Prediction: American civil war within ten years.

The U.S. is being rattled apart. Back and forth, back and forth. I don't see a "coming together" or "burying of the hatchet" anytime in the near future, if anything politicians are banking on the severe division within the country to get elected and corporations are getting rich off of it. It's not the extreme right or left that is being marginalized it's the moderates in the middle. Soon there will be no "middle" and the fight will be taken to the streets. Things are getting worse.

San Antones got a shot though at running things though.

We desperately need a compassionate Democratic leader who can speak to the people again in a way that doesn't insult those from the other party. It's possible - I hope something happens because the shit's gonna hit the fan otherwise...

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They will either learn to stop being ass holes, or they will learn to keep one eye over their shoulder.

have the civil war. At least I then get the sincere pleasure of occasionally getting to kick their asses up between their shoulder blades!
I sincerely want to do violence against them for the suffering they have caused. I want a civil war. Bring it on.

They will never stop being ass holes. They have proven that. Now it is time to KICK their ass holes for them.

Read the details about our last civil war an you may change your mind.

..yeah a Civil War is a great idea.

Tens of millions dead (not just in battle but from the severe disruption to how we live now, leading to famines & epidemics) and at least 50 years of spent putting the country back together are exactly the way to go!

> ...and at least 50 years of spent putting the country back together...

Let's skip that part this time. Afterward, let's just go our
separate ways. In fact, let's skip the whole war, agree to
disagree, and just let regions secede.

New England, independent at last!

Tesha

"I sincerely want to do violence against them for the suffering they have caused. I want a civil war. Bring it on."



Now I really hope those are just words of frustration and anger, and I understand that. Really I do. But reading that on face value, you are calling for MORE suffering? And you do realize that the violence you do against them will be turned against you, and against your children, and on...and on.... and on.

I have no children. I don't care. I AM frustratred and angry, and I have had enough. Obviously, these people will not leave. We can't get them out with the ballot box, because they control the ballot box. Seems to me the only way to get them out is to physically remove them. And if that means Civil War, then I say BRING. IT. ON. I have had all I can take of these Republican cocksuckers ruining my life and my ability to earn a livelihood. I'm pissed, and I want revenge.

I said what I said, and I stand by it.

By definition. I guess mere lefty-ness is not necessarily the key to enlightenment.

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We have accepted. Because we ain't fought damn hard enough or the motherfucker would already BE gone.

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violent struggle.

Yes, those Democratic politicians have really been fighters!

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Oh, what great fighters the supposed opposition party, our Democrats have been. with very few exceptions, and until very recently, every one of them has had a spine made of linguine!

I rest my case that THEY will instigate the Civil War.

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That's why Bush's agenda has been stalled out like a car with a twelve year old battery.

They're losing it and come 2008, the violence perpetrated by the Rightwing will rival what occurred on 9/11.

That's why they get what they want. They have a network of thinktanks and right-wing media that's dedicated to brainwashing incredibly susceptible and suggestible people with narrative, magical thinking and mythology.

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and killed a janitor. How's that?

And squandered that "togetherness" by pallying with the serpentine neocons, lying us into war, letting the religious fucking loony right sit at the table, lowering our discourse to the pig trough, possibly stealing an election, etc.

If he wants acceptance from the MIDDLE, than he can GOVERN FROM THE MIDDLE, instead of carrying out right-wing ivory tower elitist, Straussian masturbation fantasies, and letting the nutjob evangelicals run roughshod over the Constitution.

Of course we've tried to fight him. We're fighting fascism, cultural supremacism and the death of the Enlightenment. That's some serious shit.

on spending the political capital from 9-11 on getting their way and starting their wars. It was a set-up from the start.

The only good thing is that their propaganda techniques don't work so well in the age of the internet and international news channels.

This is a battle for freedom versus Fascism. They clearly are the fascists.

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:rofl:

I'm not sure where you're coming from, but you're not offering solutions, just attempting to have us accept an enemy that would have us in chains for not following their mindless dogmatic ways (if they could get away with it). Or do you just ignore the hate-speech from Faux "news", Ann Coulter, Pat Robertson, Rumsfeld, Rice, Bush, Cheney, Rush Limpballs, Pat Buchanan, Sean Hannity and all the REAL hate-speech radio guys I don't have time to mention. These people are FULL of vile hate and they are intent on destroying us - I'd rather die first as a true patriot fighting for freedom and good. I live by my true Christian values, not the flavor-of-the-month club "who do we justify destroying or killing now" Christians.

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Four times you simply typed "no" in the subject. Most of your responses are one-word subjects with little more in the message below. That's annoying and you are not making any arguments - just being argumentative. I'm going to ignore you. I don't see you as trying to be one of "us"

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We all want more than that - cow-towing to the techniques of the RW zealots hasn't worked either - propose a solution that is better than punching them in the face. There are more than enough people in the middle to sway an election - we don't need to sway the cave-dwellers on the far right any more than Dems need to sway us. The people in the middle are NOT as petulant as you are implying.

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:rofl: - you disrupted poorly :rofl:

Yes, we are better than the other side.

And Democrats need to fight MORE--not less.

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and want us to believe you're on OUR side? Ya gotta do better than that!

I don't buy it.

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I can't be more blunt about it than that. We're on the side of good AND we're working to change things.

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for the makings of a revolution. 10 years is a short time. I would modify the prediction to be that there will be civil and domestic collapse in 50 years or whenever the oil drys up and cars go away and agribusiness collapses, and the cooling industry in the southwest is incapable of making that region habitable. But this current political bickering, with votes stolen, crimes committed, has yet to energize a fraction of the unrest that could lead to anything other than sporadic acts, kind of the size and impact of the possee comitatus movement.

We still haven't recieved any appology from the right for murdering our leaders. They still think all the assasinations and student shootings were correct. They need to stop trying to destroy America because they may get more than they bargained for.

They recommend war and death penalty and violent pre-emptive invasion, and see assination as necessary for their retention of power. It's amazing how few liberal thinking intellectuals have advocated solving conflicts by force and violence. It's a kind of religious or ethical state of mind, and a golden rule club.
Then there are the converts from the other sided, after tradgedy or epiphany. In later life stages, many "warrior class" conversions blossom.

There are many who think they can't do without consuming and utilizing ALL of the conforts of the empire, but reducing fat and getting exercise and experiencing the weather w/o heating and air conditioning is so attainable for the pampered class. It's just a matter of will and sacrifice in that area!
When the Ahmish life style gets adopted by us, post petroleum era, and we learn to conserve the wind and solar power, and work around the extremes that nature presents, and give up the luxuries that become too decadent, we'll accept the conditions as normal.
It just seems like an abrupt transition from today's vantage point.
imo

southern calif. may be the exception with its climate. but Phoenix would not be what we see today without airconditioning, provided by cheap energy, and its consumption of water that cannot be assumed to be readily available forever. Its growth is driven not by assimilation into the desert, but rather by coping through use of energy. That cannot last as a strategy. Abrupt you write? Catastrophic for most is what I feel.

I recommend "The Long Emergency" as reading for those interested in life in a post petroleum world.

Lastly, I've lived on a farmette (15 acres) for 30 years. So when referring to self sufficiency or the "amish lifestyle" I think I know of what you speak. having had very large gardens, raised chickens, used alternative fuels, I feel pretty good on the one hand, and terrified on the other. There's so much that the pioneers and settlers did 170 years ago that i cannot do, (soap making for one), that I would suggest that it will take a "village" approach to get by. But we will have to deal with the millions that bring nothing to the equation, that are consumers only and not producers.

There is a publication, you may like, a catalog for farmer's...Great Plains 800-525-9716, just as an aside.
A local Family still farms their 10 acres here, 2nd generation or 3rd.
In the middle of the cities all around here. Now is Lettuce time!

Usually debeak, then clip their wings. I just do layer pullets, skip roosters and cookin' em. My hold up right now is trying to find a local source for non-medicated, organic feeds. Trying to fit into a niche market.

Honestly, I think I could pull off a lot of the self sufficiency stuff, but with some BIG caveats: Would have to significantly change water usage. If dependent on well water, it won't last forever. The aforementioned soap. Material for clothing, etc, but I'm not sure its going to be totally apocalyptic. More of a slide into simplicity, with a whole bunch of people not fitting in, (thats the really scary part).

can I protect my kin folk? The movie "The Postman" with Kevin Costner, dealt with the subject, so did "Madmax" in a way. Hiding from marauding hordes of ex-consumer addicts forced to forage and hunt won't work in urban areas. Mountain's of Canada and the Rockies and the High Sierras may become enclaves of survivalists?

"southern calif. may be the exception with its climate. but Phoenix would not be what we see today without airconditioning, provided by cheap energy, and its consumption of water that cannot be assumed to be readily available forever. Its growth is driven not by assimilation into the desert, but rather by coping through use of energy. That cannot last as a strategy. Abrupt you write? Catastrophic for most is what I feel."

I would also add that SoCal doesn't have a water supply to sustain its population on its own.

its going to happen sooner than that.

fighting americans I must admit the gene pool needs alot of chlorine...

that was supposed to be "do not" as in "I do not enjoy the thought of " sorry folks...

He has the ability to do this. If the nation wasn't so fractured he wouldn't be my first choice - no commentary on him, just a commentary on the nation - but General Clark could achieve the uniting you describe, and that would be a great thing for the nation. I love the United States of America.

He talks to the people directly - a bit soft spoken at times though...

and I've seen Wes get foreful when the occassion calls for it. plus, his tone was soft spoken when he privately said, face to face, to Milosovich: "If you don't back down, we're going to bomb you. And we're going to bomb you good."

...by the way, fellow Clarkie, I'm about to have a short story published about what a mistake it was not to have him as the nominee. leave me your email address and I'll forward it to you if you want. ...it's the dooziest doozy you'll ever read.

"We are living in a society!!" --George Costanza

They have deliberately planned for this very thing for years - knowing their agenda was about both division and dictatorship.

This thread was inspired by two different Bush backing pro-war fundies that I ran into today. Why do complete strangers feel as if the have to proselytize to the masses? These two people were so brainwashed it was unbelievable.

the local tavern yesterday, and one of the local regulars (real nice guy) said to the person next to him "GEE DUBYA is the greatest President - certainly in my lifetime".

I lost all respect for the guy right there. These people are absolutely incurious. You'd think a person would wonder why so many people hate * and try to do a little research. But why should he when Rush gives him the straight "dope" every day.

they didn't destroy the middle class in America. This has been going on for 30 years from BOTH sides. There is no such a thing as moderate...either you support a candidate, from either side, that supports corporate american or you don't.

> The Religious Right suck but they didn't destroy the middle class in America

No, they were just "willing idiots", doing the Devil's work for him.
Their stupidity facilitated the rise of the neocons.

Tesha

they are christo-fascists

don't call them Christo-fascists. They are just fascists. Nothing Christ-like about them!!

http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.org
http://www.JesusNoRepublican.com
http://www.ChristianAlliance.org

or, if ya just wanna laugh...

http://www.kelleys.org/Jesus

We have good times and we have bad times and things work out.

The glass is half full.

weren't there. One word said it all "antidisestablishmentarianism".

about.

You forget the subsequent establishment of food stamps, medicaid, public housing? You forget women and the bra less movement to gain equality? You forget the protests of MLK?

You better believe a civil war took place.

over. Black children and adults being murdered, churches bombed, MLK shot, George Wallace being shot. Yeah, just civil unrest.

The Spanish and Lebanese Civil Wars.

Most suffered and a great many died in those Civil Wars.

It wasn't civil unrest. Sorry.

Sometimes semantics are semantics, but really, there was no civil war in the sixties. A lot of stuff happened, but the country did not divide into two factions, and fight each other, and then negotiate terms of surrender. There are no re-enactments at Berkley of the battles between the Hip and the over thirty.

There are no re-enactments at Berkley of the battles between the Hip and the over thirty.

Goddamn hilarious.

But I was once shown around Columbia by someone who had been there in 1968, and he pointed out locations where things had happened... kind of like walking a battlefield with an old veteran.

something like 600,000? I don't believe we lost anywhere near that many citizens in the '60s. I agree -- civil unrest. However, I find it interesting that our previous "worst.president.ever" was James Buchanan who was the president immediately preceding the war between the states. Coincidence?

:hi:

We had tons of protests and cities burned. But hell, it took til 74 to get nixon out, nam drug on. Revolution? hardly.

"Antidisestablishmentarianism" means that you are opposed to the removal of a church's status as a state church, like the Church of England or the Church of Ireland (the Church of Ireland was in fact disestablished in the 19th century).

The word has no meaning connected to the 1960s. The word you might be looking for his "anti-establishment."

between the 60's and what we have now. The neocons have been hard at work making it possible for that radical change they so much believe in. I agree that the marginalization of the middle class will make civil strife here all the more likely. Now we are also in the maelstrom of growing disbelief in what government does and what it says. When you don't believe the government you supposedly elected, you are spitting into the wind.

century with the rise of unionism,but civil war is another thing entirely.

Civil strife,maybe,but civil war---I doubt it.

Outside Haight-Ashbury, but there are lots of sociologists writing about that very topic these days. These are the very issues (religious fundamentalism) that foment civil war and we have more than one very divisive issue separating us.

our throats. Especially, when the theocracy takes care of only the rich.

Erika, you have said several things that have been grossly incorrect and this is one more. First you misstate anti-establishment, then you rant about a civil war in the 60's and now you claim that a theocracy only takes care of the rich. I think you mean plutocracy. Theocracy is government by a religious body of institution.

I think an economic calamity brought about by the corporate cabal's borrow and spend mentality is more likely.

Whatever the case, Bu$h has screwed the Nation hard.

Her church had received an email about gathering mens socks for the increased homeless, some of them the working poor. The church said that was the biggest request from them. She had a couple dozen pairs of donated socks. We added three more pair.

The American people won't stand this abuse of the poor and the elimination of the middle class, while the rich ilk like Bush insist on giving more of our taxes to the wealthy. How obscenely wealthy does W want them to be at the cost of food stamps, medicaid, and help for tuition for the poor and middle class?

If it takes a revolution to slap the wealthy with cold water in the face, let it be.

My feelings exactly! If that's what it takes, then it can't come soon enough for me! Bring it on, I'd love to knock some reality into the rich motherfuckers who've never known what it is to suffer!

The ones who have caused our suffering must be made to suffer in return. And I'll be more than happy to be a part of it, when time comes to pull these rich bastards off their Mount Olympus! And I mean physically, too.

I'd love nothing more than to get my pound of flesh from some goddamn rich bastard CEO.

and show them the Chistmas Carol by Dickens. Then let them free.

They can, and probably have watched "A Christmas Carol." They don't GET IT, and they never will.

Nice fantasy, though.

benefits for five years?

they won't learn their lesson, because they will know that, in five years, they get ot go back to what they were. How many folks do YOU know who are working those dead-end jobs now, who will be able to crawl off that shit-heap in five years...or even fifty years?!!?

Too many of us will spend our entire lives on that particular shit heap. Five years ain't long enough for them bastards.

Let them know what hopelessness REALLY feels like!

and as a minimum wage worker, they can't afford treatment, so we will just watch them die and tell that compassion might limit our Caribbean cruises so...tough luck. The GOP have their priorities and taking care of the needy isn't one of them.

And you tell them..."hey, you shoulda thought about getting this disease before you decided to be poor..."

FUCK YOU, RUSH LIMBAUGH AND SEAN HANNITY, NO ONE FUCKING CHOOSES TO BE POOR!!

everyday I hear in chatrooms FTR stupidity ignorance and blind loyalty
to a born idiot. Hell, even some of my "former" friends still think
bush is a hero. I call them former because their blind loyalty caused
me to lose my temper so we don't communicate or say hello. Its we who need to take back this country and with Deibold I can't see a Democratic Landslide in 06'.

Oh, wait, that already happened.

I doubt there will be much of a right-wing movement left once we've lost all of our security net, had our taxes hiked and our deductions gutted (unless we're rich) and been attacked again. In fact, people will be scratching out all and any trace of any Bush/Cheney bumperstickers or signs of other support, for fear of reprisals. I wouldn't be surprised if Bush kills the right-wing in this country for decades.

So I'd put it at 25 years.

see the signs. This is worse than the 60's. This Revolution will be about different issues...it will be about "SURVIVAL."

But, some will be okay and never get involved...as usual. Their lifestyle will allow them to be "away" from it. But, it will be hard because only the select VERY WEALTHY/PROTECTED will escape what's coming. Your "Average Wealthy" will be hit hard from the backlash.

:shrug: Just what I see coming...I may be wrong..

Americans aren't severely divided, in spite of the efforts of FOX News and those nutty Falwell types, blabbering away about issues most people don't give a shit about.

The Corporate Media carefully use these talking points to keep the peasants focused on anxiety fueled consumption. They constantly manufacture "issues" we're all expected to have strong opinions about.

The only division in this country is between wealth and labor. And that wouldn't be a "civil" war - that's known as a revolution.

:shrug:

The right has been motivated by the false patriotism extolled by 9/11 and religious fervor. People who were apolitical before 2000 are now at each others throats.

The people who were 'apolitical' before 2000 are waking up and wondering why the fuck we're talking about abortion and "holiday" trees, instead of national health care and livable wages. Those topics tend to transcend the current left/right talking points.

I guess we just experience it differently.
:shrug:

The manufactured issues are what are supposed to drag our attention away from the REAL issues...the struggle between labor and wealth. Eyes on the prize, people....eyes on the prize!!

People are going hopelessly in debt with the laws favoring banks and credit card companies. There's no light at the end of the tunnel. There's a great time-bomb ticking and it won't be pretty when it goes off.

Making bank on the fear.

I know, I had one once. Had to. My first year in Louisville, Kentucky, and I had a Derby Party, and just had to do it up right, in traditional Louisville, Kentucky Derby style. And that meant mint juleps. I have never barfed so long and so violently before in my life!

Half the people in America dont give a shit about politics. Thats not gonna change.

But that doesn't mean we should be silent.

If no change by then, hello Canada. But I think we have many huge factors in our favor that we did not have before.

-AAR has been going strong now for almost 2 years. Left wing radio has NEVER EXISTED before. AAR is growing and in MANY MARKETS NOW. This is the antidote to Rush which has been HUGE in right wing power/growth.

-Howard Dean is revolutionizing fund raising and organizing in ALL 50 STATES. Let us give him a chance to see what he can do for us in a National Election 2006

-The Anti-war sentiment is now in our favor. We have the momentum on this issue. The Dems need to seize this opportunity

-The Katrina affect. All the spin cannot change those images from the Convention Center

-Abramoff investigation

-Fitzmas

I have a one-word retort to everything you cite in our favor.

One word for you: DIEBOLD!!!

A lot of states are passing laws requiring paper trails. I can see Diebold working in FL and Ohio, but in every state for every congress seat? Im just not sure.

Like I said, if no progress by 2008, then you are 100% right and I might be outta here.

Just for the ones they can't win legitimately.

Example..DeLay's in trouble down there in Texas. Santorum's in trouble here in Pennsylvania. Those are the kinds of elections they need to fix. And they probably can do it and get away with it, too, if we don't do something to stop them!

Everything good on our side that you cite goes to shit if we don't stop VAPOR BALLOTS. You do know that they use the same voting machines for Congressional races as they do for national Presidential races, don't you?

If they could rig Ohio and Florida...what makes you think they can't rig DeLay's district in Texas, or that they can't rig Pennsylvania for Santorum?

Fiat justitia, ruat coelum.

"Let justice be done, though the heavens fall."

....but I say we can have justice AND still keep the heavens from falling (we'll just make the ground ascend to meet the heavens!)

...Daniel Laruso is gonna fight!

a COLD civil war

And I pray it does not go hot. Only those who have not been there done that think it would be fun... that said, if it comes to that so be it. I will be on the front lines, just as I have been on them right now

Just nothing approaching a real war because these neocons are cowards and prefer to goad than be manly.

Oh well! I can wait. We all can. We're better than that. They are not.

radical right I would not be surprised to see some form of civil unrest and terrorism generated from the right wing god and guns crowd. Perhaps as some sort of twisted separatist movement.

If thats what you mean I do not see that happening. Half the people in this country don't even vote and a lot of people who do have friends on both sides. I see a depression possibly happening in that time frame as boomers retire and things with healthcare get worse etc, not to mention the Adjustable Rate Interest only loans and all of that coming to a head. I can see riots etc if peak oil hits, I absolutely could see that.

I do not however see Republicans and Democrats shooting each other. The closest I could see would be both sides uniting long enough to go after the rich and corporations. I also see the outside chance of a large terrorist attack which kick starts a draft and we go after some country(Iran with its euro oil market about to start?) in earnest.

Keep in mind something here. Most people aren't starving, they may die slowly due to lack of healthcare etc and fade away, the lives they lead may be horrible toil but we aren't to the point of say the French revolution were your about ready to eat tree bark. Cheap junk food and the TV will keep most Americans at bay at least for awhile.

See the video here....

http://www.2kgames.com/shatteredunion/

Bush and the neocons blew it. This administration has been such a fiasco that the majority of Americans now reject them--in spite of their media propagandists.

The pendulum will swing no farther in that direction.

Dude, it's not that bad.

The middle class can be pacified with oil, and it doesn't even have to be cheap oil. The middle class is essentially, at its core, a one issue group: oil. All else flows from that. There won't be revolution over abortion. Protests maybe, but not revolution. Cutting programs to seniors? Vocal protests, but a gray army? I don't think so. I don't doubt that there can be protests and actions of a sort that we haven't seen in decades. But its a long road to get to civil war in 10 years.

We have a higher standard of living then the rest of the world. Even the poor in this country have it better, in terms of creature comforts. And as long as we have cell phones, cable, internet, DVD's, video games, tons of books, we will be happy, distracted-whatever. But people won't be taking to the streets anytime soon.

I think people dislike this President, but few hate him. Hate takes up a lot of energy, and most people don't want to expend it on that jackass.

the poster, at the top, I'm sure is a little younger then most. But if we can recall, those of us over thirty, or around thirty, there was this same sort of talk in the 1980's. Especially if you were into the whole punk scene.

However, I think every generation, at some point, is convinced that they are living at the end of time. I was, the author of this thread is, people in the sixties thought the end was a heartbeat away.

Everyone just needs to relax, work for change, live decently, and not become consumed with hate or fear. Bush will get what's coming to him. Really. Karma's a bitch.

in this mini-thread. No civil war will happen in the predictable future; people are too comfortable for that.

The author describes the approaching crises of the collapse of the petroleum economy. that alone might cause civil unrest of enormous proportions, but may have little to do with "civil war" as a means of changing government, and more to do with no food, worthless property, no air conditioning, no water. That, to the author, would be more anarchycal than civil war. He predicts this is 30-40 years out. Grim. But very different than the proposition of the original poster. I do not sense DU participants being of the violent overthrow type.

From The Long Emergency by James Kunstler
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/_/id/7203633?rnd=1133750305783&has-player=true&version=6.0.12.1212


-snip-

Some regions of the country will do better than others in the Long Emergency. The Southwest will suffer in proportion to the degree that it prospered during the cheap-oil blowout of the late twentieth century. I predict that Sunbelt states like Arizona and Nevada will become significantly depopulated, since the region will be short of water as well as gasoline and natural gas. Imagine Phoenix without cheap air conditioning.

I'm not optimistic about the Southeast, either, for different reasons. I think it will be subject to substantial levels of violence as the grievances of the formerly middle class boil over and collide with the delusions of Pentecostal Christian extremism. The latent encoded behavior of Southern culture includes an outsized notion of individualism and the belief that firearms ought to be used in the defense of it. This is a poor recipe for civic cohesion.

The Mountain States and Great Plains will face an array of problems, from poor farming potential to water shortages to population loss. The Pacific Northwest, New England and the Upper Midwest have somewhat better prospects. I regard them as less likely to fall into lawlessness, anarchy or despotism and more likely to salvage the bits and pieces of our best social traditions and keep them in operation at some level.
-snip-

I think this is a sound scenario of where we are headed, excellent article, I agree
I'm glad I live in New England - less guns, less fundies and a long history of strong civil and social traditions.

:hi:

Katrina type incidents and people get desperate enough, they might well lash out at the government in a coup.

More and more people are seeing the truth despite the media trying to put a lid on it. I think there are two scenarios;
1)People see their democracy is on the ropes, or
2)Enough people get caught in a severe economic downturn.

Consider the Ninth and Tenth Amendments


Consider the set of hypotheticals:

1. A Roberts-Scalia-Thomas-Alito Supreme Court going back to the "Original Intent of the Framers" decides that the "establishment clause" of the First Amendment only prohibits:
a) Taxing the people to pay clergy salaries
b) Of (a) particular or enumerated denomination(s) only,
c) But not other denominations, and
d) Paying those clergy as civil servants.
That's the way it was in some colonies.


2. The same Roberts-Scalia-Thomas-Alito Supreme Court, in holdings and in gratuitous dicta, limits the reach of the XIVth Amendment and the "Commerce Clause", gratuitously citing the IXth and Xth Amendments.

What does this do to the balance of power between the states individually and the United States?

This is the ultimate "states rights" - for the Red States - they have their own control over those pesky civil rights and faith issues. But, would they be able to put their hands on wealth of the Blue States through Federal Taxation?

Ask as a set of hypotheticals.

When we retake control of the Congress and win the White House, the assholes on the Right will explode in violence.

You trotted it out about a month ago too, and it was silly then.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=2191657

I see a reply listed in "My Posts", but then when I click it there is no Reply, so I'm testing to see what's going on.

Edited to add: Okay, I figured out what's going on. Should have looked at the entire thread and then I would ahve known.

Or better yet, at any given time there are millions of mini-wars fermenting in people's brains these days. This is not so much the basis for an imminent war that will take place in the forseeable future, but rather a by-product of information and media overload made possible by the internet and 24/7 biased news (mostly but not exclusively from the right). These wars are mostly personal events and often transitory, until the next outrage occurs. The good news is that civil unrest and armed uprisings will not be taking place as a result of this phenomena, simply because the sources of outrage (media info) also provides a mechanism for keeping the anger contained. There is ample opportunity to vent one's discontent and validate one's beliefs through DU, for example, (and of course the misguided wing-nuts have Freeper sites that serve the same purpose), and this serves as a pressure valve. So the war in one's head may very well seem like a call to arms, but in actuality it's likely to remain a "cold" war.

Freepers, by their very nature, are violent psychopaths as evidenced by the OKC bombing.

Being capable of jotting a few words on a web site will never slake their bloodlust.

Otherwise we'd be seeing a heck of a lot more Timothy McVeigh type terrorist episodes. As it is, the vast majority of these pathetic idealogues do not act on their lizard brain impulses, and are quite content to flap their gums or rattle their keyboards.

The next American Civil War won't be one where we line up on two different sides clearly seperated by geography. It won't be one with defined armies and fronts.

It will be a guerilla war where insurgent rightwingers kill innocents in a similar fashion to that utilized by the Iraq insurgents or the Palestinian terrorists.

and get away with it...

You'll notice in these heated fantasies, the words "innocent bystanders" never occur.

I wont start a fight, but if it comes to it, I wont die on my knees.

We narrowly avoided an actual war here in the 30's. FDR, class traitor that he was, stitched it back together and, literally, saved capitalism. Now, I'm not sure this was an entirely good thing, but it did keep many thousands of people alive.
So here we are, 7 decades later, and the same ignorant fools that drove this country into that clusterphuk are forcing it on us again. I think it will be longer than 10 years, but I never thought they could do as much damage as they have in only four years so, who knows? :shrug:
The problem the progressives have is that they are judging the wingnuts as if they are reasonable people with a different viewpoint. This is wrong, they have crossed the Rubicon and burned their bridges. "With us or against us" is their philosophy and the sooner the progs 'get it' the better.

:woohoo:

that's the thanks we get for fighting the Cold War for them.

Most Americans aren't anywhere near being bad off enough to take to the streets in open revolt. Most Americans are still quite comfortable.
The few that have had serious losses (e.g. military families, Katrina victims) are split apart politically or margiinalized through extreme poverty.

Until average Americans can no longer afford TV, a car, and a roof over their heads, civil war is nothing but a weird nightmare to be discussed on political message boards.

for even one side in a war covering the whole Continental US? I think it's going to go down more like the USSR, some intractable mini-wars but no obvious "sides."

Fuck it, see ya! Bye!

But my gut instincts tell me that you're probably right. Sad to say though, it won't be fought on isolated battlefields, or in set battles. It will be much like the Civil War in Missouri was, in every community, involving everybody.

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I think edgar Cayce had something to say about it as well..:shrug:

*IF* civil war breaks out in the United States, which is possible (but unlikely), then it seems equally likely that some states might apply to join the European Union instead.

Any guesses?

Mark.

Dibs on first shot at O'Lieley



Keith’s Barbeque Central

If we dont see impeachment-- its over

especially over Liberals getting their way and dismantling Repuke wet dreams and policies ...which means political GRIDLOCK on a national level could lead to civil war nationwide...

When the cheap oil goes we will have a massive underclass, and a large portion of that underclass would have a few years earlier experienced "downward mobility."

The rich will remain rich, and the poor will not like it.

Great civil unrest rather than an outright civil war seems more likely to me.

Falwell, Dobson, Robertson...etc. Their supporters will take up suicide bombings when a liberal introduces a liberal agenda.

I am always always afraid of religious people...

Lots of great views expressed.

this is why legitimate verifiable elections are SOOOOOOOOOO important!

people are more apt to become aggressive if they feel some person or group is taking advantage of or stealing from them. Or destroying their country.

Great thread folks! :hi:
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