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12/4 ** URGENT**FOUR DAYS to APPEAL to GOVERNOR SCHWARZENEGGER!!!

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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 11:54 AM
Original message
12/4 ** URGENT**FOUR DAYS to APPEAL to GOVERNOR SCHWARZENEGGER!!!
Edited on Sun Dec-04-05 12:28 PM by nofurylike
STAN TOOKIE WILLIAMS' CLEMENCY WOULD BE LIFE
W/O PAROLE, NOT FREEDOM!!!



UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS
FOR THE NINTH CIRCUIT

http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/ca9/newopinions.nsf/9B878DF6D6261E8F88256F9C00008543/$file/9999018o.pdf?openelement

RAWLINSON, Circuit Judge, with whom PREGERSON,
REINHARDT, THOMAS, WARDLAW, W. FLETCHER,
FISHER, PAEZ, and BERZON, Circuit Judges join, dissenting
from denial of rehearing en banc:
In this case, a prosecutor, publicly castigated by the Supreme Court of California for his pattern of racially motivated peremptory jury challenges, removed all blacks from Williams’ jury. In declining to take this case en banc, our court bestows an implicit imprimatur upon the trial court’s denial of a constitutionally mandated jury selection process.
In my view, the panel opinion contains two errors: (1) failure
to issue a certificate of appealability (COA) to Williams despite his satisfaction of the standard for the grant of a COA, and (2) misapplication of the standard of proof to establish a prima facie case of Batson error. By increasing the burden of proof necessary to make a Batson prima facie showing, the panel cleared the way for attorneys “who are of a mind to discriminate” by exercising their peremptory challenges to excise prospective African-American jurors from the jury box. Batson v. Kentucky, 476 U.S. 79, 96 (1986).
I dissent from the denial of rehearing en banc not only because every defendant is entitled to a jury that is unbiased and untainted by racial discrimination in the jury-selection process, but also because the very legitimacy of our system of justice depends upon continued vigilance against such prac-tices.




Previous thread:

12/3 ** URGENT**10 Days to STOP the EXECUTION! Clemency=Life w/out Parole

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5509048

Please consider contributing to the debate in this related
thread:

DEBATE: Race plays a role in death penalty implementation. BAN the DP!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5514806

Please support the effort to save Stanley 'Tookie' Williams at
http://www.savetookie.org

Please sign the petition for clemency
http://www.petitiononline.com/stw4804/petition.html

Another petition
http://www.petitionthem.com/?sect=detail&pet=2240

To learn more about Tookie and his work on behalf of children
and families across the world, visit http://www.tookie.com

Please also call, email, and FAX Gov. Schwarzenegger:

Phone: 916-445-2841

Email: governor@governor.ca.gov

FAX: 916-445-4633


snail mail address:
Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger
State Capitol Building
Sacramento, CA 95814


THE STANLEY 'TOOKIE' WILLIAMS CASE

Stanley 'Tookie' Williams' execution is scheduled for Dec. 13, one minute after midnight.

Tookie's conviction was based entirely on circumstantial evidence.

Tookie's conviction was filled w/racist tactics & based on
questionable circumstantial evidence & ‘witness’ testimony.
This casts serious doubt on whether Stan ‘Tookie’ Williams was
given a fair trial. It also questions whether he is guilty
beyond a reasonable doubt..


    The prosecutor in the case was allowed to dismiss black jurors.

    This prosecutor made numerous racist remarks during the
    trial.

    Police files were deliberately left in a paid informant's jail
    cell to help prepare the informant w/details so that he could
    testify that Tookie 'confessed' to him.

    Fingerprints found at the scene were not his, bloody
    footprints found at the scene were not his, etc.



At the time he started it, at the age of seventeen, the Crips numbered around thirty members, when he was convicted, still less than a thousand.

Tookie's work over the past decade has saved tens of thousands of kids from gang life. He can do far more good living than his death could ever accomplish.

Desmond Tutu, Mario Cuomo, Alfre Woodard, Susan Sarandon, Tim Robbins, Danny Glover, Jesse Jackson, Bianca Jagger, Snoop Dogg (a fellow former Crip), Anjelica Huston, Tom Hayden, 100+ Nobel Laureates, peace & justice activists, the religious community, the anti-death penalty community, community activists, anti-gang activists and precious children and youths wanting to avoid/leave gang life, support Stanley Williams and urge the governor ro grant him clemency.


Laura Flanders (AAR) Nov. 26 interview w/Barbara Becnel,
Stan ‘Tookie’ Williams’ advocate:

http://www.airamericaplace.com/archive.php?mode=display ...

DOAR Supports Tookie Williams Clemency Hearing (VIDEO):
http://www.doar.com /


PLEASE contact Gov. Schwarzenegger for clemency!

Thank you!!!
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gorbal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
1. Thanks for this reminder, much needed
I signed both petitions and a letter is on the way to the governator.
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pretzel4gore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. i hate to say this, but
imagine having to rely on a troll like shwartshog, a goofyclass actor with buttocks (why does a *hole need buttocks?...aint that redundant?)
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. true. it is hard to have to rely on him. that's why please email, call
and fax him:

Gov. Schwarzenegger:

Phone: 916-445-2841

Email: governor@governor.ca.gov

FAX: 916-445-4633

AND
Please sign the petition for clemency
http://www.petitiononline.com/stw4804/petition.html

Another petition
http://www.petitionthem.com/?sect=detail&pet=2240

thank you!


peace!
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. thank you so much, gorbal! eom
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. The insanity of allowing the groper to be in charge

of anything that makes him a judge of human behavior is beyond me!
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. absolutely! isn't that just the most absurd...? thank you, goclark! eom
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Silverhair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #5
21. Previous Democratic governors have also refused clemency. NT
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. do you think goclark meant, because the gov is repug? i do believe that
was a reference to arnold being an unrepentant recidivist sexual abuser

judging.

goclark, please correct me if i'm wrong on that, speaking for you and all.


peace
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #21
52. Arnold's moral authority is something I just can not accept


And, in addition, after we as a nation have been able to see the horror of the war in Iraq, in this the 21st Century, we should refuse to be barbaric as a nation.
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #52
57. "... we should refuse to be barbaric as a nation."
Why is it that so many people can accept that (refusing to be barbaric as a nation) within very specific limits... abortion, war, torture, for instance... not looking beyond their personal concern?
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #57
60. it is puzzling me, too! i used to think everyone must be as overwhelmed
by it all as i am. but then, we, you and i and a few others, made this so very simple for them to step outside of their own personal realm of concern:
write one email

and it is too hard? too much to ask??

is it that "specialization" brain fixating they've been doing to us for the last four decades?

wonder...

thank you, Sapphire Blue!


peace and solidarity!

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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. From a speech attributed to Chief Sealth,
"Man did not weave the web of life, he is merely a strand in it. Whatever he does to the web, he does to himself."

It would do one's self good to step out of that personal realm of concern... to think about what one is doing to that web... in so many ways.
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. It would do one's self good to step out of that personal realm of concern.
absolutely!
that even as a selfish consideration, it is what is best for oneself.

but they aren't getting it, while they are progressive dems. where, the disconnect?

sigh...


peace and solidarity!
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #57
107. Fear that they will not be "in charge" of America


causes many people to want the Dealth Penalty to stay in force.

They are so afraid that Tookie and others will somehow get out of jail and get their children.


If they want to be afraid of something, be afraid of GWB, Tookie and Company ain't getting out of jail until the 12th of Never ~ever.

Let him stay there!

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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #52
58. that is an important point, goclark, here at DU. here, where people do
get that about the horror of that war, then don't seem to care about the babarity of executing people, even without full legal process.

it baffles me.

thank you!


peace and solidarity!
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #58
106. Peace to you and Peace for Our World


and PEACE begins with no Death Penalty~
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Paradise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
4. Kick to the top! n/t
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. thank you, Paradise! eom
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Paradise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. you're the one we should be thanking,
and i am...
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. mmmh! kind :)
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. Yes, many thanks to nofurylike!
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. :) thank you! and thank you so much for all you do, Sapphire Blue!! eom
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Paradise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #19
32. kick... n/t
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #32
39. thank you, Paradise! eom
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
11. Victims’ Families Call for End to Executions
Victims’ Families Call for End to Executions

Statement of Murder Victims’ Families for Human Rights and
The Journey of Hope….From Violence to Healing
on the 1000th Execution


As our country approaches the 1000th execution since 1977, we think about the losses represented by that number. We think of the loss of the life of the murder victim, and the loss to that victim’s family and community. We are people who have experienced that loss directly. The question, “How would you feel if someone in your family were murdered?” is not a hypothetical question for us; it is the reality we must live with every day. But we do not believe that the death penalty will bring us closure, healing, or justice. Another killing does not bring back our family member and it does not make us feel safer. We would like to live in a society that demonstrates its concern for victims by devoting resources to preventing violence and to addressing the real needs of victims in the aftermath of violence.

We think, too, about all the families who have been left behind in the aftermath of 1000 executions: the families of the person who was executed. After 1000 executions, how many parents, siblings, children, and other relatives are left isolated in their grief and lacking the support offered to others who suffer the loss of a family member? It is time to consider the social costs of the death penalty: how many people are affected by a single execution? In particular, how many children?

As families of murder victims and families of people who have been executed, we stand together and declare that it is time to abolish the death penalty.

Murder Victims’ Families for Human Rights and the Journey of Hope…From Violence to Healing are two organizations whose membership includes survivors of homicide victims who are opposed to the death penalty.

Contact information:

Renny Cushing, Executive Director
Murder Victims’ Families for Human Rights
617 491 9600 (0) 617 930-5196 (c)
rrcushing@earthlink.net
www.murdervictimsfamilies.org

Bill Pelke, President
Journey of Hope…From Violence to Healing
877-924-4483 (O) 305-775-5823 (C)
www.journeyofhope.org
bill@journeyofhope.org

http://www.1000executions.org/victims.html


Please contact Gov. Schwarzenegger in support of clemency (life w/o parole):

Phone: 916-445-2841

Email: governor@governor.ca.gov

FAX: 916-445-4633

snail mail address:
Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger
State Capitol Building
Sacramento, CA 95814

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hiaasenrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. In case there is any confusion about this. The victims' families
in the Tookie Williams robbery-spree/multiple-murder case are not part of the organization cited in the post above.

If some victims' families are qualified to speak against the DP (and they certainly are) then others should be afforded the same consideration in this debate.

Just wanted to clear that up in case anyone mistook your post and thought the victims' families in THIS case were against the death penalty for this multiple murderer.
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. "The death penalty is about revenge and hate,
... and revenge and hate is why my daughter and those 167 other people are dead today."

- Bud Welch, father of Julie Marie Welch,
victim in the Oklahoma City bombing

http://www.murdervictimsfamilies.org/
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. Why a human rights framework for death penalty abolition work?
Why a human rights framework for death penalty abolition work?

Article 3 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights states that every person has the right to life. Article 5 states that no person shall be subjected to cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment. The death penalty violates both these human rights.

By definition, human rights cannot be either granted or denied by a government. By framing the death penalty as a human rights issue rather than a criminal justice issue, we are saying that whatever form of government a nation has, whatever the assumptions or policies of its criminal justice system, it should not be allowed to take the lives of its own citizens. Thinking of the death penalty this way takes it out of the realm of specific criminal justice systems and places it in the realm of international human rights standards, which transcend national borders and are based in our common humanity across the globe.

MVFHR believes that the anti-death penalty movement in the United States can draw strength from this international human rights framework and from solidarity and partnership with those who are working against the death penalty in other countries ­­­– and not just in countries that no longer have the death penalty, but also in countries that still retain it. In viewing the issue this way, we are building upon the work of human rights, anti-death penalty, and victims’ activists in this country and around the world.

We believe that survivors of homicide victims have a recognized stake in the debate over how societies respond to murder and have the moral authority to call for a consistent human rights ethic as part of that response. Murder Victims’ Families for Human Rights is the answer to that call.

http://www.murdervictimsfamilies.org/
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #11
22. that is intensely moving to read, SB! the height of compassion!! i bow
to their magnificent example to us all!

thank you for posting that!


peace and solidarity!
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
12. STOP the DP (links) All DP cases are important!
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
14. Religious Leaders Urge Clemency For Stanley Tookie Williams
Religious Leaders Urge Clemency For Stanley Tookie Williams

(excerpt)

Ten interdenominational religious leaders, representing more than 27 million worshippers, have asked California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger to grant clemency for Stanley Tookie Williams, who is scheduled to be executed by intravenous injection December 13, 2005.

The Rev. Julius Hope, NAACP Director of Religious Affairs, said, "These leaders bring with them the prayers of their membership resulting in 27 million more voices crying in the wilderness, in the hope that Governor Schwarzenegger will bring about a positive and well deserved decision to show mercy and grant clemency to Mr. Williams."

In a letter to Schwarzenegger signed by the faith leaders, Hope said, "For those who believe that the State killing of Stanley Williams today would in anyway be fulfilling justice would mean the forever denying of forgiveness, or the recognition of human beings to grow, learn and change."

The religious leaders said they are "keenly aware of the adverse effects of crime in today's society." However, they said, "we also understand that the price cannot be paid or satisfied by the death of someone who has made contributions to reach out to those habitually forgotten individuals whom society does not pay attention or invest in until they are caught up in an ugly vicious cycle of survival."

Please read the rest (and see the list of signatories) @ http://www.naacp.org/news/2005/2005-12-02-2.html
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #14
24. "27 million more voices crying in the wilderness" !! outstanding article,
thank you so much for posting it, SB!


peace and solidarity!
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. "For those who believe that the State killing of Stanley Williams...
... today would in anyway be fulfilling justice would mean the forever denying of forgiveness, or the recognition of human beings to grow, learn and change."

http://www.naacp.org/news/2005/2005-12-02-2.html

Very compelling statement by the Rev. Julius Hope, NAACP Director of Religious Affairs.
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #25
51. and this: "that if you fall down you can get up..." eom
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hiaasenrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
16. Another useful link so people can
make up their minds with as much information as possible.

Here's a link to the LA County District Attorney's response to clemency for this defendant. Link includes trial details, as well as photos of items in evidence, information about this defendant's behavior while incarcerated, and it addresses some of the myths of the Save Tookie movement (example: the jury was all white - false).

http://www.lacountyda.org/pdf/swilliams.pdf
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hiaasenrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Procedural history and appellate review in this case:
For anyone concerned that this case received unfair treatment/review by the courts, here's a summary (from the link in the above post):

PROCEDURAL HISTORY AND APPELLATE REVIEW
To date, Stanley Williams’ case has received extensive legal scrutiny in both state and federal court. Since his conviction in 1981, Williams has pursued multiple appeals and habeas corpus petitions. In each and every instance, in both state and federal court, his conviction has been affirmed as appropriate and just.

• On April 18, 1980, the trial court granted Williams’ motion to substitute his hand-picked attorney, Joseph Ingber, as attorney of record in place of Gerald Lenoir.
• On January 21, 1981, the jury trial commenced and on March 13, 1981, the jury returned guilty verdicts of four counts of first degree murder and two counts of robbery. The jury also found the special circumstance allegations of robbery-murder and multiple murder to be true. Lastly, the jury found true the special allegations that defendant Williams personally used a shotgun and that a principal was armed with a firearm.
• On March 17, 1981, both parties having rested without presenting evidence at the penalty phase, argument was presented on behalf of the People and defendant Williams as to whether the penalty should be death or life imprisonment without possibility of parole. Following arguments and instructions of law by the Court on this issue, the jury, on March 18, 1981, returned a verdict of death as to each of the charged first-degree murders.
• On April 15, 1981, defendant Williams’ motions for a new trial and for modification of the verdict and findings imposing the death penalty were heard by the Court and denied. The trial court then sentenced Williams to death on counts 1, 2, 3 and 7.
• On April 11, 1988, on automatic appeal to the California Supreme Court, in the cases of People v. Stanley Williams, Crim. No. 21977, and In re Stanley Williams, Crim. No. 23806, consolidated under Case No. S004365, and published at (1988) 44 Cal.3d 1127, the imposition of the death penalty was affirmed and defendant Williams’ first habeas petition was denied following an evidentiary hearing.
• On January 18, 1989, the California Supreme Court denied defendant Williams’ second state habeas petition in Case No. S008526.
• On that same date, January 18, 1988, defendant Williams filed his first federal habeas petition in the United States District Court in Case No. CV89-00327SVW. The district court held that petition in abeyance while defendant Williams returned to the California Supreme Court with his unexhausted claims.
• On April 11, 1994, following another evidentiary hearing, the California Supreme Court denied defendant Williams’ third state habeas petition in Case No. S011868, published at (1994) 7 Cal.4th 572.
• On June 21, 1995, the California Supreme Court denied defendant Williams’ fourth state habeas petition in Case No. S039285.
• On December 21, 1988, defendant Williams returned to federal court and, following an evidentiary hearing, the United States District Court denied defendant Williams’ amended habeas petition in Case No. CV89-00327-SVW, and published its order at (1998) 41 F.Supp.2d 1043.
• On December 17, 1999, defendant Williams’ subsequent Rule 60(b) motion to reopen the judgment was denied, and the order was published at (1999) 1999 WL 1320903.
• On September 10, 2002, the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit denied defendant Williams’ direct appeal and Rule 6 (b) motion in Case Nos. 99-99018 and 00-99001, published at (2002)306 F.3d 665.
• On September 9, 2004, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals amended the opinion and denied defendant Williams’ petition for rehearing and suggestion for rehearing en banc, published at (2004) 384 F.3d 567.
• On February 2, 2005, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals denied defendant Williams’ subsequent petition for rehearing and suggestion for rehearing en banc, published at (2005) 396 F.3d 1059.
• Finally, on October 11, 2005, the United States Supreme Court denied defendant Williams’ petition for writ of certiorari in Case No. 04-10500. As this historical accounting proves, Williams has benefited from a detailed and exhaustive review of all of his legal claims and each court has affirmed the guilty verdicts and affirmed the death sentence. In doing so, our courts, both state and federal, have given appropriate and serious consideration to Williams, consideration which Williams so violently denied each of his victims.

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fortyfeetunder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #18
27. OK, I read the DA's report but I don't support the DP
So according to the DA, Tookie is guilty. But I still don't support the death penalty, not for Tookie, nor for anyone else.

I want Tookie in jail for life without parole so he can continue to serve as a permanent example to kids of what not to do.

That's all I have to say.

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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #27
38. thank you for posting, fortyfeetunder! please consider emailing and
calling the governor to express your opposition to the death penalty.

Gov. Schwarzenegger:

Phone: 916-445-2841

Email: governor@governor.ca.gov

FAX: 916-445-4633

thank you!


peace and solidarity!
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fortyfeetunder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #38
45. Writing a letter now!
I am not e-mailing, I got a 37 center on an envelope addressed to the governor.
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #45
49. that's great, fortyfeetunder! that is the very best!! you've inspired me
to do the snail mail one!

with still enough days to make it to the gov, and the fax not able to get through either, it's even better!

thank you!


peace and solidarity!
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
23. I was wrong: a meditation on Tookie Williams
I was wrong: a meditation on Tookie Williams
By Jeffrey M. Gamso
Nov 21, 2005, 03:33

(excerpt)

Tookie's a special case and worthy of our attention - everyone's attention.

It's not that he shouldn't be killed. Of course he shouldn't. It's not that he's innocent (by any definition). It's not that he's been nominated for Nobel Prizes and praised by President Bush (who took it back when he learned Tookie was on death row). Those things make for a dramatic story line and lend some interest to his tale, but they don't make him so special that Ohioans and everyone else should be working for his clemency.

What sets Tookie apart is that there's actually a chance that he'll get clemency without any serious debate aover whether he was guilty. Tookie Williams just might get clemency simply because he's a better guy now than he was when he went to prison. We're not talking error correction here - the governor being asked to do a job the courts should have done but didn't. We're talking simple mercy.

If you study the history of the death penalty, you'll see that clemency has historically been an act of grace. But that conception of clemency died with the apparently widespread populatiry of state killing. Governors no longer show mercy - it's a sign of weakness or something and means they won't be reelected (or so goes the gubernatorial campaign wisdom). About the only way to get clemency today (and it's mighty rare) is to convince the media and the public (and then the governor) that there was a horrible mistake at trial and that if you're not spared you'll be the dead innocent guy we've all been looking for.

And then there's Tookie. He might just, single-handedly, demonstrate that governor can do the right thing, can grant clemency not to fix a mistake but to save a life, and that the governor can do it without seeming like a wimp and without losing votes. Hell, Arnold 's ratings are so low that doing the right thing might even gain him some votes. And wouldn't that be something.

Mea culpa. I was Wrong. SAVE TOOKIE!

Jeffrey M. Gamso
Legal Director
ACLU of Ohio
4506 Chester Avenue
Cleveland, Ohio 44103e
email: jmgamso@buckeye-express.com

http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_20046.shtml


"an act of grace"

"We're talking simple mercy."

"... simple mercy."

Is society capable of this? Is Gov. Schwarzenegger capable of this?

I wish you all mercy.
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
28. some repugs threatening the gov if he grants clemency:
this is NOT a surprise, just something to take into consideration when deciding IF to write the governor, and WHAT to write him.

Schwarzenegger clemency review has political risks
December 5, 2005

http://asia.news.yahoo.com/051204/3/2bu2c.html

SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger's clemency review this week to determine whether to execute Crips gang co-founder Stanley Tookie Williams could influence the governor's ability to rebound from political setbacks.

-snip-

There are already a number of people that have already said that they are not going to vote for him, work for him," said Mike Spence, president of the California Republican Assembly. "If he granted clemency, based on the evidence that has been presented, it would be a disaster."

-snip-

(but republican state Sen. Tom) McClintock told Reuters he does not intend to run (against Schwarzenegger) and said politics should not be considered in clemency reviews.

-snip-

"I think the political results (of granting clemency) will be positive because he, Schwarzenegger, will be seen as a hero in urban communities throughout the state of California and throughout the nation for helping the leaders of those communities to succeed ultimately with reducing youth gang violence," she (Barbara Becnel, editor of Stan's anti-gang books) said.

-snip-

***

peace!
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. SOP for the GOP
RW neo-confederates are pushing Schwarzenegger for vengeance... no such thing as mercy in their minds or hearts... they want the blood of the Crip co-founder, turned anti-gang advocate.
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #31
50. yes! and their blood-lust is even faster and furiouser now that he IS
saving Black youths from gang life and other desperation!!!

it is looking more true than i could bear to think it was!


peace and solidarity!
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
29. *** Related thread *** "DEBATE: Race plays a role in death penalty...
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
30. Nominated for the fifth time,
thanks for posting again; we simply MUST stop this travesty of justice from occurring!
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #30
44. thank you so very much, liberalhistorian!! yes, we MUST STOP this from
happening!!!!

your support is a big help. this is huge and most people here(!!) do not seem to care, or be willing to act. i'm thinking of making tomorrow's debate thread:

Debate: one email is too much to ask

sigh. sorry. there are many here who do get it, and are acting in every way possible. MANY.

feeling the days passing...


Peace and Solidarity!
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
33. Governor, let Tookie live
Governor, let Tookie live
By Charles L. Lindner, Charles L. Lindner, past president of the Los Angeles Criminal Bar Assn., has tried many capital cases, eight of which went to the penalty phase. He has one client on death row.

(excerpt)

In the penalty phase, the jury recommends a sentence. I have argued eight death-penalty phases, and there is nothing in law more weighty and terrifying than pleading for a man's life. My opening statement is always the same:

    "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, you have already determined by your guilt-phase verdict that my client will die in prison and be buried in an unmarked pauper's grave outside the prison's gates. The only remaining question is whether the defendant's death should occur at a time chosen by God, or a time chosen by you."


The evidence presented during the penalty phase is unique in law. The prosecution offers evidence of aggravating factors — why the jury should order the defendant put to death — and the defense puts forth evidence of mitigating factors — why the jury should decide in favor of life without parole. The question for the jury is often whether the defendant's life has any redeeming worth: Has this guy done anything that warrants keeping him alive?

<snip>

Ingber offered no mitigating evidence at Williams' penalty-phase trial. The California Supreme Court, U.S. District Judge Stephen V. Wilson and the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals determined that Ingber performed competently in choosing not to mount a penalty-phase defense, one suspects, because there was not much of one to present.

Schwarzenegger should seriously consider the mitigating evidence that has arisen since Williams was sentenced to death. If Ingber could have presented evidence that Williams would be nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize multiple times, that he would write anti-gang children's books and negotiate the end to a gang war, it is reasonable to believe that the jury might have found sufficient value in Williams' life to spare him death.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/sunday/editorials/la-op-deathpenalty4dec04,0,2214884.story?coll=la-home-sunday-opinion


Please contact Gov. Schwarzenegger in support of clemency (Life w/o parole)...

    Phone: 916-445-2841

    Email: governor@governor.ca.gov

    FAX: 916-445-4633

    snail mail address:
    Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger
    State Capitol Building
    Sacramento, CA 95814



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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
34. Rabbis ask Schwarzenegger to stay execution.
Rabbis ask Schwarzenegger to stay execution.

More than 90 California rabbis have signed a petition asking Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger to pardon death-row inmate Stanley “Tookie” Williams.

The former gang member and convicted murderer, who has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts to turn at-risk youths away from crime, is scheduled to be killed Dec. 13.

“While our tradition holds that murder is the worst offense,” states the petition, circulated by the Progressive Jewish Alliance, “the tradition also states that one who saves a life is considered as if he has saved an entire world.”

The petition had 93 signatures as of Sunday morning. It will be presented to Schwarzenegger’s Los Angeles office Monday

http://jta.org/page_view_breaking_story.asp?intid=277
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. “the tradition also states that one who saves a life is considered...
... as if he has saved an entire world.”

(from the petition circulated by the Progressive Jewish Alliance)

http://jta.org/page_view_breaking_story.asp?intid=277
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. !!!
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
37. A stupid waste
A stupid waste
It's foolish to execute a man who represents a real opportunity to break the cycle of gang violence.

By J.T. Allen, authored the screenplay for "Redemption," starring Jamie Foxx and Lynn Whitfield.

(excerpt)

I interviewed Stan to understand him as a character. In doing so, I came to see him as a man, which is why I count myself among those who believe that his prison conversion was real. I also believe, as Father Greg Boyle, director of Homeboy Industries, has said, that Stan is "not the person he was 27 years ago, and if he is granted clemency, his impact on kids, who plan their funerals and not their futures, will continue." This is more important than most people from privileged backgrounds seem to understand — more important than I understood going into the project.

L.A. County prosecutors, among others, say "Williams deserves to die for his crimes and for helping start a gang that has claimed thousands of lives over the years." Although there is more than one account of the Crips' genesis, Stan himself says he was a co-founder of the gang, and no one, least of all him, denies that this was a bad thing.

But he's on death row because a jury convicted him of four murders, period. Justice needs to be specific. If the prosecutors want him killed for starting the Crips, they need to bring charges, go to trial and get a conviction. The truth is, a new type of street gang was emerging in Los Angeles' poor neighborhoods in the early 1970s, and a Crips-like cancer, with its culture of retaliation and blood vengeance, would have spread with or without Stan Williams.

<snip>

But the state will also be killing a man who, guilty or innocent, is now doing far more good than harm. Critics say that all this do-gooding is just a way for Stan to save his skin. My experience with the guy says no, he really does want to spare mothers and brothers the agony faced by the Owenses and Yangs.

This prisoner offers California a rare resource with which to interrupt the cycle that produces crop after crop of killer Crips. To squander that opportunity in an effort to eliminate one former Crip — who may be innocent of the murders for which he was convicted — would be plain stupid.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/sunday/commentary/la-op-redeem4dec04,0,1001830.story?coll=la-sunday-commentary

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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #37
43. outstanding article, Sapphire Blue! it speaks to the fact that gangs would
have spread like that, with or without Stan's influence.

so many seem to want to kill him for the spread of gangs.

thank you!


peace and solidarity!
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bear425 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
40. I have sent snail mail and email
but I can't get the fax to go through. It's either busy or it won't answer. Maybe that's a good sign that many are trying to reach Schwarzenegger.
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. thank you so very much for that, bear425! snail mail is the very best!! i
have heard over many days that the fax number is busy.
hoping hoping! it seems it must be a good sign!


peace and solidarity!
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
41. it is very likely that Laura Flanders will again speak of Stan's case on
her show tonight. she has been very supportive of clemency for him.

at 7pm:

http://www.airamericaradio.com/listen

we will be posting the link to last night's show, when it is available in the archives.

it is also possible that other aaradio shows are covering Tookie's case, too.


peace and solidarity!
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Freedomfried Donating Member (684 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
46. If he was going grant clemency, he would of done so already
Its time now for the execution, the riots, the curfew and finally
martial law for California.

Which, as everybody knows, is the "hotbed" of American insurgency.

Michael Moore lives there.
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #46
61. no, it seems many get off on making people wait till the very last second.
if they're barbaric enough to execute, they already have that sadism.

i admit i can not tell if the rest of what you wrote is irony. it must be, but it doesn't compute to me, after you saying that about "if he was...he would of..."

well, assuming i got you wrong, please consider writing him an email, or calling him:

Phone: 916-445-2841

Email: governor@governor.ca.gov

FAX: 916-445-4633



peace!
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
47. "Let 'Tookie' live for the good he's doing"
Let 'Tookie' live for the good he's doing
The Monitor's View
December 05, 2005

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1205/p08s02-comv.html

-snip-

The nation's support for the death penalty is waning. Over the past five years, juries handed out far fewer capital sentences and executions dropped. One reason is concern over possible execution of the innocent, reinforced by DNA technology. Another is that many states introduced life-without-parole as an alternative to execution. The Gallup Poll finds support for the death penalty drops from three-quarters to about half when life-without-parole is an option. And the Supreme Court recently ruled it unconstitutional to execute the mentally retarded and juveniles.

But what about character reform as cause for mercy? The Williams murders were gruesome, leaving behind deep emotional pain. That's why those opposing clemency believe he should pay with his life - and thus, they say, teach violent gang members a lesson.

Such justifications, as well as a desire for revenge, are understandable, but offbase. Capital punishment does not deter murder. States with the death penalty have a higher rate of murder than those without it. And even the brother of one of Williams's victims acknowledges that revenge is self-perpetuating. Additionally, a state's most basic duty to its citizens is to protect life, not take it.

-snip-

By reducing Williams's sentence to life-without-parole, Mr. Schwarzenegger can assure that the former gang leader still pays his debt to society, but also improves it - and himself. Such a decision can inch America toward yet another reason to end the death penalty. This practice, not a human being, deserves an execution.

***

PLEASE EMAIL, CALL and FAX Governor Schwarzenegger!!

Phone: 916-445-2841

Email: governor@governor.ca.gov

FAX: 916-445-4633

Please sign the petition for clemency
http://www.petitiononline.com/stw4804/petition.html

Another petition
http://www.petitionthem.com/?sect=detail&pet=2240

thank you!


peace!
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #47
59. kick... for this post!!
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Paradise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
48. Each and every DU voice can be heard! Together we can ROAR!
"God bless us, every one!"

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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #48
54. keep spreading that spirit around, and we will, Paradise! thank you! eom
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #48
55. ... w/mercy & compassion!
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
53. NOW!!! STOP WRONGFUL EXECUTION of WESLEY BAKER!! URGENT!!!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=106x25329

CAN HAPPEN AS SOON AS TOMORROW (monday)!!! EMAIL GOVERNOR EHRLICH NOW!! TONIGHT!! http://www.gov.state.md.us/mail /


Wesley Baker, black, is scheduled to be executed in Maryland during the week beginning 5 December 2005, for the 1991 murder of a white woman, Jane Frances Tyson.

Doubts have been raised about whether Wesley Baker was the actual gunman.

In denying Baker’s appeal in July 2000, the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals admitted that ''the evidence that Baker shot Tyson was not overwhelming''. The United Nations Safeguards Guaranteeing Protection of the Rights of Those Facing the Death Penalty state that ''capital punishment may only be imposed when the guilt of the person charged is based upon clear and convincing evidence leaving no room for an alternative explanation of the facts.''

PLEASE EMAIL GOVERNOR EHRLICH IMMEDIATELY:

http://www.gov.state.md.us/mail /

Despite being aware that it would aid in his defense, Mr Baker would not allow the traumatizing circumstances of his life to be applied to his defense, because he would not allow his mother to be subjected to the humiliation.

more info on this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


PLEASE EMAIL NOW!!!



peace
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Silverhair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #53
56. His palm print was on the murder gun, captured minutes after the crime.
There was other strong evidence too. This one is guilty too.
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #56
64. is it really not even worth your time to find out facts? these are
extremely crucial issues for this country. not worth your time?

sad for you.
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #64
66. Today he is a peacemaker; seems hard for some to grasp that concept...
Edited on Mon Dec-05-05 12:02 AM by Sapphire Blue
... what with being out for blood and all.


Hmmm, what is it that the Jesus said about 'peacemakers'?

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God." - Matthew 5: 9


And about judging?

"Judge not, and ye shall not be judged. Condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned. Forgive, and ye shall be forgiven." - Luke 6: 37


And, of course, there's...

So when they continued asking Him, He lifted Himself up and said unto them, "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." - John 8: 7


(NOTE: This post is in reference to Stan Tookie Williams, whose case many seem unwilling to really look into... after all, we all know he co-founded the Crips; and he's a THUG!!! Who needs more info than that? :sarcasm: Some might say similar things about Baker.)
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Silverhair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #66
68. I was addressing his guilt or innocence.
You are talking about something else. The other poster is trying to claim that he didn't do the crime. I pointed out some crucial evidence that shows that he did.

Are you capable of reading?
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #68
74. no. i said you didn't find out the facts. you are so sure
you know everything that you don't even bother to investigate.

we try to tell you that you too have an interest in stopping the inherently racist Death Penalty, in ALL cases, and you just keep repeating your preconceived notions about the individual cases.

do you agree the DP is inherently racist?

thank you.


peace
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hiaasenrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #74
75. Please post evidence (stats/numbers) to back up the
claim that the DP is inherently racist.

Thank you.


http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/cp.htm

In 2004, 59 persons in 12 States were executed -- 23 in Texas; 7 in Ohio; 6 in Oklahoma; 5 in Virginia; 4 each in North Carolina and South Carolina, 2 each in Alabama, Florida, Georgia, and Nevada; and 1 each in Arkansas and Maryland.

Of persons executed in 2004:
-- 36 were white
-- 19 were black
-- 3 were Hispanic (all white)
-- 1 Asian

Of persons under sentence of death in 2004:
-- 1,851 were white
-- 1,390 were black
-- 28 were American Indian
-- 32 were Asian
-- 14 were of unknown race.


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Silverhair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #74
82. You have claimed this guy is innocent. I am disputing that claim.
You are trying to change the subject.
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #66
69. *** Related thread *** DEBATE: Race plays a role in death penalty...
Edited on Sun Dec-04-05 11:51 PM by Sapphire Blue
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hiaasenrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #69
71. The numbers do not support this claim.
I posted the proof in that thread.
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #69
79. Countdown to a Legal Lynching
California Prepares to Execute Tookie Williams - Countdown to a Legal Lynching
October 12, 2005
By Phil Gasper

(excerpt)

Williams appeal reached the Supreme Court in May, where it has been sitting ever since. A decision was originally expected last week, but the court delayed, reportedly to allow its new Chief Justice an opportunity to weigh in on the case. Now it has spoken in no uncertain terms.

Welcome to the racist Roberts’ court.

<snip>

To get the charges to stick, the prosecutor in the case, Robert Martin, used blatant racism. The trial was moved from Los Angeles to Torrance, a predominantly white, highly conservative area. All the African-Americans in the jury pool were dismissed and Stan’s case was heard by an all-white jury.

In his closing argument, Martin compared Stan in the courtroom to a Bengal tiger in the zoo, and said that “in his environment” (i.e. South Central LA) he would behave like the tiger in its “habitat.”

Despite the fact that Martin was later censured twice by the California Supreme Court for his racist practices, which led to death sentences in two of the cases he prosecuted being overturned, and despite the fact that the ACLU, the NAACP, the Mexican American Legal Defense & Educational Fund and numerous other groups, filed an amicus brief on Stan’s behalf, the Ninth Circuit has twice rejected the claim that his constitutional rights were violated. Now the Supreme Court has upheld these decisions.

The rest of this important article is available @ http://traprockpeace.org/phil_gasper_blog/index.php/2005/11/01/california-prepares-to-execute-tookie-williams-countdown-to-a-legal-lynching

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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #66
76. "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." eom
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Silverhair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #76
81. My crimes do NOT include murder.
All of us that have lived long enough to become responsible have commited some crimes. After all, there are so many laws. I was once a poor driver and got some minor traffic tickets. When I was a student in graduate school I got a part/time job that paid me cash. I didn't list it on my IRS that year. Naughty me. So you are trying to say that because of those, and other very minor stuff, that I can't have a voice in this matter. You are wrong. The Constitution gives me a voice.

You are trying to make all crimes equal. By that standard, no one would be punished for any crime.
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hiaasenrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #81
83. This is how they argue.
They say you can't judge, but they judge you for judging, then claim they don't judge.

I'll freely admit to judging people based on their behavior. Everyone does it; only some are truthful enough to admit it.
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Silverhair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #83
84. And they strenously avoid discussing FACTS. NT
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hiaasenrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #84
85. Agreed. They are incapable of engaging in a debate in which
facts are the basis for the discussion.
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Silverhair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #85
88. I just checked the list of upcoming executions.
Edited on Mon Dec-05-05 12:57 AM by Silverhair
Each and every one that I googled has web sites dedicated to the claim that the convict is innocent.

ALL OF THEM !! LOL !! These people actually seem to believe that every convict on death row is innocent and a victim of the system.
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hiaasenrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #88
90. LOL. They're dupes of PR stunts, nothing more. n/t
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hiaasenrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 02:06 AM
Response to Reply #88
99. By the way...
as was brought to my attention by another member in another thread, soon we will be bombarded by the pro-murderer types to save this guy:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/palmbeach/sfl-pfcarlie02xdec02,0,754614.story?coll=sfla-news-palm

These people are really sick.
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #81
89. yes, our own crime is always lesser crime, isn't it? now, if you'd been
racially profiled when ticketted for those traffic incursions, then terrorized because the cop had a chance to do it...

and tax fraud is a felony. do you vote? what state?

no, for you they are just tiny little trifles.


degrees of sin, and YOU are the judge of the degree.
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Silverhair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #89
92. Yes, murder is a far worse crime.
BTW - We are talking about crimes - not sin. Discussions of sin should go in the Religion/Theology forum.

There is such a thing as separation of church and state in this country, so we judge on crimes, not sin.

And the LAW does indeed recognize different levels of crime.

Yes, I vote. My state should be obvious. You have made reference to it before in a personal attack.
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 02:01 AM
Response to Reply #92
98. there but for fortune go you or i
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Silverhair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #98
104. WRONG !!! My choices, not random chance made the difference.
I have CHOSEN not to commit murder. A rather easy choice that almost everybody makes, probably including you. Williams & Baker both CHOSE to murder. Fortune had nothing to do with it.
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hiaasenrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #56
65. Evidence, shmevidence!
The murderers are the real victims here!

:sarcasm:

These people are sick. I thought the PR stunt might end with the Tookie Williams case, but after being called out for their selective compassion, I guess we'll be seeing a lot of these pro-murderer posts.

Still haven't heard any of them express any thoughts about the victims or their families. Oh, well....
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-05 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. "Evidence, shmevidence!" exactly. it's not your forte, is it?
you've missed a lot of DP threads.

you shout about court doc. well, that's one right there in the OP. doesn't reach you in the least, does it?

racist judicial misconduct is nothing to you, yes?

i know. no need ot keep proving it. you're happy to be too callous to bother, so why try to force us to validate you?
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hiaasenrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #67
70. I have become a little tired of the
Edited on Mon Dec-05-05 12:18 AM by hiaasenrocks
propaganda and deliberate misinformation here.

You stated that the jury in this case was all white, and I showed you that is false.

I've posted the trial evidence and ALL of the appeals this defendant received (in which he was incapable of proving anything of substance) and you refuse to comment on it, while still claiming there were problems with the case.

You have been posting other unfounded claims about the death penalty and race, and I proved you wrong in that as well. (copied below)

Why should we believe any information you are providing? You aren't making a logical argument; you're making an emotional one, as evidenced in this latest post. You are participating in a PR stunt to go easy on a convicted four-time brutal murderer.
________________________________________________________
More information for you to ignore:

U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics report:

The "Crime Trends" section states: Since the death penalty was reinstated by the Supreme Court in 1976, white inmates have made up the majority of those under sentence of death. (Prisoners under sentence of death by race, Capital punishment, 1953-97)

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/ascii/gbjsw.txt
__________________________________________________

In 2004, 59 persons in 12 States were executed -- 23 in Texas; 7 in Ohio; 6 in Oklahoma; 5 in Virginia; 4 each in North Carolina and South Carolina, 2 each in Alabama, Florida, Georgia, and Nevada; and 1 each in Arkansas and Maryland.

Of persons executed in 2004:
-- 36 were white
-- 19 were black
-- 3 were Hispanic (all white)
-- 1 Asian

Of persons under sentence of death in 2004:
-- 1,851 were white
-- 1,390 were black
-- 28 were American Indian
-- 32 were Asian
-- 14 were of unknown race.


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Silverhair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #67
73. So instead of discussing the facts, you make a personal attack. NT
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #73
77. isn't that your specialty? turn it around so you never ever have to look.
please answer my question.

thank you
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Silverhair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #77
80. I have posted some facts of the case. You have ignored them.
The other poster has also posted facts. Instead of talking about the facts he posted, you attacked him.

I guess you didn't like the facts.

Here are a couple again:

His palm prints were on the murder gun. He was captured within minutes of the crime with the victim's blood on him. There is much other evidence too, but those two facts are good ones for a start.

I doubt that you will discuss those facts. You will likely cry, "Racism".
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #80
86. you are very good at "rubber glue." if you want to know the answer, then
hear TO hear, not just to rebut.

charging racism, is not crying racism. though any decent person would cry over this level of racism.

now, please care about this:
i do not have to prove he is innocent. i have to demonstrate - and have - that there is sufficient question to make it imperative that the execution not happen.

at the same time, i work to end the death penalty, as all civilized people realize must happen.

i hope you will consider those comments before you flash rebut.

thank you.
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Silverhair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #86
87. I predicted it !! You avoided the facts and cried, "Racism".
Is it possible for you to discuss these facts?

Let's start with three facts.

1. His palm prints were on the murder gun.

2. He was captured within minutes of the crime, with the victim's blood on him.

3. The gun was found in the vehicle that he was seen to run from just before he was captured.

I doubt that you will discuss those facts.
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DanCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
72. Have you contacted Arnies Bishop
Thats a no no in the church. Arnie should be excummunicated.
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #72
78. no. you're in cali, is that something you c/would do? write him?
did you see the articles about the church leaders who stood up for clemency? outstanding! somehwere up this thread, posted by Sapphire Blue.

:hi:

thank you!


peace and solidarity!

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DanCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #78
94. no actually i am from il the ca is part of my last name.
sorry for the confusion. But there is a local online paper called the sacremento bee. www.sacbee.com maybe you can write an editoral?
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #94
97. sorry assuming! great suggestion! will do! thank you! eom
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 01:10 AM
Response to Original message
91. DECEMBER 8: DAY OF ACTION TO PRESS FOR CLEMENCY!!! Ca.
Gov. Schwarzenegger will hold a private clemency hearing for Stan on December 8. The Bay Area Save Tookie Committee is urging all groups and supporters of Stan to make December 8th another day of action to push for clemency....

The people's clemency hearing will be held on the steps of the State Capitol Building in Sacramento at 12 Noon, where Tookie's supporters can have their voices heard and explain why he deserves to live.

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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 01:44 AM
Response to Original message
93. PLEASE EMAIL CALL FAX THE GOVERNOR!!!:
Phone: 916-445-2841

Email: governor@governor.ca.gov

FAX: 916-445-4633

thank you!


peace and solidarity!
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 01:47 AM
Response to Original message
95. PLEASE SNAIL MAIL THE GOVERNOR!!! :
snail mail address:
Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger
State Capitol Building
Sacramento, CA 95814


thank you!


peace and solidarity!
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 01:50 AM
Response to Original message
96. PLEASE SIGN THE PETITIONS FOR CLEMENCY!!! :
Please sign the petition for clemency
http://www.petitiononline.com/stw4804/petition.html

63,407 signatures so far

Another petition
http://www.petitionthem.com/?sect=detail&pet=2240

19,018 signatures so far

they hope to have 100,000

thank you!!


peace and solidarity!
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MrSlayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 02:17 AM
Response to Original message
100. I am appealing to Schwarzenegger to go through with the execution.
It would be the only good thing he has done in his term.

Tookie is a mass murderer and a con man that does not deserve clemency.

Read the transcripts of his crimes, trial and prison behavior.

http://www.lacountyda.org/pdf/swilliams.pdf



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Peter Frank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 02:31 AM
Response to Original message
101. K & R...
Edited on Mon Dec-05-05 02:42 AM by Peter Frank
We are the only major Western nation that ignores the 6th commandment -- "Thou shalt not kill."

Ironically, maybe Arnold is not yet jaded enough to follow the Eastern pack on this one. Let's inundate his office with snail mail, faxes, e-mail & phone calls, text messages...

We can help save an already redeemed life here. Who in their right mind doesn't want former gang bangers steering young people into mainstream society?

By the prosecution's logic, Jesus should have killed Paul instead of making him a disciple. Paul persecuted Christians before he saw the error of his ways; only then did he become a pillar of Christianity.

How conveniently do the Bible thumpers omit this aspect of God's forgiveness and grace -- only to recall it vividly when it's their own asses in the sling.

For all that's decent about real world lessons -- free Williams. Allow him to continue being a voice against violence that kids can relate to.

If it's decided that Williams is allowed to live, and he keeps just one kid from killing an innocent person; won't it have been the right decision?
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Paradise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
102. And then there were 3... n/t
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #102
103. yes. thank you so much, Paradise. eom
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Paradise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #103
108. is there a new thread? n/t
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #108
109. yes, it's linked below. DU was running odd this morning. was supposed
to be locked. will fix soon.

thank you Paradise!


peace and solidarity!
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
105. 12/5 ** URGENT**THREE DAYS to APPEAL to GOVERNOR SCHWARZENEGGER!!!
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-05-05 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
110. locking this thread
please look for new thread 12/5

proud patriot Moderator
Democratic Underground
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