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It's "hammer a freeper" time! Some help, please...

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driver8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 11:16 PM
Original message
It's "hammer a freeper" time! Some help, please...
We are having a "discussion" about the cause of the war on my navy veterans board. There are three or four "liberals" and the rest of the guys are freepers. Here is the post that I want to hammer:


(The poster is replying to the comment below)

GEORGE BUSH and friends stood to profit, BIGTIME.
---------

For Crissakes, I am profitting from the war. I own defense stocks. Does this make me wrong?

You can NEVER justify any statement that Bush entered the war in Iraq for the sole purpose of profit for himself or anyone else.

------------

What do you think?
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shockingelk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
1. how about
Are you grateful your defense stocks have been doing well?
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Peggy Day Donating Member (859 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
2. It should be illegal to profit off of war. period.
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jbnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
3. But would he send people to die
to increase his profit?

That's what would make him wrong.
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FloridaPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
4. Bush 1 was an employee and investor of the Carlyle Group until
right before the 2004 elections. The bin Ladin family were also investors until 9-11. They supposidly asked to leave. The Carlyle Group is a private corporation, so there is no way to get a hold of the names of the stock holders. But Bush Sr was making a ton a money and when he dies, it will go to his sons, probably.

Cheney still owns a ton of Halliburton stock. Receives $1 million a year as retirement or late compensation - not sure which one is the truth. You can bet a lot of defense contractors give generously to the repub party.
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
28. It was his severance bonus
Cheney chose to receive it in five annual installments to minimize his tax bill.
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ingac70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
5. "Does this make me wrong?"
If blood money doesn't gnaw at his conscience it makes him souless.

"You can NEVER justify any statement that Bush entered the war in Iraq for the sole purpose of profit for himself or anyone else."



Why can't you?? Because he said so?? They are raping this country financially for all its worth, and then some , even the most rapid repubs I know are starting to realize this.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
6. His defense stock might have gone up, but
no doubt, it's a drop in the bucket compared to this:

Chief executives at U.S. defense contractors have seen a 200-percent pay raise since the Sep. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, widening the chasm between compensation in the corner office and wages on the factory floor, a new report said Tuesday.

Average CEO pay--$11.8 million in salary, stock options, bonuses, and incentives--rose last year to 431 times what the average worker earned, $27,460, according to the report from the Washington, D.C.-based Institute for Policy Studies and Boston-based United for a Fair Economy. In 2003, CEOs had made 301 times their average employees' pay.

The ratio had peaked at 525-to-1 in 2001.

''If the minimum wage had risen as fast as CEO pay since 1990, the lowest paid workers in the U.S. would be earning $23.03 an hour today, not $5.15 an hour,'' the research and advocacy groups said.

The report charged that individual CEOs have profited from the Iraq War, with huge average raises at the biggest defense contractors. To arrive at this conclusion, it looked at 34 of the top 100 defense contractors of 2004. While most firms in the larger group were privately held, the 34 included in the report were publicly traded, meaning that their financial results were easier to research.


http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0831-02.htm

War Millionaires: Defense Contractor CEO Pay Up 200 Percent Since 9/11
by Willliam Baue

The ratio between CEO and worker pay across the market climbs to 431 : 1, up from 301 : 1 last year, according to a new CEO pay study from United for a Fair Economy and the Institute for Policy Studies.

SocialFunds.com -- "I don't want to see a single war millionaire created in the United States as a result of this world disaster." So said President Franklin Delano Roosevelt about World War II, and President Harry Truman first made a name for himself as a Senator by crusading against war profiteering. The same cannot be said about the current wartime situation, as war profiteering seems to be the trend of the day according to the twelfth annual CEO compensation survey conducted by United for a Fair Economy (UFE) and the Institute for Policy Studies (IPS).

The report, which surveys 367 leading US corporations, focuses particularly on 34 of the top 100 defense contractors in 2004 with 10 percent or more of their revenues from defense contracts. It finds "a trend towards individual war profiteering by CEOs," with CEO pay at these companies rising 200 percent from 2001 to 2004.

"As the death toll mounts among Americans and Iraqis, it seems particularly unjust to see executives profiting personally from the horrors of war," states the report, written by UFE's Scott Klinger and Liz Stanton and IPS's Sarah Anderson and John Cavanagh.

http://www.socialfunds.com/news/article.cgi/article1794.html



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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Warmonger CEOs
How can they sleep at night?

Thanks for some excellent information, Emit. Much obliged.
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
7. Ask him how he likes the blood on his hands.
Does he try to wash it off, or does he display it proudly to show people what a savvy investor he is?

Redstone
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
8. Tell Him Whatever Money He Made From The Stocks Is Lost From Higher Gas
Prices.
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Der Blaue Engel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
10. Perhaps it has escaped Mr. Freeptard
that unlike himself, Bush actually STARTED a war for his own profit. If he (the freeper) had purchased the stocks and then went out and declared war, now that'd be different, wouldn't it? That'd be sick and wrong, wouldn't it? Mr. Freeptard would be a criminal.

Checkmate.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
11. How many soldiers lives depend on the stock this freeper owns?
BIG difference. dubya's profiteering cost over 2100 of our military's lives. Hammer this koolaid drinker with THAT.

I shut a war monger up last week when I posted pictures of dead Iraqi kids. It was extreme, but it worked. You might try that.
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
12. There's a difference in making a profit and profiteering
IMO
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. I wouldn't let the Freeper off that easy.
When you buy stocks, you're giving money to a company with hopes of profiting off of their success. When their profits are guaranteed by the government, and that's as out in the open as it is, then investors are a party to war profiteering as well.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
13. You can always find other reasons. Bush found plenty.
unfortunately, he was looking for those reasons up his butthole.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
14. a new to me favorite site...
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BillZBubb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-05 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
15. Notice how he spun the issue?
Bush and his friends did stand to profit. Cheney especially. That is undeniable. And having that motive may have been a factor. It certainly didn't act as a deterent.

Of course you can never "justify that they went to war for the sole purpose of profit". Nice spin there adding "sole purpose". There were a lot of reasons, but isn't the profit motive always a big motivator according to Republican "philosophy?"
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PatrioticLeftie Donating Member (909 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 12:38 AM
Response to Original message
17. Ask him what his SPD is
Soldiers-per-dollar
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johnnydrama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. ask him
How many people would it be ok to kill if he could triple his profits?
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LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 02:01 AM
Response to Original message
19. I guess he would defend Prescott Bush getting rich off Hitler
So I guess as long as you are making money, war is ok??? There are a brazilian stocks out there, you dont need to support the military industrial complex. But if you are a cold hearted murderer who only cares about getting rich, then I guess there is no help for these people.
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Make7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 04:28 AM
Response to Original message
20. Ask him if he owns any stocks in the oil sector. ( n/t )
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unhappycamper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 07:11 AM
Response to Original message
21. Smedley D. Butler addressed the issue very well in 1935
http://upload.wikimedia.org.nyud.net:8090/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/54/SmedleyButler.jpeg/180px-SmedleyButler.jpeg

WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives.

A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small "inside" group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes.

In the World War a mere handful garnered the profits of the conflict. At least 21,000 new millionaires and billionaires were made in the United States during the World War. That many admitted their huge blood gains in their income tax returns. How many other war millionaires falsified their tax returns no one knows.

How many of these war millionaires shouldered a rifle? How many of them dug a trench? How many of them knew what it meant to go hungry in a rat-infested dug-out? How many of them spent sleepless, frightened nights, ducking shells and shrapnel and machine gun bullets? How many of them parried a bayonet thrust of an enemy? How many of them were wounded or killed in battle?

http://lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm
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MiniMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 07:17 AM
Response to Original message
22. Ask him if he thinks it is OK that soldiers are dying for his profit. nt
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 07:26 AM
Response to Original message
23. I'm a Navy veteran, you got a link to this web site?
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driver8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. It's just a small group for ex-nucs. Most of the guys served on the
USS Enterprise. It's a Yahoo group called "Critical Thinking".
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 07:27 AM
Response to Original message
24. There's nothing you can say to this guy
He believes that war profiteering is ok. Plain and simple. So nothing you could say will make him think it is wrong.
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chalky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
26. Until that clown can give his daughter a $10,000,000 party
Edited on Sat Dec-03-05 12:58 PM by chalky
he doesn't KNOW profit.

Until his pay has gone from $525,000 yearly to $70 million, HE DOESN'T KNOW PROFIT.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5493362

Until THIS DICKHEAD has profited from the war as much as Cheney has:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=cheneys+stock&btnG=Google+Search

he's just a dime-store sucker who's licking crumbs off the floor.

Until he can carry away his unreported "profits" of unmarked bills in a duffle bag...
http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/37/12066
HE DOESN'T KNOW PROFIT.
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-05 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
27. I think * didn't go to war for profit...
Cheney and Rummy certainly did. Cheney's Halliburton stock options yet to be exercised from his tenure as CEO have risen 3000% since 2001.

* didn't give a shit and handed the keys to the kingdom over to Dick and Don.

-Hoot
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