I share the dismay of social conservatives at our media culture

I was idly spinning the clicker last night for a few minutes. On MTV there were a bunch of people licking each otehr. On VH1 there were a bunch of people letching and making crude jokes. Back to MTV, some guy was watching a writhing stripper at his bachelors party. Then some moron crashing a van....Back to VH1, someone was saying "and there was a lot of sucking and smooching going on"...On to Spike TV, where they were making a lot of crotch jokes and fart jokes...Then to WWF on UPN where one guy was choking anotehr with a chain.

And on and on through a literal HELL of stupidity, crudeness, vulgarity, meanness, macho idiocy, female bimbodom.....

By "coincidence," all of these channels are owned by Viacom. But Viacom is not the worst offender. ALL of the major media have turned into pimps and panderers to the worst in human nature.

Now I'm no prude. I like to see erotic stuff, tell dirty tasteless jokes and all the rest.

But what has happened to the media landscape is beyond the pale. It is as though Clockwork Orange is no longer fiction.

These bastards who run the media are beyoinbd shameless. They are destroying the fabric of society, I really mean that. Watch MTV and it is not simply good-natured adolescent hi-jinks. It is mean, nasty, stupid and vulgar....Even the MTV of four years ago was relatively tame by comparison.

Cable TV has become a Psychotic Wasteland of Dark, Dirty and Dangerous values. It almost made me want to vomit to think that this is what our culture has come to.

More often that not now, I am choosing to just leave the damned thing off when I don't have anything better to do, and to pick up a book or magazine instead.

I also went a stretch in which I gave up TV completely, and loved it, but that was when I was living by myself. I'm married now and my wife does NOT want to give it up, because she loves all the science stuff on Discovery, TLC, Animal Planet, etc. -- which I don't find at all objectionable, either.

But the vast majority of the stuff is trash. Pure, unadulterated trash meant only for the debasement of society. The networks used to at least have some good shows, ones that really probed meaningful issues (like "All in the Family"), but those shows are gone now.

are going in that direction. They are all owned by the same corporate parent, Discovery Networks.

And TLC and Discovery have dumbed down to a revolting extent. It's less and less about learning and more about sensational "reality" programming like "The Science of Cop Car chases" or "An exploration of breasts."

now it is the demolition derby stuff where they wreck things and serial killeritis fare like "The Pherensics Files". Yuck. If I wanted to see that shit I would watch fox. Oh now their latest is people building strange houses. What does any of it have to do with real science?

A lot of the learning has been replaced.

and similar ones. They are so disappointing and bland, when they could be full of interesting content if they wanted to. I listen to them before I go to sleep a lot because I have some problems with my eyes and sometimes my eyes are too tired to read.

Those channels are so full of pseudo-science is another problem - crop circles and ghosts and such. Sometimes I see one and don't realize at first that I saw it before, that's how similar and bland those programs are!

It does make you wonder if the people that make TV shows really are trying to brainwash people and put us all into some kind of coma. I am going to get some audio books instead of watching their "educational" tv.

Personally, I don't find a whole helluva lot worth watching on them anymore. But my wife still likes some of the nature shows -- and every once in a while they still have something on that can catch my attention.

But hey, just about the only program that I feel compelled to watch is NOW with Bill Moyers, so I just choose to not watch stuff that is a waste of time (which most of it is).

that are at least are on par with public television shows like Ken Burns and Secrets of the Dead and so on. I'm not even that picky, either. I admit to liking the Pet Psychic, she seems so nice to those animals! But would be nice to have more choices and better quality.

the night before they shot them with holes like Bonnie and Clyde. Then I found out Murdock bought half their shares and it all made sense. They have also cut down on the Aurthur Kent stuff "Histories Mysteries" which I used to like.

or resources to keep this trash before the public. It's all part of the master plan to degrade society and screw up the minds of our children. The plan calls for attacking from the religious right and funddies who will blame the existence of this trash on "liberals" while all the time the true evil-doers---the ones who own and market the media outlets while remaing above the fray---are laughing all the way to the bank.

Check out the owners, the profiteers, and the ones who can peddle influence to gain monoplies of media outlets. Start with Murdock and follow your nose!

make this a political issue and change this without making folks angry about 1st amendant rights.

IMHO, *something* needs to be done. But, I'm at a loss as to what.

That is the only thing I can think of that doesn't entail censorship. We have to come to a place where it is just not "cool" to like crude and gross entertainment or behavior.

instead of killing each other.

or insulting. problem is that ALL they focus on these days is that kind of behavior.

Too bad in America I have to choose between the two.

I recently bought one for the politics, have I turned it on (I didn't realise politics are only on cable, silly me).

Television today makes people stupid.

The culture is more than TV, though.

If I may put in a word about the lowly romance novel (of which I'm a published author). Although dark things do happen in romance novels, the good people win in the end. Sex is shown in a very positive light along a range from chastity with kissing to out-and-out erotica. (I've published some of that, too.) Romance is woman-positive, love-positive, goodness-positive and uplifting.

And remember that somewhere like 55% of all mass market paperback books sold in this country are romance novels.

There's also Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, and many, many good movies. Even dumb ones can have a positive message (George of the Jungle, for example.)

It spreads from TV outward. It's the same mentality that runs radio. And movies are sinking into that same mire too. As is publishing. At some point, some hotshot is going to decide that romance novels are too tame, and those qualities you mentioned will be epunged.

Like I said. I'm no prude. I actualy think there's a place for stupid crass stuff. But the problem today is that it's ALL becoming stupid and crass, with nothing good -- or even middle-of-the-road -- to replace it.

I too have had it with bad taste, and the dumbing down of America on every level.
And for the most part I think that what passes for entertainment is just a manifestation of the capitalistic values of our society. Hey, if we can produce it cheap and make a profit on it, then why care about quality. Our God is profit. And profit validates our values.
But then something comes along like Joan of Arcadia, that's unexpectedly well done and unexpectedly seductive. And in its own quirky way very challenging of the consumer driven, self-indulgent society in which we live.

Talk about conflicting messages. They are told to abstain and all the horrors of sexual related diseases yet are constantly inundated with sexual inuendo and erotic imaging. I feel for the teen-agers of today not to mention their parents. I agree with your assessment of the Media that we are all presented with. Sex and Violence are the only things that sell. And of course selling is the only important thing in America. Pandoras Box was opened in the sixties and there is no closing it now.

bubblegum... Why? Because it's 'fun' and 'cool' and *insert valley girl voice* "not really having sex anyhow."

My friend his having this issue with her very smart/pretty daughter. Makes me totally ill. But, when I think about the fact that television is considered the 'norm' and MTV videos are such a part of our culture, it's no wonder why.

I will say my friend is very liberal, and never made a big deal out of what's on the tele. She has a very open relationship with her daughter which is wonderful. But, she considers me a prude for feeling the way I do. However, in the end, I doubt my teenager will be giving the neighborhood boys head in 15 years, because my kids gonna be monitored and educated about this drivel.

what bothers me the most is the sadistic/violent content of the shows that I see advertised while watching the news (I don't actually watch the shows). TV land is a very sick place.

there have been some pretty sleazy programs on Fox....Oh, I didn't mean the News network, I meant the broadcast network. Seems like the republicans have no problem with that, though.

disgusting. And, has gone beyond "freedom of expression." Obviously the RW Conservatives "get off" on this kind of stuff or they would have their "bible Billys" all over it calling for censorship. Haven't seen any campaigns or protests about it from those folks.

Put that trash from MTV/VH-1/Spike that somehow passes for "entertainment" along with the new format for studios of CNBC, and the revamp of the format of MSNBC and "Trashtainment" has reached it's zenith. If there's worse to come then I will have to ditch my TVs.

What happened? And, what about our Children? Is this stuff good for male female relations? Is this stuff good for anybody? Doesn't it reduce us all to voyeurs and cynics? Where is the "mystery, the romance, the innocence?"

Why don't we all just "do it in the road....nekkid!"

(sorry, I do sound like a prude) And, that's the problem...if one finds that stuff tasteless depravity, then one is called a prude. An old word not much used anymore. :D

It's not a matter of how sexy something is. It's the relentless drumbeat of today and the lack of respect for humanity. And the complete focus on meanness and stupidiuty and vulgarity.

I probably sound like an old fart too. But I honestly think some kind of line has been crossed that is beyomnd healthy freedom of expression and into social decadence and decay.

to bring us out. I've thought about the very same post for the past week, but decided not too. I really don't like conflict. But our culture is rude. There are just no manners anymore. I don't mean stiff manners, but caring about others comfort.

High art can't function in the USA, only the most lowbrow crap makes it.

All this time I thought I was alone.

I'm no prude, I watch and read erotica, but when I'm watching a great movie and see an ad for "Spring Break Babes Exposed," I have to wonder what we've come to. I mean, Madonna kissed Britney the week before her CHILDREN'S book came out!

they said we'd destroy the country with our sex, drugs and rock and roll. they were right.

i have a theory....

i blame it on the parents unwillingness to grow up. kids need to push the envelope...taste the forbidden fruits.

it's the parents job to make sure the envelope is sealed and the fruit out of reach. parents revolted in that roll. didn't want to be hypocritical and telll their kids no because they had done it all when they were young.

so they decided to play buddy to their kids instead of parent. why not? it's more fun pretnding to be a kid than acting like a grown up.

now, what was once only available at batchlor parties as a special treat is now available 24/7 on the internet.

there are no more special treats....

I'm a Christian socialist, and I have always described myself as liberal in ideology and conservative in sensibility.

This means that like other liberals, I want an end to poverty and the obscene military budget; yet I am uncomfortable (as many social conservatives are, I presume) with the concept of "free love", drug abuse, and the myriad attacks on religion. If this were the 60's and I tried to hang out with the flower children, they would probably have labeled me a "narc" even when I was further to the left than they were. As it is, I have many good discussions with other liberal students at my university, but their partying rubs me the wrong way. To each his own.

THere's a big difference between now and the freewheeling attitudes of the 60's.

The youth culture back then had a lot of ecesses, but there was, at least, an underpinning of larger idealism and morality to it. There was a sense that a better society was possible.

Today's excesses are just a "product" and has an underpinning of dead-end cynicism. Nothing matters, so party hard. And there's mean-spirited aspect to it today.

"Today's excesses are just a "product" and has an underpinning of dead-end cynicism. Nothing matters, so party hard. And there's mean-spirited aspect to it today."

That's EXACTLY what troubles me about it. And frankly, this sentence applies broadly to a great mean excesses in society and culture today.

Armstead nailed it

My kid thinks curse words are "SUGAR!" and "FORK!" That is, until I take him to school, where his fellow elementary school classmates use the real thing.

No respect out there for other's reasonable tastes and sensibilities. It isn't just the media, it's in the schools, in consumer culture. It's why Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh have audiences.

Politically correct is simply being polite.

Having lived in Berkeley and San Francisco in the 60's, I MISS THE 60's! It was exhilarating, outrageous, free, and compared to the degradation of today, almost innocent. It was the Age of Aquarius and "The Greening of America" (a best seller no one here has probably ever read. It was idealistic and hopeful that the world was becoming a better, peaceful place.

perfectly, and probably in reality what most of us see underlying all of this exploitation of the lowest denominator. The absolute cynicism of the depravity or it all. And it is a dead end. There is no way to go back when you've gone that far.

which far exceeds that of the so-called "60s", on liberals or a liberal mindset. As the country veered further to the right, it became ever more decadent. We've had several decades of rightward drift now, and look where we're at. Fox, a decidedly right-wing network, is also notorious for having the most egregiously trashy entertainment programming. Frat boys are the epitome of decadence at today's universities, but they are also largely Republican in their political attitudes. Don't fall into that "conservatives/Republicans are more moral" trap. It's simply not true. In fact, the most moral people I know - I mean moral in their personal lives - are extremely progressive politically. And if you need further evidence, compare Gray Davis, who by all accounts leads an extremely ethical private life, to Ahhnold!

I agree with you. This has nothing to do with liberalism.

It's about the deeper loss of moral values, in the sense of feeling a responsibility to the larger community.

The Corporate Pigs have taken over the media, and will do anything for a buck. If piety and virtue could make them a buck they'd be shoving piety and virtue down our throats instead.

They do that as well.... There are whole networks devoted to such.

I agree with your larger point, it is not liberalism. It is unfettered capitalism.

capitalism's god is money. if the trash on tv wasn't making money it wouldn't be there. if the 'unfettered' capilalism is the problem, what is the solution? government regulation of content? is that what you're calling for? censorship? lynn cheney's way?

This is rooted in a lot of deep stuff. The basic moral philosophy that "The Market is God." The idea that corporations have no responsibility to society otehr than to make a profit. The idea of deregulation that the Public Airwaves (and cable lines) are the property of those who hold licenses....

Money should not be God. Conservatives are hypocrites by claiming that money should drive ebverything, and then decrying the consequences of that.

We need media reform, plus an alternative to the obsession with markets as the only social value.

and Quaker Bill. The corporate class and the corporate ideology has taken over our politics, our culture, our media, even our religions and our schools.

I wouldn't necessarily call it capitalism, although I don't know what word to use instead. The guy who opens a small store in a dilapidated downtown area is a capitalist. The Walmart that builds a behemoth in the sprawling outskirts and puts the first fellow out of business is something else altogether. The guy (or gal) who writes a creative, intelligent television program and gets a studio to produce it is a capitalist. The giant network that cancels the show to put on yet another mindless, tasteless "reality" show is something else altogether.

or Corporate Capitalism.

Definetly it's own form of capitalism. It is capitalism when capitalism has no more restraints, and competation and free enterprise have been eliminated. It's when the big and powerful use their wealth and power to take over the entire society and economy.

given "legal" liberties to run roughshod over the natural rights and pursuits of mortal human beings. Corporatists, not capitalists, worship money as the ONLY supreme power - forget about gods, scriptures, ideals, ethics, morals, or conscience. If a law doesn't exist to support them, they will BUY one...

We no longer have a capitalist democracy, it has morphed into a Corporatist oligarchy. I wonder what it has to take for people to wake up and smell the rotting stench of the MegaCorpses.

"Liberals want freedom without responsiblity."

LOL

No, that would be unfettered capitalism.

Because they know when they've finally gone too far, they'll be able to 'save' us by shoving moral-majority down our throats-- they'll finally have their excuse to join-up social conservatism with big money once again.

That's the word I would use to describe it. I like a lot of shows that would never have been allowed on TV 30 years ago, like Queer Eye of the Straight Guy. But I really do lament some of the excessive decadence as well.

For the vast majority of the world's people, movies, music, and television are the face of America. I think this is far more important in setting attitudes than political differences with any particular administration. The political quarrels only matter to the small percentages of mostly elite populations that follow politics closely. The corrupted mass culture affects everyone.

...this image that is being pushed on, and by, the young of being "INSANE", "CRAZY", "WHACKED", "EXTREME", and all the rest of it. I guess it is supposed to be the antidote to, among other things, the sterile, regimented, corporatized direction that the world is moving in. The irony is, of course, that this whole "insane, crazy, whacked, extreme",etc.image is perpetuated and partially created by that same corporate monster. I alternate between being repulsed and disgusted on the one hand and utterly bored by it all on the other.

>>>I alternate between being repulsed and disgusted on the one hand and utterly bored by it all on the other.<<<

It is among otehr things, extremely boring. That's because it is so vapid and devoid of ideas or true emotion. It's all a pose.

a Frontline documentary:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/cool/

It hit the nail on the head. Unfortunately, we've even gone beyond what they depicted so that documentary almost seems quaint today.

Rather than marketers, I think the Corporate media has hit rock bottom by finding the dumbest, rudest most psychotic nitwits they could find and made them their program directors.

The more you rebel, the more corporate it becomes, then the cycle endlessly repeats itself.

I would stand with them on this one.

Neither am I a prude or shocked easily.

But modern TV (not counting Corporate TV Pravda) is embracing madness.

I agree completely, Armstead. And if there were still actual conservatives left in the Empire, I would stand by their side on this issue, as I did many times before the Attempted Coup of 1998 and the Bloodless Coup of 2000.

They would rather have this then people understanding how the news is controlled and manipulated.

And definitely not reading the internet sites such as DU.

The emphasis on the physical body with the exclusion of feelings and intellect dismays me. I sometimes think I'm in a different universe when I watch TV, noone seems to care about anyone else. It's all about their personal enjoyment.

Trying to raise girls who believe in their self worth and intellect in this environment is a challenge. I've never forbidden a show, but I do come in and make many snide remarks about the images and values portrayed.

I don't know how kids can have any vestige of humane values when they're subject to that crap endlessly.

The Corporate Chieftans who are assaulting our society with this are loathsome.

but you should be teaching them to be media savvy. Snide remarks will only make them want to watch more.

Check out this Frontline documentary called "Merchants of Cool" and see how the media is manipulating your daughters:


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/cool/

mostly, my teens are very discerning and media savvy. I have seen both get up and say they refuse to watch something and I mostly agree with their media choices. I make the snide remarks now, but we spent hours when they were younger trying to discern the media message. We made it a game then. Now, I wouldn't get away with that.

If your girls have actually refused to watch something, then you obviously know what you are doing!

There is nothing about liberalism in this. Liberals have morals and values. In fact it is just those morals and values that are the cause of liberalism.

I have baffled more than my share of right-wing fundies by explaining how the Christian values they say they believe can make you very liberal.

The process is good entertainment.

This is the idea that Lieberman is exploiting when he rants about video games and movies.

is that he wants to censor. He doesn't understand that we can criticize mainstream culture and call its serious decline for what it is without telling people what they can or can't say/write/watch/listen to.

I think some censorship may be in order.

What's acceptable and what isn't? Who do you want making that choice for you?

Holy Joe? Bill Bennett? Brent Bozell? Jerry Foulwell?

I'm without words.

Never.

I think the problem is the are all going after the same moron viewers. This leaves me with nothing to watch.

Lieberman's proposals are not the important issue I was referring to. I thought that would be understood when I portrayed Lieberman's proposals as "exploitation" and his reasons as "rants"

The important point here is that many people who are not conservatives are very concerned about the levels of sex and violence in the media. Furthermore, this high level of sex and violence, particularly the sex part, help foster the perception that the media is liberally biased.

and even less to watch on TV. No wonder the great old shows are so popular.

And everytime I watch the news, I get nostalgic for Uncle Walter and Harry Reasoner, among others. Straightforward and objective. What the hell happened? And when?

There does exist the possibility in this of forming some kind of coalition with these people to combat the corporate sleezes that push this crap all in the interest of marketing their product. It would be good to work with some of these people on this issue. The exposure to liberals who also object to the corporate promotion of violence, trashy, exploitive sex, etc. might let some of them realize that other things they've been afraid of (gays, feminists etc) really aren't that scary.

if they didn't have all this crap shoved in their faces all the time, they might be content to let the rest of us just live our lives and they could go on living theirs.

when it comes to social norms, but quite conservative when it comes to my personal being. I think consenting should be able to sleep with whomever they want, but, personally, I'll stick to one guy. I don't think people (and it used to be women, but I've expanded it to men) should be forced into pre-determined roles.

The problem with what we see on tv is that it's just crap and it's also not about people making choices but just going along with what someone else tells them to do. And it's forcing people into pre-determined roles.

So, in a way, I guess I've come full circle. I'm opposed to social norms, at least those that are portrayed in the media today - and believe people should be able to be who they are, which means be celibate if that's what they want!

I know what you mean, everything doesn't have to be the articificial white icing world of Disney but the sleaziness and cheap portrayals of women are plastered all over cable.

that's the scope of my viewing habits

or good quality game shows. Their favourite right now is Russian Roulette.

they refuse to watch crap even though their mother likes WWWrestling and Jerry Springer.

"Let the market decide," and all that.

Most of their shows are no longer related to science or learning even in the vaguest sense. Why don't they just become fox affiliates?

they put up the quality shows to attract viewers, and then slide back into metiocrity the rest of the year? Lawrence Welk....Someone must've left PBS a fortune in their will to keep that piece of strange theatre running all these years.

The problem is the perception that private companies own the public airwaves and that this gives them the right to do whatever they want on them.

If i go dump a load of shit in the public park, i will be cited by the police, but not so on the public airwaves. Why is this? America has failed to regulate its public spaces that they support a strategic value to the culture.

This logic is what lead to the founding of the BBC and the heavily regulated british airwaves... and should, IMO, lead to the formation of a similar public body that is responsible for all the airwaves and content in america.

This is the new british regulator for all media: http://www.ofcom.gov.uk .. maybe like women's sufferage, britain is just ahead of america... and in that case, it is a good example to reflect on.

working to cut funding for PBS. :shrug:

a post here last night with the header "Cool, you can say "balls" on TV now." To me, the fact that television continues its downward slide is far from "cool." I'm sure there's a generation gap here but I was complaining back in the day when many of my generation were championing the gratuitous use of the F word in print.

Crude language and dirty jokes have their place and survived for millennia by sub rosa person-to-person transmission. Putting them on the air (radio and television) takes away the shock value and most of the fun while exposing kids to things they're too young to deal with and making them think there are no boundaries, that everything that can be thought should be said. Even when the language isn't crude, there's some content that none of us have a real need to know, such as some of the detail that's been widely reported from the preliminary hearing of the case involving rape allegations against Kobe Bryant.

We were better off when there was censorship of movies and television, particularly television since it comes into our homes. They've made sex too familiar and less important, less special. You can say "balls" on TV now but you can't have much meaningful dialogue or content.

I completely agree and think something has to be done. The wolves have been guarding the henhouse for too long. This is what I'm furious about. We're moderates! I don't want sex all over the TV. I've got some socially conservative views. It's that the right wingers are radicals.

I've got a 600 channel universe. 30 or so of those channels carry that sort of nonsense. I don't watch them 'cause there's a coupla hundred channels that carry kewl stuff like science and sociology and history.

and my problem is that those quality channels are turning to shit too. I don't want censorship but I want choice.

I see nothing wrong with the sex, drugs, and violence of today's media culture. It's quite entertaining I think.

I feel we have a serious problem - a potentially disastrous problem - when our mainstream culture is so extremely dumbed down. The average American doesn't know much of anything anymore beyond what's offered in the mindnumbingly idiotic mainstream media.

and it is all sex drugs and violence. why are they migrating this programming to the educational channels now?

Maybe it's because I'm so young, but I honestly don't get the outrage. I think I'm a moderately intelligent person. I like to read and write stories in my spare time. I see through the lies and propaganda on the evening news, and get my news primarily through online and foreign sources. I work hard and try to donate to progressive causes when I can afford it. I go to matinee shows at the Met when I can get a cheap ticket.

Goddess forbid, I also like watching perky blondes fighting vampires, grown men in spandex slamming each other through tables, and robots making fun of bad 1950s science fiction movies. I also love to blow things up, jack cars, shoot aliens, bust out some kung fu, and kill pretty boys with God complexes in a turn-based fashion, on my computer and on my game consoles. I also like to obsessively post about all these topics and many more on various online message boards.

Am I really such a bad person? Has it become a crime to enjoy oneself? Yes, there is a lot of trash in the culture at large (for instance, I would not shed a single tear if any "reality" show except The Amazing Race suddenly got cancelled). There is also treasure to be found, if you want to look for it.

You know, I hate RW talking points, but it's threads like this that make me see where some of the freeper vitriol about "liberal elitism" comes from. There are a lot of blind sheep in this country, no doubt, and I hate a lot of mainstream popular culture, but that doesn't mean that everyone who likes "low class entertainment" is necessarily stupid. It could just be that they have different taste than you do.

I don't mean to offend, I just honestly don't get it.

I didn't mean to sound "holier than thou" in my previous post. (And maybe "old fartdom" is setting in. You never think that will happen to you, but perhaps inevitably it does to us all.)

But two important points. While there has always been plenty of cheap culture around, the bottom has been lowered to a horrible extent. PLUS, there is less of a top, which means there is less to aspire to.

What seems to be happening is that culture is narrowing to the worst.


I can remember a time (not all that long ago) when there was trashy pop culture, but there was also quality pop culture and there was something higher -- call it art, if you want....Now the trashy is taking over everything, including the quality pop culture. It's all being driven down to the bottom, and there is less and less escape from it. Sure there is good stuff out there -- but it is incfresingly rare. It is being drowned out.

If elite means the best, then maybe that isn't so bad to want. In the end, to have a balanced society we need it all. But inctrasingly we are having less and less choice.

the offensive stupidity of American mass culture is certainly not the sole domain of the conservatives. However, this might be one area in which I'm willing to fight through the market. Get people to turn off the idiocy - if we can ever figure out how; it may just be the modern bread & circuses - and it'll go away.

That's way simplistic, I know.

Cable TV has become a Psychotic Wasteland of Dark, Dirty and Dangerous values. It almost made me want to vomit to think that this is what our culture has come to.


My natural inclination is to edit myself when I want to write MTV off as peddling nothing but smut, fluff, and sensationalist info-tainment. I don't want to end up sounding like my father. "You damn kids and your MTV." If those words ever escaped my lips I just might faint. But you echo my sentiments almost to the letter every time my flicker *accidentally* stops at MTV. It's truly gross. :puke:

that I can delete channels from my remote. This way, I don't even have to see the channels that traffic in the crude, the merchandise, or the religious. That doesn't exactly speak to your point. But it tells how far I go to do without them.

But there is a whole lot of good stuff. I don't know what I'd do without Turner Classic Movies, C-Span and HGTV. But we don't have kids, so taking the bitter with the sweet is easier than for parents. My heart goes out to them.

This is the "human values" issue in another form, and that territory does not belong to the conservatives. It belongs to Dems. If everyday people would start to see this fact, we could start to get our culture back on the road to sanity.

Like junk food, junk information is the product of businesses that race to the bottom line. They produce the cheapest possible product, advertise and promote it with lies, fight to keep defects hidden, and buy politicians to keep the skids greased on the whole thing. Question: Which political party does that remind you of most?

What party wants business to be able to do whatever it wants, completely unchecked and unregulated, whether it destroys culture, the environment, Main Street, labor opportunity or even human health and lives?

Geez. It's the Republican party.

And the biggest, most poisonous lie the Republicans and their owner corporations sell is the Republican party itself. That party has become a perfect predator on human values -- a wolf in sheeps clothing that cries wolf.

Dems need to expose the Republicans. It is not moral relativism that is driving this Mack Truck over humanity. It's this amoral, greedhead, irresponsible, virulent, "Bushist-DeLayist" Republicanism.

Back in 1999-2000 I used to love Lonely Planet with Ian, Justine et al going to places like Mongolia and Papua New Guinea. Now most of the shows are about stupid domestic destinations like Las Vegas. Dumbing down America is the order of the day.

Discovery and the ilk.

although to me it's more about encouraging kids to be shallow, materialistic, sexually irresponsible, and stupid than the downfall of society or anything like that. I'm embarrassed by the blatant sexual content of the prime-time sitcoms, but I'm not into censorship as long as the channel changer works. I'm hopelessly addicted to Nip/Tuck and The Shield, so who am I to deny others their guilty pleasures.

I don't worry too much about what my 14-year-old son watches, because I'm usually there to comment on it. I find a lot of teachable moments in the stupidest and most offensive stuff on MTV - Cribs, Punk'd, and Jackass, for example - and elsewhere. TV presents endless opportunities to discuss misogyny, racism, alcohol and drug abuse, exploitation, warmongering ...

:kick:

I look at a magazine rack, or at the checkout stand at the supermarket. Plus, if you add in the "news" channels CNNFOXMSNBC it can all be described with exactly the same words: "mean, nasty, stupid and vulgar... a Psychotic Wasteland."

This is what is so funny about conservative "values". Conservatives put this crap on the TV and then rant and whine about "liberal media" THEY are producing it.

It's all a big game. If conservatives and others don't like the crap on TV, then they need to put pressure on the conservatives who are putting it on TV to stop!

"giving the public what it wants," but I don't recall any grassroots demands for WWF wrestling (the ultimate glorification of the mean and dumb) on three channels.

It's as if there's a conspiracy to teach people to be mean, stupid, crude, and rebellious against the wrong things.

Here's what I mean by being rebellious against the wrong things. Having been in college between 1968 and 1972, I was astonished and disgusted when I first heard the song "You Gotta Fight for Your Right to Party." Not your right to vote, your right to free speech, or your right to a fair trial, but your right to party? That song was no joke to me, because I was teaching at my alma mater and was dismayed at the reports of vandalism, rape, and alcohol poisoning at campus parties. We used to get drunk at parties, too, but I never saw or even heard of students throwing furniture through a closed window, six guys dragging a freshman into a bedroom to "initiate" her, or students being rushed to the hospital with alcohol poisoning, I guess the recent frat rat riots are the natural outcome of twenty years of encouraging obnoxious attitudes. It's as if being an inconsiderate asshole is supposed to make you some kind of admirable free spirit.

Bob Herbert's column in the New York Times today about some of the less responsible hip hop stars was in a similar vein. Of course most teens who listen to hip hop will NOT go out and pimp women or kill the next person who disses them, but someone who comes from an unstable background and has no counterbalancing influences could easily be influenced into thinking that it's cool to be criminal.

Ultimately, I blame the entertainment media executives. They could choose not to sign the mean and stupid performers to their labels, and they could choose to hire better writers for their TV programs and movies. But they don't. Part of it is their own intellectual bankruptcy. It's stupid to make inferior remakes of old movies or old TV shows instead of coming up with something different. Instead they've trained the audience to be stupid and used hype to try to tell them that the garbage they're being fed is actually mom's home cooking.

I saw this when a Japanese-American woman of my acquaintance went around asking for people to go with her to see *Pearl Harbor* on its opening day, because she was afraid of how the audience would react to her. Somebody finally asked her why she was going at all, since the advance reviews were terrible. The question stopped her short. Not see a hyped movie on the opening weekend? The idea had never occurred to her.

I don't know if it's a conspiracy to make people ignorant, or whether the conventional "wisdom" in the entertainment industry is that stupid sells, particularly if the audience has been carefully dumbed down over the years.

These days my viewing is limited to PBS, HBO dramas, BBC America (but just the mysteries, the movies, and The Office, because dumbing down has evidently taken hold in Britain,too, witness back to back episdoes of Changing Rooms), News World International, The International Channel (especially for its Japanese news reports, banal as they are), History Channel International (far superior to its non-digital sibling), CSPAN, and three movie channels that are more likely than average to have high-quality flicks on them: Turner Classic Movies, Sundance, and IFC. I would like Ovation, a fine arts channel, a lot better if it didn't show the same twenty programs over and over--they're great the first time, though.

If I feel like revisiting childhood, I watch old 1950s TV series like 77 Sunset Strip and Maverick on the Moonie Channel (Good Life TV).

But I have found network sitcoms to be so consistently crude and, what's worse, not at all funny, that I don't even bother to watch the new ones. My reaction to the dramas is, "Oh, another crime show? Yawn." (And I'm a huge mystery fan!) I am proud of never having watched Survivor or any other alleged "reality" show, and I watched Who Wants to be a Millionaire only once, when an acquaintance of mine won $250,000.

I fully understand why social conservatives are upset with the mass media, even though I would hate the see the kind of censorship that would disallow a film as delightful as "A Wedding Banquet." The question is not sex or violence: it's mindless, emotionless, mechanical sex and violence.

I don't know what it would be like to have grown up in the environment of the last 20 years with nothing to compare it to.

I know what you mean by that downward slide, from "fighting for your right to party." It's been a steady step-by-step process down a slope.

>>>>>I don't know if it's a conspiracy to make people ignorant, or whether the conventional "wisdom" in the entertainment industry is that stupid sells, particularly if the audience has been carefully dumbed down over the years.<<<

Stupid does sell, but it's not the only thing that sells. And IMO there's a difference between harmless stupid and dangerous and aggressive stupid.

One of my "guilty little pleasures" in the late 80's used to be WWF wrestling. But the difference between then and now is that it used to be harmless cartoonlike fun. Now it's become evil at its core, a celebration of awfulness. And from being a diverting sideline, it's now a central cultural force -- even guys today try and look like WWF wrestlers.

Most of popular culture has followed a similar degenerate path. Including the news media. Much of what we complain about with Fox, CNN, MSNBC et al. is simply that same mindset being applied to news.

It's a whole cultural thing, but the political dimension is the Commercial Mentality becoming out of control. The networks used to give us the Beverly Hillbillies, but they also gave us Edward R. Murrow and Eric Severeid. They had -- and were made to have -- a sense of social responsibility, along with the profit motive. Now they have been given free rein, and no restraints.

whatever sleaze they want. Even the childrens programming (for the under 7 year olds) is lacking in value. Entertaining but with little value or preparation for dealing with their little worlds.

I'm also appalled at the trash that's pushed on us as 'entertainment' (as though watching brutality and gruesome murders could possibly be considered 'entertainment').

It really benefits the corporate sponsors and network owners to keep the public wallowing in ignorance and numb to the real world (note the push for this ridiculous 'reality tv' which really keeps people isolated from 'reality'). This allows the dumbed-down public to maintain a consumer mentality and turn a blind eye to the plundering of our country by corporations and their Republican cronies.

Even the History Channel distorts history and gives us nonstop warmongering, as if to program us into believing that war is a common human condition.

Note to America: pick up a book once in a while and read.

I know.

Which may be why we are fascinated with death. Hence the ultrarealistic bodies on the formulaic crime shows. The other night I saw an ad for "Actual autopsy" Who the fu*k would want to watch something like that? I don't get it.

But yes, I do believe our culture is dying, being choked to death by corporate masters whose only concern is short term profit. Something new is risky so we want something everyone knows and will see and therefor will make more money. When was the last time there was an original movie not something based off a book, TV show, video game or other movie (I will admit some of these are good, like LOTR and Harry Potter). I am also aware there is good stuff out there if you look, but the problem is, most people don't look.

That I think is a major problem. We are abandoning the narrative for "Reality" shit where we can see what "celebrities" are like everyday, or give people a chance even to become celebrites. And the fact you don't have to hire writers or actors is good for the bottom line.

And on and on through a literal HELL of stupidity, crudeness, vulgarity, meanness, macho idiocy, female bimbodom.....

Unfortunately we glorify these things. Look at Bush, he has all these qualities in spades (except maybe the female bimbodom, but look at Jenna)

They put the shit on TV that appeals to the most base desires to get the most viewers, And it isn't just the WWF and MTV, it's affecting other shows as well. Look at Enterprise, the plot may be full of holes, but isn't T'Pol hot? I think back to TNG ten years ago, yeah, they had Troi in the tight uniform, but that did not dominate the show like T'Pol and they focused more on stories. Don't forget Berman gets an 8 digit salary for that crap, while I had to struggle just to publish my first novel.

And people wonder why the Matrix was so popular. I think because many people look around at this world and think "This can't be the real world."

have bombs, dead bodies, destruction everywhere in reality? Does this make them more base more vulgar, less human?

We have all of this because SOMEONE is watching it. When WE take back the power of our lives and STOP CONSUMING these corporate products including TV then it will go away and be replaced with what WE think is valuable.

The argument of being against those providing it and wanting to shut them down or censor them, if someone else says what can and can't or should and shouldn't be shown then isn't it the same thing just in reverse?

Provide other alternatives...FSTV...LINK, etc. No one in their right mind chooses the fake over the real thing when it's shown to them and they've tasted its goodness :D Agreed, it takes some longer than others and some just want garbage...free world...free choice.

BTW, I'm not saying I don't agree with a lot of ideas posted here, but how to fix it, that I don't agree with and I'm almost 50 years of age. Sometimes it's the 'in-your-face' stuff that people actually rebel against. Sometimes it takes saturation of the most horrible stuff to get someone to see the point and move towards a more postive lifestyle.

Each person in this world is responsible for his/her own life and choices...NO ONE ELSE!

Reminds me of an article bemoaning the awarding of a Pulitzer(?) or some such "prestigious" affirmation to Stephen King. The offended luminary's argument displayed the entire vacuum and decadence of culture here in a vastly educated country. He mentions some scions worthy of the conservative classical canon(funerary art) who no one but the elite read and fewer understand and none really like. Heaven forbid a new writer, a controversial writer, or a supremely gifted writer. It is political imprimatur disguised as criticism, added to snobbery, against poplar success, and definitely against "common" genres.

Conservatives are part of the problem, those perpetual guardians at the gate of the new, misinterpreters and dissectors of the old(safely dead). Meanwhile the money making popularizers shrug and laugh all the way to the bank where the true cultural value lies by universal agreement. Where the critical howlers also take their wages.

Result, only a very few and those only after the test of time have the merit the art pundits extol(but rarely allow in their lifetime).

Pretty much as it always has been only on a grander scale of scandal, oppression, and failure than ever. Numerically should we not have ten novelists as good and popular as Dicekns? A couple of Shakespeares? Ten Mozarts? The narrow gate is the same size. The guardians are fatter.

I probably have a pop culture sensibility myself. But the problem is that popular culture has descended into such a cesspool that even mediocre is far above the norm these days.

thier alternatives to what we detest on TV will be the hallelujah crap found on channels 14-21, the right wing moralizing on Pax TV and the hypocritical propaganda found on FOX and MSNBC. To hell with that. Im more troubled about the fact the the history channel, A&E and Discovery have turned in to propaganda outlets. Im more troubled that network "news" is more false than anything you see on MTV. Unfortunately the entertainment industry is giving people what they want. People want to see debauchery, if they didnt, the networks and cable station would show something else.

Social conservatives are part of the problem. They blame liberals for the decadence in the culture while turning a blind eye to thier brothers-in-arms who pump the shit out faster than the public can consume it.

Appealing to the lowest common denominator.

The difference is that the dismay coming from the right is expressed as moralism. The right wants to force culture to address the problem by forcing a consensus around their own moral certitude. They want to impose moral standards from the top down, as long as they can be on top, so to speak.

Dismay on the left, generally, is expressed as a concern for quality and diversity, and we see the problem as rooted big business, a media monopoly, and the strangulation of smaller voices. We want to grow a real culture from the bottom up.

The two are not compatable.

(Forgive me if the point has been made. I browsed the thread, but did not read every post.)

It's one thing to have a crass huckster in the room. If he is one of many people, then he can be as crass as he wants. But when you turn everything over to his control, then we're in big trouble, because the huckster is setting the entire agenda.

I sometimes feel like an outcast as a liberal b/c I feel this way. But, I guess I'm not alone :)

The hardest thing about it is...kids. If you have kids how the heck do you explain this 'crap' to them. That our society is so 'stupid?'

No wonder Americans are 'hated' we look like a collective trof of Springer guests.

OY!

A sense of shared purpose.

I prefer the old American motto "Y Pluribus Unum". We are so divided right now.

And our reptilian minds are being pandered to. Let our Higher Selves emerge and our Commonality guide us.

There is also an appalling lack of creativity in America. Although many women I know do quilting or scrapbooking... many ore have no creative outlet.

It's like we are losing our ability to Create and just sit around absorbing others sensory output... television, video games radio. Rather than making our own waves.

which is not FREE. I don't have cable because 1) it's expensive and 2) I would watch entirely too much television and I don't need to do that.

I don't like much of what is on MTV because it encourages a reckless lifestyle of casual sex and drinking. Watch Real World and the only clips they show are of the people getting drunk and trying to get laid. When they are not doing that they are bating one another and trying to start fights. Are these values we deem important?

If people don't want this tripe and drivel in their houses then why pay for cable or satellite? I have only the local channels and that is enough for me. Yes, I miss not seeing Tech TV everyday but even it's gone downhill in the search for ratings (The Tech of Sex? PLEASE!).

Perhaps I spend too much time online but at least it's a bit more interactive than television. I also have to read to be online.

A&E, PBS, BBC America mostly

I don't go near MTV. It's really creepy what's happening to our society. I worry about how kids of today will turn out.

I haven't had a tv in over a decade and except for sports I don't miss it. It is a vast wasteland that pollutes your thinking and wastes your time. Unplug it and recycle it. You will be happier for it.