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Howard Dean Predicts wins in 06/08 & Lays Out Dems message

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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 09:28 AM
Original message
Howard Dean Predicts wins in 06/08 & Lays Out Dems message
Edited on Wed Nov-30-05 09:34 AM by kpete
Dean predicts wins in 06&08 & lays out Dems message in this article from the The Hill

Dems will win House and Senate in 2006
By Howard Dean

2005 has been a good year for Democrats. The Democratic National Committee (DNC) has trained and hired local organizers on the ground in 49 states. These organizers are critical to our victories in 2006 and beyond.

We've shattered the 2001 post-presidential-year fundraising record, despite not being able to collect soft money. Through our grassroots Democracy Bonds program, we've doubled the number of monthly givers to the DNC.

Our leaders in the House and Senate stuck together on issues such as fiscal responsibility and Social Security, and they continue to pressure the administration for the truth about manipulating prewar intelligence, sending a strong message that Democrats will fight for what is right.

And for the first time in recent memory, the DNC, the Democratic House and Senate leadership and Democratic mayors and governors are sitting at the same table to create policies and strategies for restoring honest government and fiscal responsibility to America.

The early results in California, Virginia and New Jersey are good. Local races in St. Louis, Parkersburg and Minnesota, where we picked up seats that had been Republican for up to 58 years, are even better.

This is a solid beginning, but there is more we must do. Cutting the fundraising advantage the other party enjoys from 3-1 to 2-1 is good but not good enough. Sticking together on the budget and supporting Rep. John Murtha's (D-Pa.) great courage are good starts, but we need to continue to work together on judicial nominations, environmental legislation, trade and jobs to send effectively the message that we are again ready to lead the American people with purpose and in a fundamentally new direction.

In 2006, Democrats will take back the House and the Senate. The Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee and the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee have done an excellent job recruiting strong candidates, and we are already investing in the local infrastructure to ensure they win. But the key to winning is running a national campaign based on our different vision and the themes that Democrats around the country have put forward.

Americans of all political persuasions are tired of and worried about the culture of corruption that Republicans have brought to Washington and to so many statehouses around America. We will offer real ethics reform and election reform so that the Government Accountability Office can report in three years that we can have confidence in our voting machines.

We will offer a program for American jobs that stay in America and for energy independence that will create jobs and wean us off of foreign oil.

The only president to balance a budget in the past 37 years was a Democrat. We will do that again.

We will offer a real tax-reform program that helps the middle class pay for it by eliminating the shocking waste and giveaways the Republican Congress and president have added to the budget and subtracted from revenues in the past five years.

We will join the 36 other countries that manage to include all their citizens in their health-insurance systems while simultaneously balancing their budgets.

We will provide a strong public education system by avoiding bureaucratic federal mandates and taxpayer-funded puff pieces. We will rely on local control while requiring real standards that work nationally.

We will offer Americans real security. We all agree that 2006 must be a transition year in Iraq. While we may have different ideas about tactics and timing, it's clear we must change course. The vision of strategic redeployment set forward by Brian Katulis and former Reagan Defense Department official Lawrence Korb offers a likely roadmap to success that we can coalesce around.

We will offer the American people a government that is honest in preparing for any deployment of American troops and honor their sacrifice when they come home.

Most important, we will talk about Democratic values, which are America's values.

The vast majority of Americans believe it is immoral to lets kids go hungry. We agree. The other party cuts school lunches (they just can't seem to leave that one alone.)

Americans believe it is immoral that not everyone has some kind of health insurance. We agree.

The vast majority of Americans believe that government overreaching into personal and family decisions is wrong. We agree.

Americans believe that it is immoral to leave huge debts to our children and grandchildren. We agree.

Americans believe that using issues to divide us as a country to win elections is bad for America. We will restore America's sense of community.

Together, America can do better


Dean is chairman of the Democratic National Committee.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/11/30/9205/6845
http://thehill.com/thehill/export/TheHill/News/Frontpage/113005/dean.html

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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
1. My Eyes Just Welled-Up Reading that Headline
God, or what ever noble higher power there may be, give us the strength and wisdom to stop the insanity, and return the American Flag back to the People.
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
2. Beautiful!
Thank you Dr. Dean and all Democratic leaders around the nation who have come together to work out a plan to take back our country!

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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
3. Wow- He names voting machines right up there with ethics reform
Good stuff :thumbsup:
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #3
23. Great that he's brought up the fraud, but having to pay a
Edited on Wed Nov-30-05 11:16 AM by KCabotDullesMarxIII
fortune from the public purse, to be able to cast your vote, when the safest and simplest way is with a crayon and a sheet of paper, seems a characteristically, in view of current electoral ethics, outrageous imposition.

Far right Capitalist system you may have right now, but you don't owe anything to the CEOs and directors of voting machine companies, who have already presumed to thrust themselves upon you, unbidden. That kind of gratuitous expenditure is not consistent with small government and government keeping out of your affairs. If they did so to save your money, if there was a significant quid pro quo (there is none, as it happens, of course, except the negative one of fraud), such an arbitrary imposition upon your household budget through your taxes might conceivably merit being viewed a little more kindly. But at the moment it is just one of the examples of the abuse of power mentioned in the article by Patricia Goldsmith entitled "False Frames" on the Home Page.

I also think it would be something of an outrage if neocon enablers such as Liebermann were permitted to share the fruits of Democratic government, when it comes.
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dennisnyc Donating Member (388 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
4. excellent! K & R
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
5. Howard Dean has certainly found his niche in politics. As head of our
party. Too bad he wan't running things in 2000 and 2004.
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Polemonium Donating Member (660 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-01-05 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #5
44. Too bad he is not running the country.
A guy who stands for and articulates the will of the people.
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RufusEarl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
6. Dem's win in 06?
Well of course Howard predicts a win in 06, what do you expect him to say? One can only hope Howard's prediction is correct, but the Dem's need to get a solid message and not think because the Re pub's or in a whole that they can just step in and win elections. I believe the american people our looking for "real" leadership, with a solid message. If and I have my fingers crossed that it happens the Dem's take back the house, that opens up the possibility that we can have honest oversight and hearing about what this admin has been doing for the past five years. I predict with real hearing in the house and senate, about the way this admin has been running this country you my just see indictments. But first we need to get Dem's elected, we have the best chance of this happening in 06, so I agree with Howard but I still plan on working my ass off to make sure it happens.
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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #6
24. Well said
And welcome to DU.

I think Dean is pushing a strong message. Here's hoping it gets out into the world where the CM keep repeating that we have no agenda except attacking Repugs. The last part of his statement is very strong in that regard, imho. I know I'm prepared to counter "the Dems have no message" crap the next time I see it.
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dargondogon Donating Member (78 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-01-05 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
47. Not if we misunderestimate Bush
His poll numbers are rebounding with Congress out of town. If the Dems don't get on TV, he'll keep rising. There's no such thing as a natural political cycle that will sweep Dems back into office. Dems have to get their faces in front of voters every day.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
7. Great positive statement - Double yeah on securing voting machines.
The problem with Terry Mac is that he never believed in machine fraud and didn't make one move to secure the machines for every Dem on the ballots.
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
8. Maybe Matt & Katie will have him on unopposed to discuss it!
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
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nradisic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
9. YES! YES! YES!
Thank you God. Just remember folks....it is going to get worse, much worse, before it gets better. I cannot see how we are going to avoid an economic recession in 2006. It is going to hurt, but in the end it will favor the Democrats. Once we get the Huse and Senate back, we impeach the whole lot of them and start from scratch.

"There will be sunshine after rain..." Mark Knopfler
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FSogol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
10. Kick n/t
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MGKrebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
11.  "on the ground in 49 states"
Who is that lame-ass 50th state? I don't think they have anybody here in Georgia. Is it us?
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #11
20. I think Georgia is covered
I would imagine Alabama or Mississippi. I don't think we have anyone here in Bama...but I could be wrong.
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OnionPatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #11
37. That was my first thought
Who's that 50th state? All I can think is Utah? They have the highest Bush approval rating last I saw. Maybe they truly are hopeless? :shrug:
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #11
38. How about Alaska
It's expensive to run a grassroots campaign there and Alaska is pretty solidly red.
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Hardknock Donating Member (38 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-01-05 04:43 AM
Response to Reply #38
42. It is Alaska (my home state)
Edited on Thu Dec-01-05 04:44 AM by Hardknock
No one cases becasue, one it's too red to make a difference with grassroots campaigning becasue it's too expensive, and two, it's only three electoral votes.
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Donovan61 Donating Member (59 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
12. Way to go, Gov. Dean
I think our campaign slogan for '06 should be "Had enough? Vote Democrat."

Even some Republicans in my red state are beginning to see the light.
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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #12
25. I like that
Had enough? Vote Democratic.

Welcome to DU
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WannaJumpMyScooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
13. Yep, that is great stuff. Now if we could just get all of our
Reps and Sens to think before they open their big dumb yaps... Clinton, Schumer, Biden, Holy Joe... we may have a chance.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
14. Wonderful! Dean is doing such an amazing job!
:toast:
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
15. Howard Dean will be appearing tonight on Jay Leno's show!
TiVo alert!
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
16. Great piece! Where did it come from? n/t
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
17. Together, America Can Do Better
I love that. I hope we adopt that as our mantra for 2006--as a counterpoint to "Git More Troops Kilt In Eye-rack! YEEEE-HAAAWWWWW!!!"
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
18. Excellent statement! n/t
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SupplyConcerns Donating Member (305 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
19. We're not going to win w/voting fraud around
Are you listening, Dean? People have always stolen elections when it was so damn easy to do so. We need to end the paperless balloting, etc. Even if the will of the voters is in our column, that doesn't mean the "votes" are.
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. Did you miss this part of the article?
"Americans of all political persuasions are tired of and worried about the culture of corruption that Republicans have brought to Washington and to so many statehouses around America. We will offer real ethics reform and election reform so that the Government Accountability Office can report in three years that we can have confidence in our voting machines."
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disndat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-01-05 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #19
46. No voting reform, no Dems win
If it weren't for voting fraud, the Democrats probably would have won in '00 and '04. Nothing that Dean could do to win '06 and '08 is more essential than to do something about voting fraud. Not just e-voting machines, but paper ballots can be thrown out or destroyed, as was discovered in Florida, '04, if Bev Harris of "blackboxvoting.org" can be believed. We have to have an ironclad way to verify that every vote counts. It is amazing and gratifying that Dr. Dean is planning to make this issue his highest priority.
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baal Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
21. I am at the end of my tolerance of these animals
who call themselves red-staters. If the real America does not retake power in this next election, I for one am ready to begin next revolution. These disgusting right wingers and republicans need not just to be defeated, they need to be exterminated like the vermin that they are. They have destroyed our once-great, progressive nation and turned us into a x-tian IRAN. These people disgust me and I can no longer remain silent. These hate monger, homophobic, racist theocrats must be stopped.
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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #21
26. Welcome to DU
:hi:
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. I'm with you, baal, but we mustn't forget that some of the guilt falls on
our Democratic leadership, as enablers of the Bush junta. For instance, the Democrats in Congress who violated their oath of office by giving away their war powers to George Bush, and the Dem leaders who were utterly SILENT about rightwing Bushite corporations gaining control of the tabulation of our votes with 'TRADE SECRET,' PROPRIETARY programming code, and virtually no audit/recount provisions.

These are grave wrongs, and they cannot be erased by the Democrats merely regaining a majority in Congress, or gaining the White House--if those things are even possible, giving our compromised and fraudulent election SYSTEM. One-party rule is not good for anyone! Having only one choice for a party that is not a fascist junta is not good enough.

Will they ever say that the Iraq war resolution was unconstitutional? Will they forgo preemptive war powers? Will they not institute a military Draft and move into Iran or Syria on some 'Gulf of Tonkin'-type pretext (as a Dem president and a Dem Congress did on Vietnam)? Will they totally reject torture?

And even if they were to restore constitutional government, and genuinely aim at peace and justice, will their policies stick--when our system is wide open to another fascist junta--due to gargantuan military budgets (such a temptation to fascists) and manipulable vote tabulation?

I am encouraged by this statement of Dean's:

"We will offer...election reform so that the Government Accountability Office can report in three years that we can have confidence in our voting machines."

But..."offer"? That's a rather iffy word. Not demand? They are going to "offer" the American people an election system that is NOT controlled by rightwing Bushite corporations and their secret formulae?

I'm more than a little concerned that the most fundamental basis of our democracy--our right to vote--is going to fall between the cracks, like it did before--or that the VERY SAME corrupt Democrats (in Congress, and at the state/local level) who have colluded on the $4 billion HAVA boondoggle will be right there again, making sure that PRIVATE CORPORATIONS have custody of vote tabulation and that it is NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE for citizens to change that, or even to audit/recount the machines' so-called "results."

And even worse can happen--even with Dems in charge. Imagine this: national mandated electronic voting, with a federal electronic voter database, sold as a way to make everything uniform, efficient and on the up and up--but in reality making the whole thing even more hackable, even more insecure, and even more monolithic, so that, when the next Republican administration turns into a fascist coup, there will be no way to dislodge them. No state will be able to go back to paper ballots, hand counted at the precinct level. Voters will be unable to challenge being purged from the rolls. Local-state government (closer to the people) will have no say.

After what happened in Congress with HAVA--and the Dems silence about the election SYSTEM, and about its 2002 and 2004 "results"--we cannot take for granted that the Dems will restore or protect our right to vote. And its presence on this list as a lesser priority--and as a "offering" not a "demand" (or not a certainty)--is troublesome.

Still, its presence on this list is PROGRESS! The Democratic grass roots has not let this matter die. We have fought and fought and fought for a spotlight on our NON-TRANSPARENT, SECRET election system. And there it is, at least LISTED as a Dem priority.

I will be more encouraged if Dean has arranged for INDEPENDENT EXIT POLLS (--unlike those DOCTORED exit polls we got from the corporate news monopolies on election night, 2004), or "parallel elections," or some other independent verification tools.

If not, then WE must do it. If the Dems don't care if our votes are twiddled, reversed, 'disappeared,' and stolen, then WE THE PEOPLE must care, and arrange for our own verifications.

But, truly, I don't ever again what to see OTHER PARTIES--the Greens, the Libertarians--and unpaid grass roots volunteers have to bear the burden of monitoring and challenging elections that Republicans are stealing from Democrats!

-------------------

For a project for statistical monitoring and challenges in '06 and '08, see:
http://www.UScountvotes.org

For an easy to read pamphlet on the perils of electronic voting ("Myth Breakers"), see:
http://www.votersunite.org

For the GAO report on the extreme insecurity of our election system (and the evidence on 2004), see:
Access to pdf: http://www.gao.gov/docsearch/abstract.php?rptno=GAO-05-956
Text only: http://www.gao.gov/htext/d05956.html

For independent analysis of the 2004 exit polls, see:
http://www.TruthIsAll.net

--------------------

"Throw Diebold and ES&S election theft machines into 'Boston Harbor' NOW!" --Samuel Adams



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knight_of_the_star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-01-05 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #28
45. Keep in mind the tone of the message

But..."offer"? That's a rather iffy word. Not demand? They are going to "offer" the American people an election system that is NOT controlled by rightwing Bushite corporations and their secret formulae?

When he says offer I think what he means is that he's not saying we're going to demand it of the GOP because he's aiming for control of congress so we won't NEED to demand anything of them when we have Congress.
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darkmaestro019 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-01-05 04:26 AM
Response to Reply #21
41. Welcome : )
Love the screen-name and the sentiment. Glad to have you here.
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
27. Anyone for a 2/3 majority of Dems?
I'd sure like it to be close.

With a Dem president, it would be overkill.

Pointing to CON voting records, it would not be impossible.
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Fiendish Thingy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
29. This is a great first step in the right direction;
The first clear, comprehensive articulation of what Dems stand *for* rather than against. If other Dems echo these points, we just might be on to something...
I do worry that, despite Dean's leadership, and the courage of Murtha, Conyers, Boxer, and others, there are still many Dems who lack the courage/spine to take even the lukewarmest (is that a word?) of stands, as outlined above. I'm hoping that Kerry, Edwards, Biden, Clinton and the rest of the DLC'ers will get behind this in a big way, and if not, that Dean and the rest will forge ahead anyway, and ignore/exclude them if need be...while the Republicans become more divided due to scandals, the Dems have to avoid division by dilution of their message, as mild as it is...
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padia Donating Member (355 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
30. This is what I have been waiting for
a succinct and concerted voice that we can all start using to say this what Dems stand for. I have been able to tear down repug arguments I can make them scratch their heads but it all came down to anti repuke or some esoterically debated philosophy. And I found it some what frustrating.
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dwp6577 Donating Member (87 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
31. I "was" a bit concerned
when Dean got on tv a few Sundays ago stating the Dems have a plan and will outline it "soon". I'm thinking Oh Shit, here we go again. This layout of the Dems message is BEAUTIFUL, and seems to sum it all up. I'm hopeful that this message gets out to the people, although I'm sure turdballs like O'lielly, rush drugbaugh, savbitch, etc... will spin it into the dirt.

Dems...have this layout printed off and in your pockets ready for rebuttle to the brainwashed mass of idiots.
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oc2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
32. awsome..I just hope there is a country left by then.
nt.
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edbermac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
33. We'd better win Howie, or it's gonna be YOUR ass!
You guys better be out for blood next year...
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
34. Unity Among Democrats! One Message, One Party. nt
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DUBYASCREWEDUS Donating Member (195 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
35. I Hope
Edited on Wed Nov-30-05 03:44 PM by DUBYASCREWEDUS
this includes demanding paper trails on the Diebold voting machines in Ohio. If not then we have no chance of ridding our state of a Republican Governor and a Republican Senator. Early polls show either Hackett or Sherrod Brown beating DeWine, but you can just bet that unless we have a paper trail on those machines DeWine will make that miraculous finish line finish like President Dumbo did last year and snatch victory from defeat. I think voting machine reform is the most important thing that must happen before next November.
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RAYMAN Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
36. It's official: Diebold election bugware can't be trusted
"A considerably more plausible explanation is that
Diebold is using this non-problem as an excuse to keep its
bugware from the prying eyes of government regulators. And the
most likely reason for that is that they've got a lot of
blunders to hide."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/11/30/diebold_hides_source/

We have to get rid of these machines!!!!!!!!!!
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sweetm2475 Donating Member (523 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-05 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
39. Howard Dean, You Give Me Hope.......
That once again I can be proud of my Democratic Party. Just one thing, though....What about ousting the DLC???? THEY are the cancer that could ruin everyone's great intentions. They must be removed along with the Bush, republican, neocon, facist, american taliban junta. They are no better.
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Polemonium Donating Member (660 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-01-05 04:24 AM
Response to Original message
40. Once again Dean builds on our common goals
and shows the things we can come together to work for. Dean has consistently been unusually skilled at being our representative.

I think his platforms work so well because he trusts people. I've learned alot from him.
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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-01-05 05:19 AM
Response to Original message
43. Sure hope he's right
He is one of the only dems. that I feel confident it.
Give em hell Howard!
Let's end the culture of corruption!
:yourock:
:dem:
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