Give me your best persuasion as to why banning abortion would kill the GOP

This is a point I never quite understood fully and want to make sure I'm not missing something.

Each time I think about this point, the side of the coin I see is people saying that the issue would kill the GOP because this issue is what brings out the fundie voters en masse. Ok, I agree there. But what I don't get is why if they accomplished their mission, they would come out with any less force.

Wouldn't the repubs just taunt the line "we faught so hard to finally get america back to its values blah blah, and candidate x is trying to take it away from us. Don't let them undo all of our hard work and put us back to immorality blah blah"

If they did that, wouldn't the fundies still come out in force? Isn't fighting to keep what you have as motivating as fighting to get it in the first place? If this is so, should we be not so quick to dismiss the potential of the GOP actually banning abortion? Or am I totally missing something?

Thanks in advance for your insight.

is for keeping Roe V Wade as it is whether they are personally for abortion or not.

...the fact that they'll NEVER ban it because it's too valuable a political tool - and we damn well need to make sure the voters realize this.

NGU.

It scares me sometimes when the thought enters my head that what if they are truly trying to ban it and catch us offguard ya know? What if they feel it could still be just as valuable a political tool to keep it as status quo as it was to fight for it to be in the first place?

I do realize that it takes more than just overturning Roe Vs Wade, as they would need to then ban it as well, but it just scares me sometimes with the state of the supreme court and this administration how close we could be to warping back to the dark ages.

..."with the state of the supreme court and this administration." This will be but one catastrophe in a long line of catastrophes if we don't stop them now. But we can't dwell on the "what-ifs." We need to strategically do what we can here and now.

NGU.

I like the way you think. And I just let out a big sighhhhhhhh at the realization of how long that line of catastrophe already is. I am doing whatever I can to help make sure that we can win in 06, and pray so hard our efforts as a whole pay off. I don't think I could think of a more truly inspirational thought in my bones than the day we take back the house and senate. But lord knows we still have much work to do.

Abortion would become an immediate political battle across all 50 states with women being confronted with a VERY important decision. Right now, it's just a right. Nothing to worry about. Or at least not a big enough issue to cut through the mountains of media bullshit that we are bombarded with every day.

Democrats would pick up MANY, MANY voters and energize their base. The Republican strategists do NOT want this to happen. The Fauxnamentalists DO. If they get their way, they'll find out exactly how large a minority they actually are!!!

in which they actually pull the trigger on the issue is if the fundies finally get smart & essentially say to some future Puggy, "OK--you guys been playing around with this for too long. do it NOW or we're all gonna sit out the next election."

A big, gaping rift between the fundies and the corporatists.

:evilgrin:

NGU.

I'm not at all sure that the Fundy leaders--Robertson, Falwell, Swaggart, etc.--want to lose abortion as an issue either. It keeps those donations rolling in and all. I think the Fundy leadership is about as sincere in their beliefs as Shrub.

Ack! I just had an image of Robertson with his eyes all squinted up, praying for Jeeeeeeeeezuz to punish someone for something. God, he looked like he was constipated & trying to squeeze out a big one with rough edges.

After "banning" abortion, they will campaign to end birth control, etc.

they will always find a new issue.

Why not do it right now. Instead they're trying to sneak it in through the back door.

Oh please Republicans, make all your freaky proposals out in the open and we'll kick your asses!!!

And BTW--it just struck me as I hit the "Post" button that maybe we should be framing this as a privacy issue rather than a choice issue. Seems more compelling somehow, and more resistant to the "It's an unborn child, it's not a choice" line.

If you have your way, you are complacent. There is nothing to be angry or pissed off about. This is why Republicans are so keen to create the bizarre impression that christians are somehow discriminated against in the US. You have to keep your people angry.

Honestly, we got a lot political gains on the cheap through the courts. While it's great that these rights were affirmed, and in my opinion the founders would approve, it leads us open to the accusations that they are somehow anti-democratic.

The "strict-constructionist" are all hypocritical conservatives who only lock onto the mantra when something is fairly literal and they agree with it. Ask them about the status of corporations as people under the equal protection clause and they will likely change the subject. Same goes for Bush v. Gore.

Remember the 60s?? That was the result of people's rights being trampled upon. That was what you can do when people legitamitely feel oppressed. What, overturn Roe v. Wade. No, that's not a law, that's a constitutional right! Why bother to show up to the polls?

Alito is a sure fire freeper. Roberts seems more like a social moderate but a corporate fascist. The court may not have been tipped. But if it has, it really will be happy days for Democrats. Once the coat hanger abortions come back in, a lot of people will start remebering WHY abortion is legal.

If that happens, the Democrats should be smart and propose a privacy amendment. This is the whole issue to begin with. The right to abortion is based on a right of privacy and personal sovereignty. You can loosely base this on the notion of liberty and other principals about your rights not trampling on others.

There is more than one liberal law scholar out there who thinks it's just not there. Now regardless of whether it is, you can win a LOT of elections on the concept of personal sovereignty (responsibility) and privacy. Keep hammering a MEANINGFUL and important notion just like the conservatives role out their BS anti-abortion and anti-flag burning amendments before every election (and subsequently forget about it until the next election cycle).

At the same time, once the abortion objective is reached, the right wing would be de-energized. They will have accomplished there goal and there would be no more reason for anti-abortion rallies.

There are some fundamental questions that this country has to figure out. And liberals have been a bit lazy to take them through the courts instead of making it literal through constitutional amendment. Make abortion illegal, and we will turn every state but Mississippi blue. Actually, what we would do is just shift the Republicans back to the center.

Go ahead Republicans, make my day!!!!

But it would kill a lot of women who would not stop getting abortions, they would just be driven to con artists, etc. to get illegal abortions.

Banning abortion is not the solution to a problem with unwanted pregnancies.

We need to stand up and say that contraception, waiting, anything is better than being in the position of having to make a decision about whether to get an abortion.

The GOP would unfortunately just put more energy into another wedge issue.

But don't worry, the GOP will ride the abortion issue for many more years, it is too valuable to them.

They just don't know it yet.

Sorry, that blindsided me. Fuckin A I like that response LOL

:yourock:

coalition of factions. In recent years they seem to have done a much better job of keeping all the factions under the same tent and happily voting for their tin gods.

Examples of GOP factions:

-Christian fundamentalist voters ("intelligent design" and anti gay marriage type voters)
-People making over 200K (tax issues)

Now I personally know a lot of people in the high income faction. I know some who are in both factions because where I live there is a high prevalence of people of all economic strata being fundie type Christians.

But I know a lot of people who like to vote Republican mainly because they are relatively wealthy and they see the Republicans as the champion of tax policies that favor their bottom line more than the Dems would. Some of these people have liberal social mores, and live decidedly NON Christian, non-fundie type lifestyles (let's just leave it at that for now). These people tend to be comfortable voting for Bush for selfish reasons but many are at least somewhat uneasy with all the promotion of fundamentalist issues, degrading of science education, and denouncing of alternative lifestyles etc. that seems part of the "morals voter" package of the Republican platform. As long as they see the Repubs are unable, or unwilling, to run roughshod over the country to push these agendas into law, they can still remain somewhat comfortable with their vote. However, if suddenly there was a huge national push to legislate, say, "intelligent design" being taught and no evolution mentioned, in all public schools, many of these intelligent, educated, selfish tax bracket voters would either stay home or vote Dem.

A large plurality of Americans favors abortion being kept legal. This means that many people who are fine with the status quo on abortion vote Republican even though the GOP is the "antiabortion" party. No doubt many of these voters are mainly happy to keep voting Repub on whatever their issues, tax policy, foreign policy, as long as they feel the GOP overall is using the fundies for their votes and puts them back in the basement after the elections.

If the "morals"/fundie part of the Repub "big tent" is allowed to completely take over and cause the outlawing of abortion in America, this could cause a major fracture in the GOP voting bloc that could be disastrous. This doesn't mean that all pro choice voters will suddenly vote in a 60 plus percent block against the GOP, but it doesn't take all that many votes to ruin you in national elections when you are only winning by a percent or less, if that.

Get the picture?

The problem isn't so much fundies not turning out for the GOP anymore, the GOP has sold fundie Christians on their "brand" and that isn't likely to change in the next few years. Although it IS possible that they could lose some turnout from the fundies due to losing one of the issues that fires them up and gets them to the polls.

It's losing votes from the other, NON fundie GOP factions getting nervous and scared as they see the fundie beast out of the basement and broken loose from its chains for the first time.

That's all I have to say,...about that.