeing him. But, until that happens, I can not. Many people were killed, and according to our court system (however flawed it may be), he was found guilty of those crimes.

But, I in no way, support the death penalty in this case. (Or any other case.) For that, I will send an email to the Governor, asking for his clemency in this case.

not even presented at trial. It was one of the reasons that his lawyer did not present anyone to testify to mitigating circumstances - because he didn't want the prosecutors to be able to introduce gang info.

You really should read the appeal transcripts.

Again, I am against the death penalty but you really need to argue this on the facts or an appeal to emotion for those who are against the dp.

judgments here.

if convinced he might not have murdered, even that there might be any doubt, they simply resort to, 'well, his gang did plenty bad, blah, crips, blah, blah... '

if you try to reason that Tookie acknowledges that his huge crime was creating crips, an unexpected "frankenstein's monster," they go off on his alleged murder.

maybe if you re-read what i wrote there in that light, you'll know why i said it.

thank you for posting, HopeLives!


peace!

Physical evidence.

You know why?

Because the fingerprints at the scene weren't his. The bloody bootprints at the scene weren't his. There wasn't physical evidence linking him to the crime.

The evidence that convicted him was from a rapist/murderer negotiating a lesser penalty for himself.

The prosecutor was allowed to eliminate black jurors from the jury because they were black. He was allowed to make racist comments during his closing argument.

You really should read the facts.

That's physical.

Someone else who was given leniency in return for their 'testimony'.

And no investigation whatsoever on who the fingerprints or footprints at the crime scenes actually belonged to.

Testimony that he picked up the gun that night. And testimony that was believed by the jury, even knowing the crimes that the people testifying committed.

Criminals hang around with criminals, should testimony not be allowed if a person has a record?

There is no doubt that this guy WAS a bad guy, I don't know why it is beyond the realm of possibility that he is guilty.

I am against the dp but not because I think he is innocent.

Without going into details as to which side of this coin I'm on, I don't need to in order to know that we really don't have the luxury at DU of posting a thread in which everybody responding has to agree with the OP, even at request. If that were rule of thumb then 90% of threads on DU would just be one big lockstepping party. How much fun would that be? :)

Any thread posted on DU should be done so with the understanding that there may well be some who are going to oppose whatever position is in the OP, I would think.

discussion.

thank you.


peace!

"these threads are to ask for support from those who want to give it. not to debate about the case. if you want to debate it, why not start your own threads debating it? it's important enough. "

Thanks.

Peace to you as well.

>these are for discussion of how to support justice for a man who never received a fair trial.

post prior to your "ahem":
>no one was asked to agree. they were asked to learn the facts for the discussion.

OP:
>I ask that if you choose to reply to this thread, please first read articles posted on the previous threads, listen to Laura's interview w/ Barbara Becnel, and also watch the video.

(same reasonable request they trampled, maliciously, the last threads)

telling the purpose of a discussion is not telling people they can not disagree.

magine someone creating a discussion about what cars are best, and several people highjacking the thread repeatedly (a nasty thing to do to the dial-up folks, too), intesely confrontationally, even viciously flaming that cars are bad. no matter how often reminded the purpose of the thread.

i know that that would happen here, too. many here clearly get their jollies trashing serious well-meaning efforts. thing is, the flamers do, yes, have a right to incite trouble. we have a right to ask them not to.

period.

i'm going off a while now. i have way too much agonizing hard work to do to engage in this with you. i am certain you are smarter than what you're making play at.

bye

I also told you I am not debating the issue itself. I also posted my original post in a thoughtful enough manner to have not really warranted a long sub thread.

The fact is, saying something like

" these threads are to ask for support from those who want to give it. not to debate about the case. if you want to debate it, why not start your own threads debating it? it's important enough."

AND

"these are for discussion of how to support justice for a man who never received a fair trial"

most definitely is asking for no dissent. Hell, saying it is for "how to support justice" on its face says those not supporting justice are not really welcome in the thread. Now I appreciate your position and efforts. That's not the problem. I was just making a rational comment that I wouldn't think it to be realistic to think a thread of this nature, regardless of request, would keep others from dissent.

You can disagree, that's fine, but judging from multiple responses I see in this thread, I was right that it in fact wasn't a realistic request.

Good luck in all that you do.

How many murders did he get away with? I have no sympathy for the man.

he needs to fry

I suggest you actually read up on those convictions and how they were obtained. When you start understanding that the only evidence against him was from people who later recanted their testimony which they had only given in the first place to reduce their own sentences (the main testimony against him was from a convicted rapist/murderer who obtained his own relief from the death penalty by testifying against Williams).

Educate yourself.

And it would be especially so in the case of this man. Not only does he regret his actions, he has worked hard to help other young people not to choose such a path. He deserves to live.

I oppose the death penalty for anyone, and I had a close family member who was murdered. Let me tell you, and anyone else who will listen, it DOES NOT HELP THAT THE MURDERER IS EXECUTED. You think it will, but it doesn't. Your loved one is still dead, the void is still there, and someone being executed for it doesn't fill the void.

and has maintained his innocence since his arrest.

should ever be executed while there remains such serious doubt?

it's well documented around these threads. i hope you'll look into it. if you agree there is serious question, i hope you will write and call the governor, and pass the word to others.


peace!

and taking us into an illegal war.

Over 2000 of our children were already killed in Iraq and for what!

And what kind of penalty should he receive?

When he receives equal justice under the law the same way that Tookie receives it, we can talk.

Until than ---- TOOKIE should NOT be put to death.

previous threads!

thank you for all you do, Sapphire Blue!


peace and solidarity!

:kick:

Victims’ Families Call for End to Executions

Statement of Murder Victims’ Families for Human Rights and
The Journey of Hope….From Violence to Healing
on the 1000th Execution

As our country approaches the 1000th execution since 1977, we think about the losses represented by that number. We think of the loss of the life of the murder victim, and the loss to that victim’s family and community. We are people who have experienced that loss directly. The question, “How would you feel if someone in your family were murdered?” is not a hypothetical question for us; it is the reality we must live with every day. But we do not believe that the death penalty will bring us closure, healing, or justice. Another killing does not bring back our family member and it does not make us feel safer. We would like to live in a society that demonstrates its concern for victims by devoting resources to preventing violence and to addressing the real needs of victims in the aftermath of violence.

We think, too, about all the families who have been left behind in the aftermath of 1000 executions: the families of the person who was executed. After 1000 executions, how many parents, siblings, children, and other relatives are left isolated in their grief and lacking the support offered to others who suffer the loss of a family member? It is time to consider the social costs of the death penalty: how many people are affected by a single execution? In particular, how many children?

As families of murder victims and families of people who have been executed, we stand together and declare that it is time to abolish the death penalty.

Murder Victims’ Families for Human Rights and the Journey of Hope…From Violence to Healing are two organizations whose membership includes survivors of homicide victims who are opposed to the death penalty.

Contact information:

Renny Cushing, Executive Director
Murder Victims’ Families for Human Rights
617 491 9600 (0) 617 930-5196 (c)
rrcushing@earthlink.net
www.murdervictimsfamilies.org

Bill Pelke, President
Journey of Hope…From Violence to Healing
877-924-4483 (O) 305-775-5823 (C)
www.journeyofhope.org
bill@journeyofhope.org


http://www.1000executions.org/victims.html

BRIEF OF AMICI CURIAE IN SUPPORT OF
PETITIONER’S WRIT OF CERTIORARI

National Association for the Advancement of Colored
People, Progressive Jewish Alliance, Muslim Public Affairs
Council, Chinese for Affirmative Action, American Friends
Service Committee, Friends Committee on Legislation of
California, Interfaith Communities United for Justice and
Peace, Office of Restorative Justice for the Archdiocese of
Los Angeles, Lawyers’ Committee for Civil Rights, Ella
Baker Center For Human Rights, National Association of
Criminal Defense Lawyers, and Death Penalty Focus
submit this amici curiae brief in support of the Petitioner,
Stanley Williams.1

<snip>

STATEMENT OF THE CASE

A single jury drawn from a narrow segment of Los
Angeles County convicted Stanley Williams of four counts
of robbery-murder arising from two separate incidents. In
one, Williams, who is African American, was convicted of
killing a Caucasian convenience store clerk in Whittier,
California. In the other, Williams was convicted of killing
three Asian Americans, members of a family that owned a
motel in South Central Los Angeles. Nearly all of the
evidence against Williams consisted of testimony from
jailhouse informants and immunized accomplices, exactly
the type of evidence that is the leading cause of wrongful
convictions in death penalty cases. Center for Wrongful
Convictions, The Snitch System: How Snitch Testimony
Sent Randy Steidl and Other Innocent Americans to
Death Row, available at http://www.law.northwestern.edu /
wrongfulconvictions (viewed June 29, 2005). Williams has
always asserted that he is innocent of these crimes.
Despite the weak nature of the evidence against him, the
jury sentenced Williams to death.

The record shows that, during voir dire in Williams’
trial, the prosecutor deliberately used his peremptory
challenges to remove all of the potential jurors who were
identified on the record as African-American. The prosecutor
used two of 19 strikes to exclude the only two African-
American women called as potential jurors. He then used
one of three strikes to exclude the only African-American
man called as a potential alternate juror. As a result, the
prosecutor effectively precluded every person identified on
the record as African American from serving as a juror or
alternate juror in Williams’ trial.

This was not the first time this prosecutor had engaged
in overt, race-based jury selection. Indeed, after the
Williams trial, the California Supreme Court would
reverse two death sentences precisely because this same
prosecutor engaged in racially biased jury selection. People
v. Turner, 42 Cal.3d 711, 714, 726 P.2d 102, 103, 230
Cal.Rptr. 656, 657 (1986); People v. Fuentes, 54 Cal.3d 707,
721, 818 P.2d 75, 83, 286 Cal.Rptr. 792, 800 (1991). In one
of these cases, the Court reversed the conviction on the
grounds that the trial court failed to use the correct
standard in evaluating the prosecutor’s proffered reasons
for the challenges. In a concurring opinion, Justice Stanley
Mosk stated:


I believe we must place the ultimate blame on
its real source – the prosecutor. It was he who
unconstitutionally struck Black prospective jurors.
The record compels this conclusion and
permits none other. . . . This prosecutor knew
that such conduct was altogether improper. The
trial court told him as much. And so did we. Only a
few months earlier, in People v. Turner (1986) 42
Cal.3d 711 . . . this court attempted to teach the
same prosecutor that invidious discrimination was
unacceptable when we reversed a judgment of
death because of similar improper conduct on his
part. He failed – or refused – to learn his lesson.


http://www.deathpenalty.org/pdf_files/WilliamsSCOTUSAmi...

... please see this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5464733

discussing over there. that's good.


peace!

... and for trying to keep Tookie alive!

This man has made a huge impact on thousands of inner city kids living in poverty stricken areas. He's written books on the danger of gang violence and promotes a peaceful, hopeful alternate to drugs and crime.

We are the only industrialized country that still allows the barbaric practice of legalized murder. Tookie Williams will continue to contribute to the younger generation with his writings and messages, execution would be a tragedy. I highly recommend his book, BLUE RAGE, BLACK REDEMPTION.

Please contact Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, Tookie Williams will continue to be a powerful inspiration for the kids, execution is NOT the answer. Redemption is possible.

--------------------------------------------------------
Part of a press release dated 9/20/05

"Stan, the many death row prisoners, experienced racism in the
criminal justice system. His prosecutor kicked off all
African-Americans from serving as jurors in Stan's trial,
resulting in Stan being convicted by an all-white jury. This
prosecutor also made numerous racist remarks during the trial,
comparing Stan to a "Bengal Tiger" in the San Diego Zoo whose
natural jungle "habitat" was the equivalent of South Central
Los Angeles.

The right for prosecutors to exclude jurors on the basis of race and to denigrate minority defendants in front of all-white juries. This ruling
is a frontal attack on the civil rights of all Americans."

I hope it works this time, because I have done it before, and he let the execution go forward. I do think this time there is real hope.

But I will wait until closer to the date. I am going to email again, too, and get my friends and family to email. He just has to grant clemency on this one...there is no way to rationalize this execution.

And thanks for advising me of the date. And please keep reminding DU... I will be more than happy to help keep a thread kicked, so we can organize a lot of calls just before the hearing.

-- Set up an information table about Stan's case. Hand out fact sheets and collect signatures on petitions asking Schwarzenegger to grant clemency. Make cell phones available for people to call the governor's office on the spot. Set up a laptop so that people can e-mail the governor right there and then. Schwarzenegger's phone is 916-445-4633, and his e-mail address is governor@governor.ca.gov

-- Hold a press conference with community organizers, campus groups and others involved in the fight for social justice.

-- Organize a rally or picket in your city. Call a campus speakout to "save the peacemaker."

-- Hold a screening of Redemption: The Stan Tookie Williams Story.

-- Organize a teach-in on "The Power of Redemption: The Case of Stan Tookie Williams." Host a former death row prisoner to speak in your city or on your campus.

-- Write a letter or story about Stan's case for local or school newspapers, and contact local radio stations to do a segment on Stan.

-- Run a signature ad in your school or community paper.

-- Organize a spoken word event for Stan, a "Rock for Tookie" concert with local bands to raise funds for Stan's defense, or a mock trial focusing on the injustices of the death penalty.

-- Be creative. Come up with your own ideas to get the word out and build support.

For more information about the Save Tookie campaign or to download petitions and fact sheets, visit the Save Tookie and Campaign to End the Death Penalty Web sites. Be sure to send information about the activities you plan to Save Tookie Web site.

-----------------------

Excellent article:

-snip-

"Blacks being kicked off the jury, the prosecutor using jungle language in his closing, saying that jurors could go to the zoo to see animals like Stan--that is not okay. Racism has been reduced to a 'harmless error'--that's what they say happened in Stan's case and the cases of many, many people on death row. We need to stand up and say that we won't allow racism to be dismissed as a harmless error.

"Show up and stand up today--for Stan and for all of us."

http://www.counterpunch.org/ruder11262005.html

:kick:

More:

"He has been nominated for five Nobel Prizes, and one of his books won two national honors. Earlier this year, he received a Presidential Call to Service Award from none other than George Bush.

The "Tookie Protocol for Peace: A Local Street Peace Initiative" has moved tens of thousands of youth and formed the basis for gang truces in several cities. Some 70,000 people have sent e-mails to the SaveTookie.org Web site to thank Stan for providing them with the inspiration and motivation to leave gang life behind.

"So many preachers, politicians and law enforcement officers talk about stopping gang violence, but they don't have any experience of it,'' Najee Ali, a former gang member-turned-community activist, told a reporter. "But when you have the founder of the most well-known gang in history, it speaks a lot.''

Email: governor@governor.ca.gov

constraint!


peace!

:kick"

Nor does the family of one of his victims:

Victim's Family: Let 'Tookie' Die
The Associated Press
Published: November 21, 2005
SANTA CLARA, Calif.—A day after death row inmate Stanley Tookie Williams addressed a youth group, the daughter of one of the people he murdered offered the students the victim’s side of the death penalty debate.

Rebecca Owens said Sunday that family members had told her that her father’s killer had been executed. But four years ago, she learned Williams was alive and had been nominated for a Nobel Prize.

“It literally almost destroyed my life because of my own anger,” Owens, 35, told the gathering of 1,200 high school students attending the Junior State of America convention. “I was just flabbergasted. How could the man who co-founded the Crips be nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize. What in the world?”

Owens did not say whether she believes Williams should be executed for the 1979 murders of her father, Albert Owens, and three others, or whether she agreed with the jury that sentenced him to die. She encouraged the students to get all the facts before making decisions.

more: http://www.sacunion.com/pages/california/articles/6911/

the facts omitted in MSM, oppose this wrongful execution.

all 81,000 DUers, minus trolling freepers, of course.

please look into the facts. where there is ANY doubt - and evidence shows there is much very serious doubt - an execution MUST NOT proceed.

do you not agree?


peace!

Once again, RESEARCH THE CASE. What she actually said was "Make an informed decision. What bad can come from having all the facts?"

That's something you've abjectly failed to do, make an informed decision. Coerced evidence, racially biased jury, evidence obtained from the most unreliable method possible (people trying to bargain their own sentence down from death to life imprisonment making up stories), physical evidence pointing toward a different perpetrator, the list goes on.

In fact, nowhere in the article is the sentiment reflected in that headline conveyed. Did you read the article or just post it because you want to see someone executed for a crime they may not have actually committed and the headline fit your agenda?

I would prefer he pay the price for that crime.

I'll write the governor, but not to urge clemency.

or progressive will clamor for a man to be killed when there is the slightest possibility that he might have been wrongly convicted.

Coerced testimony, witnesses who didn't actually see the crime but are bargaining for their own relief from a death sentence by saying they have first hand knowledge, physical evidence that points to a different perpetrator, an illegal racial bias in the jury, all indicate that a fair trial was never granted in this case.

There is something severely wrong with a society that will urge the execution of a man when there is the slightest doubt as to his guilt.

"There is something severely wrong with a society that will urge the execution of a man when there is the slightest doubt as to his guilt."

and how many failed?

man had already been executed for a crime he did not commit had the same number of appeals. Educate yourself.

So tell us Walt, are you in favor of sentencing people to death based only on the word of other convicted criminals who are bargaining for their own lives and who are not eyewitnesses to the crimes in question? Are you in favor of allowing prosecutors to make racist comments during their closing statements? How about willfully excluding all African American jurors? What about omitting physical evidence that points to another perpetrator?

How about the case of Nicholas Yarris who spent 21 years on death row in PA only to be released and found innocent. Twenty-one years. Went through all the appeals, etc. He damn near payed the ultimate price for someone elses wrongful prosecution.

Here's a little clue for you, a court refusing to hear an appeal does not equate to an appeal, it means that through legal loopholes, a prosecutor was able to persuade a court not to hear a case. That's all.

Once again, when you've educated yourself on the actual facts of the case, come back and talk to me, until then, you're just repeating talking points with less substance than a Limbaugh rant.

I see no reason to grant clemency for Tookie. None.

You obviously prefer to stand by old-style Southern "justice" where a black man can be convicted by an all white jury on second-hand evidence from jailhouse informants that weren't actual witnesses to a crime.

What you are supporting isn't the death penalty, you are supporting executing a man who has never received a fair trial. You can't have a fair trial when all the evidence isn't presented in court. When the fingerprints at the scene of the crime belong to someone else. When bloody footprints at the scene of the crime belong to someone else. When there is no physical evidence linking the suspect to the scene of the crime.

You are advocating killing someone based on the testimony of a convicted murder/rapist who was testifying in order have the death sentence eliminated as a possibility in his own prosecution.

If you see no reason, then you haven't read a damn thing related to the case. You see "black" "gang member" "Los Angeles" and you say "guilty."

I do not support clemency for this man.

And I just completed an email to the governor stating so.

killer off.

Sorry, I believe in our system, even if you do not.

... or any man or woman for that matter, are more appealing?

I believe in justice and mercy, even if you do not. This current system is neither just nor merciful.

Pronouncing a death penalty is society saying the crimes were so egregious and so beyond common humanity that the person who committed the crimes should no longer be allowed in human society at any level. Thus they are put to death.

It is all about JUSTICE.

This man was on tape shooting out the security camera of a 7-11 just moments before putting two shots into the back of the victim.

Two weeks later he killed a man, his wife, and daughter in a motel office over $100.

His crimes are so egregious that nothing he does can alter the fact that he no longer belongs in human society at any level, including the society of prison for life with no parole.

The death penalty is the ONLY justice that can be found in this case.

I wish you mercy.

I guess the truth of the case hurts.

bothered to look into it?

sad it's too much to ask of you for the sake of Justice.

Justice doesn't involve killing someone when there's the slightest possibility they are innocent of the crime.

He's interested in killing a gang member because he's a gang member.

If he was interested in justice, he'd spend more than 30 seconds actually reading the facts of the case and the history of other such cases instead of saying "he didn't win his appeals, he must be guilty" he'd look at the fact that the blatant racism displayed at trial and the blatant disregard for justice shown throughout the appeal process is an atrocity that should not be allowed to stand.

Instead, despite numerous cases proving the contrary (112 people convicted to die have been released in the past 30 years, many have been executed and later found to be innocent of the crime), he would rather believe that the "justice" system in this country is flawless and kill someone now rather than allow a real, fair trial to occur.

I find it astounding that anyone who realizes that essentially the same Supreme Court that put Bush in office ruled against Williams could find that ruling credible.

good at staying cool. i'm here shaking.

i must just not let that attitude get to me so much.


peace!

I won't go to biased sites with the expressed goal of freeing this heinous killer.

The DP is about justice. Some times crimes are so heinous (such as in this case) when the only just thing to do is take the perpetrator completely out of all levels of human society forever.

He was convicted and every last appeal has failed.

that had just as many appeals. If there is the SLIGHTEST doubt, allowing an execution to take place is an atrocity. If there is proof positive found the day after he's executed that he did not kill those people, are you going to call him up and apologize for sanctioning his murder?

And I'll email, fax, and call the governor's office to offer my support to not grant clemency.

Anyone who bases their bloodlust on a lack of actual information isn't worthy of my time or attention.

The ignore list is a handy thing.

Not even in Tulia, Texas, eh? http://www.pbs.org/now/society/herbert.html

But, of course you will not read the info on that link regarding Tulia, Texas, just as you will not read any of the info on Tookie's case.

Your mind seems to be closed to anything other than what you want to believe. That says a lot. It is sad.

I'll just keep doing it throughout the day.

Good news is it is busy!!

will keep trying.

i will too.


peace!

Your efforts are going to be falling on deaf ears, sadly.

the arguments on the 8th.

if we all keep writing and calling and faxing and sign the petition, it will be more hopeful. please do any or all of those that you will!

Please sign the petition for clemency at:
http://www.petitiononline.com/stw4804/petition.html

Another petition:
http://www.petitionthem.com/?sect=detail&pet=2240

Please also call, email, and FAX Gov. Schwarzenegger:

Phone: 916-445-2841

Email: governor@governor.ca.gov

FAX: 916-445-4633

snail mail address:
Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger
State Capitol Building
Sacramento, CA 95814

***

thank you, LiberalPersona!


peace!

obviously researched and obtained knowledge of the case that is unfilted by bias . . . oh wait, no it's not, that was a statement based on ignorance and complete lack of information or research.

at people unwilling to educate themselves on the facts of the case.

clear, concise points, which, having been met by belligerent ignorance, stated, simply, the only possible remaining logic.

he chooses ignorance. and arrogantly proud of it.

anyone who *wanted* to get the picture would have from your thread of reasoning.
and you have given people matter with which to write and call the governor, or media, including me.
which is, after all, what this thread really is about.


i enjoyed the clarity, very much.
thank you!


peace!

Our children are too precious to discard.

so very hard, then have someone just crap all over it, for his own infantile amusement.

watching you and ET Awful educating this man so very well, offering him exactly the pieces that came together into inarguable facts and conclusions, only to have him diddle hmself with it, was nauseating me, literally.

you and ET Awful turned and said "no more waste on him" at the same time.

what you have done is provide us all with a massive amount of information, and reasoning, to have a very clear picture of what we need to express, and words to express it, to the governor and the media.

you have educated so well, over these days of amazing threads, Sapphire Blue!!

thank you thank you so much!!

maybe we all just have to decide: no more waste for the happily, no, smugly ignorant. we got enough work to do!


peace!

been THEIR victims, the number of lives and families spared from tragedy as a result of his work increases exponentially.

Anyone who believes that gangs wouldn't exist today if not for Williams is sadly misinformed. Anyone who believes that he "created" the gang lifestyle is sadly misinformed. Anyone that believes that killing him will stop gang violence is woefully ignorant. Anyone that believes that it is better to kill him than to allow him to save more lives is sadly lacking in clarity and foresight.

And Tookie's own words...



Our children are too precious to discard.

"Our children are too precious to discard." yes!


peace!

changes the extreme nature of his crimes.

Nothing will undo a single life that he took. Nothing. Nothing will undo the horrendous consequences of his participating in the founding of the Crips. There is no doubt.

At this point, we have two options: Either "He lives and does what he can to improve the world as it is now" Or "He dies and does nothing."

Either we let him live and benefit from what he can do to improve our world - or - we don't.

The people he works with don't have a whole lot of people who want to help them. They don't have a whole lot of people who want to be in the same room with them.

I say we use him - selfishly use him - use what he can do for people that he is uniquely capable of reaching. His message is the message that I want carried to all youth.

That's the way I stand on this issue.

that he denied his victims.

I am glad that he choose to use his remaining years to write childrens books, and to dissuade kids from joining the murderous street gangs that he created.

But the fact remains that his victims did not have a chance to write childrens books. They didnt have a chance to get nominated for a Nobel Prize. And Tookies evil gang continues to kill and terrorize people. The gang that tookie founded has terrorized tens of thousands.


My first sympathys go out to his victims and the victims of his gang.

Have Mercy on his victims

Here's a little clue for you. Tookie didn't invent gangs, they existed before the Crips came into being. When he was arrested in 1979, there were fewer than 1000 members of the gang that he helped form.

It was not the gang that you know of today, and it was nowhere near what it would become.

If you think he invented the idea of street gangs, you need to pick up a book and start reading sometime.

It isn't "his" gang and hasn't been for a very long time.

Blaming him for what those who came after him did is like blaming the founding fathers for the actions of George Bush.

Educate yourself.

Those FOUR murders were just a misunderstanding during a midnight financial transaction.

Besides, he had to shoot them in the back of the head for self defense.

Sure he joked about their deaths and the sounds they made as they died. But thats just Gallows humor. Tookie is no different than a surgeon, or coroner who sometimes make inappropriate jokes that rubes like us would never understand.

And while his organization has killed thousands, its hardly fair to hold him responsible, just because he founded the organization, and still regularly associates with his members.

He wrote a childrens book, therefore he is innocent.

You haven't bothered to educate yourself at all.

Regularly associates? How exactly does he do that? No proven contacts since prior to 2000. There was one alleged contact, but it was disproven in 2000. Of course, you wouldn't know that because you haven't bothered to educate yourself.

So you've gone from saying that Williams invented gangs (an outright fabrication) to repeating testimony from jailhouse informants trying to get their own sentences reduced or trading testimony for immunity.

Educate yourself, when you do, come back and let me know. Until then, I've nothing more to say to someone who remains voluntarily ignorant.

I didnt condemn him, nor do I have the power to save him.

However I do have sympathy, for his victims.

""Despite the overwhelming nature of the evidence against him, and despite the nonexistence of any credible defense, Stanley Williams steadfastly refused to take any responsibility for the brutal, destructive and murderous acts he committed," according to the statement. "Without such responsibility, there can be no redemption, there can be no atonement, and there should be no mercy.""


http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-111705tookie_lat,0,7854003.story?coll=la-home-headlines


I have to say, the fact that he hasnt yet taken responsibility for his crimes, is evidence that he has not yet redeemed himself, despite how many books he has written.

Officers from the same department that carries numerous convictions for perjury? You mean police officers with a department with a long and proven track record of racism? Those officers?

How about Stacey Koon? Are you talking about officers like him? Laurence Powell maybe? They're shining examples of the credibility of the LAPD.

Last I heard, the racist cops you mentioned were outed and are no longer LA cops.

LA cops have their share of problems.

But when it comes down to the word of the LA police department, versus the leader of the Crips, its an easy choice.

I have only recently gotten interested in a case myself where someone who I am convinced is innocent could likely be executed within the next couple of years.

I genuinely do not understand how anyone who considers themselves a liberal or progressive could support the death penalty. It is sad.

America is the only modern industrialized society that practices the death penalty yet we by far have the highest murder rate of the modern industrialized world. Even most conservative parties in Europe oppose it.

Years ago it would have been unimaginable for liberals to support the death penalty. I our guess values and principles have died in the gas chambers and electric chairs as well.

People who consider themselves liberal supporting the death penalty. People who consider themselves pro-life supporting the death penalty.

Hypocritical is more like it.

I could consider myself the Queen of England... but I sure as hell ain't gonna get into the palace.

and believed prisoners should always be treated humainly. But, that was a different era, I guess.

taken aback by, "America is the only modern industrialized society that practices the death penalty yet we by far have the highest murder rate of the modern industrialized world," because it is true, clear, and overlooked! how could that be? thank you for making that equation bold for me!

about liberals and the death penalty. i have been shocked. hurt. thank you for getting it about that, too.

i am sorry to hear of the person you know in that circumstance. have you heard of The Innocence Project? i hope you'll check it out and see if they can assist that person. i hope they can.

thank you!


peace!

actually it is a famous case I only learned the actual horrifying details about recently and have contributed to --the case of Damien Echols of the
West Memphis three

http://www.wm3.org

but I am sure there are
countless cases all over America that are buried in the system and nobody will ever hear much about and no celebrities will ever hold fund-raisers for.

Tookie's positive contribution to our children today is too precious to discard. Our children are too precious to discard.

:kick:

Laura Flanders (AAR) Nov. 26 interview w/Ms. Becnel: http://www.airamericaplace.com/archive.php?mode=display&id=2954

it's excellent and so informative!

thank you for posting that, Sapphire Blue!


peace!

Williams sounds like a man whose life can still have a positive impact while his death would be utterly pointless. There are times when justice requires wisdom tempered with truth. This is one of them. Williams' case illustrates the notion that rehabilitation is an important part of our criminal justice system. Genuine examples should be celebrated. I hope Arnold commutes the sentence.

you said it: "Williams' case illustrates" that rehabilitation works.

"I hope Arnold commutes the sentence."

yes!

breath-holding.

the 8th, the governor and the lawyers meet...

please write, call, fax, sign the petition, and pass the word!

thank you!


peace!

so much as a certain individual who pursed his lips in mock desperation and whimpered "please don't kill me."

I'll give you three guesses who I'm referring to.

take the time to contact the governor and ask him to spare this man's life. There are a number of reasons, all of which are valid, for people doing this. It can be rooted in opposition to the death penalty; concerns about the racial overtones of the case; as well as the possibility that the man is innocent of the charges.

It seems that some DUers insist upon trying to derail the thread, and get it mired in an hostile debate about gang violence, and the hatred and fear that have infected America's soul. One person responded to the request that this thread be allowed to stay focused on saving his life, by saying DU is about debate, and that there should be room for differences of opinion. There is room for such differences: threads debating the value of capital punishment; the role of racism in the legal system; the frequency of innocent people being convicted; the dangers of gangs; and the pain of being victimized by violent thugs -- these are all potentially good.

But DU should also be about respecting others' opinions. It should include having personal boundries, where you don't feel free to try to insult other peoples' values. It should include respecting other peoples' efforts to organize fellow DUers in an effort they feel is important.

There is plenty of room for differences of opinion on DU. There is good reason for mutual respect for even those who disagree on things you feel strongly about.