For Those That Have Questioned My Calling Out Freeps For Their Lies...

I have been told that I should just ignore the smears. I have been told that you will never get anywhere with freeps. That is just plain WRONG. Believe it or not SOME freeps really do want to argue based on facts (I have seen it). When what they are repeating are lies that they have internalized uncritically, they BELIEVE they are right. Stepping up and debunking these lies IS THE THING TO DO. It was certainly news to these folks that they had been made liars of by one of their own.

In this thread on LU, I thoroughly debunked their favorite long time lie that has been spread about me, namely that I ever called the troops baby killers or advocated spitting on them. These lies were so well ingrained and accepted over there that they are regularly cited as the basis for my banning at the site.

He is over there right this minute trying to defend himself. Typical guilty person under questioning, he "doesn't remember" rewriting my post. He does not remember why he never provided a link to the message so everyone could see it was a lie. He just can't recall. Maybe he should retire and go spend more time with his family.

http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=60876&subForumID=197875&action=viewTopic&commentID=4966224&topicPage=

(If you do not want to dig through it in detail, the bulk of the real progress was made in the last 2 or 3 pages of replies.)

In the end, I received the APOLOGIES of several of the freeps that had attacked me most vocally on the charge. After several hours of back and forth and them trying to disprove my claims unsuccessfully, they admitted the were wrong, apologized and are now looking for the poster at their site who violated the rules by changing the content of my post and claiming it was my own words. That may well be a banning offense for the person in question.

Hopefully the mods there will reinstate my account as I have completely demonstrated that I did not write what I was allegedly banned for.

As someone else noted on a related thread, had Kerry stood up the baseless attacks of the swifties, they could have been debunked and Kerry would likely be president right now. Let this be a lesson, never allow wingers to smear when you have the facts on your side. Make your stand, and school them. Stop them in their fucking tracks. Otherwise, they will just keep it up.

Hopefully they will look at the other things this individual posted to determine if this was a pattern of lies or was it just this one attack on me.

Saludos to those of you freeps that have owned up to the lies you have been (I believe) unknowingly repeating. That deserves some respect.

On edit, added the update on the offender's weak ass defense. Hope his ass gets banned. He made his buddies look like idiots for the past 4 months with his lies.

It does take some work to convince a diehard hater to see the light. But, this is proof that is can be done of you are patient and medhotical. That and you just ignore all of the jevenile insults and stick to your argument. They throw that shit out to try and derail you into some other bullshit. Best to stay laser beam focused with these folks or they will twist, distract and spin until you give up.

I'll kick one for you next time I go brawling!
:toast:

I admire your tenacity.

However, 'tis the season for depression for yours truly, and I'm not tempting fate...........

But, if one comes your way. Do not back down. Bullies expect you to cower. Never give the satisfaction.

You can always feel free to PM me if you get to feeling down. I'm a good guy to talk to.
:pals:

you just spun one of those myths yourself!

Yes, indeed, Kerry did stand up! Perhaps you're forgetting about all of these people who HE asked that they report the truth--AND YET the media still told the swifties lies as if they were truth. I'm talking about the people ON his boat, the chicago editor, etc and they all came out in his defense--BUT the media played the swift boat lies as if truth for the rest of the campaign.

Then to say one person 'should have fought' is ridiculout

Lookt at these links--what do they all have in common?
http://www.tpmcafe.com/story/2005/6/2/131218/8271
http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/05/11/con05441.html
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Bush_administration_smear_campaigns
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat/allcomments?pid=34486
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=11&pager_start=20


HINT: Swiftboating!!! Everyone from "Deep Throat" to Richard Clark, To Clelland, To Dean, to Kerry, To Walmart, etc...


So please, stop repeating the old, tired myth. The media trashed him just as the Republican owners planned and frankly, given how they treat Dean, Hillary, Reid, and any other progressive, it's thoroughly disgusting to see the smear continue on progressive blogs. Look at all the dead bodies along the way and you can see that smearing and swiftboating is an EFFECTIVE political attack done by the Republicans and the Media BECAUSE the democratic leadership doesn't HAVE the same weapons at their disposal to dispute the lies. Oh..right...we NOW have air america radio...it's a start BUT when MOST Americans get their political news from tv it's completely ineffective!

Besides, when a political party has its candidates out there, then that party SHOULD be standing up for the person. The people who were 'suppose' to be on Kerry's team, like Hilary, Dean, etc were blatently ineffective in handling the smears against him. You don't put one person out there and say, "Run for President" instead it's like the Republicans do...EVERYONE gets aboard and fights for their guy tooth and nail. The Democrats were so ineffective in standing up for John Kerry and John Edwards and nobody FOUGHT for him as they would for themselves.

That's what happened to Clinton, Gore, Clelland, Dean, Kerry, Clinton...so who's next? When we have to keep 'debunking' our own progressives on the same stupid talking points, it's time to throw away the talking points and stop blaming the person. The Republicans and the Republican owned media has brainwashed everyone!

As Lakoff would say...you want it to stop, then "don't think like an elephant!"

Play ball in the media age, you better play harder ball than that. You can justify all you would like. We all watched his response. This is not a figment of the media imagination, nor my own. He came out day after day and said little more than "Bush should distance himself from the ads". He looked weak and defenseless. He never took the fight to the Swifties.

I frankly am a little sick of people blaming the media for all major democratic failures. This is the media age. They better find a way to deal. It is time that they got fighting hard and publicly. Debunk the lies and do so confidently. He lost to a shitload of liars that gutted him with untruth. Plain and simple. He should have taken them to court. He would have won and the whole world woukld know today that the swifites were liars. As it stands a hell of a lot of Americans still believe them.

Besides...isn't he STILL in the process of sueing them? Do you have any idea of how long it takes to sue someone in court? How do you even know he isn't going to court? How do you know his lawyers aren't working on it quietly behind the scenes? I once sued someone and it took three years. THREE years! (AND then we settled out of court).

Pa--leeeease!!!!


With regards to the media-you betcha I blame them. AND so should you! LOOK at how they smear everyone! Cindy Sheehan, Clelland, Clinton, etc and LOOK at their lack of coverage about the Iraq war. Look at how they allowed Bush to go unquestioned for 4 years. Look at how they like the rewards they got under FCC chairperson Powell.

AND regarding the whole world knowing the swifties were liars, well, 50% of the population believes it. And the other 50% who doesn't believe it still believes Sadam attacked us.

is/was working behind the scenes I would be rich. Say what you want there is no reason not to sue some one that is attacking you while you are running. You have every legal right to and he may have even have been able to get a court order to cease and desist. When you have proof of all this behind the scenes work, get back to me. It seems like this is always were Kerry conversations go. "How do you know he isn't working behind the scenes?" I'll admit I can't prove he isn't. But If he is, he is one slow and ineffective mofo behind those scenes.

The fact that they smear everyone, means that he should have seen it coming and been better prepared to fight it. Play ball in the media age or go down to defeat. Sorry, it is reality.

And no 50% of Americans do not still believe Saddam attacked us. That is just bullshit.

Like I said before, I watched as closely as anyone and that guy got gutted while whimpering at the end of the chain. It sucked. I was on the streets every day for more than a month actively campaigning for Kerry and all I heard for weeks and weeks was, "Why doesn't he fight these charges?". Sadly, I had no answer for the question.

Frankly, I can't cope with their sheer stupidity. I tried for years to do it on various message boards, and if they ever got a clue, it never showed. Now I just want to get away from the freaks.

And, LOL, I love the picture! :yourock:

We need (a lot of)someone(s) who will call them on their shit EVERY TIME. This whole stinking mess happened because my generation fell asleeep for a generation. Thank god there are people with the energy and wits to continue the debate!

That being said, f**k em, they're not worth it. I had to leave one or two sites where I had invested a lot of time, simply because "everything changed" after 9/11. Yeah,we changed into Nazi Germany and I'm Auschwitz material. F*k those Nazis who want to pretend they're not Nazis. Stand back and look at the history from an anthropological perspective. They are Nazis with a capitol N. We're still fighting THAT war too! (along with the civil war.)

Liberalism is the real American ideology, and we're the real Americans, fighting to hold on to the dream, while they want to put people in camps and worship FoxNews at Wal-Mart.

I like it at DU, cuz I don't have to debate anybody, yet once in awhile you get the chance to kick some troll ass. Only with an army of helpers. Heh.

I have a question for you about something. Can you check your PM?

even around here, I almost want to say especially around here.

I think they deserve some credit for doing so, and we could all learn something from that

I have been impressed a few times in the past weeks where there was some real honesty shown over there. It is rare to see anyone change an opinion. We should all be more open. Might well help.

Please stop this.