Do you see the Corruption Issue as a GOP mess or as Bipartisan?

The mess currently brewing in Congress over the purchase of favors and influence is shining a light on some very bad stuff.

It warms our hearts to see Republicans get their comeuppance, and we all hope it has a carryover effect on the perceptions of the GOP and the next elections.

I hate to say it, though, but this should be much bigger than a few corrupt GOP lackeys of the special interests. And it transcends the differences between Republicans and Democrats.

IMO it ought to be a stake in the heart of the whole damn culture of corruption and influence buying in Washington, regardless of partisanship.

Republicans may be better at it, but we have to fact the facts that the whole political system of both parties has become so utterly corrupt that everything needs to be sandblasted. The crimes that are being exposed are just the most egregious examples of what goes on every day throughout the government and upper reaches of the business world.

While corruption is endemic to politics, it has become so ingrained as "business as usual" in recent decades that is is sucking the very life out of democracy.

For how long has it been assumed as conventional wisdom that you don't have any say or influence in Washington if you aren't rich and powerful? How many basic commonsense things have become "impossible" because of the systemic barriers that have been erected?

Why, for example, have we been unable to confront the fact that our healthcare system is a cancer that needs to be cured? Everybody knows it -- but it never gets done.

Or why is REAL campaign reform so impossible? Why do our politicians either have to be personally wealthy or else whore themselves out just to run a campaign? Why do we make it so a politician has to pay millions of dollars just to get exposure on the PUBLIC AIRWAVES?

That's one reason the Democratic Party became just as much the party of Wall St. as the Republicans.

That's why Americans have become so cynical. Why they don't think politics is really relevant to their lives. And it's why as a nation we have become so jaded to corruption that the known and blatant abuses of the Bush administration are not even considered out of the ordinary.

It's why we have come to accept a rigid class system in which politicians and other top-level bureaucrats move from government to business with such ease, once they reach the top rungs of the ladder.

Tom Delay and Randy and othr Republicans may be the poster boys for this. But unfortutately, many similar activities are done consistently throughout Congress and the rest of the government. And that's why such high walls have been erected and there is a wide mpat between ordinary people and the leaders who are supposed to be accountable to them.

paper, tv station, radio program/

Some really good thoughts are exchanged here but they never get to the folks who SHOULD read them.

Who blocks all the laws trying to control this? Who ignores the rules and limits? And most important of all, who benefits the most from it?

No one person or entity is to blame. Instead it's devolved into a completely "pay to play" system.

It's just assumed that if you are not wealthy and powerful, your interests will be ignored or -- worse yet -- trampled upon for the benefit of those who do have the immense buck required to pay for a ticket for admission.

Racketeering.

How DARE you insinuate that Democrats are part of that rats nest of GOP corruption. The GOP make Tamany Hall Democrats look like pikers.

Two seperate issues and your blurring the diffence between these two is absolutely to be condemned. It's counter productive.

#1. Holding the criminals in the GOP accountable for their endemic corruption that is Organized Crime and goes so damned far it manages to break already very liberal Campaign and Finance Laws.

#2. Campaign Reform to further regulate too-liberal Campaign and Finance Laws.

I don't see it as two seperate issues ultimately.

The same systemn of ingrained corruption that people like Delay gleefully take advantage of also forces good people to go bad just to get into office and stay there.

Abramoff and his K Street project devoted themselves to blocking money from Democrats and scooping it up for the GOP.

Some people on here seem intensely disappointed that there AREN'T Democrats involved....

"For how long has it been assumed as conventional wisdom that you don't have any say or influence in Washington if you aren't rich and powerful?"
Since DC was established as the capitol in 1800...before that it was said about Philadelphia and New York.

"Why do we make it so a politician has to pay millions of dollars just to get exposure on the PUBLIC AIRWAVES?"
Because otherwise we'd have to spend hours listening to fuckwits like Lyndon LaRouche and the Libertarians every election time.

in the last 25 years, then you haven't been paying attention.

And if having to listen to fuckwits like Lyndon LaRouce is the price we have to pay for a more democratic media, then so be it.

involved. There should be stiff penalties for taking bribes, giving bribes and promoting legislation that allows wholesale theft of the People's Treasury for starters.

it is endemic to every state capital, every county courthouse, every city hall in the United States.

As to why, the answer is simply that -- as always in human history --ideas have consequences: greed elevated to virtuousness, profit redefined as ultimate proof of the Abrahamic god's blessing -- as a result (and particularly because of the underlying hypocrisy) the most obscenely corrupt society in human history.

And -- yes -- the Democrats are just as guilty as the Republicans: note for example the deliberate substandard construction of the levees in New Orleans -- more money (and bigger profits) in the pockets of the local contractors. Or that in the Democratic stronghold of the Northeast, all construction budgets are routinely marked up 50 percent for bribes.

The Republicans, however, are much more blatant in their class-war bigotry: profits to the corporate aristocracy, poverty to the people.

Bad values brings bad politics.

The system is corrupt, which disproportionately benefits Repukes on the national level. Repukes who are caught forever whine, "Both parties are corrupt", which has only a grain of truth. If Dems are corrupt, they're nowhere near as corrupt as the repukes because the GOPigs are shouders-deep in dirty corporate money.

with an apathetic citizen who has never voted. he said all he hears is corruption in the news from pol's, and that they say one thing then get in and do another. I told him, sadly, he's kinda right, but, is it me, or is the prevelance of Republican fraud showing up in the news, FAR higher than that of the Dem's? It seems for every 1 dem embarrassing themselves in financial, sexual perversion, or other crimes, there are 5 repubs?

Just jump right into the Republican trap and brandish them all so the Republicans don't get tarnished with what is obviously brewing up to be a Republican shitstorm.

Could you at least WAIT until a specific NAME of a Democrat and an actual CRIME has been charged before you do the Republicans' dirty work for them?

:argh:

behavior that is perfectly legal can be wrong.

Yes Republicans are worse, far worse. But the whole system has gotten to the point where it is inaccessible to average peopoe, and the people's will has been replaced by what's good for the corporations with the most money.

How else can you explain that despite the widespread desire for serious healthcare reform it never gets done. Never even really gets attempted.

Are you kidding me? How old are you? You don't remember Hillary care? You don't know how many kids and families have been helped with SCHIP? What have you done to help pass the legislation to cover every child in the country?

Go ahead, lump the Democrats in with the Republicans. But don't come back here crying when the Republicans are still in control in 2006 and things slide even further down the toilet.

Yes, there will always be the Republicans standing in the way and trying to block any liberal/progressive reform. That's the nature of Republicans.

But if Washington wasn't such a corrupt mess, there would be a strong Democratic party fighting for the real interests of the people in a clear unambiguous way....And, most likely a strong Democratic Party, because positions like fundamental healthcare reform is WHAT THE MAJORITY OF THE POPULATION WANTS.

But because the special interests have rigged the system so much, the Democrats are beholden to Big Money and what we get is a tame contest between nasty Corporate Republicans and slightly nicer Corporate Democrats.

Despite the widespread public desire for basic healthcare reform in the early 1990's, for example, Hillarycare was just a bigger version of the same crap that the GOP rammed through as Medicare "reform" a couple of years ago. A convoluted mess that was so careful to placate corporate interests that the whole point got lost.

And it was Dems who helped deliver the death blow.

And for the rest of the 1990's, almost nothing was done to really address the problem. And still isn't.

That's just one example of how money has skewed the whole system.

(and don't say McCain -- he's no Russ Feingold)

They also don't have a Bernie Sanders or a Sherrod Brown or a Paul Hackett or a Christine Cegelis or a Barack Obama, or any of the other great, clean, unimpeachable dems we have.

But they are forced to qoek within a crappy system.

are corrupt. But we are talking about a systematic problem in the Republican Syndicate.

When your key Congressional leadership are being indicted for insider trading, bribery, and legislation-for-the-highest-bidder and you have criminals like Bush-Cheney running the Executive, I think one can conclude that intergrity is a negative characteristic to be a Republican today. Those that aren't part of the problem are too afraid of their leaders to do anything but rubberstamp and cover-up.

but the same character defects that make one choose to be a repuke in the first place, also make it more likely that one will be corrupt, especially in a major way.

Thank you for mentioning that! As Janeane Garofalo said to Jon Stewart on The Daily Show (to paraphrase): "In this election, voting for Bush should be considered a character flaw."

to be a Dem.
To these people, joining a party, being a 'representative', is a career-choice - not a political choice. From their perspective there may be strategical reasons to join either one party or the other.

Many corporate entities not only donate to Republicans but also to Democrats. They play both sides of the political aisle.

I mean, nobody could deny, for instance, Joe Biden's vote for that ATROCIOUS bankruptcy "reform" bill or the votes of all Democrats who voted for that piece of shit bill. That was a blatent attack on the working folks of America.

What is needed is an election system run on taxpayer money with a ban on all outside money. Tight regulations need to be put into place governing campaign ads on the radio, television, newspapers, and perhaps even the internet. They must apply equally to everyone running for office.

They advised all the lobbyists in 1995 that if they did not donate to Tom Delay and the Republicans, they may as well not show up...

Most people think both sides are corrupt. The repugs are way more corrupt that the Dems, but there are still a lot of Dems that are corrupt.

Three things that should never mix with each other: money, politics, religion. Right now money is completely embedded in both religion and politics. Most people can see this, and just tune it all out.

Disappointed, but not surprised. I thought he was supposed to be one of the good guys. Corruption affects Republicans, Democrats, and Independents, Conservatives, Liberals, and Moderates. Power corrupts and anyone can be bought if the price is right.

Do you have proof that he voted one way or another based on a fundraiser? Do you think every fundraiser guarantees votes? They don't you know.

Either way, it's a clear conflict of interest. The Mashpee tribe credits him with speeding up the decision process. Apparently they seem to think the fundraiser affected his decision. He gave money back to the Choctaw 4 years late after using Abramoff's skybox.

And now he's investigating Abramoff? I like Dorgan, I think he's a good guy, but another good Democrat should take his place in the investigation.

As ranking Democrat on the Senate Indian Affairs committee, it doesn't look good.

If people kept throwing money at me, I'd eventually take it. Everyone can be bought. EVERYONE!

edit:sp

But many dems are likely "on the take" as well. Most of these big money folks donate both ways, but the vast majority goes to Repukes.

There is a difference between individual greed and a system that is geared to corruption in its foundations.

Corporate sponsorships of candidates, events, lobbying, junkets, the whole ball of wax has gotten way out of hand.

It would be comforting if just getting the worst offenders like Delay would lower the drawbridge that has been erected between the public interest and the political establishment. It would be comforting to think that if we just boot the GOP out of power, suddenly government will become more responsive to the real interests and needs of the public.

But alas, it's bigger and more ingraioned than that. Even politicians themselves hate it. The good politicians find it impossible to pursue their goals in that minefield.

the republican party has become so greedy, so corrupt, so arrogant, so hypocritical... because they have become so nasty and so uncaring about america and americans, that is what they draw to themselves. i think it's obvious that an abramof would be more comfortable with the delays and frists, and cheneys, and roves and bushes - they are alike by nature.

that said, i do think there is a bipartisan element that needs to be addressed. it costs too much to run for any significant office in this country. there's a reason it's still rich white guys running this country - they are the ones that can afford to run, and the ones who are content to maintain the status quo for the most part.

we have some good guys in the senate. you do have to note that the "good guys" in the senate are all dems - kennedy, levin, byrd, etc (they don't always vote right but they seem to have some compassion and understanding for us regular people - even if they have no real clue what it means to be us). however, democrats like this are the ones that maintain the dem base. unfortunately, not all democrats in office are good guys. but we are often willing to overlook, because there are some voices that are raised for us.

it would be interesting, and i really should look this up! - to see what members of congress have ever voted against a pay raise for themselves, no matter what the plight or plethora the rest of us were facing? i think history would show that most of our congress-folk, be they dem or pub, are quite willing to put their interests first - and therein lies the problem! but therein also lies the "both parties are equally bad" dilemma. plain and simple obliviousness, petty greed, and selfishness are not the same, nor as bad, as what we see the republican party doing right now. they are stealing everything - not only money but our democracy and our hope as well.

great post Armstead!

fwiw - i am happy to see any corrupt politicians get what they deserve. knowing that it is mostly repubs who create the most, and by far the worse corruption is a double edged sword. i'm glad that they are far and away the bad guys - but not happy that they are running everything at the moment, and will do everything they can to continue to do so.

boils down to: bad guys with power = far greater evil than the somewhat bad + good guys with no power.

OMG!! am i a partisan?!!!11!!!???!1!

Thieves, the corrupt, are opportunistic. See opportunity to steal: move on it. RepubliCONs are currently the most reliable purchases.

There will always be creative thieves defying your analogy of a stake killing, forever, corruption. Add that we need thieves, since we compete with other countries. We need thieves/hackers, callous killers, spies, et. al. for future fights. And there will be future fights.

Under Dems, the thievery changes tack. The controllers aim at emotions: look at the poor being used, Oh my, so we must go to war.

Under Cons, the thievery controllers aim at authoritarianism: look at the lack of order, the lack of availability of resource, oh my, we must go to war.

The controllers, the vast RW conspiracy, the military industrial complex, the Congressional military industrial complex, are opportunistic. Whoever has current power, is set on a course to war, and profits go to the controllers.

It will take more than one stake to kill this problem. But, one stake is a start.

The Cold War was a sham. Further, what does buying interceptors that can cruise at supersonic speeds have to do with managing the Middle East and protecting us from terror? Those are dog fighters.

Star Wars, nuclear subs, and spy satellites are threads of a sick fungus that takes money from the public and puts it on the bottom line of Lockheed-Boeing-Raytheon. Mr. Murtha had "credibility" in his defiant speech last month because he bought the access to the Generals and Majors with the payroll deductions of his constituents.

according to Ted Kennedy.

I think he's correct.

And i think it's obvious that it has gotten worse during the past decades.

Then there's the DLC (corrupt....all of them).

I agree with RFK Jr who said repubs are 90% corrupt and dems are 60-70% corrupt.

Story this morning Harkins is now caught up in the Abramoff mess. Seems he wrote some bill on Indian gaming and took advantage of the Abramoff sky-box.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051204/ap_on_go_co/tribes_letters___dollars

I think it is part of a national culture of "I Want," and "My Turn" seasoned with greed.

Everyone wants what everyone "on top" has, believes that when they have the opportunity to grab some, it is their turn, and the secret belief that they are more deserving than somone else on thier level of below, allows them to justify the greed.

Or something like that....

:shrug: It is BiPartisan. Power makes them arrogant and they truly believe it is their due....

You are right, the system itself is corrupt. There is only one solution in my opinion. I hope others will soon see it this way too.

The solution to government corruption is DEMOCRACY! The people are constitutionally sovereign and can change things if they are willing. May God let all Americans see that.

Please everyone, vote for the National Initiative for Democracy. Then get everyone you know to vote for it.

The Democracy Foundation, sponsor of the National Initiative, is strapped for money to get the ball rolling because no one with money so far is willing to provide the seed money necessary. But former Senator Mike Gravel (who is the founder) says that if everyone who votes for the Initiative just donates one dollar, the ball would not be standing still.

Let's do it!

Both parties are certainly open to corruption, but right now, the Republicans have brought it to a hitherto unexpected dangerous and malevolent level.