If "Freedom isn't Free",then why don't corporations and the rich pay taxes

?

the rich have been over taxed. Never mind the reality that rich have more loop holes to avoid paying taxes, they need more breaks then the working man. What gets me is the sheepicans that actually believe that the rich are over taxed.

I wouldn't know anymore, assuming I ever believed them in the first place. Since when can a person truly believe any politician anyway? But the last 25 years has only made politicians more lax in terms of bothering to cover up their lies. Today they donh't even bother to anymore.

Just like the generals and admirals who demand new toys and take "advisory" positions with the arms makers when they retire.

rigged to their advantage. They even use this as an argument for lowering taxes on the wealthy. They say that an advantage from lowering taxes on the wealthiest Americans will stop the tax cheats. I think they're full of shit. I was speaking to an in-law-of-an-law at a Thanksgiving party. This guy is an arch typical right-wing Bush backer. Some kind of pal of J.Dennis Hastert(I know this to be true).
ALL this guy ever talks about is being taxed to death. He makes millions per year in manufacturing. He tells me that in the end, he pays about 28% in taxes. This doesn't sound like being taxed to death to me. He talks about how he views his tax situation in terms of being outraged that guys like him, guys that are players in the economy, are being robbed by the government, and "those at the bottom" don't shoulder any of this nation's tax burden. These guys just want to use the muscle they have to give themselves a payday by taxing the wealthy less and less.

He uses the highways to move goods and materials, he probably ships and travels to business meetings by air using the airports and traffic control system. The legal system protects his intellectual property. He uses the electrical grid that supplies his factory, the streets and roads that get his workers there ready to work every day. The airwaves that allow him to advertise his products, the various standards the government sets that allow him build stuff that will work with other stuff, a workforce that is healthy and educated enough to work in his factory. The police and fire departments that protect him, his home, his factory, and his workers, etc, etc, etc.

In short, he wouldn't be making those millions if it weren't for the stuff taxes pay for. He should be on-his-knees grateful that he gets all that for 28%.

But like most repigs, he thinks all that should just be granted to him by virtue of being in business. Talk about an entitlement mentality this guy makes the stereotypical "welfare queen" look positively self-reliant.

He uses the highway to move goods? Then he would pay for more gas (and gasoline taxes) than most, would he not? He ships and travels by air? He pays taxes on his travel as well. He pays all sorts of assorted fees to the government to file, renew, search, update, maintain and process paperwork for patents. He pays for the electricity he uses, which goes in part to support the national grid. The money he pays to use the airwaves to advertise his products enables networks to provide programming to everyone (for better or worse) for free. Depending on the specific industry he's in, it may not be the government, but some other organization that provides the standards (like the IEEE which one pays to be a member of). Again, depending on the industry, his taxes may not pay for ANY of his employees health care if the employer provides a private plan. His property taxes on industrial zoned land help to pay for the fire and police.

And it's not like the community at large doesn't benefit more from a business (jobs, local spending, increased local tax base) than it would from "welfare queens". I'm not saying business shouldn't be thankful for government help, it just seems to me like you were making the argument that business is a giant drain on public resources and gives nothing back.

My point is that business, in many cases, benefits more from the public infrastructure, than do individuals. Using the highway system as an example, business will use it to move finished goods and raw materials, I use it to get back and forth to work; both of those uses benefit the business. I may also benefit from the use of the highway, but to me it is merely a convenience; to the business it is a necessity. Who then should pay for a greater percentage of it's cost?

When I mentioned "healthy...employees", I'm referring not to direct individual health care costs, but rather the overall health of the population from things like clean water, safe food, disease vector control, etc; all things provided by tax payers

To be sure a business, it's workers and the surrounding community are a symbiotic relationship. But the republican mantra is that business is over-taxed when the reality is that many businesses simply wouldn't be able to conduct their business without the tax-supported infrastructure.

My point was that businesses DO pay for these resources in various ways (gasoline taxes for one). Also, along the lines of symbiosis, yes a business uses highways to ship goods. Goods that people buy. It helps BOTH the individual and the company. You benefit from the highways not just when you use them, but when a product you buy use them.

You could certainly argue that a company benefits from the "overall health" of it's employees, and I would agree, but how is a company's benefit greater than the individual's in this case? A business can replace me, but I cannot replace my own body. It is a greater interest to me that I am healthy than to the company I work for. While I would like businesses to pay more for these things, I find it hard to make the argument that it benefits them more than individuals.

BOTH benefit!

from working, then he does.

He gets an awful lot for a couple of million in taxes.
The only thing I can commend this guy for is the fact that he pays his employees well. A couple of my wife's family members work for him, and they've told me it's a good gig.

of the tax-supported services and infrastucture than individuals do.

as an expense...that's how "they" don't pay taxes.

to be true. Corporations know they cannot just pass on their taxes to the consumers unless they are a monopoly, otherwise a competitor that is willing to accept less profit in order to gain market share will come along and undercut them.
This is even more of a disadvantage if the competitor is a small business that doesn't have the 25% - 40% extra overhead that the big boys do.
Don't buy it, it is another RW lie. :kick:

Also, another note, Corporations use more natural resources, tear up the public roads more, and use most of the utilities, than the average citizen. So they should also be taxed at a much higher rate than the average citizen as well.

or putting limits on profit margins, the government can and should do that if said companies try to pass on the cost to the customer.

go to? :shrug:

Obviously the rich and corporations must have been paying some taxes before Bush became President, otherwise they would not have had any taxes to cut. If the rich and corporations are currently paying no taxes, then any further taxes must benefit the poor and middle classes, Right?

dramatic (ironic?) emphasis. They did pay some taxes before the cuts. However the kinds of loopholes, shelters and offshore havens available to them are not to you & me. Nevertheless, they lobbied for and received a substantial Bush tax cut. Do they not want to support "freedom" (which, as they will tell you, is not free)?

Second. Are you familiar with the concept of "progressive taxation"? Do you agree with it? Although the tax code does have a progressive tilt to it, after including all cuts, loopholes, sales tax, etc, the US has an effectively flat tax.

Sorry.... I couldn't tell if you were joking, uninformed or a winger!

"some taxes" indeed.

You wanna piece of my pie?
I'm a rich republican don't try.
you have nothing to eat?
"you're free to compete"..
so solve your own problems or die

Is it those at the top who received tax cuts on the backs of future generations? Is it the private contractors raking in billions of dollars for Iraq and Katrina? Maybe...is it the Insurance Industry that hikes rates at breakneck speed; or the Oil Industry who is reportedly making record NET profits at a time of catastropic disaster? Did I overlook the hundreds of thousands of sons and daughters from the uber-well-off volunteering their sons and daughters?

Didn't think so.

we working peasants should not be asking rude questions about tax cuts given to wealthy corporations and individuals. Because it's my understanding that take all the money they save on taxes, and use it to create more jobs...somewhere else.

when it ends at their responsibility to ante up at home.

that's for sure.

Jeez, what part of "they're just following the law" don'tcha get?

/sarcasm

then helps who it wants to help, their favorites. Even farmers get subsidized by the government.

Thomas Jefferson (Liberal, pinko) said:

If a people want to be ignorant and free, they want what never was and never will be.

Ditto-head, lock-stepped, slogan-slinging, groupthink isn't holding up a citizen's end of the bargain. Eternal vigilance against the abuse of power is the cost of freedom.

of paying taxes, rather than continually trying to find ways NOT to?"

What would you do
If you were asked to give up your dreams for freedom
What would you do
If asked to make the ultimate sacrifice

Would you think about all them people
Who gave up everything they had.
Would you think about all them War Vets
And would you start to feel bad

Freedom isn't free
It costs folks like you and me
And if we don't all chip in
We'll never pay that bill
Freedom isn't free
No, there's a hefty fuckin' fee.
And if you don't throw in your buck 'o five
Who will?

What would you do
If someone told you to fight for freedom.
Would you answer the call
Or run away like a little pussy
'Cause the only reason that you're here.
Is 'cause folks died for you in the past
So maybe now it's your turn
To die kicking some ass

Freedom isn't free
It costs folks like you and me
And if we don't all chip in
We'll never pay that bill
Freedom isn't free
Now there's a have to hook'in fee
And if you don't throw in your buck 'o five
Who will?

You don't throw in your buck 'o five. Who will?
Oooh buck 'o five
Freedom costs a buck 'o five

-Trey Parker