Anyone else here think that mankind is a mistake?

Just watching a guy on Sucker Carlson who thinks we (homo stupidens) out to opt out of the bio-diversity chain.

Is it true that:

We are a blight on mother earth. We over reproduce and harm everything else on the planet. So how about a breather for a few generations? let the planet heal. If we are meant to be we will re-emerge!

Kurt Vonnegut thinks we are a parasite on the planet and the earth is rejecting us with disease, famine, and natural disaters. We are not wanted.

We are a total screw up, IMHO, we have this amazing ability and intellect, and then what the hell do we do with it? bio warfare, mass exitinction, nukes, repukes, neocons, famine, deforestation, alienation. (going for some small measure of rhyme here).

So what does anyone else think our time is up and maybe we should just step down gracefully and let the grizzly bears roam and the eagle soar in clean skies again?

OK, seriously here is the web site:

http://www.vhemt.org/
The Voluntary Human Extinction Movement

>Q: What is the Voluntary Human Extinction Movement?

VHEMT (pronounced vehement) is a movement not an organization. It's a movement advanced by people who care about life on planet Earth. We're not just a bunch of misanthropes and anti-social, Malthusian misfits, taking morbid delight whenever disaster strikes humans. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Voluntary human extinction is the humanitarian alternative to human disasters.

We don't carry on about how the human race has shown itself to be a greedy, amoral parasite on the once-healthy face of this planet. That type of negativity offers no solution to the inexorable horrors which human activity is causing.

Rather, The Movement presents an encouraging alternative to the callous exploitation and wholesale destruction of the Earth's ecology.

As VHEMT Volunteers know, the hopeful alternative to the extinction of millions of species of plants and animals is the voluntary extinction of one species: Homo sapiens... us.

Each time another one of us decides to not add another one of us to the burgeoning billions already squatting on this ravaged planet, another ray of hope shines through the gloom.

When every human chooses to stop breeding, Earth's biosphere will be allowed to return to its former glory, and all remaining creatures will be free to live, die, evolve (if they believe in evolution), and will perhaps pass away, as so many of Mother Nature's "experiments" have done throughout the eons. Good health will be restored to the Earth's ecology... to the "life form" known by many as Gaia.<

are a sexually transmitted disease. yeah, I'm a little cranky tonight.

Trichomonas, the true story, 450 million years later, now evolved into bankers, politicians, and CEO's.

My kingdom for the life of an amoeba, small and not too complex!

are the best argument agains intelligent design.

it surprising how amazingly complex creatures that evolved from simple cell organisms can be so completely fucked up, base, and cruel. Sometimes it seems we would have been better off swimming in the primordial soup.

I believe God has a boss who is a sadist

On the other hand, Eugen Ionesco did say someting along the lines of "I consider existence to be an extreme misfortune." He may have been hung over at the time.

But if you believe this way, there is something you can do for the good of the planet. I don't personally advise suicide, however.

We use the earth as we need and leave the area destroyed when we are finished.

And for every person that accepts this nilihism, there will be many more who will keep on having kids. To reproduce is a major biological urge, strengthened by all of evolution. Every one of us is the product of uncounted billions of organisms that managed to reproduced before they died.

Your piece of posturing is doomed from the start.

AGENT SMITH: I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species. I've realized that you are not actually mammals.

AGENT SMITH: Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment. But you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area.

AGENT SMITH: There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus.

AGENT SMITH: Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You are a plague. And we are... the cure.

he said "language is a virus."

You should check him -- the source material so to speak.

Also it is not really true that every other mammal instinctively develops a natural equilibrium.
Deer can overpopulate for example.

I think we, among our other faults, have a prediliction for guilt trips.

As has been said, the Earth will abide. Not all - or large numbers - of us may necessary stay aboard for the ride.

not random.

We cause the mess we make and then we do it again.

I guess an asteroid could wipe out everything but microbes, but then, that would be a fresh start, and then in my world, 500 million years from now, large tabby cats would rule the world and dogs would teach philosophy. OK..it IS friday night...LOL...:evilgrin:

especially in the aggregate is both deterministic and self-controlled and based upon rational processes.

While that may be an admirable ideal, I have doubts that it reflects reality both biologically and historically and see no reason to expect it will be the basis of the future, especially for a species under stresses - of various kinds.

that we have been totally controlled by our biological urges, we are basically a talking limbic system.

If I take on the POV of this group, as a devils advocate, I would have to say that this is an exhortation for us to reach the better angels of our nature and admit that for the good of the other 9 million 999 thousand species our planned exit, stage right..or it it left??:dilemma: was the result of our best and last (maybe only) effort to be rational.

destructive of our one and only home- planet earth?

Humans' big problem (and sometimes it seems the environmental movement's brain cramp) is our sense of time. Should our species last 1 million years, it would still be just a tick of earth's clock even if we restricted it only to that period when life existed.

Even if we managed to kill off every living creature larger than a bacterium, once we were gone the earth would re-speciate(sp?) in a billion years or so. Massive extinctions are a well documented part of earth's history. At one point, it seems, life evolved only to nearly kill itself off (through climate change!) leaving only cyanobacteria. Compared to a massive comet strike, anything we humans can do to screw things up is small potatoes.

Actually, here is where I start to wonder about the motivations of most 'environmentalist' especially global warming-mongers. What's the fuss? So we throw the earth into a warming cycle that radically alters the climate or even causes a counter-cyclical ice age. So what? The underlying assumption is that for some reason (which I don't understand) we are supposed to be trying to maintain the system as it is.

If you were some kind of creationist you might think it was because GOD made it so. But why do the greens care? To preserve biodiversity? Do we have a particular stake in this set of organisms? Frankly, I think the fauna of the Cretaceous period were way cooler. I wonder what might emerge if we opened up a few ecological niches? S.J. Gould's notion of punctuated equilibrium in evolution suggests that massive climate change could be a precursor to a whole new fauna! Bet it tastes like chicken....

One question is whether we have the ethical right to make the decisions that have consequences on such a massive scale for the planet and other species that inhabit the place.

I suppose there's the might-makes-right aspect that relates to our intellectual superiority and adaptability, but I'm not so sure about Machiavellian Evolutionary Theory myself.

And the Jurassic fauna were way cooler ... what could you be thinking ?

Either that or many years ago he/she had a bad drinking problem.

Was an asshole of biblical proportions.

ass holes of biblical proportion. LOL.

We are the "neocons" of nature, for us, the end justifies the means.

It's always me, me, me...mankind this and mankind that...such hubris.:evilgrin:

An asshole I do not rape or traumatize kids for fun.
I can't do that kind of shit it is AGAINST my true self.
I didn't make this reality like this.I never chose this. I am a prisoner here in a body that is dying bit by bit.

This reality is sick.And the reason I know this is true is because part of it(the evil essence) treats me as if my mere existence causes it pain(evil) and gives it a life(as in an evil parasite).

I do not blame myself for being kidnapped by the cosmic fuck up fake reality emanating from an evil ,blind jealous god.

You can blame yourself all you want..I will not do that and lie to myself like that.. I never made the living beings here have to kill the other living beings to survive here.(evolution and prey /predator etc.)This material and sick form of reality and it's systems and"archons" rulers/dominator's/will die eventually because it is on a cosmic level unsustainable(entropy)

the only stage of evolution that decided to stop playing by the rules. Recall that until the agricultural revolution, homo sapien sapiens were peaceful hunter gatherers. Once we started tilling the ground, we were able to provide more food, thus our population grew. It hasn't stopped yet, and all we do is continue to over-consume.

For more on this, I highly recommend Daniel Quinn's book "Ishmael" http://www.ishmael.org

"The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight"

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1400051576/qid=1133587022/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/104-5792740-7358366?n=507846&s=books&v=glance


Both books have 5 star reviews on Amazon.

it hopefully is a brighter alternative then folding up our genes and comming to a stop.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1400051576/qid=1133587022/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/103-0482642-6635069?n=507846&s=books&v=glance

The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight: Revised and Updated : The Fate of the World and What We Can Do Before It's Too Late

Book Description
While everything appears to be collapsing around us -- ecodamage, genetic engineering, virulent diseases, the end of cheap oil, water shortages, global famine, wars -- we can still do something about it and create a world that will work for us and for our children’s children. The inspiration for Leonardo DiCaprio’s web movie Global Warning, The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight details what is happening to our planet, the reasons for our culture’s blind behavior, and how we can fix the problem. Thom Hartmann’s comprehensive book, originally published in 1998, has become one of the fundamental handbooks of the environmental activist movement. Now, with fresh, updated material and a focus on political activism and its effect on corporate behavior, The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight helps us understand--and heal--our relationship to the world, to each other, and to our natural resources.

But even for an old cynic like me, I love Thom! Recently I recommended him to my boosh lovin' mother & she actually listened to him on some local show (Denver) & told me she really liked him. GASP!!! OMG!! Could we finally have a common demonimator (Thom) to discuss? That would be such a blessing!

I checked out 'Last Hours' from my local library, and after reading it from cover to cover, ordered a copy for myself. BlueDawg12, you will come to love this book & if you investigate Thom's other books, you will love them too.

"We the People: A Call to Take back America"

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1882109384/qid=1133588314/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/104-5792740-7358366?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

A great book for the entire family, & yes, children, included.

=====

"Unequal Protection: The Rise of Corporate Dominance and the Theft of Human Rights"

The DU Book Club disucssion of the this book:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=209&topic_id=1823


Thom is one of our best progressive voices!!

of ideas is refreshing as heck, and there is just so much to learn about and others who guide us to knowledge are a treasure.

I hope that Thom and others remain optimistic- the world needs them.

It feels, in social terms, like the dark ages.

Wonder how history will view this era?

:yourock:

Edit: I visited your DU Book Club disucssion thread. :)

If we don't chose to do it as a planned obsolence plan for our esteemed species, then, we seem to be doing it anyway, but with out a plan. :popcorn:

>VHEMT is naturally in opposition to involuntary extinction of any species, as well as any efforts encouraging human extermination. There are presently concerted efforts supporting both of these horrors. For example:

Production and use of weapons.
Toxin production, such as petrochemical and nuclear.
Exploitation of natural and human resources.
Promotion of reproductive fascism.
And so on.
The above could be called the Terrorist Human Extermination Movement (THEM), but that's labeling and encourages a "Them or Us" attitude.

VHEMT is opposed to what these people are doing, but it's doubtful any would bother to return the favor. Really, there isn't much point in opposing a voluntary movement which harms none and benefits all.<

Evil(including evil humans) emerged from a Celestial Error and created a Counterfeit Creation - the one we are in - in which beings have been trapped by counterfeit beings created by the Evil Mind or a sick thoughtform or false god who thinks it is the one and only god.

There is a War of Essences, to be resolved on this reality on which the majority of consciousnesses, including those in human bodies, are evil or sickened by evil.

The beings NOT of the evil or sociopathic reality who are still viable are to be evacuated,fixed or relocated in a more harmonious dimension suited to the kind of being they are by thier true nature.

Those of evil,or the parasitic reality and those beings who's nature is of the sociopathic reality will no longer viable,they will be transmuted or destroyed in a final Corrective process.
I observe when I look at the situation we are in,hoew it really is,and therefore I concluded..there are

Two Creations - a True One, and a false one, which has parasitically taken over a portion of the True One.Spiritual reality and reality itselves are sort of like 2 holographic images overlaying each other,they are very similar to one another exept one is false and flawed and sick....When it appears as "one" it's seen kind of like one sees stereo images.It looks like one with depth but in fact it is two.

There is A war between the 2 creations - 2 natures - 2 wills - 2 principles.(this is why some people are fucked,even plato said you cannot teach virtue to people who have no desire for wisdom or emotion of love or shame)

There is a reality of temporary,parasitic essence of destructive Evil.

Thre is a Final Corrective Process(as in people die off,life endds, Earth changes,or universe destroyed with entropy(or others).(look at what is happening to this planet it is dying and so many beings on it desire death(an end to struggle) in so many ways..)

There will be some kind of liberation of the viable( beings who's nature is not from the parasitic reality /essence/pricipal,overlaying reality).

There will be some kind of transmutation of the non-viable consciousnesses in all classes of consciousness: mineral, vegetable, animal, human, spiritual, galactic ,universal ect..

Or did you read it somewhere? Just asking because it's very similar to what my Dad was explaining to me the other day, and I don't believe he read it anywhere.

But over time I found others who understood this. Gnostics ect.I sought answers my whole life as to why things are fucked up so bad.I couldn't pretend to be one with a sociopath because I have 1 thing they don't: a Consience. I feel really bad if I betray myself,as in my TRUE self. My consience means I don't just blithely obey rules imposed upon me from "outside"or from other peoples beliefs or whatever but I obey the rules that are within me,in my nature ,the ones written on my heart,my "gnosis"and I am responsible for how I apply these.If I fuck around with it my consience gives me hell until I make it right.

Anyways there are alot of so called gnostics out there who just can't deal with some of the stuff on that list I put up before so they are NOT real gnostics.. Like they fear death or death of this reality because they lack the foresight to see what is and for some in the parasitic reality the end of this reality means thier end,so they'll do anything to keep this mess going on a bit longer.A real gnostic is a DUALIST. Not some dualist pretending it will all be ok if they merge with the evil essence or tolerate it,or have faith or whatever. The reality is out of whack because it's sick from a evil essence.This essence manifests like cancer or a colonistic invader or a bully.

I myself am an alien consiousness kidnapped here in this body against my will. I look forward to death,so I can get out,go home. The "evil essence has made my life hell to get me to comprimise with my inner wisdom become sick like itself,and lie to myself about what I know and see and feel..but it failed.I'll die before I become a liar and betray myself to my true self.

Here are some links below.
Whatever you read there PLEASE decide what you think for yourself don't be fearful or bullied by the writings or other peoples opinions or stuff in your own head..Just read it through and think about what YOU think about it.Who gives a shit what anyone else thinks anyways. Your gnosis is yours alone.Cherish it.

AbraxasSekhmetMaatSophia!

Remember those essential tenets I listed in my other post.
That is what reality is we are stuck/trapped or deceived into.
These sites discuss this.

http://www.psyche.com/psyche/links/gnostic.html
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl.html
http://www.qblh.org/ramsey/Gnosticism.html
http://www.unknownnews.net/031126a-up.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/prophecy/23/

Cher

I'm sure that the universe doesn't care one way or the other.
Nothing says that this particular ramification of existence is supposed to be continue forever.
Nothing continues forever.
Nothing to say that this particular ramification of existence is all that special.

The only way that what humans are doing can be considered a mistake in the grand scheme of things would be if you thought that what the world was like before humans or before humans did their recent damage to the planet is the way things are supposed to be and the way things are supposed to be always.

Pure silliness if you ask me.

Of course what we are doing is a mistake if we want to survive, but that is a different question.

but being an antropomorph it is the best I can do, while I build more malls, drop a few bombs, and push towards 7 billion.

before I read your response ...
"Of course what we are doing is a mistake if we want to survive, but that is a different question."

So I know what you mean.

won't be enough. I would prefer a peaceful and graceful coexistence with the natural world.

You know, with all the freaking bombs we drop, I keep wondering if one day the worlds crust won't simply split apart. Strange thought, almost like a kids thought, simplistic, but you know...shock and awe..lots of bombs being dropped.. it is shocking.

with the space shuttle.

Don't know about the crust splitting apart, but I do know the Hopis worry about us punching holes in the sky with rockets and it's not just a metaphor since the vast amount of fuel being burned does actually impact the sky.

There is also the view of Hinduism (and some Buddhism also I believe) regarding this being the Kali Yuga age.
Check this for example
http://pages.zoom.co.uk/thuban/html/kaliyuga.html

The Vishnu Purana, one of the oldest sacred texts of India says
about the Kali Yuga, "The leaders who rule over the Earth will be
violent and seize the goods of their subjects... Those with
possessions will abandon agriculture and commerce and will live as
servants, that is, following various possessions. The leaders,
with the excuses of fiscal need, will rob and despoil their
subjects and take away private property. Moral values and the rule
of the law will lessen from day to day until the world will be
completely perverted and agnosticism will gain the day among men."



This end only appears to be the "end of the world," without any reservation or specification of any kind, to those who see nothing
beyond the limits of this particular cycle; a very excusable error
of perspective it is true, but one that has nonetheless some
regrettable consequences in the excessive and unjustified terrors
to which it gives rise in people who are not sufficiently detached
from terrestrial existence; and naturally they are the very people
who form this erroneous conception most easily, just because of
the narrowness of their point of view. ...the end now under
consideration is undeniably of considerably greater importance
than many other, for it is the end of a whole Manvantara, and so
of the temporal existence of what may rightly be called a
humanity, but this, it must be said once more, in no way implies
that it is the end of the terrestrial world itself, because,
through the "reinstatement" that takes place at the final instant,
this end will itself immediately become the beginning of another
Manvantara...if one does not stop short of the most profound order
of reality, it can be said in all truth the "end of a world" never
is and never can be anything but the end of an illusion.


---- as long as you are going into considering it in this moment, it's useful to look at how others have thought about this ...

it is right out of today's reality and our issues.

Thanks, very cool.

Definately other galaxies don't care.

creature that has the ability to conceptualize it's own death.

What a gift our intellect is.


I think my frustration is the misuse of such great potential.

Possibly elephants. They are known to have "funerals" for each other.

sadly the majority do suck.

think what we could do with our abilities.

this could be a paradise, but that, *sigh*, is utopian.

remember when the future looked like gardens, flying cars, and space needles with sky walk ways.

what are we giving our grand kids? a burned out pile of carbon?

As one of the other posters pointed out, there have been three major extinction events on earth. We are currently in the middle of the fourth - and it is an event that humans are fueling. None of the other extinction events were caused by any biological species - let alone attributable to a single species.

The issue isn't really whether we need to absolutely keep the status quo in terms of biodiversity - it's really about two things: should one species get to decide what the entire world's biological make-up will be, and how bad do we want to make things for ourselves.

As someone else pointed out - other species will overpopulate, but the key is that ecology turns around and gives them a big ass-whooping for it. If a species overpopulates, it outstrips its food source, and disease, famine, and warfare will take over. Studies done on rats and other mammals where the population and density were manipulated found that once the population got too high, all sorts of abherrant behaviors came out: infanticide, cannibalism, incest, psychotic behaviors, etc. There is no biological species that is immune from this.

Humans think they have the system beat - but the problem is we've only learned how to delay the effects of overpopulation - not overcome them. So yeah, global climate change is an issue - even if you don't care about other species going extinct -because it will make earth a horrible place for everyone to be, including humans. Human overpopulation in general will, and really already has, make life horrible for everyone but those rich enough to buy themselves more time. So how bad do we want to make things for ourselves? Do we really want to be the one and only species responsible for the massive extinction of almost everything else?

I personally don't advocate human extinction, but some nice voluntary population control is so much more preferable to the big ass kicking from ecological reality.

problems looming and the changes are very real, I have seen them over the years, as population grows our quality of life diminshes.

We are pretty hardy and adaptable. look at the street urchins in S. America that live on the streets and raise each other with out adults. These kids live in card board boxes.

So, we have collectively forgotten ecological and environmental issues as we turn our gaze at where they wish us to look- perpetual freaking war. In the meantime, population over growth will drive down the quality of human life on terra firma. We will sruvive, but at what cost?

Anyway this group that I heard tonight is thought provoking:


>Q: Are you really serious?

We're really vehement.

Many see humor in The Movement and think we can't be serious about voluntary human extinction, but in spite of the seriousness of both situation and movement, there's room for humor. In fact, without humor, Earth's condition gets unbearably depressing -- a little levity eases the gravity.

True, wildlife rapidly going extinct and 40,000 children dying each day are not laughing matters, but neither laughing nor bemoaning will change what's happening. We may as well have some fun as we work and play toward a better world.

Besides, returning Earth to its natural splendor and ending needless suffering of humanity are happy thoughts -- no sense moping around in gloom and doom.<

is part of what is making me very very lazy. because what is the point?
so instead of art, i sell crap on ebay to survive.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

Your analysis is spot on. Welcome to DU
:toast:

Keith’s Barbeque Central

http://www.bigskyastroclub.org/pale_blue_dot.htm

Carl Sagan always seems to say it best:

"We succeeded in taking that picture , and, if you look at it, you see a dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever lived, lived out their lives. The aggregate of all our joys and sufferings, thousands of confident religions, ideologies and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilizations, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every hopeful child, every mother and father, every inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every superstar, every supreme leader, every saint and sinner in the history of our species, lived there on a mote of dust, suspended in a sunbeam.

The earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that in glory and in triumph they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of the dot on scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner of the dot. How frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds. Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity -- in all this vastness -- there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves. It is up to us. It's been said that astronomy is a humbling, and I might add, a character-building experience. To my mind, there is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly and compassionately with one another and to preserve and cherish that pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known."

100,000 jeremiahs. A true prophet. Thanks for posting those beautiful words.

What a brilliant man. He had the most interesting way of taking something highly complicated and presenting it in a way that even a "science dummy" like myself could understand. I wish I could have taken one of his classes. Thanks for that link, it's wonderful. :thumbsup:

Even if we destroy the earth, that too is a part of nature's mechanism. All kinds of species become overpopulate and starve, fail to adapt, or wipe out other species. We happen to be more intelligent and more destructive, but in a billion years, the earth will never know that we were here.

I'm glad to be a part of humanity, while it is here, but nothing under the sun is permanent, including the sun itself.

Such is life.

We have known it since this reality began.
I look forward to it.
Not because of the suffering it will cause,that is just horrid.. butI look forward for the SEPERATION of the two kinds of realities it will bring.The end of the war of essences, the end of the state of duality in the multirealities.


Evil(including evil humans) emerged from a Celestial Error and created a Counterfeit Creation - the one we are in - in which beings have been trapped by counterfeit beings created by the Evil Mind or a sick thoughtform or false god who thinks it is the one and only god.

There is a War of Essences, to be resolved on this reality on which the majority of consciousnesses, including those in human bodies, are evil or sickened by evil.

The beings NOT of the evil or sociopathic reality who are still viable are to be evacuated,fixed or relocated in a more harmonious dimension suited to the kind of being they are by thier true nature.

Those of evil,or the parasitic reality and those beings who's nature is of the sociopathic reality will no longer viable,they will be transmuted or destroyed in a final Corrective process.
I observe when I look at the situation we are in,hoew it really is,and therefore I concluded..there are

Two Creations - a True One, and a false one, which has parasitically taken over a portion of the True One.Spiritual reality and reality itselves are sort of like 2 holographic images overlaying each other,they are very similar to one another exept one is false and flawed and sick....When it appears as "one" it's seen kind of like one sees stereo images.It looks like one with depth but in fact it is two.

There is A war between the 2 creations - 2 natures - 2 wills - 2 principles.(this is why some people are fucked,even plato said you cannot teach virtue to people who have no desire for wisdom or emotion of love or shame)

There is a reality of temporary,parasitic essence of destructive Evil.

Thre is a Final Corrective Process(as in people die off,life endds, Earth changes,or universe destroyed with entropy(or others).(look at what is happening to this planet it is dying and so many beings on it desire death(an end to struggle) in so many ways..)

There will be some kind of liberation of the viable( beings who's nature is not from the parasitic reality /essence/pricipal,overlaying reality).

There will be some kind of transmutation of the non-viable consciousnesses in all classes of consciousness: mineral, vegetable, animal, human, spiritual, galactic ,universal ect..

And I know quite a few others. :)

from VHEMT he was on tucker Carlsons show, and I had to laugh because he said what I had sort of secretly thought for a while and had never heard anyone say it out loud.

I mean it's an awful place to come to as a species, when it would seem the best thing for all is not to be here for too much longer.

Not because I want to stop being, nor because I don't want to see future generations, but because there is no wake up call for us, we keep doing the same thing over and over again, and d'oh, we get the same result each time.

War, greed, violence, and the man made extinction of so many other beautiful creatures.

I just thought we would be gone anyway in another 5,000 to 10,000 years. this can't be sustained.

can you tell us somethng about how you got interested in this movement, tell something about them?

but it was sometime last year, I think. I read what they had to say and it made sense to me. Basically, being a Volunteer just means you're making a conscious decision not to have any (more) children. (I already have one, but had decided not to have any more when I was pregnant with him, just as Bush I was starting the first Gulf war.) There's no real "joining" the group or anything, just a philosophy.

Do I think everyone should volunteer? Not necessarily, but I don't see how it would be a bad thing, either. After all, once we're gone, we won't even know it. The idea seems to terrify or infuriate some people though; they're very vested in the idea of "continuation."

Personally, I think the planet would be better off without us. Even as a kid, I had this concept in my head of being a virus or a cancer in the body of a living organism. I remember in kindergarten learning about the microscopic things that lived inside me and thinking they probably were just going about their business, not realizing that they were potentially injuring their little universe (me). Even benign organisms can endanger the life of the host if they multiply unchecked, and when they do, the body fights to shake them loose. I figure we've got that coming, just through natural selection. The Earth can't sustain us at our present rate of growth for long, and something like AIDS or avian influenza or the super bacteria we're creating with overuse of antibiotics is bound to restore balance if we don't do it ourselves.

Anyway, it makes sense to me, but I'm not trying to recruit anyone to the idea and I respect that not everyone shares my view.

The "natural equilibrium" spoken of above is accomplished via predators, yet unfortunately humans(or as I prefer, homonids) have systematically eliminated most of their natural predators. In India-you know, population over a billion-they reacted hysterically when a tiger killed one person; an endangered species, kills one person for food, & you'd think it was the last fertile person in India. Same with the shark attacks in Australia; huge over-reaction, as if homonids are the dying species. As for an ill reality, the 12th House IS Pisces & insanity is but one of its hallmarks. It is not by coincidence that the fish is the symbol of one brand of "mainstream religion". I believe that ALL current major religions-barring Hindus-are based on the 12th House, & what flourishes in it flourishes amongst its worshippers.

I mean, it does seem as though humans are the only living things on this planet incapable of living in harmony with our environment, but mother nature really could have wiped us out by now if it had become necessary. For all of our technological bravado, we really have nothing next to the power of nature. If (more likely when) we push the envelope too far, we'll definately know it.

By over populating and then selecting coastal living, in conjunction with the heating up of the ocean by 1 degree, we will see more terrible tragedy as the warm oceans spawn super storms and those of us on the coast will be in the path of Cat 4's and 5's.

For the rest of us, living in land, natural wild fires which would have burned out silently 500 years ago, now threaten ex-urbia. Same with floods and snow storms, we have become so ubiquitous that we have placed ourselves in the path of momma nature. So more bad news is coming.

As for infections,yes, altering viruses in chickens with anti-virals medications selects out for more virulent strains, we further select for virulence when we treat them when humanoids get infected. Then, we get on our little flying machines and spread this around the globe.
I can see much truth in a concern over a pandemic, it has happened with the great influenza epidemic and now with 6 billion people and our increased global mobility things can get nasty.

But, mostly, I am concerned about the destruction of wilderness, ecosystems, water tables, air quality, and the loss of entire species to hunting and development.

The sad part is that all of this could be under our control if we had the will. Instead, we are like giant babies, sitting in our sand box spoiling things around us.

Look at Iraq, the fertile area between the Tigris and the Euphrates is thought to be the actual biblical garden of eden. You know, forests, jungles, rich with flowers and fruits and animals. take a look now, sand, mud huts, industry in the valley, and under Saddam when things were working, pollution.

Mesopotamia once had trees, now the land is barren, and salinated and pretty much nothing grows there.
Dr. Jared Diamond wrote about this in his new book, and the basis of decline for all civilizations is deforestation. Barren Easter Island with the large carved heads- no trees now, the humans destroyed it in exactly one thousand years.

There are ways of living that are less damaging to the environment than other ways. Unfortunately as the world stands, such ways of living are less viable for most people. Even if I was able to live substainably along with several other people, very little would change in the realm of things. Whether I have a few children or none, very little changes in the realm of things. If many people stopped having children, things might change, but I think that it can be actually counter productive for the most enlightened (Green living wise) people to stop reproducing while the least enlightened people reproduce above replacement levels.
The Earth will repopulate if we become extinct by almost any event. There is life living at the extremes, both hot and cold adapted species, both wet and desert environments. If there are some temperate climates remaining, green vegetation will take back cities in less than hundreds of years. There have been many different climates on Earth. There have been mass extinctions. The Earth will survive. Life on Earth will survive, with or without us.

No consideration of the earth's other extant species, even the sentient ones. Just because we chose to be fools is that excuse to exterminate chimpanzees, elephants, tortoises ad infinitum?

female, whom they can track back to Africa gentically.

Also, DNA blood studies show that we are descendants from the little bushmen in Africa, they are the protoype. Those that went to the middle east adapted pigment and facial features for a warm dry climate, those who went north ended up with little pigment ( as in the blond norsemen), and the Mongolian/Asian folk developed little noses and short extermeties because of the dry cold.

My point being that we are all Africaners, truly one big family, and there is no such thing as race, if I understand it correctly.

The earth will survive, unless our damned bombs tilt the axis or break the shell or something. I keep worrying about the bombs.

ha ha

While I pretty much agree with their analysis I still have a smidgen of hope. We are grossly overpopulated and desperately need to reverse this trend by humane, noncoercive means or we don't deserve the appellation sapiens.

It's more than the mere reduction of numbers that is required, we must chuck much of the dangerous, destructive nonsense that we have adopted since we took up agriculture and reaffirm what we have been and are, hunter gathers. This blip on the ages that we call history is a tiny fraction of human existence on Earth. We would do well to rediscover what we are adapted to being. This could be both a means and an ends to solving our environmental dilemma.

For more coherent thoughts on what I'm feebly trying to get at look here:

http://mtsu32.mtsu.edu:11072/Shepard/#quotes

Looks as though I'm a pre-dated Volunteer myself having decided long ago to fore go breeding in order to leave a little room for other life.

Paul Shepherd talks about something that fascinates, and soothes me, namely, man's ability to bond with creatures and vice versa.

At least we still have that, and are not so far removed from nature.

Shepard talks about our need for animals, have never heard anyone elase mention it, although we see it everywhere, when it comes to domesticated animals.

BTW- I recently bonded with a flock of seagulls, started bringing them bread on the colder days, they were awesome. They flew and caught bread out of the air, and actually looked like they were having fun doing aeronautics because they could also grab the bread on the ground but a couple of them were stunt flyers! Now, they are gone inland, for warmth and hopefully food.


http://mtsu32.mtsu.edu:11072/Shepard/#quotes

Paul Shepard, The Tender Carnivore and the Sacred Game
There is a profound, inescapable need for animals that is in all people everywhere, an urgent requirement for which no substitute exists. It is no vague, romantic, or intangible yearning, no simple sop to our loneliness for Paradise. It is as hard and unavoidable as the compounds of our inner chemistry. It is universal but poorly recognized. It is the peculiar way that animals are used in the growth and development of the human person, in those most priceless qualities which we lump together as "mind" . . . Animals are among the first inhabitants of the mind's eye. They are basic to the development of speech and thought. Because of their part in the growth of consciousness, they are inseparable from a series of events in each human life, indispensable to our becoming human in the fullest sense.

I believe something changed in our diet, could be better quality or more protein, anyway, our brains grew, and voila, a hominid sits here typing to other hominids.

10,000 years ago we were probably eating fleas off one another as part of grooming and there was no writing yet, was there?

http://www.mnh.si.edu/anthro/humanorigins/ha/primate.html

Our understanding of the fossil record shows that distinctively human traits appeared neither recently nor all at once. Rather, they evolved piecemeal over a period of roughly 5 million years. By 4 million years ago, humans were habitually bipedal (walking on two legs) yet had brains roughly a third of the size of a modern humans (about the size of a modern ape's brain). By 2.5 million years ago the manufacture of stone tools was common. Large increases in brain size occurred even later. Complex behaviors such as adaptation to a wide range of environments and cultural diversification emerged only within the last 100,000 years.